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Any future posts about nationality or other off topic posts will receive a 2-day ban minimum. (0900 KST 9 March 2013) |
Looks like ESPlanet got ahold of him first to learn a little bit more about the move:
British Zerg, Paul "JonnyREcco" Whyte, has just tweeted that he is no longer a part of Team Dignitas and is now looking for a new team. This move comes after the recent departure of recent departure of KiLLeR and Bischu. Whyte has been producing a lot of great results a good part of 2012 including a 3rd place finish at WCS UK Nationals and ESET UK Masters, a first place finish at i46 and an amazing run at TSL4 getting knocked out by KeeN in the Quarter-Finals by a dignified 3-4.
We quickly grabbed a chat with Paul to find out more information on his departure from the team. He stated that there were "quite a few things in the end" that made him leave, from contract issues to not receiving the help he was promised with setting up his stream. We have also learned that he was promised a contract with a small salary at ESWC which he "waited and waited for and never got" and when he asked about the contract again at the beginning of this year, everything was up in the air. Fast forward to tonight when Paul was getting his flights booked for i48. He was advised by Team Dignitas management that he would have to sign a contract that last for the whole of 2013 with no salary, and if he didn't sign, he would get no financial support at all. He naturally challenged this, in hopes of negotiating some terms in favour of himself, and upon being told "No" once again by the Team Dignitas management he declined to sign and was replied to with "lol ok" from Team Dignitas Managing Director Michael "ODEE" O'Dell.
Now that Whyte is free of any commitment with dignitas, he is looking for a team who are willing to support him by sending him to as much events as possible and just help him improve as much as he can. "I would probably be happy and be motivcated if some team wanted to put me in a team house" he said, "but really just a team where I could be happy in, get help from them, and do my best to bring attention to the team and their sponsors." He has not been in contact with any other teams about joining them, but he is hoping to do well at the next iSeries tournament in order to hopefully secure the team he's looking for.
With Whyte's departure, the current dignitas roster is rather small at the moment consisting of only 4 players, BlinG, DreAm, Ourk and Tefel. With a dwindling roster, a lot of fans of the Team Dignitas of old are wondering what's happening. We will have to wait and see what Team Dignitas is going to be doing with StarCraft 2."
Source: http://www.esplanet.net/article/870-jonnyrecco-leaves-dignitas/
Also, this update:
On March 08 2013 13:25 Master of DalK wrote:
ODEE tweeted a few hours after JR announced his leave, that dignitas would be adding to the SC2 Roster after HOTS release. No word yet from Team Dignitas about this matter directly.
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Cool
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That was quick. I think Newman was talking on the gdstudio about how they are not sure if they focus on sc2 in the future.
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I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol.
still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether 
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I'm sure EG would love to have another Brit in there. Well, maybe.
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NewmaN better not skip out on the SC section next gd show tt
Im really befuzzled as to whats going to happen to Dignitas moving forward..
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Dignitas dropping Zergs as soon as they can to get ready for HotS.
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On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol.
(
I could maybe see that now more-so now with the lack of results being posted, but, he was really taking on some top players (koreans included) for a minute there and IIRC they were pretty legit games not reflective of patch zerginess. I'm a top master zerg myself and I pride myself on my zerg talent scouting! I knew from the first of DRGs broadcast games that the future of Z had arrived, that no Z like him had been seen thus far in the game. And again with Stephano, before he won anything! I'd like to throw the weight of my zerg talent scouting behind Johnny as a valid zerg with some potential. Or such was the distinct impression that was made on me a while back :o
On March 08 2013 10:27 StarVe wrote:
Dignitas dropping Zergs as soon as they can to get ready for HotS.
LOL!
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Sad. I miss the old Dignitas with Naniwa, Select, Sjow. Those were the days...
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Hope they get naniwa back
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Irrelevant player leaves irrelevant team. Nothing to see here.
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On March 08 2013 10:40 Mansef wrote:
Irrelevant player leaves irrelevant team. Nothing to see here.
They used to be extremely relevant.
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On March 08 2013 10:44 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:40 Mansef wrote:
Irrelevant player leaves irrelevant team. Nothing to see here. They used to be extremely relevant.
Select in that Dignitas hoodie made my man parts wet.
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Ok you may like it or not but he was a helluva patchzerg, lets see if he can get any good now in hots
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I hope he finds a new team, he was very relevant for a little bit there, I hope he can recapture that success. Though, I have to say that with a lack of good results in the very recent bit of career, I hope he was not a one and done kind of player. I wonder why he left Dig though, it isn't like they aren't a top caliber team that has just had some bad luck recently.
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Good luck to him. Prolly gonna be hard to find anything, same as for Bishu.
SC2 Players don't seems to be satisfied with Dignitas overall, the turn over for the team is quite high. Might be the player fault, or the team priorities changing, who knows.
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he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then
Was it school related? His best results were in the summer of 2012 IIRC, and I'm guessing since he's so young he might have had to devote less time to competing and practicing due to school.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Weird. Would have thought one of the premiere UK teams would want to keep some of the British core.
Anyway, waiting for actual details and the likes.
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On March 08 2013 11:13 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then Was it school related? His best results were in the summer of 2012 IIRC, and I'm guessing since he's so young he might have had to devote less time to competing and practicing due to school.
You know, that could be the case. Good thinking!
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On March 08 2013 11:13 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then Was it school related? His best results were in the summer of 2012 IIRC, and I'm guessing since he's so young he might have had to devote less time to competing and practicing due to school.
I think he quit school then to go pro, but I'm not 100% sure.
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that guy was really bm @_@ happy for dignitas
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On March 08 2013 11:45 KawaiiRice wrote:
that guy was really bm @_@ happy for dignitas
That is probably why he vanished from the scene (:
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On March 08 2013 11:45 KawaiiRice wrote:
that guy was really bm @_@ happy for dignitas
Was he? Lul.
"Patchzerg" or not, if he is focusing on his studies instead of starcraft then more power to him. I still remember him moving his entire army to deal with 1 medivac in TSL.
Reddit is not showing that he will not really be missed, oh dear.
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On March 08 2013 11:45 KawaiiRice wrote:
that guy was really bm @_@ happy for dignitas
Yeah I've seen multiple streamers on TL play against him on ladder and nearly all of the games he was BM/balance whining at the end.
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That's too bad. What a humble guy. He will be missed
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Not surprised. Heard of him once in the past three years.
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Is there any context to why he left Dignitas are they going under or is it personal related to him??
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Hmm, can't wait to hear more about this dropping. GL to Dignitas && Jrec
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Goodness gracious. Good luck to Jrecco
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On March 08 2013 12:00 L0L wrote:
That's too bad. What a humble guy. He will be missed
LoL, what a humble guy, hella bm. However i agree with the other posters and that i thought he was a pretty big patch zerg. Only relevenant for a brief moment and then faded. I hope dignitas gets some really good players soon. I used to like their team a lot with select
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is the term 'patchzerg' warn worthy now?
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The unfilled promises puts me at ick when it comes to thinking about Dignitas. I didn't think Dignitas would be treat their players that way, would love to hear a response from Dignitas to see what the story is really about.
Hoping to see Jonnyrecco get into a good team, he had a good run at TSL.
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On March 08 2013 12:22 LeeDawg wrote:
is the term 'patchzerg' warn worthy now?
I guess so.
It's sad to see him go, I remember watching him tear up the TSL4, kept thinking we had another thorzain situation on our hands!
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Hope everything is okay. JonnyRecco is such an awesome guy and player!
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On March 08 2013 12:22 zephiK wrote:
The unfilled promises puts me at ick when it comes to thinking about Dignitas. I didn't think Dignitas would be treat their players that way, would love to hear a response from Dignitas to see what the story is really about.
Hoping to see Jonnyrecco get into a good team, he had a good run at TSL.
I don't think there's much to it. Being promised an eventual contract with salary isn't remotely the same as having a signed agreement saying you will be paid money.
He joined Dignitas and agreed to certain terms, Dignitas hoped he would turn into a better investment, and he didn't. He wanted a salary, Dignitas didn't think he was worth it, so he was not re-signed.
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Biggest news to me here is that his name isn't Jonny O.o
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On March 08 2013 12:34 Darthsanta13 wrote:
Biggest news to me here is that his name isn't Jonny O.o
Your real name is Darthsanta13? 
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Seems to be a bit much to ask for more than travel support with his below mediocre results lately. He also seemed to have problems adopting to hots so I am not very surprised by Dignitas not wanting to invest heavily in him. Sad for him tho.
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On March 08 2013 11:59 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 11:45 KawaiiRice wrote:
that guy was really bm @_@ happy for dignitas Yeah I've seen multiple streamers on TL play against him on ladder and nearly all of the games he was BM/balance whining at the end.
He also posted on TL a slew of balance whine in various threads. It always made me laugh, because he was the guy who would turtle behind 50 spine crawlers, make 40 infestors and 30 Broodlords. I remember a few of his games during EGMC, he was actually the only player that if I ever saw playing a game, I would turn off the stream because I knew how boring that game would be, and how painful it would be to watch.
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He had a good month of notoriety at the height of the queen PATCH, but hasn't posted anything since.
He was also a ZERG that had no flexibility in his play and the worst mechanics I've seen since the beta.
Most of his interviews he came off as a complete dick, and did he ever stream?
He was BM and the biggest balance whiner in most ladder games I've seen streamed by other players.
Now he is whining about not having a salary, while many many many more qualified players are only getting travel/lodging.
He was the British version of lastshadow.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
I don't want to throw the guy under the bus, and he does seem to want to improve so all power to him.
Best of luck to him, but imo there are more naturally talented RTS players out there in the UK that have got nowhere near a pro team, maybe Dignitas should look to tap that market a bit, unearth some gems.
As a British guy, I think my worst ever SC2 memory was seeing him pulling his entire army back to deal with one medivac drops over and over again, especially vs Major.
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On March 08 2013 12:41 soiii wrote:
Seems to be a bit much to ask for more than travel support with his below mediocre results lately. He also seemed to have problems adopting to hots so I am not very surprised by Dignitas not wanting to invest heavily in him. Sad for him tho.
I haven't followed him at all since TSL (I don't follow foreign events in general), so that would make sense if his shape is dropping.
But it really seems like Dignitas is not wanting to invest heavily in SC2 has just as much to do with it as anything.
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This just makes me even more worried about Dignitas with another player leaving
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On March 08 2013 12:59 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:41 soiii wrote:
Seems to be a bit much to ask for more than travel support with his below mediocre results lately. He also seemed to have problems adopting to hots so I am not very surprised by Dignitas not wanting to invest heavily in him. Sad for him tho. I haven't followed him at all since TSL (I don't follow foreign events in general), so that would make sense if his shape is dropping. But it really seems like Dignitas is not wanting to invest heavily in SC2 has just as much to do with it as anything.
So basically, if every a team doesn't keep every single player then it's clearly about the team dying or SC2 dying.
Wonderful logic.
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On March 08 2013 12:52 Cattlecruiser wrote:
He had a good month of notoriety at the height of the queen PATCH, but hasn't posted anything since.
He was also a ZERG that had no flexibility in his play and the worst mechanics I've seen since the beta.
Most of his interviews he came off as a complete dick, and did he ever stream?
He was BM and the biggest balance whiner in most ladder games I've seen streamed by other players.
Now he is whining about not having a salary, while many many many more qualified players are only getting travel/lodging.
He was the British version of lastshadow.
You really had to fit that in there didn't you?
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I think the problem lies within Dignitas as they're pretty notorious for being tight on salaries.
Winning the next iSeries won't boost his chances of a big team either, every event is pretty much the people who turned up for UK WCS - It's a bit like playing Semi-pro Football and hoping you'll be signed by Manchester United.
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I really would like to hear ODEE's side of the story because I really feel like something is missing from this.
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The ESPlanet article sheds a poor light on Dignitas for not offering a promised salary, but besides a promise, salary wasn't really justified. JR was pretty unexceptional besides mechanics and his style was definitely boring, especially compared to other zergs of his time who are still active and relatively successful.
Dignitas needs some new blood :<. At least BlinG's kicking ass in the  Cascade Clan League.
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On March 08 2013 13:13 shockaslim wrote:
I really would like to hear ODEE's side of the story because I really feel like something is missing from this.
Why must there be more?
JRecco thought he was worth money, Dignitas didn't, so contract never happened.
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Would like to hear from Dignitas on this.
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On March 08 2013 13:13 shockaslim wrote:
I really would like to hear ODEE's side of the story because I really feel like something is missing from this.
its pretty simple, he thought hes worth more for the team than he is and got shut down.
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On March 08 2013 13:12 LuckyMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:52 Cattlecruiser wrote:
He had a good month of notoriety at the height of the queen PATCH, but hasn't posted anything since.
He was also a ZERG that had no flexibility in his play and the worst mechanics I've seen since the beta.
Most of his interviews he came off as a complete dick, and did he ever stream?
He was BM and the biggest balance whiner in most ladder games I've seen streamed by other players.
Now he is whining about not having a salary, while many many many more qualified players are only getting travel/lodging.
He was the British version of lastshadow. You really had to fit that in there didn't you?
If anything lastshadow was much worse.
