We regret to inform you that we have decided to cancel our next public competition event, IPL 6 at The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, March 28-31. When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. You should also know that we are working on finding a new home for the IPL team and IGN will continue to broadcast partner tournaments in the future.
The past two years have been incredible, and we thank every one of the millions of people who tuned in to our events and coverage over that time. Your support has been tremendous and we could not have done this without you. We went from $5,000 online StarCraft 2 tournaments to one of the world’s best and largest eSports events.
We sincerely apologize to our biggest fans who planned to be out in Vegas with us. If you already purchased tickets for the events and/or reserved a hotel room at The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, you can receive a full refund by following the instructions that apply:
Cancel a Hotel Stay at The Cosmopolitan – Information pertaining to hotel room refunds will be posted on ign.com on Wednesday, March 6.
Tickets that were purchased via Credit Card – Tickets purchased with a credit card will automatically be canceled and the money will be refunded to your card – this can take up to 10 days to process. If you have not received your refund by 3/15/13, please contact The Cosmopolitan Box Office at 702.698.7778
Tickets that were purchased with Cash at The Cosmopolitan – Tickets purchased with Cash must be refunded in person at the Concierge during normal business hours.
Again, thank you for your support of the IPL, and we hope you will stay with us for the next exciting chapter.
"Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
The past two years have been incredible, and we thank every one of the millions of people who tuned in to our events and coverage over that time. Your support has been tremendous and we could not have done this without you. We went from $5,000 online StarCraft 2 tournaments to one of the world’s best and largest eSports events.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
The past two years have been incredible, and we thank every one of the millions of people who tuned in to our events and coverage over that time. Your support has been tremendous and we could not have done this without you. We went from $5,000 online StarCraft 2 tournaments to one of the world’s best and largest eSports events.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
"We would rather be paid large amounts of money to do something that used to be ran at a loss"
More news at Eleven. Riot have seriously over-infalted peoples expectations of ESPORTS.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
I was wondering about that as well.
it could be Riot not putting up as much money as the did last time with there big NA event running atm. The main reason still would have more to do with the IGN sale I would say tho.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
The League of Legends creators made their own league. Kinda turned things around for other tournament organizers.
IGN selling IPL -> IPL cancelled.. makes me believe that those "potential big buyers" they were talking about in a statement are seemingly not so interested. Sad to hear, I always liked Kevin Knocke
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:Again, thank you for your support of the IPL, and we hope you will stay with us for the next exciting chapter.
Really? I can't see many people buying tickets to any future IPL events after getting screwed like this.
I really hope they get someone to fund them. IPTL is absolutely amazing since they added the amateur and contender division. The foreign scene was really missing good team leagues to scout new talent.
Best of luck with finding future sponsors, and I am certain this is not the last we've seen of the IPL series. I look forward to attending one of your events in the future. I haven't missed one yet. :3
yeah IGN lost so much credibility cancelling such a big event and screwing up so many people, I highly doubt they will get any support for eSport-related events in the future.
On March 05 2013 10:03 SpecialistSc wrote: this is to be expected... nobody is interested in watching sc2 any more... sad turn of events but it is how it is
announcement by monday, called it - i should get into that esports journalism tweeting business
wonder whats the numbers behind the jab at publisher-ran tournaments tho, and if they actually have evidence of losing (potential) viewers or it's just new owners saying they dont want to participate in competition where competitiors dont need to ever make profit.
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote: Again, thank you for your support of the IPL, and we hope you will stay with us for the next exciting chapter.
On March 05 2013 10:03 SpecialistSc wrote: this is to be expected... nobody is interested in watching sc2 any more... sad turn of events but it is how it is
this doesn't have much to do with sc2, other than sc2 being played with LoL
On March 05 2013 10:00 boxerfred wrote: IGN selling IPL -> IPL cancelled.. makes me believe that those "potential big buyers" they were talking about in a statement are seemingly not so interested. Sad to hear, I always liked Kevin Knocke
i wouldn't be so sure about this one. If anyone had bought IPL, they would have to immediately take responsibility for IPL 6. Basically what im saying is it could have went down like this: "hey big shot, you want to buy ipl? cool. by the way there's a big tourney called IPL 6 at Vegas in like a month. Here's the bill."
The potential buyers might want to change IPL's whole business model and may have thought a live tourney of this caliber is just too expensive to run right off the bat. But time will tell, and we'll see if theres anybody actually interested in buying ipl.
I dont really get this though. they posted viewership in the 2012/2013 shift and bragged about their viewership. Now they say that there is to much competition?
Well, a business suicide by cancelling imo. If they are selling IGN they wont get much after this fasade.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
This is really sad news, I always felt the IPL live events were rly cool Additionally this sucks a lot for the mapmaking community since IPL was about to introduce some new maps...
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote: When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
Hm... Blizz and Valve have their own tournaments but those aren't essential for the scenes to exists I think... I don't know all about LoL but I guess it's about that game so... LoL/Riot killing esport. Can we stop saying that LoL can only be good for esport and SC2?
Thank you for everything IGN. IPL's tournaments were always something I looked forward too and watched religiously, Definitely my favorite eSports event to watch. Obviously the tournaments were not sustainable and with little to no ROI it's a smart move to pull out as a bad investment. From a business point of view I understand, but as a fan I'll definitely miss all of your great productions.
On March 05 2013 10:10 torg wrote: I dont really get this though. they posted viewership in the 2012/2013 shift and bragged about their viewership. Now they say that there is to much competition?
Well, a business suicide by cancelling imo. If they are selling IGN they wont get much after this fasade.
This is pure speculation, but I believe the viewership for LoL benefits Riot (through whatever contractual agreements were made) more than it does IGN/IPL. And if I'm not mistaken, the viewership for LoL was the only thing that could have possibly kept them afloat. The viewership for SC2 simply didn't cut it for the investment they were putting into the tournament.
tl;dr I think Riot proposed something along the lines of, "Sure, you can have our game, but we're taking most of the money you generate," and then IPL went broke.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
On March 05 2013 10:10 torg wrote: I dont really get this though. they posted viewership in the 2012/2013 shift and bragged about their viewership. Now they say that there is to much competition?
Well, a business suicide by cancelling imo. If they are selling IGN they wont get much after this fasade.
This is pure speculation, but I believe the viewership for LoL benefits Riot (through whatever contractual agreements were made) more than it does IGN/IPL. And if I'm not mistaken, the viewership for LoL was the only thing that could have possibly kept them afloat. The viewership for SC2 simply didn't cut it for the investment they were putting into the tournament.
before all this stuff happened, at ipl 5, david ting said in some interviews they closed a deal with capcom to bring in the fighting games in for the next ipl. They definitely would have brought a lot of viewers aside from sc2 and lol. I just dont think views alone in the esports scene is good enough right now as the only source to get the roi's for these huge lan events.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
GSL seems to manage
they get views from two mediums, television and online. Hot6ix is and has been the title sponsor and thats primarily aimed at the korean audience. I'm guessing their television views have a much more bigger impact on their sponsorships/roi's than online?
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
GSL seems to manage
WoT?
GSL expanding to another game just means they're doing well enough to run another title other than SC2. I don't see World of Tanks surpassing SC2 at all.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
On March 05 2013 10:14 Cyro wrote: They're not refunding travel expenses, cancelling is a massive fuck you to all of the people who trusted them to put on a nice event.
Yeah. If that's how this is gonna end, then good fucking riddance.
Seriously sucks for all the players that you promised to fly out to Vegas. They lost precious practice time and sleep over something that will never happened.
I'm so angry that IPL lead everyone on a fucking wild goose chase. Terrible management.
On March 05 2013 10:24 Fusilero wrote: So urm now that it's official how should liquipedia be edited in response to this, run a massive line through the pages saying "cancelled".
I suggest just having this come up on the page over everything + Show Spoiler +
I think this officially heralds the end of the honeymoon period for international eSports. Didn't think it was going to be IPL that went belly up first, but then again, they were the lavish spenders, setting a standard for premium tournaments but at the same time, losing money in the process. When the management change came and the vision for IGN shifted, it was only a matter of time.
When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
I really doubt this has much to do with why they're canceling, but whatever.
I always thought IGN had unrealistic ideas about what esports was, is, and should be. It doesn't surprise me in the least that they're gone now. They brought a lot of arrogance to the scene and claimed that everyone else was doing things "wrong", but clearly they were diving in headfirst into something they didn't completely understand.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
GSL seems to manage
they get views from two mediums, television and online. Hot6ix is and has been the title sponsor and thats primarily aimed at the korean audience. I'm guessing their television views have a much more bigger impact on their sponsorships/roi's than online?
Is GSL on TV nowdays? i was under the impression it was just on gomtv, online.
IGN couldn't of been sold at a worse time. Don't think this will hurt too much in the long term, just sucks that there is one less big event pushing standards higher. Hope to hear from some of the folks at IPL in the weeks/months ahead about what went down.
This was incredibly unprofessionally handled. Whether or not there are issues with things within the company, waiting this long to make a statement is really not something anybody should ever be doing.
This is a very short post for a very serious situation. More elaboration would be nice (I say nice to be polite, honestly it's necessary for IPL to have an legitimacy going forward.)
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
Riot killing eSports.
I dunno dawg, LoL seems to be doing quite well so far.
Just seems like SC2 can't carry a tournament on it's own back anymore
GSL seems to manage
they get views from two mediums, television and online. Hot6ix is and has been the title sponsor and thats primarily aimed at the korean audience. I'm guessing their television views have a much more bigger impact on their sponsorships/roi's than online?
Is GSL on TV nowdays? i was under the impression it was just on gomtv, online.
edit: actually i may be mistaken, im trying to look up the channel but i cant find a clear answer. Sorry, i might be confusing it with the other starcraft broadcasts from other companies
at IGN the children screamed, Stephano cried and Leenock dreamed. but not a word was spoken... business model was broken. the three races I admire most: the Protoss, Zerg, and the Terran ghost... they canceled their flights to the coast the day IPL died
Ya know, I never really felt all that strongly about IPL, and it has almost nothing to do with the quality of their content nor tournament production. IPL 3, 4, and 5 were amazing, and the content they put out in between was not only pretty good, there was a lot of it. I simply enjoyed other leagues a bit more, and would always prioritize the GSL, MLG, DH, and even the NASL once Bitterdam came aboard over the IPL, and as a pretty diehard fan of esports. I can't help but feel a bit bad about that in retrospect. I feel the worst for Kevin Knocke, who is an absolute credit to this community, Sc2, and the esports scene in general, and I really hope he ends up somewhere where his talents can continue to impress hardcore fans and the casual audience alike.
"Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event."
Didn't they have IPL5 and plan for IPL6 after BWC and after Riot put on like 2000 LoL tournaments?
I expected this to happen, but seeing it confirmed just makes me super sad. IPL events have always been a personal favorite of mine, and seeing this happen is not good news. IPL6 was going to be epic being the swan song of WoL, an epic IPTL finals and a HotS open bracket. I suppose this is just the nature of competition, but at least IPL isn't dead, and it still has a chance for restructuring and repairing itself for the future. Hope the best works our for IPL in the future.
(P.S. What about IPTL finals? Are they being broadcasted in the future online, or being done like last time in another live venue?)
This is what i've always fear about with IPL. What happens if/when IGN decides to say no more? IPL was a very daring risk made by IGN. They spent a lot of money on it. (hell IPL 5 cost them over a million dollars alone). Banking so much on one company just seemed too good to be true. And then when IGN went up for sale... I'm not the least bit surprised this is happening. It's a shame as they did put on great events (although their best production was from outside with Reveille producing IPL 3 and GOM producing IPL 5).
Sad day. Maybe they will surprise me and make a comeback, but I'm not counting on it (despite the positive words we may hear from them in the coming days saying stuff like "oh we are in talks with X amount of companies" or something).
On March 05 2013 10:42 TommyP wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event."
Didn't they have IPL5 and plan for IPL6 after BWC and after Riot put on like 2000 LoL tournaments?
Pretty sure it's just a convenient excuse for its parent company to scrap something that wasn't going to make profit in the short term.
On March 05 2013 10:40 Hot_Bid wrote: at IGN the children screamed, Stephano cried and Leenock dreamed. but not a word was spoken... business model was broken. the three races I admire most: the Protoss, Zerg, and the Terran ghost... they canceled their flights to the coast the day IPL died
And they were singing, Why Why must the IPL die? But Sundance G, cheered with glee Said, "The U.S. Scene is all Mine!
My Competitions dead And now I wont have to try I've got the U.S. Scene Entirely monopolized.
(I don't count those NASL league guys Compared to Me they are a bunch of small frys.)"
At MLG they dont care that the pural of fry is actually fry.
Ah this sucks for everyone. IPL had a big thing going for them. I guess the IPTL will not have a finals either? sucks for all the teams that put so much effort into it.
On March 05 2013 10:40 Hot_Bid wrote: at IGN the children screamed, Stephano cried and Leenock dreamed. but not a word was spoken... business model was broken. the three races I admire most: the Protoss, Zerg, and the Terran ghost... they canceled their flights to the coast the day IPL died
Good one! At least nobody died in a plane crash this time...
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
The past two years have been incredible, and we thank every one of the millions of people who tuned in to our events and coverage over that time. Your support has been tremendous and we could not have done this without you. We went from $5,000 online StarCraft 2 tournaments to one of the world’s best and largest eSports events.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest ( internet ) compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
On March 05 2013 10:55 Fionn wrote: This also means if it isn't canceled, Polt vs. Hyun will be the true final WoL match with a big prize pool on the line. I'd be okay with that.
I say we pretend that Symbol/Roro didn't happen and that Polt/Hyun is the Code S final.
wait I am a bit confused.....so IPL is OVER? Or this one IPL event is just CANCELED. ANd what's this stuff about "game publishers holding their own tournaments so we do not want to devote major resources....."
What i don't understand is that, if they are trying to sell ipl, why would they cancel it, This will only hurt the brand, if they still ran the event it would at least generate more interest.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
wait... Let me get this straight. Is Tengcent's marketp cap of $ 497.98 Billion in USD or HKD? Coz it says their stock price is 277.80 HKD in HON KONG DOLLARS not USD
Sad to hear, I liked the way IPL ran their tournaments based on my positive experience at IPL3. Hopefully they can find a buyer and a business model that works.
i'm debating cancelling my IGN prime subscription due to the news. I am hesitant though due to the potential for more show matches like hyun vs polt in the future. i had no problem paying the small sub fee every couple of months, but I feel like we should make a statement about this decision through our pockets.
On March 05 2013 10:45 Fionn wrote: Is Polt vs. Hyun still on for $8,000 at SXSW?
Yes, our friends at Alienware will be hosting our event with us at SXSW. All our staff is already there and setting up the production assets we had prepared for IPL6. Our goal was to match the mark GOM made at IPL5. We are putting our all into this event, and please tune in for the Ultimate Fight Club.
p.s. my man Paul made this bittersweet promo:
p.p.s. my man Paul wrote Austin Convention Center when it should be Palmer Events Center.
That's real unfortunate to see a major tournament get cancelled like that. This is going to kill IPL's brand though, hopefully IPTL can still be salvaged
It's good for the bubble to contract. This scene has way too many events. They all bring each other down and lose their significance when there's so many.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
wait... Let me get this straight. Is Tengcent's marketp cap of $ 497.98 Billion in USD or HKD? Coz it says their stock price is 277.80 HKD in HON KONG DOLLARS not USD
market capitalization of US$38 billion. Just behind Google and Amazon.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
wait... Let me get this straight. Is Tengcent's marketp cap of $ 497.98 Billion in USD or HKD? Coz it says their stock price is 277.80 HKD in HON KONG DOLLARS not USD
market capitalization of US$38 billion. Just behind Google and Amazon.
LOL.
nvm then. 38 billion isnt big enough to be considered one of the richest companies in the world
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
Tencent is the 3rd largest internet company in the world behind Google and Amazon, not the 3rd overall. They also own Epic Games, by the way.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
Tencent is the 3rd largest internet company in the world behind Google and Amazon, not the 3rd overall. They also own Epic Games, by the way.
Correct. The third biggest company in the world is Walmart.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
Tencent is the 3rd largest internet company in the world behind Google and Amazon, not the 3rd overall. They also own Epic Games, by the way.
Correct. The third biggest company in the world is Walmart.
haha i looked it up too :D
Also38billion market cap does not come close to the big car makers Daimler and volkswagen in germany. Largest companies in the world ar the oil lords :D
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
I am genuinely sad about this. IPL events were great. Even when you had the internet issues, that random phone camera stream was terrific and entertaining.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
Tencent is the 3rd largest internet company in the world behind Google and Amazon, not the 3rd overall. They also own Epic Games, by the way.
