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Any future posts about nationality or other off topic posts will receive a 2-day ban minimum. (0900 KST 9 March 2013) |
Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On March 09 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 01:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I actually never said he was terrible, if people would read my posts, merely was defending the rights of others to have an opinion. If you want my actual opinion, his games showcase an extremely boring style which doesn't give Zerg players the ability to show their skillsets, and this was very much the case in the latter period of WoL.
He's young, and was part-time previously, so his strong period coincided with that era, but may not be linked at all. It may have been his going fulltime was what let him post results. Wait and see.
Ah Spiral so the good players can have more valid opinions. Ok. Idra's opinion of balance must > his then, because he's a noted pro player?
Anyway, done with this thread. Don't wish to derail. I got dragged into the patchzerg discussion against my better judgement. I am going to call BS on this and say you did call him bad in the post below(which I read) Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 23:18 Wombat_NI wrote:
Come on Stevez, I know you hate the term patchzerg but really? As we argued the other day, I accepted that 'patchzerg' is often mis-applied to players who are actually good.
Look at Scarlett, top notch creep spread, decent control and spreading, good map awareness, solid macro.
Seriously, where does Recco actually show that he's a good player in terms of actual definable 'strengths'? You might be correct, I am not sure, but you make zero effort to back up you claim that he is bad and just assume you can imply JonnyR is a “patchzerg” by demanding other people defend him. People are entitled to their opinions, but you need to back up an opinion with something if you are going to put it out there.
Some background, I know Steve IRL, and that was something of a continuation of a discussion we were having the other day in which he claimed that there was never an issue with Zerg, which I let's say, disagree with.
I don't think he's terrible, but equally Zerg in that stage was a joke and it became rather hard to tell who was 'actually' good at the game. My dislike of the 'patchzerg' era is that it became so difficult to differentiate between players, they all stylistically looked similar for the most part. I remember Stephano in his ZvP specialist days, he had an aura about him that made you think 'holy shit, this guy's good'. DRG and Leenock have had that aura, Nestea has his legacy. Ret back in the day was known for his 'drone or die' approach to SC2. Life is a monster, and a few others but outside of that.
Hope that cleared my thoughts up. If you want Plansix I'll PM you if I can find the games I have in mind.
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Meanwhile you could instantly tell foreign protoss apart?
Someone like bly got called a patchzerg and yet I havent seen a foreigner use so many bizarre builds as he does. But then hes just a gimmicky player who will get figured out if people actually paid attention to this.
So sad the community in this game. Players arent immune either. Look at cloud idra naniwa etc.
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On March 08 2013 22:12 Brawny wrote:
Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper.
Makes for a damn good read going through the pages though 
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On March 09 2013 02:17 MethodSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 22:12 Brawny wrote:
Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper. Makes for a damn good read going through the pages though
really? personal preference then, i find these discussions about patchzergs or not super f*ing tiring and boring. thankfully after a few sites, you know which usernames are involved in these so you can just skip over most of these posts 
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On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat.
Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D.
I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap.
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damn.. can't call him DJ Recco anymore
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap.
That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
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On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
It did go down a dark path of 200/200 armies and everyone having to play super safe. Lucky, HotS added the two things we all need, more abilites to be agressive and more abilites to scout said agression. Bringing back the risk of hatch first and 1 rax > cc will do great things for the game.
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On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it 
Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all.
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On March 09 2013 02:53 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc. Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all.
Ah the good old days of playing protoss vs terran on smaller maps. "Well, he walled in with no early gas and killed my probe. So it is either: Fast cc, 4 rax or he is boxing all his workers and coming for me. Time to do the safest build possible and pray."
I could deal with it not being like that.
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On March 09 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:53 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc. Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all. Ah the good old days of playing protoss vs terran on smaller maps. "Well, he walled in with no early gas and killed my probe. So it is either: Fast cc, 4 rax or he is boxing all his workers and coming for me. Time to do the safest build possible and pray." I could deal with it not being like that.
Indeed, it was a little too crazy trying to figure out what people were up to. But not like protoss didn't have insane aggressive options as well, cough cough 1 base void rays. Do you remember immortal busts from the beta, shivers. Or 1 food roaches......just lol.
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Good continuation to Dignitas. I used to like this team
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On March 09 2013 02:01 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
Meanwhile you could instantly tell foreign protoss apart?
Someone like bly got called a patchzerg and yet I havent seen a foreigner use so many bizarre builds as he does. But then hes just a gimmicky player who will get figured out if people actually paid attention to this.
So sad the community in this game. Players arent immune either. Look at cloud idra naniwa etc.
That's obviously a missuse of the patchzerg reference. It's like argueing you shouldn't call apples apples, because somebody dares to call apples oranges.
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His play wasn't anything special and it was pretty clear he benefited a lot from the Queen patch, at least he has some success during wol last year.
He has a shitty attitude and is incredibly bm, I don't like the kid as a result.
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On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him.
Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
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On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways.
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
16/17. He's probably done his GCSEs which are our equivalent of the American highschool diploma and is currently full time iirc
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On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
Ok, I didn’t know he wasn’t even a legal adult. I am all for kids competing for things, but they might not be mature enough to be on a team and competing that this level.
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I think mods need to start banning harder for people player bashing in threads like this. I have player bashed before, i will admit it, but there are some just straight up dumbass comments on the first page like "LOL what a patch zerg good riddance" etc. that should not be allowed at all. i think temp ban is not severe enough when people are coming into "player leaves x team" or "player joins x team" threads and just to call them patchzergs or what have you
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On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways.
He dropped out, if I recall correctly.
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EPT