He never had any results, more arrogant, and actually had the nerve to leave in the middle of Lone Star Clash 2.
At least JonnyRecco had SOME results, which is much better than NONE.
Lastshadow fans were completely delusional, while I haven't encountered any JonnyRecco fans surely they aren't that bad.
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On March 08 2013 10:36 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Sad. I miss the old Dignitas with Naniwa, Select, Sjow. Those were the days...
Hell yeah, they were my favorite foreign team for a long time. Those 3 guys kicked so much ass in both solo and team leagues, and the dignitas hoodies were just awesome.
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ODEE tweeted a few hours after JR announced his leave, that dignitas would be adding to the SC2 Roster after HOTS release. No word yet from Team Dignitas about this matter directly.
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What does Dignitas have now, Bling and dream. They are both preety good, but this seems bad for Dignetas in the long run
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I would like to hear Dignitas's response to what JR is saying. Even if he was BM and fairly unsuccessful a contract is a contract.
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On March 08 2013 13:39 Swords wrote:
I would like to hear Dignitas's response to what JR is saying. Even if he was BM and fairly unsuccessful a contract is a contract.
A "promise" is no contract. What happend was that Dignitas said they could offer him a salary eventually(when they would resign him?), but since he has had no results they no longer thought he was worth a salary and JR ended up not resigning because he thinks he is worth a salary.
Dignitas did not breach his contract, they went back on what they said they would offer which is understandable as JR has done jack shit as of late.
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he declined to sign and was replied to with "lol ok" from Team Dignitas Managing Director Michael "ODEE" O'Dell.
that kinda disappoints me :\ i always loved dignitas, but that doesn't sound professional, coming from such a great team's upper management.
either way, i wish both parties the best; jonnyrecco is a really really good player, i def wouldn't wanna run into him in any tournaments.  i'm sure he'll find a great team for 2013!
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Dignitas is starving, it doesn't have the resources to support it's Starcraft division anymore. It's the cycle of life; let it close and open your talent and sponserships up for other more stable teams to build up with
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PatchTerran= Silver
PatchProtoss= Cruncher
PatchZerg= Scarlett and this recco guy
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On March 08 2013 14:10 ppshchik wrote:
PatchTerran= Silver
PatchProtoss= Cruncher
PatchZerg= Scarlett and this recco guy
That is a bit harsh on Scarlett to compare her with him.
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why is "patchzerg" warn or ban worthy now?
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On March 08 2013 14:13 stew_ wrote:
why is "patchzerg" warn or ban worthy now?
Because it's demeaning of players and gives them absolutely no credit. No matter if there is a problem or not calling them a patch anything is disrespectful and should be ban worthy.
You obviously think it's fine but even if it was terran or protoss overpowered (and if anybody knows me at all they know I have a severe hatred of protoss) I would still find it irritating as hell. It's not even funny just disrespectful.
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On March 08 2013 14:13 stew_ wrote:
why is "patchzerg" warn or ban worthy now?
When the entire post content is nothing but an excuse to throw out "ZOMG PATCHZERG!" that's not really contributing anything to the discussion.
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On March 08 2013 14:13 stew_ wrote:
why is "patchzerg" warn or ban worthy now?
StarCraft 2 Forum Posting Guidelines
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On March 08 2013 14:10 ppshchik wrote:
PatchTerran= Silver
PatchProtoss= Cruncher
PatchZerg= Scarlett and this recco guy
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lol i agree with you but leave scarlett out of this, she actually is really good.
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hoping for a naniwa return!
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Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
User was temp banned for martyring.
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On March 08 2013 15:05 Hexo411 wrote:
Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
Kinda sounds like you haven't read the house rules of TL yet.
Anyhow, I'd agree with all the other temp banned users too, TBH, maybe dignitas is just in the middle of team reshuffle.
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On March 08 2013 15:05 Hexo411 wrote:
Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
User was temp banned for martyring.
What a waste of space...
Anyway, I'll be interested to see the response from Dignitas! I imagine we're not getting the full story here.
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On March 08 2013 15:05 Hexo411 wrote:
Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
User was temp banned for martyring.
And fuck your bigotry as well.
I wonder if dig really did promise a paying contract, or JR just misread what dig said.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
Best thing that could have happened to him, honestly. He is 16 (?), so he should focus on school and his interests outside a computer game.
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On March 08 2013 15:05 Hexo411 wrote:
Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
User was temp banned for martyring.
TL is not a free country gtfo
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I have a strong feeling Dignitas is going to patch their team up as HOTS comes.
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On March 08 2013 13:46 Cassalina wrote:Show nested quote +he declined to sign and was replied to with "lol ok" from Team Dignitas Managing Director Michael "ODEE" O'Dell. that kinda disappoints me :\ i always loved dignitas, but that doesn't sound professional, coming from such a great team's upper management. either way, i wish both parties the best; jonnyrecco is a really really good player, i def wouldn't wanna run into him in any tournaments. i'm sure he'll find a great team for 2013!
Sounds like that's just what he said happened, I doubt it's 100% true.
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I don't like the way this information is presented. It is totally biased.
The other truth might be, that a company is not willing to throw away its money for an investment (player) that isn't worth it. There is no reason to view dignitas as a vilian here.
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On March 08 2013 13:48 DavoS wrote:
Dignitas is starving, it doesn't have the resources to support it's Starcraft division anymore. It's the cycle of life; let it close and open your talent and sponserships up for other more stable teams to build up with
Not so sure about that. They have one of the strongest North American League of Legends team, whose mid player Scarra has 10 - 30k viewers alone just on his personal stream. Not to mention the money they get from their league team exposure. Rather than Dignitas starving, I believe they're waiting for HotS to see who looks the most promising, rather than picking up someone who might not adapt too well.
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On March 08 2013 15:51 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 13:48 DavoS wrote:
Dignitas is starving, it doesn't have the resources to support it's Starcraft division anymore. It's the cycle of life; let it close and open your talent and sponserships up for other more stable teams to build up with Not so sure about that. They have one of the strongest North American League of Legends team, whose mid player Scarra has 10 - 30k viewers alone just on his personal stream. Not to mention the money they get from their league team exposure. Rather than Dignitas starving, I believe they're waiting for HotS to see who looks the most promising, rather than picking up someone who might not adapt too well.
Yeah, to interpret this as Dignitas crumbing is dumb. They have always been one of the most stable esport teams, the fact that they are not giving salaries to players that dont preform is not a sign of anything. But ODEE did talk about Dignitas strategy going forward on the last GDshow and they might not focus to much on thier SC2 squad.
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Shame on JR for going with Dig in the first place without that "salary" in the contract in the first place. In business everything needs to be in the contract. Hope he learned from this.
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If my name was John Bain, I would sign him.
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upon being told "No" once again by the Team Dignitas management he declined to sign and was replied to with "lol ok" from Team Dignitas Managing Director Michael "ODEE" O'Dell.
Ouch.. Seems like Michael didn't feel like patch zergs had any worth either. Oh well.
I wish you luck Paul. Hopefully you get a stream up in Hots.
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On March 08 2013 16:22 ReachTheSky wrote:
Shame on JR for going with Dig in the first place without that "salary" in the contract in the first place. In business everything needs to be in the contract. Hope he learned from this.
Few players get liveable salaries, looks to me like JR thinks he is worth more than he is.
On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him.
As much as TB likes to support the UK scene I think there are a bunch of UK players that are more worthy of support.
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I think the problem here is salary tbh. Since SC2 isnt peaking atm it must be hard for a team to give a player salary who does not stream a lot (maybe I have missed out on him), Havn´t got a huge following, and most important (for me anway), he does not need a salary to sustain himself since he´s not that old.
It´s like, salary is quite a commitment for a team and sure, Jonny had some good results from past year but now it´s a new game. He has a lot to prove to even show that he will deserve a salary.
Hope he finds a new team thou. Whytés got talen and he seams real nice!
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Dignitas getting rid of patchzergs when their value drops. Cool move.
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This guy was really really BM, he also had no real results other than that one UK tournament, at the height of the queen buff. I'm not surprised to see dignitas let him go.
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I don't think all relatively known players deserve salaries. It's hard to market lesser known mid-level players (does he even count as such?), honestly I don't think Dignitas made an unfair call in deciding to not pay him a salary. I'm pretty sure he's still at school and not playing full time.
Also committing oneself to a player when drastic changes in the competitive scene will be happening due to HotS, it was the better decision i think.
Can't help but feel that the Dignitas management is always so arrogant though :X
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patch zerg.
i said it.
see you all after 2 days.
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Um...Who left Dignitas? Never heard of this guy.. No offense..
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Lmfao at the comments in this thread. I guess he deserves it given how much he whined given the race and abusive playstyle he was using. In fairness, I haven't heard anything from him since that TSL4 run, although maybe I missed something.
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22 mins Fredrik Reinius Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
Wow, gotta love the smell of bullshit in the morning. Not an official response but I think we can all guess what this tweet is referring to.
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Good for dignitas, this guy was just insanely bm.
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Do pro players not like him? He's been called out by like 10 people already.
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On March 08 2013 17:09 Tailss wrote:
Good for dignitas, this guy was just insanely bm.
Was he really? Good riddance.
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Anyone got any examples of him BMing?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
What? Apollo left Dignitas? Must have been in that week I was on holiday -.-
Best of luck to him
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On March 08 2013 10:27 StarVe wrote:
Dignitas dropping Zergs as soon as they can to get ready for HotS.
LOL, youre brilliant
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On March 08 2013 15:05 Hexo411 wrote:
Isn't this funny, you are supposed to be able to express your opinion here, but instead you are getting banned for it...
Some people think that he is a patch zerg and even if their opinion is offensive, you can't withheld them the right to have one, offensive or not...
If you want a rational and elaborate opinion, sure, why not?
I think Scarlett is a guy due to the fact that he has XY chromosomes. Simple. Rational. Straightforward.
...But I'm still getting banned for it because LiquidGestapo
I'm just a user and f**k my right to express my opinion and f**k my opinion as well...
User was temp banned for martyring.
I don't think that you understand how the world works.
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On March 08 2013 16:30 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:22 ReachTheSky wrote:
Shame on JR for going with Dig in the first place without that "salary" in the contract in the first place. In business everything needs to be in the contract. Hope he learned from this. Few players get liveable salaries, looks to me like JR thinks he is worth more than he is. Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. As much as TB likes to support the UK scene I think there are a bunch of UK players that are more worthy of support.
I agree with that but just in general it's really foolish to sign a business contract with expectations that aren't listed in it, regardless of what they told you.
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Poland3748 Posts
On March 08 2013 15:37 ssxsilver wrote:
Nooo, not Apollo too!
Yea, I don't get it as well. Unless Apollo asked for to much. But I think he is in decent position as he is extremely popular, improved his casting a lot and team for a caster it's not that important. Still I recall boss of Dignitas called him family in an interview. As for Johnny I don't really care about him that much. Apollo news is bigger for me.
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JR wasn't bad at all as many people are saying, I am judging this by his HOTS vods, where he played against Seed, and it was great game. But, I really dislike that he is bad mannered, most VODs that I've seen him losing, he was just flaming the other guy that his race is imba...
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
One thing you learn with Dignitas is they do not mess around when it comes to renewing contracts! Bisu, hasn't performed well boom got rid of him. Apollo wasn't offering anything but commentary, boom got rid of him. JReeco, hasn't performed well internationally towards the end of WOL, Boom got rid of him. Got rid of Sjow twice.
They aren't this trigger happy with there FIFA roster though, that hardly changes! Guess it will be fun who they pick up though!
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shocking, I wish him good luck in finding a new team, he is a great player
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JR had like what, one good run in a tournament, two?
And then gg'ed out of the scene.
Not surprising at all to hear his exit from Dignitas.
Although I don't like the term patch[insert whatever race you want here] I always wondered if there are any statistics showing player performances rise or fall after certain patches (regardless of what race they play).
That would be interesting to see on a chart with the patches on a timeline (x axis) and then see some kind of "performance" on the Y axis.
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Naniwa's return incoming.
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the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one.
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On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one.
If you don't see how calling someone a patchzerg in a thread that is about him leaving a team is a bad thing then you need to get your shit together.
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On March 08 2013 17:11 RagequitBM wrote:
Do pro players not like him? He's been called out by like 10 people already.
To be fair, he did only rise to prominence AFTER the patch.
http://aligulac.com/players/165-JonnyREcco/
His ZvT went from 1059 to 1469 after the patch.
(This is not me calling him a patch zerg)
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More excellent SC2 Scouting by Dignitas.
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Poland3748 Posts
On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one.
Well it bothers me as well. Considering it was coined - afaik at least - on TL (Ver's article) and Johny Recco's prominence time coincided with "rise of the patchzergs". I'm not saying he is bad, just that's this coincidence. I think someone was way to eager to throw warns/bans around.
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Sad to see another Dignitas member leave but good to know they're getting more players for HOTS
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Well, after Dignitas purged their sc2 division like that, I am really looking forward to the new players they will be enlisting.
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On March 08 2013 18:03 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one. If you don't see how calling someone a patchzerg in a thread that is about him leaving a team is a bad thing then you need to get your shit together.