Handled incredibly unprofessionally by Ziff Davis - if this was a decision that was going to be made it should have been done a whole lot sooner, because they had to know how many people in the eSports scene, teams and players and fans alike, they were screwing over with having to eat plane tickets and other costs. I'll still go to Vegas because I can still have a good time there, but it puts a huge damper on the trip.
As far as the whole NA SC2 scene goes, I think this spells a lot of trouble. I've been to two live tournaments, IPL3 and MLG Providence 2011. What I remember from IPL3 was amazing venues, a great atmosphere (sitting three feet from Stephano and Thorzain watching them dork around with offraces in the practice room), a great stage, comfortable seats for everyone.
What I remember from MLG was a super crowded huge room, jostling for space on a concrete floor to sit on for hours at a time (people held seats for hours since they were so precious), very restrictive areas, inability to bring concessions inside the convention hall, and poor service at the shop. It was still enjoyable Starcraft but it was much less relaxing to be a spectator there.
Hopefully the tournament scene continues to grow and be more competitive, but I have my doubts, and after the way this was handled, ZD/IGN is going to have to work a lot harder to get my money again.
On March 05 2013 11:19 nomyx wrote: Wasn't IPL going to have an $8000 showmatch? Is that still going on or what (I think it was between Byun and someone)
On March 05 2013 10:45 Fionn wrote: Is Polt vs. Hyun still on for $8,000 at SXSW?
Yes, our friends at Alienware will be hosting our event with us at SXSW. All our staff is already there and setting up the production assets we had prepared for IPL6. Our goal was to match the mark GOM made at IPL5. We are putting our all into this event, and please tune in for the Ultimate Fight Club.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
I am not sure a direct comparison can be made due to the differences in the business model. The revenue from games like SC2 is from game (box/download) sales while LoL is free but with things like champs and skins.
So I think the pro scene has different affects on the revenue. For example, BW was still going strong as a e-sports until 2011 in Korea. But do you think Blizzard made a lot of BW sales in 2011? But for something like LoL, as long as pros are using new champs, they can always generate revenue.
Again, I am not saying which way is better. They are just different. Like someone pointed out above, things like the LCS are part of the marketing budget for LoL. And marketing will always be about ROI. The Riot game payment model simply generates more revenue from hosting tournaments in the pro scene compare to Blizzard games.
Luckily I was able to get my hotel refunded and my flight credited as soon as the rumors started flying. Surely hope others can have the same done for them. Was extremely excited to go back to Vegas for IPL6 after having attended IPL5 as my first live event last year. Sucks how this all ended though. :/
I am personally not too surprised by this; I don't want to say I am glad, but having a tournament with any WoL component (assuming they would have had a segregated WoL/HotS tournament) way past HotS release would really have messed with their numbers/success. Unfortunate, but I understand their reasoning and hope they can continue surviving in the space.
It has been a long time (I believe) since a SC2 tournament was cancelled; really annoying and frustrating for those who planned to go. I guess that is the cost of cancellation.
this is really sad that gaming tournament companies in north america are closing down. I hope you guys find a place soon I really loved your team leagues it was really fun. GL in the future ipl
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
I don't buy it. They were on track to become more profitable. mother fing new owners had no faith in eSports then why the heck would they buy them in the first place. I guess that's why they're selling IPL tho.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
I have to say.. the quote from IGL is a cop out.. I wont go into why really.. but its just a sad way to look at things and if it has anything to do with their reasoning then they were working the wrong angles.
But.. the quote you made is also wrong. Your numbers may be right..but the one fail is in the fact that people still think that 'media dollars' are enough to sustain ANY event. They are not.. and once we all figure that out and move forward to find better ways to sustain revenue and continued growth.. the better off we will be.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
I am not sure a direct comparison can be made due to the differences in the business model. The revenue from games like SC2 is from game (box/download) sales while LoL is free but with things like champs and skins.
So I think the pro scene has different affects on the revenue. For example, BW was still going strong as a e-sports until 2011 in Korea. But do you think Blizzard made a lot of BW sales in 2011? But for something like LoL, as long as pros are using new champs, they can always generate revenue.
Again, I am not saying which way is better. They are just different. Like someone pointed out above, things like the LCS are part of the marketing budget for LoL. And marketing will always be about ROI. The Riot game payment model simply generates more revenue from hosting tournaments in the pro scene compare to Blizzard games.
I'm not going to disagreeing with you at all there, because your exactly right.
Personally, I think the distribution, design and sales model for SC2 was outdated.
SC2 is a great game, but it is a masochistic game. It's not 'fun' to play. It's very rewarding if you can get great at it, but it's a stressful and unpleasant gaming experience that discourages even hardcore gamers that play CoD 40 hours a week from picking it up.
And the landscape of gaming has changed. They released SC2 like a sequel to Broodwar, in an era when developers rely on in-app purchases and subscriptions for revenue, and freemium distribution to guarantee a massive user base. There are way more viable e-sports, RTS and great games period competing for gamers attention, and many more developers competing in what used to be Blizzard's wheelhouse.
Broodwar was released during a time when Blizzard had very few competitors. And WoW had actual addiction loops, that rewarded and hooked even the most mediocre players.
When Destiny criticizes Blizzard for taking a tiny feature in Broodwar (melee) and basing their entire sequel around it, he has a very valid point. The best thing for SC2's long-term viability isn't to make it more balanced and even harder to play. It's to provide real incentives for participating (like rewards and tournaments) and actually make the game fun for people that will never be master's level players.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
wait... Let me get this straight. Is Tengcent's marketp cap of $ 497.98 Billion in USD or HKD? Coz it says their stock price is 277.80 HKD in HON KONG DOLLARS not USD
Tencent is the third largest internet corporation on the planet, superseded by only Apple and Microsoft. They're big, and they bought Riot for, what, $400 million? They could pretty much kill every other eSport if they wanted to.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
wait... Let me get this straight. Is Tengcent's marketp cap of $ 497.98 Billion in USD or HKD? Coz it says their stock price is 277.80 HKD in HON KONG DOLLARS not USD
Tencent is the third largest internet corporation on the planet, superseded by only Apple and Microsoft. They're big, and they bought Riot for, what, $400 million? They could pretty much kill every other eSport if they wanted to.
I think you meant Google and Amazon. Apple and MS aren't internet corps.
That's what they get for having a ZvZ finals with Leenock in it. Had it been Polt or Bomber, everything would be different. IGN's whole business would revolve around IPL instead of IPL being on the side! But alas, Zerg.
[QUOTE]On March 05 2013 11:37 Zenbrez wrote: [QUOTE]On March 05 2013 11:17 Defacer wrote: [QUOTE]On March 05 2013 10:56 Noocta wrote: [QUOTE]On March 05 2013 10:19 ZeromuS wrote: [QUOTE]On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion. [/QUOTE]
I don't get it. What do you mean?[/QUOTE]
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that... [/QUOTE]
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment. [/QUOTE]
i do think blizzard does believe in esports as an effective investment. How many tournaments are paying licences to have sc2 on their stages? and it brings a ton of exposure to the brand and the other franchises blizzard has created. The way i see it, they are more in the background of things for whatever reasons (EA could be controlling how they use their funds in esports spending or more realistically, they were really uncertain how things were going to turn out, they sat back while others succeeded/failed and they use those examples to adjust their spending.) Blizzard is pretty involved in esports and its community than a few years ago. But like its stated before, their business model is much more different than riot's. Riot's LoL generates a constant revenue from their micro transactions while blizzard just sells the game once, and you pay for the expansions, thats it.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
Their games have some of the longest shelf lives.
Yeah, but there's a difference between making a great game with a long shelf life, and a game that can actually support a competitive scene.
Chess has a long shelf-life, and professional chess players make terrible, terrible money.
I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
I view it the other way around. I think Blizzard really pushed SC2 as an esport (look to GSL and WCS and Blizzconn tournaments), but the game itself just wasn't good enough to keep people interested. It wasn't particularly fun to play or to watch, specifically at launch when every game was less than 10 minutes long with one player just getting flat build order owned without any chance. Then after a lot of nerfs went down, the games started to get more interesting, but they kept making changes to the game to the point that it just got boring and predictable.
In short, I think Blizzard is very aware about how running an esport is an ongoing investment. They've pumped plenty of money into the tournament scene, but WoL just wasn't that good in retrospect.
Really unfortunate. IPL has always been one of my favorite SC2 leagues out there. The daily content brought a daily professional cast for US viewers that may not be able to watch every GSL due to work schedules. Good luck to all involved! Sad there wasnt a better outcome available.
I feel for the IPL crew, a seasoned and salty caster like kevin will probably be fine but sweet young Robin was just getting warmed up imo. In any case, I hope IPL finds a new home and if it doesn't I really hope that whole crew finds more work in the scene.
On March 05 2013 11:46 lowercase wrote: So... no IPL6, or no more IPLs ever?
david ting on twitter said they are gona release news in about 30 days from now on what's the next step for them. Until then, lets sit tight and hope for the best.
IPL is probably over. IGN has eliminated 1up & Gamespy as well. They are really hurting right now. I wish the economy would turn around. SC2 could have been better if it wasn't for the depression.
On March 05 2013 10:45 Fionn wrote: Is Polt vs. Hyun still on for $8,000 at SXSW?
Yes, our friends at Alienware will be hosting our event with us at SXSW. All our staff is already there and setting up the production assets we had prepared for IPL6. Our goal was to match the mark GOM made at IPL5. We are putting our all into this event, and please tune in for the Ultimate Fight Club.
p.p.s. my man Paul wrote Austin Convention Center when it should be Palmer Events Center.
Generally when a league talks themselves up I ignore it, but when its IPL saying they are going to give it their all, you can damn well expect a sick show. Looking forward to it!
Hey IPL, us at the FGC want to know if you guys are still going to run a Capcom event? Just asking, since we were really excited to work with an "esports" league willing to listen to the community.
On March 05 2013 11:44 MVega wrote: I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
You mean XP? Earning skins? Non-ladder 1v1?
I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but trust me — the philosophy of balancing for pro players is really, really holding back what the game designers can do creatively.
For example: Lurkers. Everyone loves lurkers. Everyone wants lurkers. They already have models of them, for crying out loud. But they can't just give players lurkers without affecting game balance.
Imagine if there was a totally separate ladder — let's call it Wood league — where players earn (or buy!) XP, and can unlock lurkers, or Massive Queens, and Science Vessels, or Odins. You can have island maps, giant maps, all-gold maps or maps with all the destructible and collapsible imba BS you want.
It would be an entirely broken, ridiculous ladder separate from the real 'pro' ladder ... but it would also be a lot of fun, with a lot of incentive for complete newbs to grind away and earn skins, spells or entire units.
On March 05 2013 10:18 Noocta wrote: Thank you IPL. The ref to Riot LCS somewhat make me bitter. Riot and their Chinese overminds are creating a bubble from whom I fear the explosion.
I don't get it. What do you mean?
Riot is owned by the 3rd richest compagny in the world, Tengcent or something. That's where the money come from for big things like the LCS, which is basically Riot setting up their own teamhouses for everyone, their own studio, their own leagues, and bringing all the teams at one place, and everything is paid by Riot.
Just try to compete against that...
I remember Destiny bringing up this issue ages ago. The e-sports scene for other games is heavily, heavily subsized by the actual publishers of those games. It's a marketing expense that extends the long-tail of their gaming sales and bolsters the value of their IP.
Blizzard has been terrible at growing their scene. They were/are so arrogant based on WoW's and Broodwar's success, they thought simply making a great game would guarantee it would have a long shelf life. Even though they announced two expansions, it doesn't seem like they saw the development of e-sports as an ongoing, active investment.
I view it the other way around. I think Blizzard really pushed SC2 as an esport (look to GSL and WCS and Blizzconn tournaments), but the game itself just wasn't good enough to keep people interested. It wasn't particularly fun to play or to watch, specifically at launch when every game was less than 10 minutes long with one player just getting flat build order owned without any chance. Then after a lot of nerfs went down, the games started to get more interesting, but they kept making changes to the game to the point that it just got boring and predictable.
In short, I think Blizzard is very aware about how running an esport is an ongoing investment. They've pumped plenty of money into the tournament scene, but WoL just wasn't that good in retrospect.
I don't want to keep going off on a tangent, but I never thought of it that way before. Part of me thinks you might be romanticizing how fun Broodwar actually is to watch, but then again, you probably have more experience with BW and SC2 to make the comparison.
On March 05 2013 11:44 MVega wrote: I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:55 Defacer wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
You mean XP? Earning skins? Non-ladder 1v1?
I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but trust me — the philosophy of balancing for pro players is really, really holding back what the game designers can do creatively.
For example: Lurkers. Everyone loves lurkers. Everyone wants lurkers. They already have models of them, for crying out loud. But they can't just give players lurkers without affecting game balance.
Imagine if there was a totally separate ladder — let's call it Wood league — where players earn (or buy!) XP, and can unlock lurkers, or Massive Queens, and Science Vessels, or Odins. You can have island maps, giant maps, all-gold maps or maps with all the destructible and collapsible imba BS you want.
It would be an entirely broken, ridiculous ladder separate from the real 'pro' ladder ... but it would also be a lot of fun, with a lot of incentive for complete newbs to grind away and earn skins, spells or entire units.
sounds like fun, but im beginning to think the blizzard all stars thing is supposed to be their version of casual play for them. All you need to do is buy sc2, and boom you have a dota with all your favorite blizzard characters. Just sell skins and more characters, etc.
Really really unfortunate news. This really hurts the NA scene not having an event like this 4 times a year, and especially hurts the teams which exist to send players to such events.
Hopefully some organization will step up and take over the company to bring it back to some of it's former glory.
Glad to see IGN working towards fixing some of the fiscal damage they've caused to the fans investing in this event specifically.
On March 05 2013 11:49 bloodyrooster wrote: IPL is probably over. IGN has eliminated 1up & Gamespy as well. They are really hurting right now. I wish the economy would turn around. SC2 could have been better if it wasn't for the depression.
I would also say a glut of tournaments have made it pretty competitive for viewers. HotS release might reinvigorate the scene, though.
On March 05 2013 12:01 WinterTV wrote: Really really unfortunate news. This really hurts the NA scene not having an event like this 4 times a year, and especially hurts the teams which exist to send players to such events.
Hopefully some organization will step up and take over the company to bring it back to some of it's former glory.
Glad to see IGN working towards fixing some of the fiscal damage they've caused to the fans investing in this event specifically.
Huh? They're not reimbursing for anyone's non-refundable airfare. Hotels and passes are small change compared to that.
On March 05 2013 12:03 holy_war wrote: Huh? They're not reimbursing for anyone's non-refundable airfare. Hotels and passes are small change compared to that.
They are trying to for teams and players. As for reimbursing non-refundable airfares for fans, has any organization in the history of ever actually done that?
On March 05 2013 11:44 MVega wrote: I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:55 Defacer wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
You mean XP? Earning skins? Non-ladder 1v1?
I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but trust me — the philosophy of balancing for pro players is really, really holding back what the game designers can do creatively.
For example: Lurkers. Everyone loves lurkers. Everyone wants lurkers. They already have models of them, for crying out loud. But they can't just give players lurkers without affecting game balance.
Imagine if there was a totally separate ladder — let's call it Wood league — where players earn (or buy!) XP, and can unlock lurkers, or Massive Queens, and Science Vessels, or Odins. You can have island maps, giant maps, all-gold maps or maps with all the destructible and collapsible imba BS you want.
It would be an entirely broken, ridiculous ladder separate from the real 'pro' ladder ... but it would also be a lot of fun, with a lot of incentive for complete newbs to grind away and earn skins, spells or entire units.
sounds like fun, but im beginning to think the blizzard all stars thing is supposed to be their version of casual play for them. All you need to do is buy sc2, and boom you have a dota with all your favorite blizzard characters. Just sell skins and more characters, etc.
Yeah, Blizzard All-Stars is a great idea to appeal to fans. Imagine if XP was transferable from SC2 to All-Stars and other games in the Arcade (another thing they should take more ownership of).
I'm sure Blizzard realizes the challenges they're facing with SC2 ... or at least I hope.
On March 05 2013 12:03 holy_war wrote: Huh? They're not reimbursing for anyone's non-refundable airfare. Hotels and passes are small change compared to that.
They are trying to for teams and players. As for reimbursing non-refundable airfares for fans, has any organization in the history of ever actually done that?
I understand that, and it wasn't my point. The person I quoted was specifically talking about how IGN was helping trying to help the fans, not the players/teams.
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for that reason, it's all profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Do you know a thing about what happened? Apparently not but you're definitely willing to pass judgment anyway. Sad state of affairs that we have such a destructive community.
Really sucks that we wont be seeing IPL6 in March. I've been a fan of IPL since season 1 and will continue to support them in the future! I just hope we'll hear some good news from them soon!
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for that reason, it's all profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Do you know a thing about what happened? Apparently not but you're definitely willing to pass judgment anyway. Sad state of affairs that we have such a destructive community.
Care to elaborate on what this "what happened" thing is??
What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Ever heard of PR?
I don't see how you raging and lashing back at them helps the situation at all. Just because they had to cancel one event doesn't undo all IPL has done for esports till now.
If that one event getting cancelled means you won't buy HotS doesn't really show me what kind of passionate feelings you have for esports either.
New owners have different goals. Sucks the event has to get cancelled.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
Lets not hate on them for this dying business.You can't expect an organization to throw countless money into something that just doesn't pay off. I can understand if you're upset if about non-reimbursable flight costs...IPL definitely should have announced this earlier.
At this point, I am already finding new things to do with my free time. 2011 was awesome. 2012 was even a bit much for me. An event every other weekend. It was crazy. The only thing I am disappointed about is how much harder Riot seem to care about its community compared to Blizzard.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
All viable explanations. But that justifies abusing your customers?
Also, the fact of keeping any money from interest, a penny to thousands of dollars, is irrelevant. It comes down to morality. I understand that it would be very complicated and expensive for the owners/directors to figure out the interest for everyone and be able to pay it back. A substitute, like a free shirt, free tickets, free something, would be a lot better than; sorry about that, better luck next time.
And that brings up another good point... Why don't we have an idea? The official announcement is :
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
If they don't want us to assume certain things, like what you said, cash flow issues, or what I said, not enough profits to be worth it, then they should have explained to their consumers a little better. How big of a slap in the face would it be if say, Apple just canceled their next iPhone launch and all they said was : A couple years ago it was a different scene. Other companies are selling their own phones now, so, we aren't ready to really commit to our new one. Sorry.
It would be outrageous, just like how this is.
I'm really not as upset as my tone is making me seem, but I'm just really at awe by how poorly managed this cancellation is. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware and understand that businesses need to cut corners and make the correct move every single time, or else the ship sinks, which is what they did, but don't fib to us. Don't give us some half ass answer, and nothing in return but a, sorry about that.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
Lol... you are getting personal, why?? You don't know anything about me, yet you make the presumption I am younger than you? That's childish..
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
On March 05 2013 12:36 forumtext wrote: Does Blizzard still have a 50% tournament tax rate or has that changed?
*vomits in mouth * 50%!?!? Really?
lol its supposed to be like a big % of ad revenue i think? i think sundance touched on that number, but i dont recall it being as high as 50%
If I were Sundance and had to fork over 50% of my ad revenue to Blizzard I would probably start a totally different business ...
At least now I know why the early SC2 tournies at MLG only had a couple of benches for their audience.
IIRC it's only for tournaments that exceed a certain price money threshold(5000 usd?). I think when Blizzard first introduced this tax, they must have expecting BIG SC2 tournaments all over the world.
Oh well, they still have 2 chances to make it come true.
*btw I am not 100% sure it's 50% ad tax, but this is the number most people throw around.
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
This could be referencing Riot and the LCS, which would be ongoing during the IPL 6. the viewership would be split, and the sc2 audience + 1/2 the league audience is not enough to support the prizepool and other expenses of IPL6.
good luck IPL, hope you guys find a way to make it through this
LCS games would have been at IPL, so the viewership will go to IPL.
The whole thing is a huge PR bullshit post by IGN/Jiff Davis, IPL is only #2 lan event on NA that happens regularly and has an actual brand...just pr bullshit to no say the truth.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
All viable explanations. But that justifies abusing your customers?
Also, the fact of keeping any money from interest, a penny to thousands of dollars, is irrelevant. It comes down to morality. I understand that it would be very complicated and expensive for the owners/directors to figure out the interest for everyone and be able to pay it back. A substitute, like a free shirt, free tickets, free something, would be a lot better than; sorry about that, better luck next time.
And that brings up another good point... Why don't we have an idea? The official announcement is :
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
If they don't want us to assume certain things, like what you said, cash flow issues, or what I said, not enough profits to be worth it, then they should have explained to their consumers a little better. How big of a slap in the face would it be if say, Apple just canceled their next iPhone launch and all they said was : A couple years ago it was a different scene. Other companies are selling their own phones now, so, we aren't ready to really commit to our new one. Sorry.
It would be outrageous, just like how this is.
I'm really not as upset as my tone is making me seem, but I'm just really at awe by how poorly managed this cancellation is. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware and understand that businesses need to cut corners and make the correct move every single time, or else the ship sinks, which is what they did, but don't fib to us. Don't give us some half ass answer, and nothing in return but a, sorry about that.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
Lol... you are getting personal, why?? You don't know anything about me, yet you make the presumption I am younger than you? That's childish..
They have no obligation to explain to you with any further detail why they are backing out of doing this event or any other one for that matter. I understand you are upset about the cancellation but you need to just get over it.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
All viable explanations. But that justifies abusing your customers?
Also, the fact of keeping any money from interest, a penny to thousands of dollars, is irrelevant. It comes down to morality. I understand that it would be very complicated and expensive for the owners/directors to figure out the interest for everyone and be able to pay it back. A substitute, like a free shirt, free tickets, free something, would be a lot better than; sorry about that, better luck next time.
And that brings up another good point... Why don't we have an idea? The official announcement is :
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
If they don't want us to assume certain things, like what you said, cash flow issues, or what I said, not enough profits to be worth it, then they should have explained to their consumers a little better. How big of a slap in the face would it be if say, Apple just canceled their next iPhone launch and all they said was : A couple years ago it was a different scene. Other companies are selling their own phones now, so, we aren't ready to really commit to our new one. Sorry.
It would be outrageous, just like how this is.
I'm really not as upset as my tone is making me seem, but I'm just really at awe by how poorly managed this cancellation is. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware and understand that businesses need to cut corners and make the correct move every single time, or else the ship sinks, which is what they did, but don't fib to us. Don't give us some half ass answer, and nothing in return but a, sorry about that.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
Lol... you are getting personal, why?? You don't know anything about me, yet you make the presumption I am younger than you? That's childish..
They have no obligation to explain to you with any further detail why they are backing out of doing this event or any other one for that matter. I understand you are upset about the cancellation but you need to just get over it.
You sir, are correct! They have no obligation what-so-ever. In turn, that may piss some people off, or at the least, lose faith in their organization. Which, I am, and have. Where you are wrong is that I need to get over it. It's a free world (well most parts) and I'm allowed to express my opinion. Don't take that away from me. I can just say, if you don't enjoy what I am saying, just get over it. That's rude, so I won't.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
It hit at the perfect time in Koreas industrialization developement. Kids suddenly had access to cheap internew and cheap computers for the first time in their history. BW was free for all respective purpose's so there was no barrier of entry. It was a good game at a good time and it just exploded in korea.
Real sad that IPL ended like this, would have been much better if they didn't annouce ipl6 at all.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
Korea was in a recession. BW was currently the big game of the time. PC Bangs were cheap sources of entertainment in Korea, especially important because of said recession. BW could be installed onto every machine in a PC Bang without requiring more than one copy (as long as no BNet), so it was extremely cheap for businesses. End result was a massive percentage of a population playing/knowing about BW.
And that's not including the growth of the tournament scene.
This is all extremely well documented, so if you want to look it up, go right ahead.
On March 05 2013 11:48 IronL wrote: I feel for the IPL crew, a seasoned and salty caster like kevin will probably be fine but sweet young Robin was just getting warmed up imo. In any case, I hope IPL finds a new home and if it doesn't I really hope that whole crew finds more work in the scene.
Thanks man. Im hoping the future will work out. I walked away from casting once and the IPL thing fell in my lap. This time im willing to work harder for something bigger =)
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
All viable explanations. But that justifies abusing your customers?
Also, the fact of keeping any money from interest, a penny to thousands of dollars, is irrelevant. It comes down to morality. I understand that it would be very complicated and expensive for the owners/directors to figure out the interest for everyone and be able to pay it back. A substitute, like a free shirt, free tickets, free something, would be a lot better than; sorry about that, better luck next time.
And that brings up another good point... Why don't we have an idea? The official announcement is :
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
If they don't want us to assume certain things, like what you said, cash flow issues, or what I said, not enough profits to be worth it, then they should have explained to their consumers a little better. How big of a slap in the face would it be if say, Apple just canceled their next iPhone launch and all they said was : A couple years ago it was a different scene. Other companies are selling their own phones now, so, we aren't ready to really commit to our new one. Sorry.
It would be outrageous, just like how this is.
I'm really not as upset as my tone is making me seem, but I'm just really at awe by how poorly managed this cancellation is. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware and understand that businesses need to cut corners and make the correct move every single time, or else the ship sinks, which is what they did, but don't fib to us. Don't give us some half ass answer, and nothing in return but a, sorry about that.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
Lol... you are getting personal, why?? You don't know anything about me, yet you make the presumption I am younger than you? That's childish..
They have no obligation to explain to you with any further detail why they are backing out of doing this event or any other one for that matter. I understand you are upset about the cancellation but you need to just get over it.
You sir, are correct! They have no obligation what-so-ever. In turn, that may piss some people off, or at the least, lose faith in their organization. Which, I am, and have. Where you are wrong is that I need to get over it. It's a free world (well most parts) and I'm allowed to express my opinion. Don't take that away from me. I can just say, if you don't enjoy what I am saying, just get over it. That's rude, so I won't.
Of course people are gonna lose faith in them and that's expected. All I've seen you do is type out these tinfoil hat theories over this when you don't even have all the facts. You readily admit you aren't gonna get them yet here you are. Did you really expect to be coddled when you typed all that garbage in this thread?
I wonder is it going to be a buyer specifically or will it just end up that the staff finds homes eventually in other places. I loved what IPL did for the past few years its sad to see it all ending.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
Korea was in a recession. BW was currently the big game of the time. PC Bangs were cheap sources of entertainment in Korea, especially important because of said recession. BW could be installed onto every machine in a PC Bang without requiring more than one copy (as long as no BNet), so it was extremely cheap for businesses. End result was a massive percentage of a population playing/knowing about BW.
And that's not including the growth of the tournament scene.
This is all extremely well documented, so if you want to look it up, go right ahead.
Feels like IPL is done. This confirms to me that j2global does not what ipl at all, and after this cancellation I doubt a buyer will appear anymore.
Feel really bad for the IPL staff. Sure a few of them may go to IGN, but seeing as IGN has to make staff cuts themselves I get the feeling most will be laid off. From the outside looking in, they had a really good people. Sad day indeed.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
It hit at the perfect time in Koreas industrialization developement. Kids suddenly had access to cheap internew and cheap computers for the first time in their history. BW was free for all respective purpose's so there was no barrier of entry. It was a good game at a good time and it just exploded in korea.
Real sad that IPL ended like this, would have been much better if they didn't annouce ipl6 at all.
And we have more kids with computer today than ever. The world is also much more industrialized.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
I do hope Kevin Knocke stays in the scene, he may be good in another game too but really love his work. Kibblez is also good. Knocke though I could see duoing with Frodan in NASL since the Frotorp doesn't seem to be happening.
Gretorp and Kibbelz would be great on Proleague HotS edition I could see him replacing SNM who is terrible, sorry but its my opinion. Or Gretorp would be a good independent I actually enjoy his interviews he would be a great host for a SC2 tournament sitting on a couch and chatting.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
It hit at the perfect time in Koreas industrialization developement. Kids suddenly had access to cheap internew and cheap computers for the first time in their history. BW was free for all respective purpose's so there was no barrier of entry. It was a good game at a good time and it just exploded in korea.
Real sad that IPL ended like this, would have been much better if they didn't annouce ipl6 at all.
And we have more kids with computer today than ever. The world is also much more industrialized.
true that, but these korean kids at the time didn't have to pay $50ish bucks for star1 and bw to play it. Plus the idea of going to a lan with a bunch of your friends everyday after school to play some bw was a pretty damn fun thing to do.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
It hit at the perfect time in Koreas industrialization developement. Kids suddenly had access to cheap internew and cheap computers for the first time in their history. BW was free for all respective purpose's so there was no barrier of entry. It was a good game at a good time and it just exploded in korea.
Real sad that IPL ended like this, would have been much better if they didn't annouce ipl6 at all.
And we have more kids with computer today than ever. The world is also much more industrialized.
true that, but these korean kids at the time didn't have to pay $50ish bucks for star1 and bw to play it. Plus the idea of going to a lan with a bunch of your friends everyday after school to play some bw was a pretty damn fun thing to do.
I have a friend who grew up in korea during BW prime. I remember he told me about how new computers bought from a store would come with a copy of BW / BW already installed on it. BW was a good product that came out at the right time in korea.
On March 05 2013 12:26 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: What is this sudden influx of SC2 hate? I thought this sort of behavior was burning out? Is it if your not first then you are ostracized leper in bowels of hell?
Too many people being overly optimistic about esport and we all thought sc2 would be the next "bw".
SC 2 is already more successful than bw. BW only succeeded in korea and there was no meaningful scene outside kr. SC 2 succeeded globally far more than bw did.
True, but BW reached a mainstream critical mass in Korea that SC2 has not in either the east or west. BW reached a point where it could sustain itself in Korea for over a decade without the support (financial or otherwise) of Blizzard, foreign viewers, or widely available internet streaming. I just hope Starcraft, in any form, is able to sustain itself for the decade to come.
That was all the luck in the world combined that tough. The game just being good was not all of it.
Care to elaborate how BW got lucky?
It hit at the perfect time in Koreas industrialization developement. Kids suddenly had access to cheap internew and cheap computers for the first time in their history. BW was free for all respective purpose's so there was no barrier of entry. It was a good game at a good time and it just exploded in korea.
Real sad that IPL ended like this, would have been much better if they didn't annouce ipl6 at all.
And we have more kids with computer today than ever. The world is also much more industrialized.
true that, but these korean kids at the time didn't have to pay $50ish bucks for star1 and bw to play it. Plus the idea of going to a lan with a bunch of your friends everyday after school to play some bw was a pretty damn fun thing to do.
I have a friend who grew up in korea during BW prime. I remember he told me about how new computers bought from a store would come with a copy of BW / BW already installed on it. BW was a good product that came out at the right time in korea.
There is also much more legitmate competition in the competitive gaming scene from other games now compared to when BW was in its early years. Peoples attention spans are split amongst various games and its rare for a gamer to stick with a single game competitively through thick and thin.
When it is all sunshine and rainbows I feel like this community acts like it can take on the world, but the sight of the first cloud in the sky or rain drop and its considered a sign of the end times.
Like I said, for a lot of people it seem like if your not first your an ostracized leper burning in the bowels of hell.
Us Vegas locals are especially bummed It was nice having a big esports event in our home time while it lasted I suppose.
I'm sure the guys at IPL did all they could to keep the event afloat, but this cancelation is going to be a big issue if they haven't already found a buyer. The last four days leading up to this has generated enough bad press and bad rep as it is.
I'm really hoping IPL will be able to spring back up from this, but it will likely be a long recovery if any.
On March 05 2013 14:03 chaos021 wrote: OMG. Does anyone know if they're going to keep their operations going until they find a buyer? I love me some IPL fight club. =(
Wow. Holy s$%t. As a business partner I'd be so pissed, but as a fan I am heart broken! Man, I feel sorry for those who booked flights, hope they get refunded or just go and PARTY, if you got 3000 dollars to spare go have a good time in Sin City!! Eat outside the vegas strip for first timers that are on a budget!!! Its a lot cheaper than the overpriced food on the strip. Unless you like eatting In and Out everyday, haha.
On March 05 2013 12:36 forumtext wrote: Does Blizzard still have a 50% tournament tax rate or has that changed?
*vomits in mouth * 50%!?!? Really?
lol its supposed to be like a big % of ad revenue i think? i think sundance touched on that number, but i dont recall it being as high as 50%
If I were Sundance and had to fork over 50% of my ad revenue to Blizzard I would probably start a totally different business ...
At least now I know why the early SC2 tournies at MLG only had a couple of benches for their audience.
For as long as I've been doing work in eSports, Blizzard has never taxed tournies like this, and in fact, are more likely to help support events.
Well that's a relief. Taxing anyone that promotes your product doesn't make a lick of sense.
Why do these posts exist where MLG_Lee is heavily implying that blizzard takes a cut from tournaments and is defending this idea? It seemed to make a lot of sense to him.
Sure and in 25yrs if Blizzard doesn't renew its' IP, then it would be free to use.
If there was a new version of BasketSPIKEBALL came out, and that became a new sport, then it would be subject to copyright, trademark and patent law for the duration of those laws. Your example reinforces this point, not takes away from it.
I don't think I'm getting my point thru to you. this isn't just copyright law. This is also general intellectual property law, licensing with some applications from patent law. Say Spalding invented the basketball 5 years ago. They would hold the rights to license out the basketball (Starcraft II). They would, most likely, charge royalties for the use of that basketball they invented.