If youre so smart, then please explain it to me. Why was it bad to call him a patchzerg? I'm not saying he is one nor do I call him that, I barely remember any of his games but why do people get warned/banned for calling someone a patchzerg? It may not be 100% relevant but if the only replies we are allowed to contribute to a thread like "xx left team yy" are "thats so sad" then theres no point in making such threads in the first place.
Also if we needed to stay 100% on topic then you needed to be warned just like 95% of the people who replied to this thread.
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On March 08 2013 17:14 philip697 wrote:
Anyone got any examples of him BMing?
On March 08 2013 17:11 RagequitBM wrote:
Do pro players not like him? He's been called out by like 10 people already.
Seems to be a common occurrence, I remember in the thread mentioning his signing there were a lot of pros talking about his BM as well. Also when I've been watching other peoples streams (DeMuslim and TLO's to name a couple) whenever he lost he'd never leave the game with a gg, just a sarcastic comment. If it is all true, (which it probably is judging by the sheer number of people mentioning it, no smoke without fire) then he'll have a hard time improving from a team anyway. Sure maybe they'll cover his travel and stuff, but he mentioned something about going to a team house? Would you want to practice/help a guy who constantly throws a temper tantrum every time you beat him?
On March 08 2013 18:03 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one. If you don't see how calling someone a patchzerg in a thread that is about him leaving a team is a bad thing then you need to get your shit together.
Mmm-hmm
On March 08 2013 16:38 aTnClouD wrote:
Dignitas getting rid of patchzergs when their value drops. Cool move.
^ oh look, no ban/warning/whatever
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, but finding it really hard to respect that rule when others are clearly exempt from it.
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hmmm thats too bad hope he finds a good team
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On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 17:14 philip697 wrote:
Anyone got any examples of him BMing? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 17:11 RagequitBM wrote:
Do pro players not like him? He's been called out by like 10 people already. Seems to be a common occurrence, I remember in the thread mentioning his signing there were a lot of pros talking about his BM as well. Also when I've been watching other peoples streams (DeMuslim and TLO's to name a couple) whenever he lost he'd never leave the game with a gg, just a sarcastic comment. If it is all true, (which it probably is judging by the sheer number of people mentioning it, no smoke without fire) then he'll have a hard time improving from a team anyway. Sure maybe they'll cover his travel and stuff, but he mentioned something about going to a team house? Would you want to practice/help a guy who constantly throws a temper tantrum every time you beat him? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:03 Fragile51 wrote:On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one. If you don't see how calling someone a patchzerg in a thread that is about him leaving a team is a bad thing then you need to get your shit together. Mmm-hmm Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:38 aTnClouD wrote:
Dignitas getting rid of patchzergs when their value drops. Cool move.
^ oh look, no ban/warning/whatever I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, but finding it really hard to respect that rule when others are clearly exempt from it.
Progamers and forum veterans get a lot more leverage on this site. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. It is even in the TL commandments.
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Without intentionally adding fuel to any fire here...
There were some issues regarding Jonny and his non-attendance at WCG, I believe because his father wouldn't let him travel to China.
He ended up coming to the ESET UK Masters instead and placing 3rd.
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On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it,
why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me.
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On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me.
It's basically the same as saying: You suck, it's only because you play zerg and were at the right place at the right time.
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On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me.
Because it's demeaning of players and gives them absolutely no credit. No matter if there is a problem or not calling them a patch anything is disrespectful and should be ban worthy.
You obviously think it's fine but even if it was terran or protoss overpowered (and if anybody knows me at all they know I have a severe hatred of protoss) I would still find it irritating as hell. It's not even funny just disrespectful.
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On March 08 2013 18:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me. Because it's demeaning of players and gives them absolutely no credit. No matter if there is a problem or not calling them a patch anything is disrespectful and should be ban worthy. You obviously think it's fine but even if it was terran or protoss overpowered (and if anybody knows me at all they know I have a severe hatred of protoss) I would still find it irritating as hell. It's not even funny just disrespectful.
Yeah, it's basically like insulting someone as a "trustfund kiddie" without knowing if the person actually had to put in effort at school to keep his trustfund - or if he would actually be wealthy by his own merits without his parents money - by now.
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United States33199 Posts
I'm more interested in these unfulfilled promises
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On March 08 2013 18:31 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me. It's basically the same as saying: You suck, it's only because you play zerg and were at the right place at the right time.
If that were even remotely the case and Zerg required no skill then all the pro players would switch to that race but they didnt.
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So everyone calling him patchzerg gets a temp ban except Cloud? 
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On March 08 2013 17:42 frozzz wrote:
shocking, I wish him good luck in finding a new team, he is a great player
Sarkazam against bans on TL :trollface:
Anyway...hope he finds a new team soon, he is a great player
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On March 08 2013 18:44 TrutY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 17:42 frozzz wrote:
shocking, I wish him good luck in finding a new team, he is a great player Sarkazam against bans on TL :trollface: Anyway...hope he finds a new team soon, he is a great player
hope he finds a new team soon, he was a great player since patch 1.4.3
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He is BM, his best result was the 3rd place at WCS UK. Why did dignatas pick him up in the first place?
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On March 08 2013 18:51 graNite wrote:
He is BM, his best result was the 3rd place at WCS UK. Why did dignatas pick him up in the first place?
those were different times back in the days. patchzergs were a desired commodity. i know, hard to imagine, right?
User was warned for this post
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He was a mediocre (compared to othe "named" players) player that played a boring style that added no excitement to himself as a player or to his team. Throw in that HotS is about to come out (and bring inventiveness to an art for the first year or two) and that Dignitas is questioning even pursuing their SC2 roster further and we can see where this went easily.
I believe that he overvalued himself in a slightly oversaturated market and wasn't capable of performing to his own expectations. Dignitas should not (and apparently did not) feel the need to pay for the player... and considering his level of BM, they probably didn't feel the need to pay for the person either.
It is good that our community is becoming less accepting of BM. Also, TL mods, thumbs up.
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I always thought that Dignitas one of the better teams. Pretty shocked about those unfulfilled promises...
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On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me.
Agreed, it makes perfect sense right? A patch came out that was clearly intended to buff zerg, ergo zergs post-patch turned in better results, thus they are 'patchzergs'. Problem is the term has lost its 'state-of-fact' and has now been intended as a derogatory term for a long while now ("you're not good, you're just a patchzerg" ect.). This is evident in that either through frustration or ignorance people still use the term, even when the patch has been out for the best part of 10 months now and things have stabilised in terms of global win rates and that zergs have since received nerfs. Whenever the term is used it is 99% of the time used as an attack or to cause offence (‘to troll’ if you will) and if people are trying to build a structured debate about balance then they’ll steer well clear of the term so they’ll be taken more seriously.
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nobody knew recco before patch. everybody heard of him after the patch. getting banned for calling someone "a patchzerg" even though he is the best example of a patchzerg is just silly.
in this case is not even derogatory. its plain and simple truth. it would be derogatory to call him anything other than patchzerg
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On March 08 2013 18:51 graNite wrote:
He is BM, his best result was the 3rd place at WCS UK. Why did dignatas pick him up in the first place?
I'm pretty sure you answered that question yourself
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fun fact, Recco was the second best foreign zerg on the HOTS ladder
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Poland3748 Posts
On March 08 2013 18:42 Waxangel wrote:
I'm more interested in these unfulfilled promises
This actually looks like one side of the story. They might said something a lot more vague, and he took it as a promise.
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Ctrl+F "patchzerg"
Success!
Seriously TL, can't you be happy someone had success without belittling their achievements?
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What a great player he was. Outstanding performances using such a difficult race, I'm sure he will be flooded with offers.
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patch zerg, hots is coming, it was predictable.
User was temp banned for this post.
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no surprise, but don't help the guy setup a stream is kind of lame.
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Just because I think this thread is really one-sided, to push back a little bit against some of the hate; for a long time Jrecco was considered a huge talent. He's very young and young players often suffer from character challenges. If he can mature well as a talent and as a person, he could make waves again. This will be a big test for him and where he ends up, how they train him and how he's expected to conduct himself will hugely influence his future as a progamer.
Personally, I get much more frustrated and annoyed when older and established players act that way.
Also, seeming everyone seems so fascinated with the term "patchzerg". Let me just point out a lot of the people using it are being arbitrarily selective. It seems "patchzerg" rather than being related to a certain playstyle now refers to "any zerg that became stronger after the infamous patch that I don't like".
I actually don't think Dignitas' position was wrong, personally I don't think in the shape he's in Jrecco should be getting a salary. But I'm very disappointed with how people are conducting themselves in this thread.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On March 08 2013 19:50 Nekovivie wrote:
Ctrl+F "patchzerg"
Success!
Seriously TL, can't you be happy someone had success without belittling their achievements?
You're asking if a group of hundreds of thousands of people can share your view on the relevance of zerg wins.
No.
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Keeping a thousand zergs on the roster ain't so hot anymore, I can understand the urge to shave a few off. I'm just disgusted by the fact that a lot of teams opted to recruit zergs last year, leaving the other races' potential players without a team.
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Did he do anything after TSL4? 3rd place UK WCS is like 3rd place at local LAN party.
Naniwa must be secretly (or not) smiling now.
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On March 08 2013 20:14 Martijn wrote:
I actually don't think Dignitas' position was wrong, personally I don't think in the shape he's in Jrecco should be getting a salary. But I'm very disappointed with how people are conducting themselves in this thread.
If what he said was true (that he was promised a salary) then whether he deserves it or not is irrelevant. He signed with Dignitas on the promise of that prospect, among other things that were allegedly not given to him. If he is in fact telling the truth then I don't see how you could possibly side with Dignitas' business behavior. Would like to hear their retort, if they believe Jonny's leaving statement warrants one, which it does, cause if it's not true it hurts their reputation, and if it is true they need to explain themselves.
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Good luck to Paul, hope he finds a new team!
The part about Dignitas scares me, and I hope they don't follow the steps of other teams who drop more/all of their SC2 division.
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Ok, I can understand johnnyrecco leaving. Unfulfilled promises and whatnot. But let's be honest, the guy never shone that much. More importantly. when did Apollo leave Dignitas? I haven´t seen a news piece anywhere about Shaun parting ways with them :/
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You guys call him a patchzerg but have you really looked closely to one of his replay (I did more than once lol) ? Because even though zerg patch might have help him (it helped every single zerg player right ?), he is a good player, with good mechanics ...
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K.
User was warned for this post
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Hmmm, interesting this about salary and promises. Lets hope we get some more info on that.
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On March 08 2013 18:44 trada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:31 Grovbolle wrote:On March 08 2013 18:29 trada wrote:On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:
I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, why? why is the word "patchzerg" a bad word at all? it doesnt say anything about your intelligence or abilities. It states that you played a race around the time when it was widely accepted as the best race and you won games with it. If pro players play for money and zerg is an acceptable race in tournaments then pro players who pick Zerg as their race are pretty smart if you ask me. It's basically the same as saying: You suck, it's only because you play zerg and were at the right place at the right time. If that were even remotely the case and Zerg required no skill then all the pro players would switch to that race but they didnt.
Are you not reading what I am saying? I am not saying that patch zerg is a thing, but since you want to debate, let's look on some of the so called patch zergs. SortOf and JR have really big increases in level AFTER may 10. Vortix' rise is in the summer (he didn't play much before because of school etc.) I am not saying that these players aren't good or anything, I am just saying that there is some truth behind the term when foreigners could beat what most perceived as much better koreans in non-mirror match-ups. Snute has been on a rise in general, although his biggest increase in ranking also happened after the patch.
And no, all professional players wouldn't switch race, now you are just being silly.
http://aligulac.com/players/52-VortiX/
http://aligulac.com/players/75-SortOf/
http://aligulac.com/players/165-JonnyREcco/
http://aligulac.com/players/111-Snute/
TL:DR : Is patch-zerg a thing? It lies in your definition of the word, and whether or not you choose to use it in a derogative manner. But most people use it negatively, just like some people use gay or jew as a slur.
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On March 08 2013 20:59 E.L.V.I.S wrote:
You guys call him a patchzerg but have you really looked closely to one of his replay (I did more than once lol) ? Because even though zerg patch might have help him (it helped every single zerg player right ?), he is a good player, with good mechanics ...
I think most people (myself included) have only really seen his EGMC games and his TSL games. In every single one of those games, he does exactly the same build every single time: turtle to infestor broodlord and mass spines. He did this at a time where everyone were starting to realize how easy and powerful that was (right after the queen patch). And he did this at a time that everyone hated the fact that mediocre zergs were having huge success against everyone doing that sort of play style. And his mechanics were not good, he would routinely a-move his entire BL/infestor army to deal with a 1 medivac drop.
He played a playstyle that was considered OP by everyone. He played it in a way that no one wanted to watch and everyone hated (65 minute games where he would just never attack, ever. He wouldn't harass, he wouldn't do anything. He would win because the other person gg'd without JRecco every attacking: see beastyqt vs. JRecco on EGMC). Then he lost relevance once people started figuring out how to somewhat punish that turtle strategy. On top of all of that, he was really BM and every loss would be followed by how weak zerg is. He even posted in balance threads about how zerg is the weakest race still, post queen patch.