So yes, you could say that they're being paid twice, but it's all part of the same deal. Spalding gets the upfront for selling the basketball to the NBA and then a royalty percentage on every time the NBA makes money using their basketball.
Seems like MLG is perfectly fine with being taxed thus blizzard has little reason not to tax them. Also there is this quote from the kespa lawsuit.
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
Maybe IPL could no longer afford the licensing fee high enough to convince blizzard they are capable of producing high quality content anymore.
i don't have any problems with blizzard implementing a licensing fee or whatever fee they are demanding, but something like 50% ad revenue is pretty fucking steep. Basically im hoping its some kind of flat fee that ultimately both parties can get behind. The 700 million won (around 650k usd) looks steep to us but look at who they are demanding that fee from. That amount shouldn't be that difficult to pay off for an organization like Kespa.
On March 05 2013 14:43 Cygoris wrote: And now every person who says anything wrong about the state of Starcraft 2 in Esport will be flamed and/or banned.
Everything is fine, don't worry folks, Sadcraft 2 is booming, the market is not shrinking and Blizzard cares a lot about us.
A grocery store in my town went out of business recently. I guess we're all going to starve to death.
On March 05 2013 14:43 Cygoris wrote: And now every person who says anything wrong about the state of Starcraft 2 in Esport will be flamed and/or banned.
Everything is fine, don't worry folks, Sadcraft 2 is booming, the market is not shrinking and Blizzard cares a lot about us.
People get warned for saying stupid stuff that's not remotely true.
On March 05 2013 14:56 odaxium wrote: really a lot of bs when you think that the event was basically paid for already. cancelling it isn't saving them any money.
obviously it is or else they wouldn't cancel it....
On March 05 2013 12:36 forumtext wrote: Does Blizzard still have a 50% tournament tax rate or has that changed?
*vomits in mouth * 50%!?!? Really?
lol its supposed to be like a big % of ad revenue i think? i think sundance touched on that number, but i dont recall it being as high as 50%
If I were Sundance and had to fork over 50% of my ad revenue to Blizzard I would probably start a totally different business ...
At least now I know why the early SC2 tournies at MLG only had a couple of benches for their audience.
For as long as I've been doing work in eSports, Blizzard has never taxed tournies like this, and in fact, are more likely to help support events.
Well that's a relief. Taxing anyone that promotes your product doesn't make a lick of sense.
Why do these posts exist where MLG_Lee is heavily implying that blizzard takes a cut from tournaments and is defending this idea? It seemed to make a lot of sense to him.
Sure and in 25yrs if Blizzard doesn't renew its' IP, then it would be free to use.
If there was a new version of BasketSPIKEBALL came out, and that became a new sport, then it would be subject to copyright, trademark and patent law for the duration of those laws. Your example reinforces this point, not takes away from it.
I don't think I'm getting my point thru to you. this isn't just copyright law. This is also general intellectual property law, licensing with some applications from patent law. Say Spalding invented the basketball 5 years ago. They would hold the rights to license out the basketball (Starcraft II). They would, most likely, charge royalties for the use of that basketball they invented.
So yes, you could say that they're being paid twice, but it's all part of the same deal. Spalding gets the upfront for selling the basketball to the NBA and then a royalty percentage on every time the NBA makes money using their basketball.
Seems like MLG is perfectly fine with being taxed thus blizzard has little reason not to tax them. Also there is this quote from the kespa lawsuit.
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
Maybe IPL could no longer afford the licensing fee high enough to convince blizzard they are capable of producing high quality content anymore.
wait a min....... so you are saying it's not riot that is destroying esports but Blizzard!!!??? If this is true then my disappointment towards Blizzard only deepens. At least Riots give money to the events....... taking money away from the events now just seems wrong when the market/viewership is not doing that well.
On March 05 2013 12:36 forumtext wrote: Does Blizzard still have a 50% tournament tax rate or has that changed?
*vomits in mouth * 50%!?!? Really?
lol its supposed to be like a big % of ad revenue i think? i think sundance touched on that number, but i dont recall it being as high as 50%
If I were Sundance and had to fork over 50% of my ad revenue to Blizzard I would probably start a totally different business ...
At least now I know why the early SC2 tournies at MLG only had a couple of benches for their audience.
For as long as I've been doing work in eSports, Blizzard has never taxed tournies like this, and in fact, are more likely to help support events.
Well that's a relief. Taxing anyone that promotes your product doesn't make a lick of sense.
Why do these posts exist where MLG_Lee is heavily implying that blizzard takes a cut from tournaments and is defending this idea? It seemed to make a lot of sense to him.
Sure and in 25yrs if Blizzard doesn't renew its' IP, then it would be free to use.
If there was a new version of BasketSPIKEBALL came out, and that became a new sport, then it would be subject to copyright, trademark and patent law for the duration of those laws. Your example reinforces this point, not takes away from it.
I don't think I'm getting my point thru to you. this isn't just copyright law. This is also general intellectual property law, licensing with some applications from patent law. Say Spalding invented the basketball 5 years ago. They would hold the rights to license out the basketball (Starcraft II). They would, most likely, charge royalties for the use of that basketball they invented.
So yes, you could say that they're being paid twice, but it's all part of the same deal. Spalding gets the upfront for selling the basketball to the NBA and then a royalty percentage on every time the NBA makes money using their basketball.
Seems like MLG is perfectly fine with being taxed thus blizzard has little reason not to tax them. Also there is this quote from the kespa lawsuit.
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
Maybe IPL could no longer afford the licensing fee high enough to convince blizzard they are capable of producing high quality content anymore.
wait a min....... so you are saying it's not riot that is destroying esports but Blizzard!!!??? If this is true then my disappointment towards Blizzard only deepens. At least Riots give money to the events....... taking money away from the events now just seems wrong when the market/viewership is not doing that well.
... the level of facepalm...
I highly doubt blizzard had any significant factor to this situation.... Honestly, it is like people completely forgot about the Ziff Davis buyout....
On March 05 2013 12:36 forumtext wrote: Does Blizzard still have a 50% tournament tax rate or has that changed?
*vomits in mouth * 50%!?!? Really?
lol its supposed to be like a big % of ad revenue i think? i think sundance touched on that number, but i dont recall it being as high as 50%
If I were Sundance and had to fork over 50% of my ad revenue to Blizzard I would probably start a totally different business ...
At least now I know why the early SC2 tournies at MLG only had a couple of benches for their audience.
For as long as I've been doing work in eSports, Blizzard has never taxed tournies like this, and in fact, are more likely to help support events.
Well that's a relief. Taxing anyone that promotes your product doesn't make a lick of sense.
Why do these posts exist where MLG_Lee is heavily implying that blizzard takes a cut from tournaments and is defending this idea? It seemed to make a lot of sense to him.
Sure and in 25yrs if Blizzard doesn't renew its' IP, then it would be free to use.
If there was a new version of BasketSPIKEBALL came out, and that became a new sport, then it would be subject to copyright, trademark and patent law for the duration of those laws. Your example reinforces this point, not takes away from it.
I don't think I'm getting my point thru to you. this isn't just copyright law. This is also general intellectual property law, licensing with some applications from patent law. Say Spalding invented the basketball 5 years ago. They would hold the rights to license out the basketball (Starcraft II). They would, most likely, charge royalties for the use of that basketball they invented.
So yes, you could say that they're being paid twice, but it's all part of the same deal. Spalding gets the upfront for selling the basketball to the NBA and then a royalty percentage on every time the NBA makes money using their basketball.
Seems like MLG is perfectly fine with being taxed thus blizzard has little reason not to tax them. Also there is this quote from the kespa lawsuit.
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
Maybe IPL could no longer afford the licensing fee high enough to convince blizzard they are capable of producing high quality content anymore.
wait a min....... so you are saying it's not riot that is destroying esports but Blizzard!!!??? If this is true then my disappointment towards Blizzard only deepens. At least Riots give money to the events....... taking money away from the events now just seems wrong when the market/viewership is not doing that well.
Its actually the players who are destroying esports. They are taking the prize pool money away from the events, this kinda seems wrong now that viewership is not doing that well.
This is sad IPL 3 was the first tournament to really draw my interest into the pro sc2 scene. Tons of memories from that tournament and those IGN casters (HD Starcraft, Painuser, Kevin Knocke) have been my favorite since then. I hope this tournament can continue in the future, even though the IGN team will be missed if they are not a part of it.
Something i dont get; From the official statement; "When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Now there are more tournaments than ever before competing for people's time and attention, so we're no longer in a position to commit the resources required to run another major independent event."
This doesnt add up. Now there is bigger competition so they have to cancel. But some months ago they published viewernumbers that said otherwise;
I feel most bad for the players who went through qualifications. So much practise and anticipation for the tournament. Of course, no training is ever "wasted", but it's unfortunate all the same.
On March 05 2013 14:03 chaos021 wrote: OMG. Does anyone know if they're going to keep their operations going until they find a buyer? I love me some IPL fight club. =(
So Polt gets to keep his title indefinitely...
We all know HyuN will forever be king of fightclub. forever.
Only esports reporter chobopeon could have brought us "THE TRUTH" but he left esports after his kickstarter failed. I think it would have been neat to have an independent journalist investigate the business behind this decision. Hopefully slasher or ESFI can write an interesting article about this and what that part you quoted means exactly.
On March 05 2013 16:31 simmeh wrote: damn i wish i was a billionaire, i would have bought them and kept ipl alive! :[
I wish I was a billionaire too! But i would just buy an island and drink rum all day!
On topic: Meh,sad to see them stop TBH This doesnt have much to do with sc2, as they were a LoL tourney and that LoL racks hundreds of thousands of viewers. I cant really say why they stopped, but Im guessing that a lot of sponsors have probably been cutting their budgets and as everybody knows these kind of sponsorships are the first thing to go!
Only esports reporter chobopeon could have brought us "THE TRUTH" but he left esports after his kickstarter failed. I think it would have been neat to have an independent journalist investigate the business behind this decision. Hopefully slasher or ESFI can write and interesting article about this and what that part you quoted means exactly.
Agree. Would be nice if statements from tournament organizers didnt look like the Clinton Trials. Also why did Kevin Knocke post it? Doesnt he have a boss or something that can post this news? Reminds me of Season 2 finals in Leugue Of Legends when djWheat had to apologize for Riot.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Dude, it's understandable that you're upset, but you're making a few too many assumptions there. If IPL where banking any serious money off of interest, they wouldn't have canceled. And if they were rolling in piles of e-sports money, they wouldn't be trying to sell off IPL.
And you have no idea whether it was an issue of 'enough profit'. Maybe they had cash flow issues. Maybe they realized they could only continue at a massive loss and that there was a lot of esports competition that weekend.
All viable explanations. But that justifies abusing your customers?
Also, the fact of keeping any money from interest, a penny to thousands of dollars, is irrelevant. It comes down to morality. I understand that it would be very complicated and expensive for the owners/directors to figure out the interest for everyone and be able to pay it back. A substitute, like a free shirt, free tickets, free something, would be a lot better than; sorry about that, better luck next time.
And that brings up another good point... Why don't we have an idea? The official announcement is :
On March 05 2013 09:52 IGNProLeague wrote:When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
If they don't want us to assume certain things, like what you said, cash flow issues, or what I said, not enough profits to be worth it, then they should have explained to their consumers a little better. How big of a slap in the face would it be if say, Apple just canceled their next iPhone launch and all they said was : A couple years ago it was a different scene. Other companies are selling their own phones now, so, we aren't ready to really commit to our new one. Sorry.
It would be outrageous, just like how this is.
I'm really not as upset as my tone is making me seem, but I'm just really at awe by how poorly managed this cancellation is. Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware and understand that businesses need to cut corners and make the correct move every single time, or else the ship sinks, which is what they did, but don't fib to us. Don't give us some half ass answer, and nothing in return but a, sorry about that.
On March 05 2013 12:15 MrRicewife wrote: Unbelievable.
Why can't business owners just be honest?
What you should have said: We don't think we will get enough profit out of this event. So, we are canceling it. Sorry about that. Oh, the refund will come, you know, sometime within 10 days or whatever. Oh ya, all the interest we made off of your money, we're going to keep so... You know, thanks.
I will NOT be purchasing anything in the future that has ANYTHING to do with you guys. Also, way to show us what you really think about Esports. As if you are there for any other reason but profit. For shame.
Again, you've lost a customer for Hots. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.
You sound like you're young and don't know much about the real world. What interest are you talking about? What leads you to believe they don't care at all about esports? And what business is not motivated by profits? You expect IPL to invest millions just for their passion?
Lol... you are getting personal, why?? You don't know anything about me, yet you make the presumption I am younger than you? That's childish..
They have no obligation to explain to you with any further detail why they are backing out of doing this event or any other one for that matter. I understand you are upset about the cancellation but you need to just get over it.
You sir, are correct! They have no obligation what-so-ever. In turn, that may piss some people off, or at the least, lose faith in their organization. Which, I am, and have. Where you are wrong is that I need to get over it. It's a free world (well most parts) and I'm allowed to express my opinion. Don't take that away from me. I can just say, if you don't enjoy what I am saying, just get over it. That's rude, so I won't.
Of course people are gonna lose faith in them and that's expected. All I've seen you do is type out these tinfoil hat theories over this when you don't even have all the facts. You readily admit you aren't gonna get them yet here you are. Did you really expect to be coddled when you typed all that garbage in this thread?
Far from tinfoil hat theories man... It's pretty logical. A company taking profit first over their fans/customers/regulars. A lot of businesses fail because they can't see they are trying to build a base to stand on, they just keep building on top of a fragile ground until this shit happens. Good companies will accept a loss to please their customers and in turn maintain a relationship with them.
Why do people get so personal? Is it because you know you are wrong, and you have to attack at a personal level? I haven't typed any garbage. I could go to the very extremes and say insane, illogical, silly stuff and still, I would be correct because the management left the door open for such an attack.
I don't understand what "...gonna get them, yet here you are.." means.
And no, of fucking course not, I did NOT expect to be coddled. I expect a reasonable explanation of why I have to cancel a fucking plane ticket, get a refund and wait, ALL ON MY DIME. Instead, I get some half ass, bullshit story of, oh the scene has changed and ya, we can't compete anymore because we have poor visionaries at our company and couldn't predict that this event wouldn't bring in the revenue that was expected. And because of that, we are going to shit on all our customers who were expecting a service, which we STILL could do, but we don't want to be loyal and appreciative of them, so we will just pull the carpet out from their feet and say sorry.
I really don't expect an appropriate response from you, considering you have attacked me twice now, and haven't really said much about what's at issue.
Edit: Here is another thing, by the way... Sure, the customers who have the money are getting screwed pretty hard with no just reasoning (or maybe, but no explanation??). But not many people even think about the players who:
a)were really looking forward to playing in this tournament b)practiced non-fucking-stop c)told their family, organized rides and times and inconvenienced others, told their girlfriends this and that etc made huge plans
all for nothing.
Again, we all get it. Sometimes things happen, but to just say oh, the scene changed and you know.. sorry about that. peace love and chicken grease....
That's unfair, unjust and rude. A slap in the consumers and players faces.
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
well if the team wakes up to their brand getting sold and their product getting scrapped, I could sympathize
however these scene shrinking, esport making no money are yesterday news. I mean, who didnt know it long before? The only organization that is forced to make sc2 successful is GOM (but thats another story). IGN or whoever businesses are not supposed to operate this amateur.
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
well if the team wakes up to their brand getting sold and their product getting scrapped, I could sympathize
however these scene shrinking, esport making no money are yesterday news. I mean, who didnt know it long before? The only organization that is forced to make sc2 successful is GOM (but thats another story). IGN or whoever businesses are not supposed to operate this amateur.
Thank you Really. From the bottom of my heart. Someone who I can reason with.
Who the fuck was running IPL. Obviously someone who has zero experience of running a business. Or someone who just flat out didn't care enough about other people/fan base/players.
How incompetent do you have to be to not see so slightly into the future to not set up a massive tournament and then pull the plug last minute?? If I was running the show, or any decent human being for that matter (oh god I'm going to be crucified) I would have manned the fuck up, eaten the cost, and given one hell of a last show. It's not even a loss, it's a learning experience. Failures are the testament of success. I guaran-fucking-tee the next go around, they won't be so naive, but unfortunately in this case, it was at the cost of us and not them. Which shows a greasy company, over a true honest one.
When all the domino's are stacked up, and pretty much already falling, what kind of person puts their foot in front of the last one to save it??
On March 05 2013 10:55 Defacer wrote:
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
I hope the crew and staff continue to be cast and produce great stuff. IGN still had some fun ideas to implement but I guess that´s the end of their esport department.
Probably the best SC2 event gone, cause LoL-section messed up? This is so sad...
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Seems like it was not an SC2 problem in the first place... Other events can make money with SC2, obviously!
Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
This is really fucking sad and every CS player here remembers how the same shit began with CGS. "Supporting LoL also supports ESPORTS", about that right...
On March 05 2013 09:56 Loomies wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. "
Hmm...
Game Publishers are following Riot's example of hosting their own tournaments. Honestly, the way publishers like Riot are handling their business operations is very bad for eSports. It's more of a "get rich quick" sort of mentality, rather than a real contribution to eSports. Big time players like IPL who are looking to not only support eSports, but also benefit from it and help it expand can not get what they need when the publishers of the titles they wish to support handle their game affairs so strictly and recklessly.
Riot is the biggest example of What Not To Do If You Want eSports To Succeed.
Don't get me wrong, I like playing LoL, but I really wish it would stop getting support as an eSports title, as it is corrupting the scene.
I'd say they've been forced to do the statement after information was leaked regarding the cancellation. So perhaps the reasonings behind it aren't being given because they weren't prepared to say so yet. I know some people will say that it's easy to just say it has been cancelled, but there's so much behind such a big event, some promoters and sponsors may have to be talked to, teams, venue, hotels to refund the money, etc.
Regarding the whole they not being smart to please their fanbase. On one side, yes, they should take care of their fanbase that makes them what they are. On the other, they are businesses, they operate on cash flow and other variables. If their ticket sales/reservations/etc wasn't enough to cover the cost of holding such an event, they had to pull the plug. I agree it affects everyone who made the preparations and accommodations and such. But we are talking about a pretty big event. Going through with it may have cost IPL more than the benefit would bring. Even if that benefit is customer loyalty.
How many people will be outraged vs how many people will go next time they do one, if they rebound? Usually the loyalty and interest of people will outweigh the outrage. They gave their explanation, did their best to secure refunds for people. That's as much as they needed/wanted to do. Should they have given away a free thank you present as its been suggested? IDK, maybe some of those people would've cancelled anyways, they probably have statistics for that.
So I think they figure that they rather cancel, push through the negative response of the community and save their investment VS going through their event, take a big loss and keep the community happy. Because in the end the event is about SC, and whether people hate IPL for it or not, next time theres an event people will attend, both new and old. Because they will want to experience the tournament and everything it brings.
It's a bad decision for the fans, but to them it probably made sense.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
well if the team wakes up to their brand getting sold and their product getting scrapped, I could sympathize
however these scene shrinking, esport making no money are yesterday news. I mean, who didnt know it long before? The only organization that is forced to make sc2 successful is GOM (but thats another story). IGN or whoever businesses are not supposed to operate this amateur.
Thank you Really. From the bottom of my heart. Someone who I can reason with.
Who the fuck was running IPL. Obviously someone who has zero experience of running a business. Or someone who just flat out didn't care enough about other people/fan base/players.
How incompetent do you have to be to not see so slightly into the future to not set up a massive tournament and then pull the plug last minute?? If I was running the show, or any decent human being for that matter (oh god I'm going to be crucified) I would have manned the fuck up, eaten the cost, and given one hell of a last show. It's not even a loss, it's a learning experience. Failures are the testament of success. I guaran-fucking-tee the next go around, they won't be so naive, but unfortunately in this case, it was at the cost of us and not them. Which shows a greasy company, over a true honest one.
When all the domino's are stacked up, and pretty much already falling, what kind of person puts their foot in front of the last one to save it??
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
eSports is not headed in the right direction, thus IGN backed out. IGN is in trouble as it is, and eSports is not doing what it needs to do to stay so deeply involved. Honestly, your whole argument is invalid. You're just trying to bash someone for backing out of eSports without ACTUALLY taking a look at the reasons why.
Suffer in the interest of the future relationship with your customers...... They put a lot into the interest of their customers, but the bigger money maker was completely throwing shit out the window. This almost has no fault on SC2, although SC2 could be doing a lot of things better right now.
If the people involved with eSports were much less greedy, and much more willing to work for the benefit of eSports, then IGN wouldn't have backed out. Even though they are getting fucked elsewhere, they still wouldn't have backed out.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
What do you do in the SC2 section if you don't like the game? Are you that miserable?
And yeah, there are no "next big RTS". No one except Blizzard has made competitive RTS in 15 years now, I don't think that's coincedence.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
What next big RTS? Blizzard has free terrain in the competitive RTS market.
Really sad to hear. Hope you will find a new home soon. Nice that you refund everybody. Not every company is doing this nowadays if an event got canceled...
On March 05 2013 11:09 Doodsmack wrote: Sorry but someone has to say it:
It's good for the bubble to contract. This scene has way too many events. They all bring each other down and lose their significance when there's so many.
Yup, I agree. This also vindicates Sundance even more IMO. He's always stressed that there are too many unsustainable tournaments and tried to emphasize finding an actual profitable, sustainable model for tournaments while others just hemorrhaged money and hoped for the best. While there's some things about MLG I don't like, I really appreciate their business sense and realism.
True. IPL has really grown. From moderate online tournament to best event outside South Korea by fair margin (except - maybe - WCS Europe but that's kind of special case).
But on serious note, I've tried to teach/share sc2 with friends that have never played bw let alone an RTS, they find it too hard and even daunting. These are smart, well seasoned gamers that simply refuse to learn the beautiful game because it is NOT noob friendly. A game like sc2 with such a high skill ceiling needs longer and more detailed tutorials and support functions. Otherwise we will fade into insignificance and so will the RTS. More players = more interest = more viewers = stable business model.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
What next big RTS? Blizzard has free terrain in the competitive RTS market.
Well to be fair some are being made although one could argue that they will all fail, maybe one will surprise us.
CoH 1 was popular right?
"We'd love to see Company of Heroes 2 become an eSports title. We're definitely going to see what we can do to facilitate making that happen."
Planetary Annihilation has the kick starter hype. (plus LAN promised!)
The design of the replay system is critical for eSports which is one of the reasons we are putting so much work into making it great.
Fundamentally I'm trying to build a base game and an engine that is flexible and scalable. I expect that the community will help to figure out under which conditions and game modes the game is best played from a competitive aspect. For example the esports version of WC3 is called Dota.
Command and Conquer is free to play which LoL shows can help if they do it right. (Or destroy it if they do it wrong)
As well as multiplayer deathmatch and co-operative modes, Van Caneghem mentioned that the team are integrating e-sports features. “We’re really going to run the gambit of what people enjoy in a multiplayer environment,” he said.
“I don’t think we’re making a list of the features yet, but I think you can basically make a list of the assumed ones that you’d need to be an e-sports game, and it’s definitely part of the plan.”
So, a spectator mode with a free camera mode, shoutcast support, tournament support? We’ll have to wait and see.
On March 05 2013 19:21 Chinnro wrote: Only Terran can save sc2.....
But on serious note, I've tried to teach/share sc2 with friends that have never played bw let alone an RTS, they find it too hard and even daunting. These are smart, well seasoned gamers that simply refuse to learn the beautiful game because it is NOT noob friendly. A game like sc2 with such a high skill ceiling needs longer and more detailed tutorials and support functions. Otherwise we will fade into insignificance and so will the RTS. More players = more interest = more viewers = stable business model.
Well that's why LoL has so stellar presence. In HotS beta there were some tutorials for competitive online play that hugely reminded me tutorials in LoL. I don't know if they are sufficient, though.
On March 05 2013 11:09 Doodsmack wrote: Sorry but someone has to say it:
It's good for the bubble to contract. This scene has way too many events. They all bring each other down and lose their significance when there's so many.
Yup, I agree. This also vindicates Sundance even more IMO. He's always stressed that there are too many unsustainable tournaments and tried to emphasize finding an actual profitable, sustainable model for tournaments while others just hemorrhaged money and hoped for the best. While there's some things about MLG I don't like, I really appreciate their business sense and realism.
I think it's a good thing, too. It wouldn't hurt for tournaments to learn how to produce more content more cost-effectively, and for viewers to get used to more modest productions.
Think about the personalities and 'entities' that really helped SC2 explode. It wasn't big organizations like MLG or NASL. It was things like State of the Game, the Day9 Daily, Husky and HD that really bridged the gap, and drew in people that never watched BW into the e-sports scene.
What I always liked about NASL now is that they brought in guys like Mr. Bitter and Rotterdam, and seem to be making a genuine effort to produce content that helps promote and support the tournaments.
1/ IPL 5 was one of the best event ever. Hence I was expecting IPL 6 so bad 2/ The competition between IPL and MLG was pushing both companies to improve their tournaments. Will MLG still willing to be better and better now that they have a monopoly (at least in NA) ? 3/ The fall of IPL might weakened a bit GSL as they partnered up. And considering that KeSPA is now in SC2, we need anything but a weakened GSL 4/ Great talents like Kevin Knokke are needed in our community. Let's hope he will be involved in another organisation if this cancellation is the downfall of IPL.
The most pressing issue is this nevertheless :
On March 05 2013 09:59 Entirety wrote: What will happen to IPTL Finals that were to be played at IPL 6?
On March 05 2013 19:21 Chinnro wrote: Only Terran can save sc2.....
But on serious note, I've tried to teach/share sc2 with friends that have never played bw let alone an RTS, they find it too hard and even daunting. These are smart, well seasoned gamers that simply refuse to learn the beautiful game because it is NOT noob friendly. A game like sc2 with such a high skill ceiling needs longer and more detailed tutorials and support functions. Otherwise we will fade into insignificance and so will the RTS. More players = more interest = more viewers = stable business model.
HOTS' new features like Matchmaking AI's which functions as a ladder for Player versus AI, where the difficulty of the AI goes either up or down depending on the player's results.
Another very noob friendly feature is the 3 stage training mode which tells the player exactly what to do, from building SCVs, building supply depots, barracks, army, scout and take map control, all this in 3 stages of training.
This was so amazing that once 2.x hit on WOL I bought the game for my 10 year old brother and he is picking things up extremely fast with these new features.
Now you have Campaign, Training mode, the Versus AI, the old challenges, the old basic tutorials, the "Help" menu explaining buildings and units including strengths and weaknesses.
All this should really be enough noob friendliness or features for people with ladder anxiety to practice until they feel comfortable enough to compete on ladder.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
I expect a little renewed interest when Legacy of the Void is finally released
The success of Starcraft in South Korea is widely attributed to a unique combination of several complementary factors: the government rollout of high speed broadband; economic pressure keeping people at home; post-war reluctance to purchase Japanese consoles and easy access to computers through ‘pc bangs’.
I think I stole the information from another article but yeah, all you need to do is recreate these circumstances.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
Get CatsPajamas to take over the proleague casts for the love of god, this guy is talented, needs a good job and would do a hell of a lot better than the current situation!
No seriously, IPL should have come clean about this and blocked furhter ticket orders days ago when SirScoots spread the rumour of IPL's cancellation. This feels like one of the worst kept secrets in esports.
I have no respect for IGN thanks to this delay. I have no respect for Ziff Davis Media either after what they supposedly did to TechTV and now IPL.
"Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. You should also know that we are working on finding a new home for the IPL team and IGN will continue to broadcast partner tournaments in the future."
Blizzard like runs a single tournament every year. I'm not entirely sure if this isn't entirely just BS answer they gave us. However I don't know how League runs.
On March 05 2013 23:41 Pucca wrote: "Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event. You should also know that we are working on finding a new home for the IPL team and IGN will continue to broadcast partner tournaments in the future."
Blizzard like runs a single tournament every year. I'm not entirely sure if this isn't entirely just BS answer they gave us. However I don't know how League runs.
Of course it is a BS answer. Riot runs the LCS every week but if there is a partner event like IEM, MLG or IPL the LCS matches are at the event and some LCS teams can still participate in the tournament. And even if that would be reason for the cancellation they know that riot will run their own league since the end of season 2.
This is a sad announcement for me. IPL1 was the first competitive gaming event I ever watched and what introduced me to esports. I enjoyed all the live IPL events even though they weren't all perfect.
With that said, this has nothing to do with SC2, or Riot games and League of Legends. It is entirely due to the fact that there is new management at IGN who is not interested in an esports venture and more concerned with cutting costs then anything else. It's business, plain and simple. Unfortunately I feel like the announcement was handled in an amateur fashion, being both brief and late. IPL should have been honest with it's customers as soon as they knew the event would have to be cancelled and an announcement should have been made by David Ting himself rather then leaving Kevin Knocke to do this by himself.
I don't know what is in store for IPL in the future, I can only imagine it will be no more as that seems to be the goal of new management, but I hope that the hardworking crew that made the IPL possible all find continued success in the esports industry.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
On March 06 2013 00:27 Pantagruel wrote: With that said, this has nothing to do with SC2, or Riot games and League of Legends. It is entirely due to the fact that there is new management at IGN who is not interested in an esports venture and more concerned with cutting costs then anything else. It's business, plain and simple.
I wish everyone would understand that. I mean, an SC2 and LoL tournament gets cancelled and people argue that means SC2 is dying because of LoL. Literally.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
Wow, that's complete nonsense plus Apple evangelism in one.
On a side note - Microsoft is still king in office environment and in gaming world. And that's where are people really loyal to them.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Actually he isn't wrong. The majority of businesses make their money not from first or one time customers but repeat business. His example of Microsoft is a good one as is companies like McDonald's or Walmart. They make money because people keep coming back and they keep coming back because they've built a relationship with those people where they get what they want and know what to expect from the company. People who regularly shop at Walmart know how much they can expect to spend on groceries there each week with only minor variations and know what kind of quality to expect in the products they purchase.
Walmart sometimes has to take losses in order to keep the customer happy because they know, long term, that they will make far more money if they replace the returned item than if they piss off the customer who never returns to purchase another one. Now from what I understand, IGN isn't going out of business but the IPL which is simply a part of them is. Backing out on their customers does far more damage than simply the cost of that or those customers. IGN is forever associated with the IPL. Therefore when IPL makes a customer angry, IGN has to deal with it. They have to bite the cost. These people talk. If you go to Walmart to buy some new clothes and while you are there you see an irate customer complaining because they sold him a bad TV then shut down their electronics department and don't make it right, you will probably think twice about giving your business to them. If they don't care about one customer, all the rest are just as unimportant and normally bankruptcy is just around the corner. Nobody shops at a store that doesn't follow the saying, "the customer is always right."
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Actually he isn't wrong. The majority of businesses make their money not from first or one time customers but repeat business. His example of Microsoft is a good one as is companies like McDonald's or Walmart. They make money because people keep coming back and they keep coming back because they've built a relationship with those people where they get what they want and know what to expect from the company. People who regularly shop at Walmart know how much they can expect to spend on groceries there each week with only minor variations and know what kind of quality to expect in the products they purchase.
Walmart sometimes has to take losses in order to keep the customer happy because they know, long term, that they will make far more money if they replace the returned item than if they piss off the customer who never returns to purchase another one. Now from what I understand, IGN isn't going out of business but the IPL which is simply a part of them is. Backing out on their customers does far more damage than simply the cost of that or those customers. IGN is forever associated with the IPL. Therefore when IPL makes a customer angry, IGN has to deal with it. They have to bite the cost. These people talk. If you go to Walmart to buy some new clothes and while you are there you see an irate customer complaining because they sold him a bad TV then shut down their electronics department and don't make it right, you will probably think twice about giving your business to them. If they don't care about one customer, all the rest are just as unimportant and normally bankruptcy is just around the corner. Nobody shops at a store that doesn't follow the saying, "the customer is always right."
So you're saying IPL shouldn't go out of business because it pisses off their customers? What if they don't have the money to go on and don't expect to become profitable? Businesses that don't make money can't exist FYI. The purpose of a business is to make money, not to donate charity to a cause they're passionate about. I can't believe you need this explained to you lol.
I always knew this kind of thing could eventually disappear. IPL started out with ZERO BUDGET and was basically a pet project of IGN. Eventually the man upstairs would stop funding this endeavor and poof its gone.
On March 06 2013 01:11 Butterednuts wrote: Damn. I loved watching the IPL events. Guess all we have left in the US is MLG.
Meh, don't forget NASL. But yes MLG will likely continue to dominate the scene as far as frequency of events and *crosses fingers* holding a live offline open bracket sans Dallas.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Actually he isn't wrong. The majority of businesses make their money not from first or one time customers but repeat business. His example of Microsoft is a good one as is companies like McDonald's or Walmart. They make money because people keep coming back and they keep coming back because they've built a relationship with those people where they get what they want and know what to expect from the company. People who regularly shop at Walmart know how much they can expect to spend on groceries there each week with only minor variations and know what kind of quality to expect in the products they purchase.