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On March 08 2013 20:41 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 20:14 Martijn wrote:
I actually don't think Dignitas' position was wrong, personally I don't think in the shape he's in Jrecco should be getting a salary. But I'm very disappointed with how people are conducting themselves in this thread. If what he said was true (that he was promised a salary) then whether he deserves it or not is irrelevant. He signed with Dignitas on the promise of that prospect, among other things that were allegedly not given to him. If he is in fact telling the truth then I don't see how you could possibly side with Dignitas' business behavior. Would like to hear their retort, if they believe Jonny's leaving statement warrants one, which it does, cause if it's not true it hurts their reputation, and if it is true they need to explain themselves.
Problem with all this is, we'll never know exactly what was promised. Even if a manager says "if you keep going like this, we'll offer you a salary next year", did that player keep up performance? Was he expected to keep growing and becoming stronger, keep a positive line going? And that's if a promise was even made, for all we know is it was "yeah, we'll look into it start of 2013".
This is all really muddied up, so I think we're better off reasoning what should have been, not what was and wasn't said.
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For those confused about Apollo, calm your beards. ODEE tweeted this earlier today:
Michael O'Dell @dignitasODEE
TL people come wtf my friend @ApolloSC2 did not leave us he evolved into a World Class commentator with our full support! Friends for life!
Also, GL to JR with finding a team, although if he was really BM in-game, that might be rough.
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JonnyREcco might be bm, right, but I don't think he deserved to be a patch zerg. Nevertheless, it might be hard for him to find a new team considering that we are in full transition toward HotS where zergs suffer.
Like to here Odee on that also.
edit : "to be called a patch zerg" and not "to be a patch zerg", of course :p (Thank you Grovbolle)
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On March 08 2013 18:42 Waxangel wrote:
I'm more interested in these unfulfilled promises
Yeah. Someone promised something to someone. Someone stops delivering results and someone isn't sure about the commitment anymore. Then someone wants (more) money from someone without posting any (at least slightly relevant) results and - out of the blue - someone just says "lol ok" about someone leaving some team. I wonder what went wrong here. Oh, wait.
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On March 08 2013 21:24 Serimek wrote:
JonnyREcco might be bm, right, but I don't think he deserved to be a patch zerg. Nevertheless, it might be hard for him to find a new team considering that we are in full transition toward HotS where zergs suffer.
Like to here Odee on that also.
He didn't deserve to be a patch-zerg? or be called a patch-zerg?
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Does this mean Michael Ironside gets to shoot him?
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On March 08 2013 21:46 JonIrenicus wrote:
The fact is, I got reported, but I don't think my own opinion was expressed in a offensive manner.
Should this be a forum where anyone can express his own opinion? I can call a noob even MVP if I wish so (even if it's my preferite player, so you know understand what I'm wishing to show you).
I've just put the fact straight, but it seems like that there is no democracy inside this forum to say an opinion, or it can gets you a report for being offensive.
Was I direct? Yes.
Was I offensive? Maybe. If I had not called him patchzerg, and would have said that he did good just after the patch, would have it been equally offensive?
What a great show this forum is. Thanks Teamliquid.
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You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you.
This isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship which gives you freedom of speech under their personal moral code and guidelines/rules, if you don't like it, go somewhere else.
Edit: This is not a critique, I like it this way, I too have been banned once (or twice I don't recall) and warned a few times, and it made me consider my posting a lot more because I really like this forum and would hate to be banned again.
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United States33199 Posts
He stated that there were "quite a few things in the end" that made him leave, from contract issues to not receiving the help he was promised with setting up his stream. We have also learned that he was promised a contract with a small salary at ESWC which he "waited and waited for and never got" and when he asked about the contract again at the beginning of this year, everything was up in the air.
depending on how this "promise" was made, that could either be really unethical of dignitas, or really poorly misunderstood by Jonnyrecco. Hopefully dignitas has something to say in this regard?
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On March 08 2013 22:00 JonIrenicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 21:51 Grovbolle wrote:On March 08 2013 21:46 JonIrenicus wrote:
The fact is, I got reported, but I don't think my own opinion was expressed in a offensive manner.
Should this be a forum where anyone can express his own opinion? I can call a noob even MVP if I wish so (even if it's my preferite player, so you know understand what I'm wishing to show you).
I've just put the fact straight, but it seems like that there is no democracy inside this forum to say an opinion, or it can gets you a report for being offensive.
Was I direct? Yes.
Was I offensive? Maybe. If I had not called him patchzerg, and would have said that he did good just after the patch, would have it been equally offensive?
What a great show this forum is. Thanks Teamliquid. From TL commandments
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you.
This isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship which gives you freedom of speech under their personal moral code and guidelines/rules, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. Edit: This is not a critique, I like it this way, I too have been banned once (or twice I don't recall) and warned a few times, and it made me consider my posting a lot more because I really like this forum and would hate to be banned again. nono, you misunderstood what I meant to say. My only critique was that If I had implied it, I wouldn't have been reported. But, by being direct, my post was labelled as offensive.
As long as you weren't banned, you are just whining about people on the internet swinging their e-peen because they don't agree with you. Welcome to the internet
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Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper.
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On March 08 2013 22:04 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +He stated that there were "quite a few things in the end" that made him leave, from contract issues to not receiving the help he was promised with setting up his stream. We have also learned that he was promised a contract with a small salary at ESWC which he "waited and waited for and never got" and when he asked about the contract again at the beginning of this year, everything was up in the air. depending on how this "promise" was made, that could either be really unethical of dignitas, or really poorly misunderstood by Jonnyrecco. Hopefully dignitas has something to say in this regard?
Hopefully, but we haven't heard anything from dignitas as of yet =/
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On March 08 2013 20:41 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 20:14 Martijn wrote:
I actually don't think Dignitas' position was wrong, personally I don't think in the shape he's in Jrecco should be getting a salary. But I'm very disappointed with how people are conducting themselves in this thread. If what he said was true (that he was promised a salary) then whether he deserves it or not is irrelevant. He signed with Dignitas on the promise of that prospect, among other things that were allegedly not given to him. If he is in fact telling the truth then I don't see how you could possibly side with Dignitas' business behavior. Would like to hear their retort, if they believe Jonny's leaving statement warrants one, which it does, cause if it's not true it hurts their reputation, and if it is true they need to explain themselves.
Since we're dealing with one side of the story, we tend to make assumptions based on our logic or experience, clouded in our opinions. One person might take the news at face value, and feel as if the player was wronged by his organization. Another person might feel the opposite. Speculation never really gets anywhere; at least that's my experience in threads like these.
I'll share my thoughts anyway - I'm not sure any organization, team or managing entity would ever promise a player a certain amount of money or salary without conditions or incentive. It just isn't realistic to think that way. Dignitas has been around for a very long time; and they don't give off Eclypsia vibes. They just don't.
On the other hand, we have a below-average foreigner, who has a reputation for BM. I'd like to add that I've never seen him BM (I don't really care for non-GSL/OSL Starcraft 2), but the fact that it's been brought up in the very first few comments about him says enough - imagine if I was a potential sponsor, and I'm looking into his out-of-game presentation value at this very moment.
His games, on the other hand, I've seen a bit of. He's nothing special. He's not inspiring. He's mediocre at best, when looking at the pro-scene as a whole. He hasn't brought anything to SC2; he's no Vortix who always disappoints his haters, he's no Scarlett who's pretty darn good! He's no Spanishiwa (remember him?), the guy who gets gas at 15 minutes.
Again, I don't know the full story; I'm waiting for a statement from Dignitas. At least for now, can we stop with the Patchzerg crap? That shit's older than Gangnam Style.
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On March 08 2013 22:16 Master of DalK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 22:04 Waxangel wrote:He stated that there were "quite a few things in the end" that made him leave, from contract issues to not receiving the help he was promised with setting up his stream. We have also learned that he was promised a contract with a small salary at ESWC which he "waited and waited for and never got" and when he asked about the contract again at the beginning of this year, everything was up in the air. depending on how this "promise" was made, that could either be really unethical of dignitas, or really poorly misunderstood by Jonnyrecco. Hopefully dignitas has something to say in this regard? Hopefully, but we haven't heard anything from dignitas as of yet =/
Newman tweeted the following things:
6 hrs Fredrik Reinius Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
Wow, gotta love the smell of bullshit in the morning.
5 hrs Fredrik Reinius Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
So, who do we pick up for HotS? Suggestions?
1hr Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
The irony of reading an ethics in esports journalism column on esplanet.
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On March 08 2013 22:12 Brawny wrote:
Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper.
lol so true.
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havnt heard much good from dignitas OR recco for along time.. at least not in the relevant or big tournaments. so yeah.
hopefully they get their stuff together and ready for hots! that be cool, need more "new" players there
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 08 2013 18:13 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 17:14 philip697 wrote:
Anyone got any examples of him BMing? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 17:11 RagequitBM wrote:
Do pro players not like him? He's been called out by like 10 people already. Seems to be a common occurrence, I remember in the thread mentioning his signing there were a lot of pros talking about his BM as well. Also when I've been watching other peoples streams (DeMuslim and TLO's to name a couple) whenever he lost he'd never leave the game with a gg, just a sarcastic comment. If it is all true, (which it probably is judging by the sheer number of people mentioning it, no smoke without fire) then he'll have a hard time improving from a team anyway. Sure maybe they'll cover his travel and stuff, but he mentioned something about going to a team house? Would you want to practice/help a guy who constantly throws a temper tantrum every time you beat him? Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 18:03 Fragile51 wrote:On March 08 2013 18:02 trada wrote:
the amount of warnings and bans in this thread is more shocking than the news itself. why is calling someone a patchzerg such a bad thing now? this is no political discussion nor is it relevant for anybody else other than maybe the people in the sc2 scene and I know this doesnt mean its a freeride to flames and insults but cmon, its an internet forum, liquid, act like one. If you don't see how calling someone a patchzerg in a thread that is about him leaving a team is a bad thing then you need to get your shit together. Mmm-hmm Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:38 aTnClouD wrote:
Dignitas getting rid of patchzergs when their value drops. Cool move.
^ oh look, no ban/warning/whatever I'm fine with the whole 'call patch zerg and get temp ban' thing, I get why they do it, but finding it really hard to respect that rule when others are clearly exempt from it.
If you want to see cloud banned, report him, if you cannot report, spend enough time on TL until you can.
People frequently forget that access to TL is a privilege and not a right, this is not a democracy.
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On March 08 2013 22:48 ODKStevez wrote:
Apollo left too?
Michael O'Dell @dignitasODEE
TL people come wtf my friend @ApolloSC2 did not leave us he evolved into a World Class commentator with our full support! Friends for life!
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On March 08 2013 22:19 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 22:16 Master of DalK wrote:On March 08 2013 22:04 Waxangel wrote:He stated that there were "quite a few things in the end" that made him leave, from contract issues to not receiving the help he was promised with setting up his stream. We have also learned that he was promised a contract with a small salary at ESWC which he "waited and waited for and never got" and when he asked about the contract again at the beginning of this year, everything was up in the air. depending on how this "promise" was made, that could either be really unethical of dignitas, or really poorly misunderstood by Jonnyrecco. Hopefully dignitas has something to say in this regard? Hopefully, but we haven't heard anything from dignitas as of yet =/ Newman tweeted the following things: Show nested quote +6 hrs Fredrik Reinius Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
Wow, gotta love the smell of bullshit in the morning.
5 hrs Fredrik Reinius Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
So, who do we pick up for HotS? Suggestions?
1hr Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
The irony of reading an ethics in esports journalism column on esplanet.
rather than just ranting at esplanet why don't Dignitas come out with their own story?....
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On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:Show nested quote +
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post
He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors.
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On March 08 2013 22:51 ODKStevez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors.
The power of infestors still has adverse effects on the metagame even if a player doesn't use it.
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On March 08 2013 22:51 ODKStevez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors.
If you got in a fight with someone and you knew they had a huge right hook... they haven't thrown it yet, but you know they could... would you still be wary of it and respect it?
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On March 08 2013 10:33 Lumi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol.
( I could maybe see that now more-so now with the lack of results being posted, but, he was really taking on some top players (koreans included) for a minute there and IIRC they were pretty legit games not reflective of patch zerginess. I'm a top master zerg myself and I pride myself on my zerg talent scouting! I knew from the first of DRGs broadcast games that the future of Z had arrived, that no Z like him had been seen thus far in the game. And again with Stephano, before he won anything! I'd like to throw the weight of my zerg talent scouting behind Johnny as a valid zerg with some potential. Or such was the distinct impression that was made on me a while back :o Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:27 StarVe wrote:
Dignitas dropping Zergs as soon as they can to get ready for HotS. LOL!
wow you are such a cool person someone should give you a job damn...
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On March 08 2013 23:00 philip697 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 22:51 ODKStevez wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors. If you got in a fight with someone and you knew they had a huge right hook... they haven't thrown it yet, but you know they could... would you still be wary of it and respect it?
every zerg player in the world has the ability to make infestors...does that make them all patchzergs then?
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Come on Stevez, I know you hate the term patchzerg but really? As we argued the other day, I accepted that 'patchzerg' is often mis-applied to players who are actually good.