Walmart sometimes has to take losses in order to keep the customer happy because they know, long term, that they will make far more money if they replace the returned item than if they piss off the customer who never returns to purchase another one. Now from what I understand, IGN isn't going out of business but the IPL which is simply a part of them is. Backing out on their customers does far more damage than simply the cost of that or those customers. IGN is forever associated with the IPL. Therefore when IPL makes a customer angry, IGN has to deal with it. They have to bite the cost. These people talk. If you go to Walmart to buy some new clothes and while you are there you see an irate customer complaining because they sold him a bad TV then shut down their electronics department and don't make it right, you will probably think twice about giving your business to them. If they don't care about one customer, all the rest are just as unimportant and normally bankruptcy is just around the corner. Nobody shops at a store that doesn't follow the saying, "the customer is always right."
So you're saying IPL shouldn't go out of business because it pisses off their customers? What if they don't have the money to go on and don't expect to become profitable? Businesses that don't make money can't exist FYI. The purpose of a business is to make money, not to donate charity to a cause they're passionate about. I can't believe you need this explained to you lol.
Nope, he's saying it's fine if they go out of business, but to handle this as ass backwards as they did pretty much burned a lot of bridges for people.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Again, with these personal attacks, why can't anyone just debate properly anymore? Anyway...
I won't bother explaining why you're wrong, simply because Magic_Mike made it quite clear why you are. I will answer your question though. Your potato example is kind of a poor example of what we are talking about, but I know what you were trying to say. If said potato farm (my farm) promised a lot of regular customers that they were going to hold a potato convention (in hopes to make money from selling potatoes to them, potato merchandise, etc), and because my staff is so incompetent that last minute we realized it would be a flop, YES, I would still run the convention. 100% without even thinking.
Why? Because I'm not a stupid idiot who can't vision the future. Who realizes that a dollar is valuable, but customer appreciation and relationship is invaluable a word that most people in this thread seem to be lacking in their vocab.
Now, I must correct you about your Steve Jobs comment. It's very clear to me that you didn't read his autobiography, written by a respectable, trusting author, someone who doesn't stretch facts to make the story better, but someone who paints a picture black and white without anything hidden in the wood works; Walter Isaacson. Just that book alone should have shown you that Steve Jobs did in fact, as you immaturely put, "gave a flying shit". I'm not even going to get into his motivations of why he created apple, and why he left, why he came back, why he innovated entire industries etc etc. I just want to make it clear, that that man did care about what everyone else thought. And that is exactly, and in large, why Apple was successful. A true visionary is invaluable, and the rewards are endless, as proven by said company, and many others, as Magic_Mike so kindly pointed out. In other words, read a book before you say something, because that's just silly, and it makes you look ignorant.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
Wow, that's complete nonsense plus Apple evangelism in one.
On a side note - Microsoft is still king in office environment and in gaming world. And that's where are people really loyal to them.
Oh, sorry. I am so glad you took the time to elaborate and explain why it is non-sense. I can see clearly now, and I digress. Thank you for pointing out how nonsensical everything I said was, I feel so foolish now.... :/
On a side note - Microsoft is not king, lol. I'm very happy you decided to provide evidence on your claim though. I'll just post a little something, because oddly enough, it conflicts to your hardcore evidence: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/ In case you don't feel like taking that long journey by clicking on another link and, gasp, reading... I'll summarize for you: Microsoft, in a decade, has lost market share from 97% to 20% in a decade or so. How you define market share, is really up to you, but how I define it as, is the Lion's share in certain industries. And when you total them all up, OS sales, Phones, Gaming, Tablets, Subscriptions, Music, etc... Microsoft was at the very top with an impressive monopoly, and crashed and burned because they simply just weren't listening to us. They were pumping out shit products, and gave the worst response : you can have any color you want, as long as it's black. Well, that just gives a huge opportunity for a hungry businessman to come in and eat you alive, which is what has happened the last 15 years to Microsoft. Failure after failure, and now look at Microsoft... struggling in comparison to their competition. Almost a riches to rags.
This was all because they just couldn't understand that consumers aren't stupid, or if we are, at least we know what we want. So listen to us. And if you don't want to do that, at the very least, trick us into thinking it's what we want, kind of like what Apple has done. Granted the products they produce are still very good, just extremely controlled, which in turn, is costing them a lot of business to Google. A company which really stands alone at listening to what the consumer wants and actually gives them what they want. Let's see here... hmm... yup, google is still rich, and expanding. Kind of the opposite of the king, Microsoft x.x
One thing that you said was slightly correct, yes, I'm somewhat of an Apple fanboy as you will. Do I own any apple products? No actually. Have I? Yes, but I sold those products and moved on to a company who treats me right and listens to me. But I do appreciate a good company, Apple, so in turn you will see me evangelize that company, sure.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Actually he isn't wrong. The majority of businesses make their money not from first or one time customers but repeat business. His example of Microsoft is a good one as is companies like McDonald's or Walmart. They make money because people keep coming back and they keep coming back because they've built a relationship with those people where they get what they want and know what to expect from the company. People who regularly shop at Walmart know how much they can expect to spend on groceries there each week with only minor variations and know what kind of quality to expect in the products they purchase.
Walmart sometimes has to take losses in order to keep the customer happy because they know, long term, that they will make far more money if they replace the returned item than if they piss off the customer who never returns to purchase another one. Now from what I understand, IGN isn't going out of business but the IPL which is simply a part of them is. Backing out on their customers does far more damage than simply the cost of that or those customers. IGN is forever associated with the IPL. Therefore when IPL makes a customer angry, IGN has to deal with it. They have to bite the cost. These people talk. If you go to Walmart to buy some new clothes and while you are there you see an irate customer complaining because they sold him a bad TV then shut down their electronics department and don't make it right, you will probably think twice about giving your business to them. If they don't care about one customer, all the rest are just as unimportant and normally bankruptcy is just around the corner. Nobody shops at a store that doesn't follow the saying, "the customer is always right."
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Actually he isn't wrong. The majority of businesses make their money not from first or one time customers but repeat business. His example of Microsoft is a good one as is companies like McDonald's or Walmart. They make money because people keep coming back and they keep coming back because they've built a relationship with those people where they get what they want and know what to expect from the company. People who regularly shop at Walmart know how much they can expect to spend on groceries there each week with only minor variations and know what kind of quality to expect in the products they purchase.
Walmart sometimes has to take losses in order to keep the customer happy because they know, long term, that they will make far more money if they replace the returned item than if they piss off the customer who never returns to purchase another one. Now from what I understand, IGN isn't going out of business but the IPL which is simply a part of them is. Backing out on their customers does far more damage than simply the cost of that or those customers. IGN is forever associated with the IPL. Therefore when IPL makes a customer angry, IGN has to deal with it. They have to bite the cost. These people talk. If you go to Walmart to buy some new clothes and while you are there you see an irate customer complaining because they sold him a bad TV then shut down their electronics department and don't make it right, you will probably think twice about giving your business to them. If they don't care about one customer, all the rest are just as unimportant and normally bankruptcy is just around the corner. Nobody shops at a store that doesn't follow the saying, "the customer is always right."
So you're saying IPL shouldn't go out of business because it pisses off their customers? What if they don't have the money to go on and don't expect to become profitable? Businesses that don't make money can't exist FYI. The purpose of a business is to make money, not to donate charity to a cause they're passionate about. I can't believe you need this explained to you lol.
What aren't you getting here? He obviously doesn't need to be explained that. And in part, you are wrong. There are non-profit businesses, there are businesses driven by other things other than profit. If you mean typically, yes, a business is meant to generate profit by any means. But what you aren't grasping is if you want the biggest profit of all, you build a relationship with your customer. READ what he is saying, don't just get emotional and respond with some smart-ass response like that.
I will provide an example: if you rip off your customer one time, yes, you will make a huge profit. But when that money dries up, and you go out to rip off another customer, people talk, and they won't be fooled again. Trust is broken, and the cost of building broken trust is ten fold to any profit.
When I went to high school, grade 10, I worked for McDonald's. The best job I've ever had. They taught me so many things, I was blown away. I came to that job thinking I was going to be a burger flipper, but I left a businessman. In their hiring package it actually states, "bend down and speak with children eye to eye, they are the most important customer out of any customer Mcdonald's has, simply because they are the future." Those children who don't have a dime to their name, will feed the Mcdonald's corporation someday. If you instill a wonderful, fun, enjoyable environment to children, it becomes part of their childhood. And in turn, you don't need to even worry about those people anymore, as they are now lifetime customers. Not some one trick pony operation like IGN/IPL. Like I said before, they lost a customer for HOTS. Do you see how cannibalistic it is to abuse your customers? Now they lost someone forever when a brand new expansion is coming out, simply because they are immoral and couldn't man up. Or hell, maybe they couldn't have, maybe they were so flat broke, but then they just provide us with some BP oil spill bullshit. "sorry".
Give me a break. Why defend these guys anyway? I'm not going to let them slap my face and then turn my cheek for another one (no, i'm not christian so don't bother lol).
On March 05 2013 11:44 MVega wrote: I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:55 Defacer wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
You mean XP? Earning skins? Non-ladder 1v1?
I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but trust me — the philosophy of balancing for pro players is really, really holding back what the game designers can do creatively.
For example: Lurkers. Everyone loves lurkers. Everyone wants lurkers. They already have models of them, for crying out loud. But they can't just give players lurkers without affecting game balance.
Imagine if there was a totally separate ladder — let's call it Wood league — where players earn (or buy!) XP, and can unlock lurkers, or Massive Queens, and Science Vessels, or Odins. You can have island maps, giant maps, all-gold maps or maps with all the destructible and collapsible imba BS you want.
It would be an entirely broken, ridiculous ladder separate from the real 'pro' ladder ... but it would also be a lot of fun, with a lot of incentive for complete newbs to grind away and earn skins, spells or entire units.
Re-reading through the older posts now and I have to say, something that's not necessarily meant to be broken, but just meant to be FUN would be great for SC2. The only reason why I can't consistently play SC2 is because I don't want to play with the mindset of "I have to get better or I'll keep losing". That's simply because in SC2, I feel like the only fun comes from winning. At my level, I just can't make creative strategies work because I am lacking in mechanics, and I would be too far behind my opponent.
In LoL, I can do whatever stupid shit I want, laugh about with friends - I can talk about team games another time - and probably still win because the game is so much easier mechanically, and as long as I can keep my basic mechanics (last hitting) up, I'll probably still win despite having an awful item build.
That said, if something like what the quoted poster proposed was introduced, and I could enjoy it in 1v1 as well as with friends in customs or team ladders, then I would probably play SC2 just a bit more. But on top of that, you should still be able to "earn" something in these joke ladders. Achievements simply aren't enough anymore. Introduce an in-game currency that the casual players have an equal shot of earning, and make the incentives something that you could enjoy showing off to others (e.g. radioactive skin for my banelings, ice shards for the spines my lurkers fire, etc.).
This statement really should have been made earlier. If I was going to a tournament like this, I definitely would book the tickets at least a month in advance. I imagine many people got screwed over because of the statement being made so late.
Oh about the statement itself... Game organizers hosting their own tournaments is referring to Riot and Valve, I guess? Or did Blizzard start hosting one?
I imagine prize pools could be cut somewhat if the tournaments aren't profitable... I'd imagine there to be many things that would reduce costs if you optimize it :/
Relatively unfortunate but this was seen coming a while ago.
To everyone that purchased airfare that is over 21:
At least this is a good time to go to Las Vegas and enjoy. Maybe you can win some money with the money you were going to spend on the IPL ticket and amenities.
Back on subject, this is really sad that one of the larger North American tournaments is seemingly going up in flames. I really hope that they can reestablish IPL.
Ricewife - what's the reasoning behind your assumption that the cancellation is the result of IPL employees realizing at the last minute that the event would be a flop? Please explain why we should discount the possibility that they needed the financial backing of IGN (now ZD) in order to run the event.
I can't say I'm not surprised, after the multiple $100k tournaments for random games. Why would you host a $100k tournament for a game that had less than a total of 20k players, hasn't had any viewer numbers in the past history, was in beta, made by a totally unknown company?
Well, I guess that's a good, but expensive, lesson to learn. Pro Tip: Do some research before wasting $100k then ending up only getting a peak of 2k viewers during the grand finals.
On March 06 2013 04:11 SamanthaRain wrote: I can't say I'm not surprised, after the multiple $100k tournaments for random games. Why would you host a $100k tournament for a game that had less than a total of 20k players, hasn't had any viewer numbers in the past history, was in beta, made by a totally unknown company?
Well, I guess that's a good, but expensive, lesson to learn. Pro Tip: Do some research before wasting $100k then ending up only getting a peak of 2k viewers during the grand finals.
It's sad that IPL is the first major tournament to fold. I thought their production value and their casting crew was one of the best non-GSL ones and I really like their shows. At least I think this will fight the oversaturation a little so the other events have the potential for more viewership. Alas, IPL was the one that stumbled first
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Again, with these personal attacks, why can't anyone just debate properly anymore? Anyway...
I won't bother explaining why you're wrong, simply because Magic_Mike made it quite clear why you are. I will answer your question though. Your potato example is kind of a poor example of what we are talking about, but I know what you were trying to say. If said potato farm (my farm) promised a lot of regular customers that they were going to hold a potato convention (in hopes to make money from selling potatoes to them, potato merchandise, etc), and because my staff is so incompetent that last minute we realized it would be a flop, YES, I would still run the convention. 100% without even thinking.
Why? Because I'm not a stupid idiot who can't vision the future. Who realizes that a dollar is valuable, but customer appreciation and relationship is invaluable a word that most people in this thread seem to be lacking in their vocab.
Now, I must correct you about your Steve Jobs comment. It's very clear to me that you didn't read his autobiography, written by a respectable, trusting author, someone who doesn't stretch facts to make the story better, but someone who paints a picture black and white without anything hidden in the wood works; Walter Isaacson. Just that book alone should have shown you that Steve Jobs did in fact, as you immaturely put, "gave a flying shit". I'm not even going to get into his motivations of why he created apple, and why he left, why he came back, why he innovated entire industries etc etc. I just want to make it clear, that that man did care about what everyone else thought. And that is exactly, and in large, why Apple was successful. A true visionary is invaluable, and the rewards are endless, as proven by said company, and many others, as Magic_Mike so kindly pointed out. In other words, read a book before you say something, because that's just silly, and it makes you look ignorant.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
Wow, that's complete nonsense plus Apple evangelism in one.
On a side note - Microsoft is still king in office environment and in gaming world. And that's where are people really loyal to them.
Oh, sorry. I am so glad you took the time to elaborate and explain why it is non-sense. I can see clearly now, and I digress. Thank you for pointing out how nonsensical everything I said was, I feel so foolish now.... :/
On a side note - Microsoft is not king, lol. I'm very happy you decided to provide evidence on your claim though. I'll just post a little something, because oddly enough, it conflicts to your hardcore evidence: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/ In case you don't feel like taking that long journey by clicking on another link and, gasp, reading... I'll summarize for you: Microsoft, in a decade, has lost market share from 97% to 20% in a decade or so. How you define market share, is really up to you, but how I define it as, is the Lion's share in certain industries. And when you total them all up, OS sales, Phones, Gaming, Tablets, Subscriptions, Music, etc... Microsoft was at the very top with an impressive monopoly, and crashed and burned because they simply just weren't listening to us. They were pumping out shit products, and gave the worst response : you can have any color you want, as long as it's black. Well, that just gives a huge opportunity for a hungry businessman to come in and eat you alive, which is what has happened the last 15 years to Microsoft. Failure after failure, and now look at Microsoft... struggling in comparison to their competition. Almost a riches to rags.
This was all because they just couldn't understand that consumers aren't stupid, or if we are, at least we know what we want. So listen to us. And if you don't want to do that, at the very least, trick us into thinking it's what we want, kind of like what Apple has done. Granted the products they produce are still very good, just extremely controlled, which in turn, is costing them a lot of business to Google. A company which really stands alone at listening to what the consumer wants and actually gives them what they want. Let's see here... hmm... yup, google is still rich, and expanding. Kind of the opposite of the king, Microsoft x.x
One thing that you said was slightly correct, yes, I'm somewhat of an Apple fanboy as you will. Do I own any apple products? No actually. Have I? Yes, but I sold those products and moved on to a company who treats me right and listens to me. But I do appreciate a good company, Apple, so in turn you will see me evangelize that company, sure.
Taken from your forbes link:
What these numbers really reflect is the change in what is being considered a computing device. Which might indeed be a valid way of looking at things: I think we can all see a day coming, and coming soon, when a desktop PC is just not considered an essential piece of equipment at all."
So in other words, Apple is still losing in the corporate and gaming sector, get over it fanboi. BTW, just because you have to "cook the books" to prove your point makes your entire argument flawed and invalid. GG =D.
Sad to hear, IPL 5 was one of the absolute greatest SC2 events, and i think they crew did a awesome job. Really sad to see it go down, but it's understandable and it was expected.
Good to hear they are giving full refunds, feel bad for all the people who booked flights.
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Seriously tho, you believe we will sit here 2023 watching sc2 as an "esport"? :p
I expect a little renewed interest when Legacy of the Void is finally released
We went from $5,000 online StarCraft 2 tournaments to one of the world’s best and largest eSports events.
I guess that is were it went wrong... wanting it all too fast. I never understood how one could host in a deluxe hotel in Vegas and have huge prizepools with the relatively small number of e-sports viewers, it just seemed so out of balance.
I feel bad for all the folks who had already booked flights though.
I'm surprised no one's mentioning the fact that IGN just got sold for less than the 100 million asking price. Considering in 05 it was bought for over 650 million. It seems to suggest IGN is in a lot of trouble atm. After a situation like this it's pretty common for the purchased company to be stripped down quite a bit and then rebuilt.
On March 06 2013 04:35 HiTeK532 wrote: I'm surprised no one's mentioning the fact that IGN just got sold for less than the 100 million asking price. Considering in 05 it was bought for over 650 million. It seems to suggest IGN is in a lot of trouble atm. After a situation like this it's pretty common for the purchased company to be stripped down quite a bit and then rebuilt.
I remember actually using IGN back in the day to look up cheats, reviews, and information regarding upcoming releases. These days I can't even remember the last time I used them for anything other then what has been given to me by a random google search for older game cheat codes.
On March 05 2013 11:44 MVega wrote: I knew, I just knew some people would somehow try to blame this on StarCraft. Blaming this on LoL is equally ridiculous though. Plain and simply this was a business decision. They couldn't justify the cost of the event and somehow figured that it would be cheaper to cancel the event this close to it than to go through with it.
Honestly I don't blame them. Viewership for both LoL and StarCraft would likely have been at much lower levels than they'd have liked. LoL because of a competing event, and StarCraft because weeks after HotS launch very few people are going to want to watch the WoL portions of the event.
I don't like how IGN handled this situation at all. That said it's a lose-lose for them, and they took the smaller loss.
On March 05 2013 10:55 Defacer wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:33 Arceus wrote: So they basically find out that this event could not yield returns and back the fuck out last minute.
I mean, really? Did they do any market research and shit or just pour money in and cancel whenever it doesnt seem ok?
Step back for a moment and put yourself in there shoes.
a) Run an expensive videogame tournament and hemorrhage money because you said you would. b) Piss off the fan base of a market that's shrinking anyways.
It sucks ass, but the decision in this case in obvious. A majority of HOTS' features caters strictly to increasingly diehard fans. They should have pulled the cord earlier, but hey, firing and downsizing an entire team is a tough pill to swallow for any company.
So you haven't been paying attention to HotS at all then? Most of the HotS features cater to the casual players. The stuff for the hardcore fans is already solid.
You mean XP? Earning skins? Non-ladder 1v1?
I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but trust me — the philosophy of balancing for pro players is really, really holding back what the game designers can do creatively.
For example: Lurkers. Everyone loves lurkers. Everyone wants lurkers. They already have models of them, for crying out loud. But they can't just give players lurkers without affecting game balance.
Imagine if there was a totally separate ladder — let's call it Wood league — where players earn (or buy!) XP, and can unlock lurkers, or Massive Queens, and Science Vessels, or Odins. You can have island maps, giant maps, all-gold maps or maps with all the destructible and collapsible imba BS you want.
It would be an entirely broken, ridiculous ladder separate from the real 'pro' ladder ... but it would also be a lot of fun, with a lot of incentive for complete newbs to grind away and earn skins, spells or entire units.
Re-reading through the older posts now and I have to say, something that's not necessarily meant to be broken, but just meant to be FUN would be great for SC2. The only reason why I can't consistently play SC2 is because I don't want to play with the mindset of "I have to get better or I'll keep losing". That's simply because in SC2, I feel like the only fun comes from winning. At my level, I just can't make creative strategies work because I am lacking in mechanics, and I would be too far behind my opponent.
In LoL, I can do whatever stupid shit I want, laugh about with friends - I can talk about team games another time - and probably still win because the game is so much easier mechanically, and as long as I can keep my basic mechanics (last hitting) up, I'll probably still win despite having an awful item build.
That said, if something like what the quoted poster proposed was introduced, and I could enjoy it in 1v1 as well as with friends in customs or team ladders, then I would probably play SC2 just a bit more. But on top of that, you should still be able to "earn" something in these joke ladders. Achievements simply aren't enough anymore. Introduce an in-game currency that the casual players have an equal shot of earning, and make the incentives something that you could enjoy showing off to others (e.g. radioactive skin for my banelings, ice shards for the spines my lurkers fire, etc.).
Thanks. The problem with SC2 right now is that you actually have to be good at it to enjoy it. There are some players that will ALWAYS be gold players, no matter how many hours they dump into it.
They really should provide a separate game experience that doesn't just reward skill, but it rewards simple participation. Call it the Wood league or Beer League or whatever, but just create an environment where you can earn and trade in XP, even when you lose, for real in-game benefits.
That way a compete newb can lose 8 games in a row, but then trade away all his XP for 2000m/2000 gas or a mothership at the start of his next game, win an easy game and HAVE FUN.
On March 06 2013 04:11 SamanthaRain wrote: I can't say I'm not surprised, after the multiple $100k tournaments for random games. Why would you host a $100k tournament for a game that had less than a total of 20k players, hasn't had any viewer numbers in the past history, was in beta, made by a totally unknown company?
Well, I guess that's a good, but expensive, lesson to learn. Pro Tip: Do some research before wasting $100k then ending up only getting a peak of 2k viewers during the grand finals.
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Again, with these personal attacks, why can't anyone just debate properly anymore? Anyway...
I won't bother explaining why you're wrong, simply because Magic_Mike made it quite clear why you are. I will answer your question though. Your potato example is kind of a poor example of what we are talking about, but I know what you were trying to say. If said potato farm (my farm) promised a lot of regular customers that they were going to hold a potato convention (in hopes to make money from selling potatoes to them, potato merchandise, etc), and because my staff is so incompetent that last minute we realized it would be a flop, YES, I would still run the convention. 100% without even thinking.
Why? Because I'm not a stupid idiot who can't vision the future. Who realizes that a dollar is valuable, but customer appreciation and relationship is invaluable a word that most people in this thread seem to be lacking in their vocab.
Now, I must correct you about your Steve Jobs comment. It's very clear to me that you didn't read his autobiography, written by a respectable, trusting author, someone who doesn't stretch facts to make the story better, but someone who paints a picture black and white without anything hidden in the wood works; Walter Isaacson. Just that book alone should have shown you that Steve Jobs did in fact, as you immaturely put, "gave a flying shit". I'm not even going to get into his motivations of why he created apple, and why he left, why he came back, why he innovated entire industries etc etc. I just want to make it clear, that that man did care about what everyone else thought. And that is exactly, and in large, why Apple was successful. A true visionary is invaluable, and the rewards are endless, as proven by said company, and many others, as Magic_Mike so kindly pointed out. In other words, read a book before you say something, because that's just silly, and it makes you look ignorant.
On March 06 2013 00:51 nimdil wrote:
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
Wow, that's complete nonsense plus Apple evangelism in one.
On a side note - Microsoft is still king in office environment and in gaming world. And that's where are people really loyal to them.
Oh, sorry. I am so glad you took the time to elaborate and explain why it is non-sense. I can see clearly now, and I digress. Thank you for pointing out how nonsensical everything I said was, I feel so foolish now.... :/
On a side note - Microsoft is not king, lol. I'm very happy you decided to provide evidence on your claim though. I'll just post a little something, because oddly enough, it conflicts to your hardcore evidence: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/ In case you don't feel like taking that long journey by clicking on another link and, gasp, reading... I'll summarize for you: Microsoft, in a decade, has lost market share from 97% to 20% in a decade or so. How you define market share, is really up to you, but how I define it as, is the Lion's share in certain industries. And when you total them all up, OS sales, Phones, Gaming, Tablets, Subscriptions, Music, etc... Microsoft was at the very top with an impressive monopoly, and crashed and burned because they simply just weren't listening to us. They were pumping out shit products, and gave the worst response : you can have any color you want, as long as it's black. Well, that just gives a huge opportunity for a hungry businessman to come in and eat you alive, which is what has happened the last 15 years to Microsoft. Failure after failure, and now look at Microsoft... struggling in comparison to their competition. Almost a riches to rags.
This was all because they just couldn't understand that consumers aren't stupid, or if we are, at least we know what we want. So listen to us. And if you don't want to do that, at the very least, trick us into thinking it's what we want, kind of like what Apple has done. Granted the products they produce are still very good, just extremely controlled, which in turn, is costing them a lot of business to Google. A company which really stands alone at listening to what the consumer wants and actually gives them what they want. Let's see here... hmm... yup, google is still rich, and expanding. Kind of the opposite of the king, Microsoft x.x
One thing that you said was slightly correct, yes, I'm somewhat of an Apple fanboy as you will. Do I own any apple products? No actually. Have I? Yes, but I sold those products and moved on to a company who treats me right and listens to me. But I do appreciate a good company, Apple, so in turn you will see me evangelize that company, sure.
What these numbers really reflect is the change in what is being considered a computing device. Which might indeed be a valid way of looking at things: I think we can all see a day coming, and coming soon, when a desktop PC is just not considered an essential piece of equipment at all."
So in other words, Apple is still losing in the corporate and gaming sector, get over it fanboi. BTW, just because you have to "cook the books" to prove your point makes your entire argument flawed and invalid. GG =D.
What the hell... That wasn't my point at all. I never said they were the top, or champions or anything. My point was Microsoft is not king, and I said that because their work practices coincide vaguely with what IPL did just recently.
Stop derailing this thread, and why call me a fanboi? That's just rude, and I don't own any apple products so how am I supposed to be one anyway?
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
LOL. You're nuts. I wouldn't bleed a crapload of money just to keep a bunch of people happy. You're basically saying they should bleed their backers' money even though they know they won't break even. Would you bleed money if you knew a potato farm you invested in was going under regardless? I love some french fries man. You should show me some love.
Also, if you think Steve Jobs gave a flying shit what anyone else thought, you have an amazing talent at revising history.
Again, with these personal attacks, why can't anyone just debate properly anymore? Anyway...
I won't bother explaining why you're wrong, simply because Magic_Mike made it quite clear why you are. I will answer your question though. Your potato example is kind of a poor example of what we are talking about, but I know what you were trying to say. If said potato farm (my farm) promised a lot of regular customers that they were going to hold a potato convention (in hopes to make money from selling potatoes to them, potato merchandise, etc), and because my staff is so incompetent that last minute we realized it would be a flop, YES, I would still run the convention. 100% without even thinking.
Why? Because I'm not a stupid idiot who can't vision the future. Who realizes that a dollar is valuable, but customer appreciation and relationship is invaluable a word that most people in this thread seem to be lacking in their vocab.
Now, I must correct you about your Steve Jobs comment. It's very clear to me that you didn't read his autobiography, written by a respectable, trusting author, someone who doesn't stretch facts to make the story better, but someone who paints a picture black and white without anything hidden in the wood works; Walter Isaacson. Just that book alone should have shown you that Steve Jobs did in fact, as you immaturely put, "gave a flying shit". I'm not even going to get into his motivations of why he created apple, and why he left, why he came back, why he innovated entire industries etc etc. I just want to make it clear, that that man did care about what everyone else thought. And that is exactly, and in large, why Apple was successful. A true visionary is invaluable, and the rewards are endless, as proven by said company, and many others, as Magic_Mike so kindly pointed out. In other words, read a book before you say something, because that's just silly, and it makes you look ignorant.
On March 06 2013 00:51 nimdil wrote:
On March 05 2013 17:34 MrRicewife wrote: By the way, The decision must not be obvious because you're wrong. If you knew what capitalism was about, you would have to agree building a trusting relationship with your customers is just as important as expanding and growing. The two go hand in hand. So yes, sometimes you have to suffer in the interest of the future relationship you create with your customers. In this case, IPL took the ez way out, and now is left with a lot of disappointed customers.
If you care to disagree, Microsoft is an example: Slowly but surely, they have been ignoring the demands of what people want. They have been failing to listen, and in turn, gave up what was essentially (and legally at one point) a monopoly to Apple. Which is a company that one man worked at who could understand just how important it was to please their customer, or at the very least convince them that they care.
Wow, that's complete nonsense plus Apple evangelism in one.
On a side note - Microsoft is still king in office environment and in gaming world. And that's where are people really loyal to them.
Oh, sorry. I am so glad you took the time to elaborate and explain why it is non-sense. I can see clearly now, and I digress. Thank you for pointing out how nonsensical everything I said was, I feel so foolish now.... :/
On a side note - Microsoft is not king, lol. I'm very happy you decided to provide evidence on your claim though. I'll just post a little something, because oddly enough, it conflicts to your hardcore evidence: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/ In case you don't feel like taking that long journey by clicking on another link and, gasp, reading... I'll summarize for you: Microsoft, in a decade, has lost market share from 97% to 20% in a decade or so. How you define market share, is really up to you, but how I define it as, is the Lion's share in certain industries. And when you total them all up, OS sales, Phones, Gaming, Tablets, Subscriptions, Music, etc... Microsoft was at the very top with an impressive monopoly, and crashed and burned because they simply just weren't listening to us. They were pumping out shit products, and gave the worst response : you can have any color you want, as long as it's black. Well, that just gives a huge opportunity for a hungry businessman to come in and eat you alive, which is what has happened the last 15 years to Microsoft. Failure after failure, and now look at Microsoft... struggling in comparison to their competition. Almost a riches to rags.
This was all because they just couldn't understand that consumers aren't stupid, or if we are, at least we know what we want. So listen to us. And if you don't want to do that, at the very least, trick us into thinking it's what we want, kind of like what Apple has done. Granted the products they produce are still very good, just extremely controlled, which in turn, is costing them a lot of business to Google. A company which really stands alone at listening to what the consumer wants and actually gives them what they want. Let's see here... hmm... yup, google is still rich, and expanding. Kind of the opposite of the king, Microsoft x.x
One thing that you said was slightly correct, yes, I'm somewhat of an Apple fanboy as you will. Do I own any apple products? No actually. Have I? Yes, but I sold those products and moved on to a company who treats me right and listens to me. But I do appreciate a good company, Apple, so in turn you will see me evangelize that company, sure.
Taken from your forbes link:
What these numbers really reflect is the change in what is being considered a computing device. Which might indeed be a valid way of looking at things: I think we can all see a day coming, and coming soon, when a desktop PC is just not considered an essential piece of equipment at all."
So in other words, Apple is still losing in the corporate and gaming sector, get over it fanboi. BTW, just because you have to "cook the books" to prove your point makes your entire argument flawed and invalid. GG =D.
What the hell... That wasn't my point at all. I never said they were the top, or champions or anything. My point was Microsoft is not king, and I said that because their work practices coincide vaguely with what IPL did just recently.
Stop derailing this thread, and why call me a fanboi? That's just rude, and I don't own any apple products so how am I supposed to be one anyway?
Posts that covers PAGES. Emotion response about every comment. Incorruptible confidence in himself.
"game publishers are holding their own tournaments" that is such a stupid reason, oh because riot has to pay for every tournament for their horrible game that means no ipl screwing over sc2 and potential other games like dota or cs that could be implemented.
On March 06 2013 04:11 SamanthaRain wrote: I can't say I'm not surprised, after the multiple $100k tournaments for random games. Why would you host a $100k tournament for a game that had less than a total of 20k players, hasn't had any viewer numbers in the past history, was in beta, made by a totally unknown company?
Well, I guess that's a good, but expensive, lesson to learn. Pro Tip: Do some research before wasting $100k then ending up only getting a peak of 2k viewers during the grand finals.
You think IPL put up the money for the Shootmania tournament? I'm sorry to pop your bubble, but that money was put up by Ubisoft (publisher) to promote the game, which was the reason IPL picked up the game. They were paid to do so by Ubisoft.
It helps if you know what you're talking about.
Also, Nadeo (developer) isn't exactly a totally unknown company unless you've been living under a rock for quite some time. Trackmania pretty much ruled the world of racing games.
David Ting acknowledged "no promises" should Newscorp sell IGN.com. He knew IPL was losing buckets of cash and that upper management was providing a show of faith because "the IPL sounds really cool". And the live events were.
The new owners are unwilling to lose a tonne of cash for more than 1 year with only a "hope" they "might" make money sometime in the future.
Whatever IPL morphs into I don't think we'll see any events on the scale and quality of IPL3 and IPL5.
Maybe some online only stuff.
Watching MLG pick the bones clean from the newly dying IPL body shows you that Sundance Digiovanni is indeed attempting to be the VInce Mcmahon of eSports.