Look at Scarlett, top notch creep spread, decent control and spreading, good map awareness, solid macro.
Seriously, where does Recco actually show that he's a good player in terms of actual definable 'strengths'?
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On March 08 2013 23:16 Sabre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 23:00 philip697 wrote:On March 08 2013 22:51 ODKStevez wrote:On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors. If you got in a fight with someone and you knew they had a huge right hook... they haven't thrown it yet, but you know they could... would you still be wary of it and respect it? every zerg player in the world has the ability to make infestors...does that make them all patchzergs then?
No but it sure gives them an extra advantage. Also, when something is OP to the point it controls the metagame, it also severely limits creativity for the other races. Maybe there are all these different builds that, for example, Terran players could use, but the threat of infestors is so large that they have to focus completely on dealing with that instead of exploring other options.
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On March 08 2013 23:18 Wombat_NI wrote:
Come on Stevez, I know you hate the term patchzerg but really? As we argued the other day, I accepted that 'patchzerg' is often mis-applied to players who are actually good.
Look at Scarlett, top notch creep spread, decent control and spreading, good map awareness, solid macro.
Seriously, where does Recco actually show that he's a good player in terms of actual definable 'strengths'?
All the people it applies to are actually good with absolut no exceptions which have been pointed out so far. Thats the point. There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between scarlett and other so called patchzergs. She somehow gets away with it though because she isnt European. If scarlett is not a patchzerg then there absolutely cannot be such a thing. Even snute gets accused and look how many online tournaments and lans he has won. His accomplishments dwarf scarletts.
Jrecco is second highest ranked foreigner gm zerg on hots ladder. Sure the patch helped him but it helped all zergs but he was still a solid gm euro zerg long before the patch regularly besting top players on ladder. And he certainly did not infestor turtle exclusively that is utter hogwash.
Better to be accused of being a patchzerg than being a hopeless delusional pro like cloud I suppose.
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On March 08 2013 22:51 ODKStevez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 10:16 Champi wrote:
I actually really like this guy.. he made a big splash closer to half a year ago now and hasn't been in the spotlight much since then but I'm still really interested to see where he goes. Seemed like a Zerg with real promise / potential from the first I saw of his play.
really?... he just seemed like the biggest of patch zergs to me lol. still... im very worried about dignitas sc2 division, im pretty sure theres only 2 or 3 players left now, and i wouldnt be surprised to hear them leave or get dropped soon and have the sc2 division close down altogether User was warned for this post He was not a patch zerg at all. I don't even agree with that phrase. I seen him play at Insomnia and he never even used infestors.
Most progamers seem to agree to Jrecco being one of the biggest "patchzergs" (heard it in many interviews and on many streams).
I heavily disagree with that.
While he became relevent just when the race itself got better overall, his playstayle was very different to the "brofestor" only style. he played agressive and very creative, with good mechanics and understanding of the game.
Best of luck to JohnnyRecco, hope to hear more of him soon, was a bit silent around him in the last 3-4 months.
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Hope he finds a nice team would be nice for the UK fan base, considering compared to other bigger EU country's it's slim pickings.
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This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story.
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On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story.
Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract?
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On March 08 2013 12:22 LeeDawg wrote:
is the term 'patchzerg' warn worthy now?
Specially with this being one of the most popular and accepted threads in months:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385876
I guess the same mod who is warning using "the word" should run and close that thread.
Ontipic, i really hope Dignitas get back in shape with a nice Sc2 lineup.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract?
Apparently not. That said it did appear to be his call, from what I gather.
Just checked Dignitas' current roster, and wow it's really withering away to nothing. Hoping they can pick up some solid names sometime soon. If not, I'd like to see some kind of 'development squad' for talented UK players. It's monstrously hard for many of us to get noticed, especially if the UK based teams are currently downsizing by the looks of it.
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JR isnt a Patchzerg, hes doing extremely well in hots and hes a solid player, he will continue to do well in the coming months.
And Cloud your not in a posistion to call him a patchzerg when your terrible at SC2!
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On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract?
Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon.
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Being Zerg/player skill had 100% nothing to do with this decision.
Surely "patchzerg" would only apply to players that were only good because of patch. JRecco was 2nd highest zerg GM in HoTS iirc?
Different game, same skill.
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On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon.
Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic.
Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr.
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JR is the definition of bad zerg players getting great results because of the patch. I would be surprised if anyone picks him up. The only one who has stayed reasonably on top, after they broke out due to the patch is Scarlett. But I'll keep faith just for the sake that anything can happen when Hots comes out so it is possible that he could make a come back, not likely but possible.
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On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr.
Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game.
I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with.
Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat.
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On March 09 2013 00:25 AhOhitzXray wrote:
JR is the definition of bad zerg players getting great results because of the patch. I would be surprised if anyone picks him up. The only one who has stayed reasonably on top, after they broke out due to the patch is Scarlett. But I'll keep faith just for the sake that anything can happen when Hots comes out so it is possible that he could make a come back, not likely but possible.
See exactly what I am talking about! What has scarlett done that makes her different than these other players? How is she 'on top'? How were they 'on top' before and now they aren't? Just complete made up nonsense.
And if Jrecco is so bad how is he 2nd highest foreigner zerg on hots gm ladder? He was a solid eu gm zerg before the patch as well.
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On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat.
I agree completely with this
Suppy does the same thing all the other "patchzergs" did but he isn't a ass and plays to win.
jrecco was basically an asshole and got over-cocky when he won, and QQ'd like mad when he loses. it just didnt help that zerg was OP at that time. so yes, the community does indeed have reason to hate him for being a prick.
no1 calls violet or leenock or drg a patchzerg when they did gglord/infestor/spine turtle back in 2012. the hate on sniper isn't really real "hate", people were just frustrated. I think the majority of the community probably have respect for him as a player even though they were really pissed off at him winning GSL
edit: lolok
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On March 09 2013 00:25 AhOhitzXray wrote:
JR is the definition of bad zerg players getting great results because of the patch. I would be surprised if anyone picks him up. The only one who has stayed reasonably on top, after they broke out due to the patch is Scarlett. But I'll keep faith just for the sake that anything can happen when Hots comes out so it is possible that he could make a come back, not likely but possible.
You see, this is one on the people who are jumping the hate-wagon I talked about. He claims JonnyR is a talentless scrub, but provides no evidence to back this up. Then says that the only really good player is Scarlett, but doesn’t say why. Just jumping on what is considered to be “fact” and assuming people will agree with their claims.
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inb4 JRecco outperforms all of dignitas at i48 in 2weeks
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
@Spiral WATCH people play, make judgement. Pretty simple. Nothing inconsistent about it. Scarlett has exceptional mechanics, it's patently obvious other players don't (this isn't aimed at JRecco incidentally). WATCH them. It's like claiming Elfi is just as good as some other foreign Protoss players when he was having equivalent results, when it's apparent within a few games of watching him play that he isn't.
Zergs did what was good at the time, certain Zergs are now falling off that that style doesn't work. It's not some anti-Zerg conspiracy we don't 'hate' Zergs. I've been loving Ret's play and Violet's play in the recent IEM, good Zerg players will regain some of their identity if the race functions better in WoL. If JRecco is good, so will he.
I hate players being bashed unnecessarily, but equally I hate this blindness to the state of Zerg towards the end of WoL when it WAS a complete joke of a race. HoTS has me hopeful for the future though
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On March 09 2013 00:38 peidongyang wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. I agree completely with this Suppy does the same thing all the other "patchzergs" did but he isn't a ass and plays to win. jrecco was basically an asshole and got over-cocky when he won, and QQ'd like mad when he loses. it just didnt help that zerg was OP at that time. so yes, the community does indeed have reason to hate him for being a prick. no1 calls violet or leenock or drg a patchzerg when they did gglord/infestor/spine turtle back in 2012. the hate on sniper isn't really real "hate", people were just frustrated. I think the majority of the community probably have respect for him as a player even though they were really pissed off at him winning GSL edit: lolok
So what about snute. One of the nicest most modest and well spoken pro gamers with so many results. But he is a patchzerg to many. The commonality between the people who get accused and who dont of being a patchzerg is one thing. They are euros. It has nothing to do with either skill or personality.
A lot of ppl dont follow the euro scene so they think these people like bly or snute came out of nowhere. But they have actually more results than people believe and were sround for a long time grinding it out in the euro scene before improving. Like snute has won more tournaments since hsc than suppy or scarlett have won ever. But he has slumped right? Patchzerg gonna patch. Because people dont follow the euro scene.
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On March 09 2013 00:25 AhOhitzXray wrote:
JR is the definition of bad zerg players getting great results because of the patch. I would be surprised if anyone picks him up. The only one who has stayed reasonably on top, after they broke out due to the patch is Scarlett. But I'll keep faith just for the sake that anything can happen when Hots comes out so it is possible that he could make a come back, not likely but possible.
im pretty sure you and almost 95% of the ppl here talking shit about him cant even remember a single game of him.
you have absolutly no clue what style he plays and just agree with the gerenal opinion, that is based on players like Naniwa Idra or whoever talking shit on him.
keep it going...
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Go, watch, him, play.
I'm from the UK, do you think I wouldn't take an interest in a British player with a growing reputation and watch his games?
Fuck all to do with 'not knowing the Euro scene'.
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On March 09 2013 00:48 Wombat_NI wrote:@Spiral WATCH people play, make judgement. Pretty simple. Nothing inconsistent about it. Scarlett has exceptional mechanics, it's patently obvious other players don't (this isn't aimed at JRecco incidentally). WATCH them. It's like claiming Elfi is just as good as some other foreign Protoss players when he was having equivalent results, when it's apparent within a few games of watching him play that he isn't. Zergs did what was good at the time, certain Zergs are now falling off that that style doesn't work. It's not some anti-Zerg conspiracy we don't 'hate' Zergs. I've been loving Ret's play and Violet's play in the recent IEM, good Zerg players will regain some of their identity if the race functions better in WoL. If JRecco is good, so will he. I hate players being bashed unnecessarily, but equally I hate this blindness to the state of Zerg towards the end of WoL when it WAS a complete joke of a race. HoTS has me hopeful for the future though
But people dont watch thats the point as this thread indicates!!
Jrecco did not just turtle to infestor bl at all. He has good mechanics. Scarlett turtled her face off to get to late game loads but shes different. Why? Because you say so...
Ok but its just not a very strong argument.
Your elfi point shows this. Elfi was good. One of the best foreign protoss. You have an extreme bias towards mythical mechanical ability and dont understand what actually makes a good player.
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On March 09 2013 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote:
Go, watch, him, play.
I'm from the UK, do you think I wouldn't take an interest in a British player with a growing reputation and watch his games?
Fuck all to do with 'not knowing the Euro scene'.
How about this, rather than demanding that people go watch JonnyR play, you find some evidence to back up your claims that he is terrible. You seem to want to make the argument that he is bad, but then demand that other people seek out the information for themselves. If you are going to make the argument, back it up.
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Fredrik Reinius @dignitasNewmaN
So, who do we pick up for HotS? Suggestions?
Details
So they do have money.. no?
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On March 09 2013 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote:
Go, watch, him, play.
I'm from the UK, do you think I wouldn't take an interest in a British player with a growing reputation and watch his games?
Fuck all to do with 'not knowing the Euro scene'.
The guy above you is a gm protoss and has played jrecco a lot. His opinion is much more valuable than yours. You are just parroting on about your opinion with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back it up.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Well I actually never said he was terrible, if people would read my posts, merely was defending the rights of others to have an opinion. If you want my actual opinion, his games showcase an extremely boring style which doesn't give Zerg players the ability to show their skillsets, and this was very much the case in the latter period of WoL.
He's young, and was part-time previously, so his strong period coincided with that era, but may not be linked at all. It may have been his going fulltime was what let him post results. Wait and see.
Ah Spiral so the good players can have more valid opinions. Ok. Idra's opinion of balance must > his then, because he's a noted pro player?
Anyway, done with this thread. Don't wish to derail. I got dragged into the patchzerg discussion against my better judgement.
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Boring style based in what though? You ask others to watch his games but do not yourself. He plays muta ling bling, infestorless all sorts of styles. Again a whole long post with no substance.
If a player who is in gm and has directly played that opponent many times does not have a more valid opinion than you based on your general vague allusions then my opinion on physics is as valid as stephen hawkings.
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On March 08 2013 10:40 Mansef wrote:
Irrelevant player leaves irrelevant team. Nothing to see here.
User was warned for this post
Gotta love TL where nerdlings throw around the word "irrelevant" like it's going out of fashion.
The hate towards specific players in un-called for in these threads. The stats and results speak for themselves with in the last year or so that Zergs have had an easier time breaking into the higher levels but that is no reason to point out or bad mouth certain players, we do not know for sure if some of these players have legitimately just improved.
Lets see what happens in HOTS, legit Zerg newcomers to pro level will be still be able to cut it where as the ones abusing the FOTM race will struggle to compete.
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On March 09 2013 01:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I actually never said he was terrible, if people would read my posts, merely was defending the rights of others to have an opinion. If you want my actual opinion, his games showcase an extremely boring style which doesn't give Zerg players the ability to show their skillsets, and this was very much the case in the latter period of WoL.
He's young, and was part-time previously, so his strong period coincided with that era, but may not be linked at all. It may have been his going fulltime was what let him post results. Wait and see.
Ah Spiral so the good players can have more valid opinions. Ok. Idra's opinion of balance must > his then, because he's a noted pro player?
Anyway, done with this thread. Don't wish to derail. I got dragged into the patchzerg discussion against my better judgement.
I am going to call BS on this and say you did call him bad in the post below(which I read)
On March 08 2013 23:18 Wombat_NI wrote:
Come on Stevez, I know you hate the term patchzerg but really? As we argued the other day, I accepted that 'patchzerg' is often mis-applied to players who are actually good.
Look at Scarlett, top notch creep spread, decent control and spreading, good map awareness, solid macro.
Seriously, where does Recco actually show that he's a good player in terms of actual definable 'strengths'?
You might be correct, I am not sure, but you make zero effort to back up you claim that he is bad and just assume you can imply JonnyR is a “patchzerg” by demanding other people defend him. People are entitled to their opinions, but you need to back up an opinion with something if you are going to put it out there.
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Yeah the roster is looking in pretty bare but does an SC2 squad really need to be big? I mean I think that an SC2 squad with 5 members is a pretty solid number for a team. I mean why do you really need to have more than that unless every player on your roster produces amazing results than sure you would want to have as many top players as you can. But if you are just an average team with results every now and then I don't think your roster needs to be huge.
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On March 09 2013 00:15 GGDeMoN wrote:
JR isnt a Patchzerg, hes doing extremely well in hots and hes a solid player, he will continue to do well in the coming months.
And Cloud your not in a posistion to call him a patchzerg when your terrible at SC2!
Im not Cloud fan but he is not "terrible" at this game. Hes just struggling as any other non korean terrans do. He might not be top notch terr, but hes still pretty good, was pretty good at bw, and i rather watch 10 games of cloud than a single one turtle shit of JR tbh.
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I could see him going to clarity and moving to their team house
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
On March 09 2013 01:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 01:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I actually never said he was terrible, if people would read my posts, merely was defending the rights of others to have an opinion. If you want my actual opinion, his games showcase an extremely boring style which doesn't give Zerg players the ability to show their skillsets, and this was very much the case in the latter period of WoL.
He's young, and was part-time previously, so his strong period coincided with that era, but may not be linked at all. It may have been his going fulltime was what let him post results. Wait and see.
Ah Spiral so the good players can have more valid opinions. Ok. Idra's opinion of balance must > his then, because he's a noted pro player?
Anyway, done with this thread. Don't wish to derail. I got dragged into the patchzerg discussion against my better judgement. I am going to call BS on this and say you did call him bad in the post below(which I read) Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 23:18 Wombat_NI wrote:
Come on Stevez, I know you hate the term patchzerg but really? As we argued the other day, I accepted that 'patchzerg' is often mis-applied to players who are actually good.
Look at Scarlett, top notch creep spread, decent control and spreading, good map awareness, solid macro.
Seriously, where does Recco actually show that he's a good player in terms of actual definable 'strengths'? You might be correct, I am not sure, but you make zero effort to back up you claim that he is bad and just assume you can imply JonnyR is a “patchzerg” by demanding other people defend him. People are entitled to their opinions, but you need to back up an opinion with something if you are going to put it out there.
Some background, I know Steve IRL, and that was something of a continuation of a discussion we were having the other day in which he claimed that there was never an issue with Zerg, which I let's say, disagree with.
I don't think he's terrible, but equally Zerg in that stage was a joke and it became rather hard to tell who was 'actually' good at the game. My dislike of the 'patchzerg' era is that it became so difficult to differentiate between players, they all stylistically looked similar for the most part. I remember Stephano in his ZvP specialist days, he had an aura about him that made you think 'holy shit, this guy's good'. DRG and Leenock have had that aura, Nestea has his legacy. Ret back in the day was known for his 'drone or die' approach to SC2. Life is a monster, and a few others but outside of that.
Hope that cleared my thoughts up. If you want Plansix I'll PM you if I can find the games I have in mind.
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Meanwhile you could instantly tell foreign protoss apart?
Someone like bly got called a patchzerg and yet I havent seen a foreigner use so many bizarre builds as he does. But then hes just a gimmicky player who will get figured out if people actually paid attention to this.
So sad the community in this game. Players arent immune either. Look at cloud idra naniwa etc.
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On March 08 2013 22:12 Brawny wrote:
Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper.
Makes for a damn good read going through the pages though
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On March 09 2013 02:17 MethodSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 22:12 Brawny wrote:
Fuck...this thread is like a bug zapper. Makes for a damn good read going through the pages though
really? personal preference then, i find these discussions about patchzergs or not super f*ing tiring and boring. thankfully after a few sites, you know which usernames are involved in these so you can just skip over most of these posts
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On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat.
Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D.
I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap.
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damn.. can't call him DJ Recco anymore
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap.
That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
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On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
It did go down a dark path of 200/200 armies and everyone having to play super safe. Lucky, HotS added the two things we all need, more abilites to be agressive and more abilites to scout said agression. Bringing back the risk of hatch first and 1 rax > cc will do great things for the game.
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On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc.
Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it
Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all.
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On March 09 2013 02:53 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc. Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all.
Ah the good old days of playing protoss vs terran on smaller maps. "Well, he walled in with no early gas and killed my probe. So it is either: Fast cc, 4 rax or he is boxing all his workers and coming for me. Time to do the safest build possible and pray."
I could deal with it not being like that.
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On March 09 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:53 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 02:51 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 09 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:30 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon. Dude BitByBit was legendary, the fact that people even still bring him up shows just how much hate he received rofl. I actually kind of miss seeing his much maligned scv/marine allins every single game. Artosis' jokes on him were just epic. Agreed though, I guess people could be a little less harsh on jonnyr. Everyone loved BitbyBit, if only how amusing it was to watch him to the same thing over and over. He alone was proof that close positions were totally busted in all ways. Oh close positions on Metaloplis, how I loved you justifying me going one base colossi every game. I will never defend the era of the “ggLords + winfestors”, but the hate in the community towards zerg players got way out of control. A lot of these players didn’t do anything and likely didn’t like building 25 infestors per game, but it as how the game was at the time. The community needs really clamp down on that stuff and not blame the player for playing the game they are presented with. Unless they are an ass-hat about it. Then we can hate on them for being an ass-hat. Close positions surely were busted when you had someone opening with an aggro build and the other guy opening with a hatch first instead of his own type of aggro. I wouldn't say that was a balance problem with the game, but rather with the mindset of zerg players. Imo you could link that mindset to the influence that was spread by players such as Idra/Artosis about how you should play "macro games" every game, or else you're a no skilled cheesy noob :D. I used to view the game like that until I figured out just how wrong it is in SC2. That was a BW mindset, where the maps were huge and the game naturally favored big sprawling macro games. SC2 just wasn't built with that in mind. The goal was clearly to have players trading blows asap. That mindset had the game patched to help the aforementioned 'macro play' which gave us horrible games imo. I like the balance between aggression and defense, greed and safe builds etc. Yep, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. The game was changed into something it was never built to be, and it has suffered for it Still, you have to admit it was a little too ridiculous at launch. It was insane trying to figure out how to deal with so many different builds and it ended up just being supremely frustrating. It all makes sense now, but back in the day it didn't at all. Ah the good old days of playing protoss vs terran on smaller maps. "Well, he walled in with no early gas and killed my probe. So it is either: Fast cc, 4 rax or he is boxing all his workers and coming for me. Time to do the safest build possible and pray." I could deal with it not being like that.
Indeed, it was a little too crazy trying to figure out what people were up to. But not like protoss didn't have insane aggressive options as well, cough cough 1 base void rays. Do you remember immortal busts from the beta, shivers. Or 1 food roaches......just lol.
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Good continuation to Dignitas. I used to like this team
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On March 09 2013 02:01 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
Meanwhile you could instantly tell foreign protoss apart?
Someone like bly got called a patchzerg and yet I havent seen a foreigner use so many bizarre builds as he does. But then hes just a gimmicky player who will get figured out if people actually paid attention to this.
So sad the community in this game. Players arent immune either. Look at cloud idra naniwa etc.
That's obviously a missuse of the patchzerg reference. It's like argueing you shouldn't call apples apples, because somebody dares to call apples oranges.
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His play wasn't anything special and it was pretty clear he benefited a lot from the Queen patch, at least he has some success during wol last year.
He has a shitty attitude and is incredibly bm, I don't like the kid as a result.
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On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him.
Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
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On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
16/17. He's probably done his GCSEs which are our equivalent of the American highschool diploma and is currently full time iirc
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On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now.
Ok, I didn’t know he wasn’t even a legal adult. I am all for kids competing for things, but they might not be mature enough to be on a team and competing that this level.
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I think mods need to start banning harder for people player bashing in threads like this. I have player bashed before, i will admit it, but there are some just straight up dumbass comments on the first page like "LOL what a patch zerg good riddance" etc. that should not be allowed at all. i think temp ban is not severe enough when people are coming into "player leaves x team" or "player joins x team" threads and just to call them patchzergs or what have you
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On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways.
He dropped out, if I recall correctly.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 09 2013 04:18 Wombat_NI wrote:
16/17. He's probably done his GCSEs which are our equivalent of the American highschool diploma and is currently full time iirc
I'm older than him? damn...
GSCEs though.. lol.
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He's Scottish. They dont do GCSE's.
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On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly.
I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The NFL doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school.
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"lol ok" - sounds really REALLY pro around here
think this says it all with the way this 'industry' is going in regards contracts, without knowing too much about team management sounds like kids giving contracts to kids . . . but im old so . . im irrelevant.
as a brit ive only seen a few games of REcco but they did look pretty good but where has he been since . . i simply havent seen hiom in a game or even a cast by the few who regular cast games for that mytube thing.
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On March 09 2013 04:31 c0sm0naut wrote:
I think mods need to start banning harder for people player bashing in threads like this. I have player bashed before, i will admit it, but there are some just straight up dumbass comments on the first page like "LOL what a patch zerg good riddance" etc. that should not be allowed at all. i think temp ban is not severe enough when people are coming into "player leaves x team" or "player joins x team" threads and just to call them patchzergs or what have you
You must be one of those with the mindset that if you read no evil, there is no evil. It's not as embarrassing for the players that get buffs that help them overcome stronger players via a patch as it is for the publisher of the game that put those changes in.
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On March 09 2013 04:52 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 04:31 c0sm0naut wrote:
I think mods need to start banning harder for people player bashing in threads like this. I have player bashed before, i will admit it, but there are some just straight up dumbass comments on the first page like "LOL what a patch zerg good riddance" etc. that should not be allowed at all. i think temp ban is not severe enough when people are coming into "player leaves x team" or "player joins x team" threads and just to call them patchzergs or what have you You must be one of those with the mindset that if you read no evil, there is no evil. It's not as embarrassing for the players that get buffs that help them overcome stronger players via a patch as it is for the publisher of the game that put those changes in.
It doesn’t really have anything to do with the patch. It is more about clamping down on comments that are clearly malicious and provide no facts to back them up. That kind of stuff is just people being jerks and assuming other people will agree with them.
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On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school.
Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16.
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On March 09 2013 04:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 04:52 Baarn wrote:On March 09 2013 04:31 c0sm0naut wrote:
I think mods need to start banning harder for people player bashing in threads like this. I have player bashed before, i will admit it, but there are some just straight up dumbass comments on the first page like "LOL what a patch zerg good riddance" etc. that should not be allowed at all. i think temp ban is not severe enough when people are coming into "player leaves x team" or "player joins x team" threads and just to call them patchzergs or what have you You must be one of those with the mindset that if you read no evil, there is no evil. It's not as embarrassing for the players that get buffs that help them overcome stronger players via a patch as it is for the publisher of the game that put those changes in. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the patch. It is more about clamping down on comments that are clearly malicious and provide no facts to back them up. That kind of stuff is just people being jerks and assuming other people will agree with them.
Well I guess people have been jerks since August of last year calling the guy the thread is about a patchzerg. It's unfortunate he fell into this category. Should TL start banning everyone since this post and maybe before? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361897#9
Anyway I don't wish to discuss this any further. Hopefully things work for out for him and he can find another team.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Hm, thought the Scots did GCSEs, I am aware their education is a bit different than the rest of the UK, but thought that was more regarding university. I have learned something today!
I'm with Plansix actually. Feel bad for being a dick about a guy who is pursuing his drea
.
I'm not against players being criticised but it's the tone and smugness of it that is annoying. The most vocal player bashers invariably are those with the least clue about the game. It's becoming like 'real' sports where obese armchair dwellers insult the abilities and dedication of athletes.
Starcraft is really fucking hard to play, if we want to keep a scene that isn't poisonous to sift through, then we should post better. I include myself in this.
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Scottish people can go to university aged 16 if they have done their highers with good results( equivalent of AS levels) otherwise they do advanced highers.. For this reason scottish degrees are 4 years instead of 3. If you have good a levels you can go straight to 2nd year at a Scottish uni as well.
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On March 09 2013 05:00 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school. Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16.
The same applies in the US and most states will not let you drop out until you are over 16 years of age, but you do not get a diploma. I stand by may statement that teams should not be signed anyone who is underage/has dropped out of standard public education. Every players should have finished at least the high school(or what every that countries version of high school is called) before they are signed to a team. Players cannot be a progamer for life and not one should be dropping out of school to become one.
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Another patch zerg fades back into obscurity. I can't wait until the queen of the patch trannys Scarlett disappears too. Shouldn't take more then a few months after HOTS is released.
User was banned for this post.
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On March 09 2013 04:49 StatixEx wrote:
"lol ok" - sounds really REALLY pro around here
think this says it all with the way this 'industry' is going in regards contracts, without knowing too much about team management sounds like kids giving contracts to kids . . . but im old so . . im irrelevant.
as a brit ive only seen a few games of REcco but they did look pretty good but where has he been since . . i simply havent seen hiom in a game or even a cast by the few who regular cast games for that mytube thing.
I'm not 100% sure that's a true story. REcco got called out by at least 10 players on Twitter, and as people have been saying in this thread, is known to be super BM.
We should wait to see what Dignitas says.
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On March 09 2013 05:16 SplashMorTaL wrote:
Another patch zerg fades back into obscurity. I can't wait until the queen of the patch trannys Scarlett disappears too. Shouldn't take more then a few months after HOTS is released.
I hope mods permanently ban this clown for such a comment, good god thats disgusting! How sad we have such members in such an epic community.
Anyways, GL to jonnyrecco, think he has to change up his attitude a bit if he wants to be picked up by a popular team.
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On March 09 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:00 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school. Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16. The same applies in the US and most states will not let you drop out until you are over 16 years of age, but you do not get a diploma. I stand by may statement that teams should not be signed anyone who is underage/has dropped out of standard public education. Every players should have finished at least the high school(or what every that countries version of high school is called) before they are signed to a team. Players cannot be a progamer for life and not one should be dropping out of school to become one.
100% disagree with this.
Whether the players graduated or not is literally none of your, or anybodies business. Teams have the right to sign whoever they want, and what the players decide to do with their education is their choice only - and again, none of your business. It should remain this way and catering to your idea would likely be more harmful than good. Not everyone gets the chance to finish standard education, and some of those people might actually want to try their hands at esports, and now they can't because someone on TL forums feels that they should have a higher education first?
No thanks, bad idea.
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Those mods having a field day on this thread lol
I thinkI've only seen one of johnny recos games before, so I don't actually know a lot about this guy.
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On March 09 2013 05:25 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 05:00 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school. Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16. The same applies in the US and most states will not let you drop out until you are over 16 years of age, but you do not get a diploma. I stand by may statement that teams should not be signed anyone who is underage/has dropped out of standard public education. Every players should have finished at least the high school(or what every that countries version of high school is called) before they are signed to a team. Players cannot be a progamer for life and not one should be dropping out of school to become one. 100% disagree with this. Whether the players graduated or not is literally none of your, or anybodies business. Teams have the right to sign whoever they want, and what the players decide to do with their education is their choice only - and again, none of your business. It should remain this way and catering to your idea would likely be more harmful than good. Not everyone gets the chance to finish standard education, and some of those people might actually want to try their hands at esports, and now they can't because someone on TL forums feels that they should have a higher education first? No thanks, bad idea.
Its not the TL forums, is the rest of the competitive sports world. There is no professional sports team that you can join having dropped out of high school. The most successful sport in the US, the NFL, requires that all players complete at least 3 years of college. The NBA requires you to have finished high school and you cannot be drafted for one year after graduating.
Almost all professional sports embrace the idea that they should not be used as an excuse for kids to drop out of school and require them to finish at least their basic education.
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People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase.
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On March 09 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:00 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school. Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16. The same applies in the US and most states will not let you drop out until you are over 16 years of age, but you do not get a diploma. I stand by may statement that teams should not be signed anyone who is underage/has dropped out of standard public education. Every players should have finished at least the high school(or what every that countries version of high school is called) before they are signed to a team. Players cannot be a progamer for life and not one should be dropping out of school to become one.
You didnt read my post. He didnt drop out. He finished. Its a different system. He has finished high school. In the uk there is a second tier of high school education which is non compulsory and only useful if you are moving onto university. He has the equivalent of graduated from high school.
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On March 09 2013 05:56 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 05:00 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On March 09 2013 04:49 Plansix wrote:On March 09 2013 04:32 Antylamon wrote:On March 09 2013 04:11 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 03:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 08 2013 16:28 gabbegubbe wrote:
If my name was John Bain, I would sign him. Why would I sign a foreigner with a reputation for BM and very few results when I can get a Korean that can live in my team-house for the same price or cheaper? He's also way too young, I couldn't even send him anywhere and I'd have to sign a contract with his Dad not him. That's what'll be going through the heads of some recruiters right now. Yeah speaking of that, shouldn't he be in school or something? How old is he anyways. He dropped out, if I recall correctly. I am really not in support of any team signing anyone who has dropped out of high school. The nfl doesn’t sign anyone unless they complete 3 years of college and I think teams should always demand that people complete high school. Its a different system here. He is not American. Scottish do standard grades then highers and advanced highers. Then you go to university. He has finished his schooling (ie at least standard grades) as you are not allowed to leave until you do and are at least 16. The same applies in the US and most states will not let you drop out until you are over 16 years of age, but you do not get a diploma. I stand by may statement that teams should not be signed anyone who is underage/has dropped out of standard public education. Every players should have finished at least the high school(or what every that countries version of high school is called) before they are signed to a team. Players cannot be a progamer for life and not one should be dropping out of school to become one. You didnt read my post. He didnt drop out. He finished. Its a different system. He has finished high school. In the uk there is a second tier of high school education which is non compulsory and only useful if you are moving onto university. He has the equivalent of graduated from high school.
Ah, your post was not 100% clear on the part that you would only go to the second tier of school if you were going to university. I assumed that not going to that higher level was the same as of dropping out. Not problems then, beyond being a minor, which is not huge.
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Sorry to see JohnyRecco wasn't satisfied with his team =/ sounds like he didn't benefit too much from Dignitas. Hopefully he can find a team that fits his needs and give us some good games in HotS =)
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On March 08 2013 13:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:59 Wuster wrote:On March 08 2013 12:41 soiii wrote:
Seems to be a bit much to ask for more than travel support with his below mediocre results lately. He also seemed to have problems adopting to hots so I am not very surprised by Dignitas not wanting to invest heavily in him. Sad for him tho. I haven't followed him at all since TSL (I don't follow foreign events in general), so that would make sense if his shape is dropping. But it really seems like Dignitas is not wanting to invest heavily in SC2 has just as much to do with it as anything. So basically, if every a team doesn't keep every single player then it's clearly about the team dying or SC2 dying. Wonderful logic.
Did you read the OP or my post?
The OP specifically mentions that Dignitas stated in an interview they weren't sure if they wanted to keep investing in SC2. They currently have 4 players on roster. If you remember, Tefel joining the team was 'big news' mainly because people were worried why they were just losing players; so Tefel broke the streak so to speak.
My logic seems reasonable given the facts.*
Also, no one said anything about SC2 or Dignitas dying, that's just you trying to find things to get upset about.
Edit: Op has since been updated to remove the interview reference and add a response from Dignitas about expanding during Hots.
But to say I'm skeptical that the interview was removed in the 10 minutes it took you to overreact to my post is an understatement to say the least.
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GL to recco, such a awesome name i love Starship Troopers. Anyway i haven't really seen him perform since tsl or wcs Europe.
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On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase.
He's from Scotland, and wanting to have the Scottish flag next to his name is BM o_O? I see the English flag everywhere as well (e.g. World Cup Football I think?), so that's also BM then? How can you be insulted if someone just wants his own flag (yeah I know Scotland is part of UK).
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On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase.
This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish).
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On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish).
And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD
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On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD
While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck.
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On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck.
Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they
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So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together.
GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future.
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On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future.
I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!.
There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!".
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On March 09 2013 08:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future. I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!. There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!".
STOP WINNING BY DOING SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE. It makes me upset ;_;
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On March 09 2013 08:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future. I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!. There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!".
TB there are plenty of forums where we're not mad.
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a rising tide lifts all boats, you can't go looking for the boat that got lifted the highest because even if you do all your measurements right and find it who gives a fuck
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On March 09 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 00:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 09 2013 00:04 Pwnzer wrote:
This entire thread is a shithole and everyone is contributing. More than half of it isn't even commenting on what the thread was intended to discuss, I'm actually surprised there isn't a mod note yet.
Good Luck JRecc in finding a new team. Hopefully we get a statement from Dignitas soon so we can actually get two sides to the story. Is it not natural progression for people to speculate on why he wasn't renewed for another contract? Of course, but that doesn’t mean everyone should be a jerk about it. I personally hate the term “patch-zerg” because its thrown around for almost every zerg in the scene at this point. Even BitbyBitPrime didn’t get this much hate in the era of GomTvT, and he was the scrub of scrubs. I don’t know much about JonnyR, but a lot of the stuff in this thread is totally unwarranted and just people jumping on the hate-wagon.
He wasn't the scrub of scrubs. The issue at hand is that this guy came up after the patch, he was not a large international scene player before the patch. Now, mind you, I do agree some zergs get undue hate. The issue with JRE here is that he has not produced any meaningful results post TSL and has yet to show prowess after the infestor's nerf. That said, even more important to this subject is the fact that JRE has become the poster child for being a "Patch-zerg," due to him not being huge in England beforehand, unlike other zergs that happened to come to a head during that period of time. No one had heard of this guy it seemed, unlike people like VortiX or Snute who had both been tearing up their individual scenes, JRE was someone who seemed to depend on infestor play to win and, before the infestor power surge, had not shown the same brilliant play like in TSL. That said, yes, most of this hate is completely undue.
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On March 09 2013 06:56 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. He's from Scotland, and wanting to have the Scottish flag next to his name is BM o_O? I see the English flag everywhere as well (e.g. World Cup Football I think?), so that's also BM then? How can you be insulted if someone just wants his own flag (yeah I know Scotland is part of UK).
While I don't disagree with your point, the World Cup isn't a good example as that is actually the English national team not a UK team.
Each component of the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) have their own national teams.
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On March 09 2013 08:12 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck. Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they
At the end of the day, it's a flag. It's just quite misinformed and incorrect to say that not using the UK Flag "is an insult to all English people". I think some people need to think about what they're going to say before they say it.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
On March 09 2013 08:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future. I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!. There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!".
I don't see it as a dig at the players, but oftentimes growing frustration with the gamestate and they get some of the residual heat for it.
Do you actually read people actually demanding that players use sub-optimal strategies? I sure as hell don't for the most part, and I'm on here a lot. No, as a Protoss player I hated seeing immortal/sentry allins beating even ZvP specialists at least once nearly every series, or Puma crushing MC with 1/1/1s at an old IEM. I hated some of the monotonous games we had to watch for months on end.
If a style is terrible to watch as spectators, if anything it's worthwhile voicing opinions about it in a non-abusive, reasoned manner.
Would Heart of the Swarm be anything like it is in its current state if it wasn't for community feedback? Even if it's not a position you endorse, perhaps the enduring nature and resonance for many of the 'Lings of Liberty' thread is actually something that is worth paying attention to?
But yeah, let's not listen to the viewership and the playerbase, that's how you sustain a scene.
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On March 09 2013 10:17 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future. I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!. There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!". I don't see it as a dig at the players, but oftentimes growing frustration with the gamestate and they get some of the residual heat for it. Do you actually read people actually demanding that players use sub-optimal strategies? I sure as hell don't for the most part, and I'm on here a lot. No, as a Protoss player I hated seeing immortal/sentry allins beating even ZvP specialists at least once nearly every series, or Puma crushing MC with 1/1/1s at an old IEM. I hated some of the monotonous games we had to watch for months on end. If a style is terrible to watch as spectators, if anything it's worthwhile voicing opinions about it in a non-abusive, reasoned manner. Would Heart of the Swarm be anything like it is in its current state if it wasn't for community feedback? Even if it's not a position you endorse, perhaps the enduring nature and resonance for many of the 'Lings of Liberty' thread is actually something that is worth paying attention to? But yeah, let's not listen to the viewership and the playerbase, that's how you sustain a scene.
There is a huge difference between complaining how a mu is being played and then calling the player doing what he should be doing a patch zerg. No one is saying bl/corr/infestor was fun to watch what people are saying is it's a joke to insult him for doing what is best...
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On March 09 2013 08:58 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:So many angry noobs in this thread. "Patch zerg"...jesus christ. Pull yourselves together. GL JRecco. Sorry to hear you weren't treated as well as you thought you should be. Wish you success in the future. I fucking love how it's somehow the players fault that Blizzard screwed the pooch on balance. OH NO, HE'S WINNING USING THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY, YOU'D BETTER STOP THAT THIS INSTANT OR WE'LL BE MAD ON FORUMS!. There are times I want to take a big part of this community, grab it by the scruff of the neck, shove it in front of a mirror and yell "LOOK AT YOURSELVES, JUST LOOK!".
This similarly bothers me, but it's the same in a lot of sports. There was a period of time in basketball where lots of people hated the Spurs because they were "boring to watch" and Tim Duncan didn't show "enough emotion". In American Football this year you had players and coaches complaining the Patriots offense used "unfair clock management tricks" even though these tricks were perfectly legal.
Regardless of the sport/players, people will find some reason to whine, even if it isn't the team's fault for playing/acting in a way that gives them an advantage. Every team/player should do what it takes to win in the legal limits of the game. JR I think really bothered people because he was BM, used the most abusive strategies possible, and said strategies involved watching 50 minute games where 1 control group of 30 Broodlords and Infestors would follow 1 medivac around the map. Aside from the BM though, it's the game that allowed him to use this strategy that has the problem, not him.
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On March 09 2013 08:12 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck. Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they
So coming out and saying "I'm Scottish not British" playing the bullshit political card (this is a kid trying to talk politics) is entirely acceptable?
As for the first post, I'm actually Irish.
Just shut up.
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Northern Ireland24402 Posts
Fuck off man. It's bad enough living in Northern Ireland where we have to put up with nationalist nonsense on a day-to-day without having it on Team Liquid.
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On March 09 2013 14:08 Wombat_NI wrote:
Fuck off man. It's bad enough living in Northern Ireland where we have to put up with nationalist nonsense on a day-to-day without having it on Team Liquid.
I just saw in the name of the father starring 3 time academy award winning actor, daniel day-lewis and i must say, it's a really touchy subject and that I understand your frustration with people talking about that stuff here.
especially if its in-correct.
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On March 09 2013 09:04 Deleuze wrote:
TB there are plenty of forums where we're not mad.
In my experience this is not true.
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Jonny REcco is a good player...
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase.
I dont remember JRecco ever being bm. Can anyone elaborate?
Also, your argument is a joke (hopefully).
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On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish).
How is it an insult to all English people, he asked for his national flag, not a burning St. Georges cross.
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On March 09 2013 15:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 09:04 Deleuze wrote:
TB there are plenty of forums where we're not mad.
In my experience this is not true.
All right, you might be correct on that. But try to remember there are those of use who don't hate on players for playing to win. It is just a LOT OF EFFORT to shout down haters in the community.
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On March 09 2013 12:25 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:12 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck. Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they So coming out and saying "I'm Scottish not British" playing the bullshit political card (this is a kid trying to talk politics) is entirely acceptable? As for the first post, I'm actually Irish. Just shut up.
He didn't demand the scottish flag, he told the TL admins he didn't care and so they gave him the scottish flag, presumably for some braveheart vibe? using that as a reason to hate upon him is silly
and @Wombat I've never seen you at an i-Series or any british event, so how can you claim that JR has no mechanics to speak of? Just because youve taken a bit more interest in him in a few online events doesn't mean that you're suddenly a world-leading expert on 1. how zerg mechanics work and 2. how JR matches up to other zerg players in the scene
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Who gives a fuck about who comes from where anyway, such a pointless argument
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Stop with the useless derail about nationality. It's not relevant and it's ridiculous. Thanks.
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Whats with all the people dropping the "patch zerg" bombs all over the place, seriously its extreme disrespect to someones hard work to be classed as a "patch *insert race here".
Guy performed well at UKWC, unfortunately it seems there has been some issues going on here and it doesn't look pretty for dignitas.
Hopefully this brings new potential to both parties involved.
As a fellow Scot, charge on JR
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On March 09 2013 12:25 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 08:12 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck. Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they So coming out and saying "I'm Scottish not British" playing the bullshit political card (this is a kid trying to talk politics) is entirely acceptable? As for the first post, I'm actually Irish. Just shut up.
How is it unacceptable for us to have our own flag next to our name? instead of the Union Jack?...
Watch Tennis, when Andy Murray is winning he is considered "British", when he losing he is considered "Scottish".
Its bullshit to call it unacceptable for us to have a Scottish flag.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 10 2013 04:48 MastaKilla wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 12:25 Mackus wrote:On March 09 2013 08:12 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:57 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 07:08 dani` wrote:On March 09 2013 07:05 gasmeter wrote:On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. This is one of the most outrageous things I've ever heard (by the way, I'm Scottish). And ironically, he selected 'England' as his country while you selected 'United Kingdom' xD While I realise the irony, I just don't give a fuck. Uhm it was obviously directed at him seeing how he demands a Scottish person to accept the flag of United Kingdom, while he himself just uses England whereas he then also should use United Kingdom, like you do. Them Scotts surely are aggressive lads aren't they So coming out and saying "I'm Scottish not British" playing the bullshit political card (this is a kid trying to talk politics) is entirely acceptable? As for the first post, I'm actually Irish. Just shut up. How is it unacceptable for us to have our own flag next to our name? instead of the Union Jack?... Watch Tennis, when Andy Murray is winning he is considered "British", when he losing he is considered "Scottish". Its bullshit to call it unacceptable for us to have a Scottish flag.
Way to totally ignore 2 posts above yours telling everyone to stop. Why keep feeding a flame war?
As for Jrecco, any hints or anything regarding where he might be going? I always enjoed watching him play, and remember the series vs whitera where he kinda blew up into a big name.
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I am very interested who they are going to get in his stead, Naniwa hinted on his stream a couple of weeks ago that he would soon join a team.
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Naniwa will not join dignitas
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On March 10 2013 05:05 SpurvL wrote:Naniwa will not join dignitas
are you his mom?
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I really hope JR gets picked up by another team soon, he's a talented guy that should be a good addition to any team.
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This guy is not going to make it big in the future. There are plenty of good zerg players who are about billion times more talented than he is.
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On March 10 2013 08:05 mongmong wrote:
This guy is not going to make it big in the future. There are plenty of good zerg players who are about billion times more talented than he is.
I agree he probably won't get anywhere, but still he's about a billion times more talented than you either way.
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On March 09 2013 06:56 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 05:42 Mackus wrote:
People keep mentioning his BM and I recall during TSL he demanded the Scottish flag next to his name rather than the Union Jack which is an insult to all English people, an effective way to alienate your fanbase. He's from Scotland, and wanting to have the Scottish flag next to his name is BM o_O? I see the English flag everywhere as well (e.g. World Cup Football I think?), so that's also BM then? How can you be insulted if someone just wants his own flag (yeah I know Scotland is part of UK).
Lol i dont like jrecco at all but bashing him for wanting scottish flag is just beyond ridiculous.
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On March 10 2013 08:09 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 08:05 mongmong wrote:
This guy is not going to make it big in the future. There are plenty of good zerg players who are about billion times more talented than he is. I agree he probably won't get anywhere, but still he's about a billion times more talented than you either way.
He's also trillion times more talented than you are .
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 10 2013 08:12 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 08:09 cydial wrote:On March 10 2013 08:05 mongmong wrote:
This guy is not going to make it big in the future. There are plenty of good zerg players who are about billion times more talented than he is. I agree he probably won't get anywhere, but still he's about a billion times more talented than you either way. He's also trillion times more talented than you are .
Aww, did I really get under your skin? Trolls are cute when they can't think of their own retort.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 10 2013 08:33 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 08:12 mongmong wrote:On March 10 2013 08:09 cydial wrote:On March 10 2013 08:05 mongmong wrote:
This guy is not going to make it big in the future. There are plenty of good zerg players who are about billion times more talented than he is. I agree he probably won't get anywhere, but still he's about a billion times more talented than you either way. He's also trillion times more talented than you are . Aww, did I really get under your skin? Trolls are cute when they can't think of their own retort.
Isnt you the troll here? and isnt it you that cant think of anything of your own?
From an outside perspective it looks likr you are the troll baiting for reactions and doing it by copying what he said.
Wait... am I also getting trolled by you now...
User was warned for this post
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Calling yourself Johnny Reco is like calling yourself God. Even Boxer would not be able to live up to the name. It's sacrilegious to name yourself after a character in such a awesome 90's movie. I saw it while making out with a chick in the theaters. Was he even born yet? Don't ruin my memories man!
As for the player, all I know is he is young and one of many mid-level pro Zergs out there - its going to be hard for him to make a name for himself (esp with HoTS). Good luck to him but hopefully he has long-terms plans to complete his education.
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Shame, nice guy in person.
Good move though, would of been silly to sign the contract.
gl matey
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Moderators are on the warpath! I like SCII and I like everyone in SC Community! I have nothing controversial to say whatsoever!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 11 2013 02:15 dirtydurb82 wrote:
Moderators are on the warpath! I like SCII and I like everyone in SC Community! I have nothing controversial to say whatsoever!
LOL. But no you don't have to worry, they just ban/warn people who are being dicks to each other, unlike in Blizzard's forums where that happens regularly.
I'll remember Jonnyrecco for beating Naniwa. It shows he has some potential, or Naniwa just was never good against zerg. Hopefully he finds a way back in Hots!
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On March 11 2013 02:26 radscorpion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:15 dirtydurb82 wrote:
Moderators are on the warpath! I like SCII and I like everyone in SC Community! I have nothing controversial to say whatsoever! LOL. But no you don't have to worry, they just ban/warn people who are being dicks to each other, unlike in Blizzard's forums where that happens regularly. I'll remember Jonnyrecco for beating Naniwa. It shows he has some potential, or Naniwa just was never good against zerg. Hopefully he finds a way back in Hots!
Actually it just has to be off topic but not offensive!
I wonder what Jr will do now...
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Cloud is pleased about this.
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and was replied to with "lol ok" from Team Dignitas Managing Director Michael "ODEE" O'Dell.
professionalism in esports at its finest.
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On March 09 2013 08:21 IPA wrote:
So many angry noobs
This should replace "Community" in the banner up top...
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If what JRecco said is true it sheds a very bad light on Dignitas. We haven't heard the other side of the story and there isn't evidence against what he's said, so we can use the principle of charity to try and understand what's happened (in its narrowest sense, the goal of this principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available).
Therefore at time of writing, at the very least we must say that Dignitas management handled the situation in an unprofessional manner, given the language used with a player in such a serious matter. At the very worst we can deduce from JRecco's account that he was misled or lied to about a potential salary. Surely then based on the accounts available to us we must side with the "little guy" in the situation, and not the business who seem to have at best treated him unprofessionally, and at worse reneged on a promised salary?
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This thread is a fuckin pit
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so Dignitas arent the good guys everyone claims them to be. Glad someone exposed them. A couple people get a free ride in this community from being hyped as good guys when in truth , they are all the same. Business drives business. So people do business things, Dignitas didnt find johnny worth being paid a salary, johnny didnt like that and left. Odee going "lol" if true, is pretty disrespectful . Im glad i did not donate when his top floor burnt down. Total biscuit can go ride somebody else's dick.
User was warned for this post
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I met Jonnyrecco at Assembly Summer 2012 and he was an awesome guy, one of the people I ended up hanging out with the most at the event. I'm wondering where everyone's getting all these "bm" comments from, he was one of the nicest / humblest guys. All I've heard is he sometimes whines about imbalance in games but has the way he's done it been particularly bm or something?
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In my exp, all progamers rage, but irl they are quite the nice persons =)
Only Satiini is an jerk imo.
I meet recco at wcs eu finals and hes a great guy !
Most of the progamers i worked with rages yea,
but that dosnt make em have a bad personality =)
Dont hate that much on him,
and u cant blame him for leaving dig, if they promised him stuff they didnt act on anyway.
Gl to recco in the future =)
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On March 11 2013 14:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
This thread is a fuckin pit
Yeah I've been looking on with a sense of schadenfreude for a few pages now as more and more people get sucked in. Oh well.
Look, the kid's young, young players carry themselves poorly and are generally very emotional. I'll reiterate that it bothers me far less to hear about "BM" from a kid that still has to mature as a player and a person than from Italian players old enough to have retired (or from elsewhere of course).
Personally I think he should've never been promised a salary the way he's playing, that might've avoided a lot of this hassle. He's always been a talent, but needs to come through with results first. It's not hard to see where his options are and he's unlikely to get a better offer elsewhere.
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LOL PATCHZERGS POST NERFHAMMER DON'T DESERVE SALARIES
is the general attitude people here seems to have. man oh man there are a lot of bitter guys on these forums
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I think you have to be a really top player to be Pro like actually paid a salary to play, I can't see how Dignitas wouldn't just lose money if they paid every player
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I don't think a few good (I daresay lucky) showings solicit a salary. However, the way Dignitas management handled the issue was pretty rude.
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I get the honour of being the only jerk irl :D hahaha you should just maybe really meet the players to know who are the real jerks in real life :D
dont worry buddy I'll still meet and greet you if we ever come across....
On March 11 2013 15:15 Henrik.Roikjer wrote:
In my exp, all progamers rage, but irl they are quite the nice persons =)
Only Satiini is an jerk imo.
I meet recco at wcs eu finals and hes a great guy !
Most of the progamers i worked with rages yea,
but that dosnt make em have a bad personality =)
Dont hate that much on him,
and u cant blame him for leaving dig, if they promised him stuff they didnt act on anyway.
Gl to recco in the future =)
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Haha, you were never a jerk to me. Mind you, that may be because I wasn't your opponent ;p
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hope he gets picked up soon
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Good luck to him. I've been seeing a lot of his games being casted recently and he's entertaining.
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EPT