On March 06 2013 04:22 ACrow wrote: It's sad that IPL is the first major tournament to fold. I thought their production value and their casting crew was one of the best non-GSL ones and I really like their shows. At least I think this will fight the oversaturation a little so the other events have the potential for more viewership. Alas, IPL was the one that stumbled first
Stumbled first in the SCII LoL era.
There is numerous large scale tournaments that have eventually feel on their face for various reasons through out the history of competitive gaming.
The lurkers idea and odin on a new called "Wood" league idea. Wouldnt that be what custome games are for in the Arcade? To have FUN!?
I understand you all want abit of competitive gaming with old units, but wait for HotS release and wait for it. Someone will end up making match maps with lurkers, odins and whatnot. They you can have fun.
Regarding the fact that one should be able to gain XP when losing, that's what happens in HotS now. Granted there's no way to trade it. But Blizzard at least made it so you dont feel like you didnt earn anything more than a loss.
The trading thing would be fun, and some people have asked for it, so who knows maybe in the future, but I dont think its a priority since not many people ask for it. Just some.
Again, I'd say the amount of people outraged will be overcome by new players and people who will keep playing and are content with the game.
Balance patches will happen to address broken issues.
Regarding IPL and IGN. Its very sad the path that they are in now, but arguing over it over and over really won't help them and it just causes frustration and fights within the community. It happened, they have their reasons, if theres community backlash it's kind of too late to prevent it, so what has to happen will happen.
Crappy news it really crappy, but I guess it was expected. I really hope the IPL crew finds a good home. Like almost everyone here I really, really enjoy what these guys have done. They've been one of the best run and most innovative leagues over the last few years.
My god its gotten so bad around here. Bitter BW fans teaming up with LoL fans to grasp at every drop of data, no matter how out of context in the grand scheme of things, in order to either breakdown the SC2 scene or raise up their own. Why cant people just enjoy their game without needing to destroy all the others? Part of me sees stuff like this and wishes ages were posted next to names so we can at least get an idea of someone is seriously contributing or being a hormonal immature ass.
When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
On inside the game incontrol pointed out that this is probably bullshit, and encouraged us to be more skeptical of official statements so investors don't think we are all dumb or easily fooled and future announcements will be more truthful.
It makes sense that the actual reason for being cancelled has more to do with the transition of being sold off and not a sudden realization that things were different two years ago at the last minute so cancel everything.
Also that part about game publishers is not on the ign page for the announcement so it is very suspicious why there are two different versions. This is why we need an unbiased esports reporter to get the scoop and clear this up!
When we launched IPL two years ago, the eSports landscape was very different with far fewer events than we have now. Today, game publishers are holding their own tournaments, which is why we are not ready to commit the resources at this time to run another major independent event.
On inside the game incontrol pointed our that this is probably bullshit, and encouraged us to be more skeptical of official statements so investors don't think we are all dumb or easily fooled and future announcements will be more truthful.
It makes sense that the actual reason for being cancelled has more to do with the transition of being sold off and not a sudden realization that things were different two years ago at the last minute so cancel everything.
Also that part about game publishers is not on the ign page for the announcement so it is very suspicious why there are two different versions. This is why we need an unbiased esports reporter to get the scoop and clear this up!
Exactly.
This is obviously related to the Ziff Dafis buyout. I mean, look at all the other cuts they have made since they took over IGN. IPL is just one of the many things they've cut.
When these business analyst guys come in, axing millions of dollars in projects, they don't sit down and go "hmm, we think the eSports landscape is different than it was two years ago". They look at a spreadsheet that says IPL made/lost X amount of dollars over the last 4 quarters. It didn't meet the threshold to keep it alive, so they killed it.
This is obviously related to the Ziff Dafis buyout. I mean, look at all the other cuts they have made since they took over IGN. IPL is just one of the many things they've cut.
When these business analyst guys come in, axing millions of dollars in projects, they don't sit down and go "hmm, we think the eSports landscape is different than it was two years ago". They look at a spreadsheet that says IPL made/lost X amount of dollars over the last 4 quarters. It didn't meet the threshold to keep it alive, so they killed it.
early in 2012 David Ting claimed IPL was well on its way to profitability in 2012 and that he looked forward to paying back the "debt" he had built up with the "mothership" IGN/Newscorp. He stated he is not legally obligated to "pay back the losses", but he wanted to do this as a show of good faith.
Then, in early 2013 he acknowledged that making a profit would be part of a "5 year plan".. it would take 5 years to make IPL profitable.
I think it was the "spreadsheet" thing you are talking about here... combined with the changing profit projections of David Ting.
It is ironic that early in IPL's life Ting stated many times "its all about monetization" and now we can't get the PR guys to admit what every one knows. This is a money decision pure and simple.
This is obviously related to the Ziff Dafis buyout. I mean, look at all the other cuts they have made since they took over IGN. IPL is just one of the many things they've cut.
When these business analyst guys come in, axing millions of dollars in projects, they don't sit down and go "hmm, we think the eSports landscape is different than it was two years ago". They look at a spreadsheet that says IPL made/lost X amount of dollars over the last 4 quarters. It didn't meet the threshold to keep it alive, so they killed it.
early in 2012 David Ting claimed IPL was well on its way to profitability in 2012 and that he looked forward to paying back the "debt" he had built up with the "mothership" IGN/Newscorp. He stated he is not legally obligated to "pay back the losses", but he wanted to do this as a show of good faith.
Then, in early 2013 he acknowledged that making a profit would be part of a "5 year plan".. it would take 5 years to make IPL profitable.
I think it was the "spreadsheet" thing you are talking about here... combined with the changing profit projections of David Ting.
It is ironic that early in IPL's life Ting stated many times "its all about monetization" and now we can't get the PR guys to admit what every one knows. This is a money decision pure and simple.
I'll probably will get shit on for this ... but I don't begrudge Ziff Davis OR IGN for not being more candid about the cancellation of the tournament. What difference does it make? There are many reasons why IPL is unprofitable — the bottom line is that it is. Might as well go with the least depressing reason.
It's pretty odd to hear Geoff tear into IGN for be 'dishonest' or spinning the truth. As a member or EG, he knows the value and importance of communicating with an agenda and with discretion. Inside the Game is essentially a corporate sponsored PR delivery system. Communicating diplomatically about your business decisions to the public is the whole point of PR.
For example, when EG decided to 'part ways' with StrifeCro and Axslav I don't remember reading the 'real, no-fluff' reason why they were let go.
What good does honesty do for anyone in this situation? Really, the only people that are entitled to it are paying customers.
This is business. No business owner or operator in their right mind is going to spoon feed you truth-bombs if it's going to hurt their reputation or image. If you care enough as a consumer, it's easy enough to read between the lines.
By the sounds of things David Ting was:
1) running a poorly planned and unviable business 2) with massive overhead 3) that was manufacturing a wonderful product 4) with a small, unprofitable market 5) split by four major competitors.
No parent company invests millions and millions of dollars into a business with a five year plan that doesn't break even. Most greedy investors expect a return of 200 to 400% in five years! They rarely get it, but its fair to expect at least a steady and reliable source of revenue. Obviously, David and IGN were banking on SC2 being the next Poker, not the next ... SC Broodwar.
David Ting may have been good at broadcast production, making pretty graphics and pampering players, but that's all really easy to do when you're hemorrhaging money and operating as a loss leader for a couple of years. I don't feel bad for IPL, or players, or IGN, or their critics. I only feel bad for people that booked non-refundable airline tickets and got screwed over.
Edit: If David and IGN were banking on the market for SC2 to grow significantly in five years to validate their business model, it's hard to fault any investor for balking at that assumption.
Interesting to see IGN/IPL active again. $100,000 shootmania launch tourny. Hmm. Not sure what to think now. They apparently arent getting completely shut down (unless shootmania, ubisoft and their sponsors are fronting most of the costs). At the same time it looks kinda bad imo to be flaunting a huge prize pool tourny immediately after cancelling a (though much bigger) large event. Certainly this is much cheaper than hosting IPL (it in IPL's home city, theatre as opposed to casino, one game not 3 etc). Granted, I also feel that it is good that they are going to just try and rebound after losing IPL6.
On March 07 2013 03:08 Rowrin wrote: Interesting to see IGN/IPL active again. $100,000 shootmania launch tourny. Hmm. Not sure what to think now. They apparently arent getting completely shut down (unless shootmania, ubisoft and their sponsors are fronting most of the costs). At the same time it looks kinda bad imo to be flaunting a huge prize pool tourny immediately after cancelling a (though much bigger) large event. Certainly this is much cheaper than hosting IPL (it in IPL's home city, theatre as opposed to casino, one game not 3 etc). Granted, I also feel that it is good that they are going to just try and rebound after losing IPL6.
Shootmania is production paid for and sponsored by the game developer. They're doing work-for-hire, I think.
On March 07 2013 03:00 Defacer wrote: By the sounds of things David Ting was:
1) running a poorly planned and unviable business 2) with massive overhead 3) that was manufacturing a wonderful product 4) with a small, unprofitable market 5) split by four major competitors.
David Ting is probably far better at solving abstract math problems than Sundance Digiovanni, Don King, Vince Mcmahon and Dana White. We all know he is the worst live event promoter out of that group though. He is an engineer by profession and was and still is a fish out of water in his current position.
If there were real money in esports then real promoters would be in charge of creating its biggest events. Not engineers with hopes and dreams.
On March 07 2013 03:08 Rowrin wrote: Interesting to see IGN/IPL active again. $100,000 shootmania launch tourny. Hmm. Not sure what to think now. They apparently arent getting completely shut down (unless shootmania, ubisoft and their sponsors are fronting most of the costs). At the same time it looks kinda bad imo to be flaunting a huge prize pool tourny immediately after cancelling a (though much bigger) large event. Certainly this is much cheaper than hosting IPL (it in IPL's home city, theatre as opposed to casino, one game not 3 etc). Granted, I also feel that it is good that they are going to just try and rebound after losing IPL6.
Shootmania is production paid for and sponsored by the game developer. They're doing work-for-hire, I think.
That is likely the case since that was how they just did the sxsw. I want to feel good about this but at the same time... I mean it really rubs salt in the wound for people that are stuck in vegas now that there is an event to go to not 4 hours drive away, one week later.
On March 07 2013 03:08 Rowrin wrote: Interesting to see IGN/IPL active again. $100,000 shootmania launch tourny. Hmm. Not sure what to think now. They apparently arent getting completely shut down (unless shootmania, ubisoft and their sponsors are fronting most of the costs). At the same time it looks kinda bad imo to be flaunting a huge prize pool tourny immediately after cancelling a (though much bigger) large event. Certainly this is much cheaper than hosting IPL (it in IPL's home city, theatre as opposed to casino, one game not 3 etc). Granted, I also feel that it is good that they are going to just try and rebound after losing IPL6.
Shootmania is production paid for and sponsored by the game developer. They're doing work-for-hire, I think.
Yeah from what I remember Incontrol alluded to this on ITG-- apparently something similar happened with HoN on NASL. Most people don't realize it but the developer is actually a "sponsor" for the league using it as a marketing platform for their new game. So this is likely just Ubisoft's marketing $$ going towards another event after IPL6 got cancelled.
On March 07 2013 03:08 Rowrin wrote: Interesting to see IGN/IPL active again. $100,000 shootmania launch tourny. Hmm. Not sure what to think now. They apparently arent getting completely shut down (unless shootmania, ubisoft and their sponsors are fronting most of the costs). At the same time it looks kinda bad imo to be flaunting a huge prize pool tourny immediately after cancelling a (though much bigger) large event. Certainly this is much cheaper than hosting IPL (it in IPL's home city, theatre as opposed to casino, one game not 3 etc). Granted, I also feel that it is good that they are going to just try and rebound after losing IPL6.
It's hardly about rebounding, it's all about this event will largely be cheaper to host, and likely more so paid for by the developers etc.
The IPL staff is stuck doing whatever they are allowed/given to do. That doesn't mean anyone should support a company that would cancel a large scale event so close to it, with no real reason other then, we decided not to spend the money. At least until IPL can separate or find new ownership, I find it hard to support anything they do under IGN/ZD/J2G.
I still don't understand why IPL5 is praised like being the best event ever, and that it's all credited to IPL. GSL did all the production, which is half the work. Literally have not heard anybody mention GSL/GOM crew when IPL is regarded as the best event organizer around. Any reason?
If there were real money in esports then real promoters would be in charge of creating its biggest events. Not engineers with hopes and dreams.
Wow, that's a "no-fluff" and sober way of putting it.
Sundance has been working on legitimizing and making e-sports profitable for what ... ten years now? Putting on a travelling roadshow/convention is one thing, but I'm not sure if he's cracked the right formula for broadcasting SC2.
If there were real money in esports then real promoters would be in charge of creating its biggest events. Not engineers with hopes and dreams.
Wow, that's a "no-fluff" and sober way of putting it.
Sundance has been working on legitimizing and making e-sports profitable for what ... ten years now? Putting on a travelling roadshow/convention is one thing, but I'm not sure if he's cracked the right formula for broadcasting SC2.
The community always wants free entertainment, and events weren't getting enough for ticket fees. Streaming ads is only so much revenue.
On March 08 2013 01:08 lolwata wrote: i lost all respect for IPL
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Just ask your money.
But seriously that kind of sucks, though most airlines you can get partial refund or at least credit / bonus miles. If nothing else, it's a weekend at Vegas I guess.
On March 08 2013 01:07 lolwata wrote: so there is no way i can get my money back for this plane ticket?
Most airlines will let you cancel a nonrefundable ticket and use the value of it as credit for another flight within a year of the original travel date. You may have to pay a change fee to do this, which can be in the $100 range, but it's a preferable alternative to being out the money entirely with nothing to show for it.
It's pretty clear the reason for IPL jumping in was that they thought the SC2 audience was going to expand (hence their projected profits in a few years).
However, the SC2 audience has decreased over time (which is why they pushed back their profitability goals and ultimately have cancelled their league).
On March 08 2013 11:36 Corrik wrote: It's pretty clear the reason for IPL jumping in was that they thought the SC2 audience was going to expand (hence their projected profits in a few years).
However, the SC2 audience has decreased over time (which is why they pushed back their profitability goals and ultimately have cancelled their league).
= (
That's potentially a reason to stop running events in the future, not a reason to cancel an event so close to its live date, after dumping a stupidly massive amount of money into it.
On March 08 2013 11:36 Corrik wrote: It's pretty clear the reason for IPL jumping in was that they thought the SC2 audience was going to expand (hence their projected profits in a few years).
However, the SC2 audience has decreased over time (which is why they pushed back their profitability goals and ultimately have cancelled their league).
= (
apparently IPL only runs sc2 tournaments................
On March 08 2013 11:36 Corrik wrote: It's pretty clear the reason for IPL jumping in was that they thought the SC2 audience was going to expand (hence their projected profits in a few years).
However, the SC2 audience has decreased over time (which is why they pushed back their profitability goals and ultimately have cancelled their league).
= (
That's potentially a reason to stop running events in the future, not a reason to cancel an event so close to its live date, after dumping a stupidly massive amount of money into it.
You're on the wrong page.
Depends on the owner. If you're a new owner, and you see a department you bought has lost money for two straight years in a shrinking market, you don't care what's boiling on the stove right now. You might want to throw the entire kitchen out.
On March 08 2013 11:36 Corrik wrote: It's pretty clear the reason for IPL jumping in was that they thought the SC2 audience was going to expand (hence their projected profits in a few years).
However, the SC2 audience has decreased over time (which is why they pushed back their profitability goals and ultimately have cancelled their league).
= (
That's potentially a reason to stop running events in the future, not a reason to cancel an event so close to its live date, after dumping a stupidly massive amount of money into it.
You're on the wrong page.
Depends on the owner. If you're a new owner, and you see a department you bought has lost money for two straight years in a shrinking market, you don't care what's boiling on the stove right now. You might want to throw the entire kitchen out.
So Esports have been shrinking for the two past years? You might wanna clarify that a bit O_o
You guys put on some awesome events. Sad to see you go, don't know why the community didn't respect IPL like some of the other major events. It was well run with high production value.
Thank you for putting out quality content, and for your commitment to the starcraft scene.
Are there any news on what's happening to Fight club? It was my favorite stream to watch both live and rebroadcasts during weeks with no bigger tournaments
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
On March 13 2013 00:59 Ketch wrote: So, is this joking, or actually true:
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
On March 05 2013 18:21 samwise_the_brave wrote: sc2 is going to die !theire statement is total bs . when they would have wrote sth like :" sry but we cant make money with sc2" it would have been the truth .
Yeah, SC2 is going to die. In 10-15 years.
Rofl, the only reason that people still play SC2 is because of the BW legacy, that wont keep the game alive when the next big RTS drops.
Command & Conquer will be the next BW, is what you're saying?
On March 13 2013 00:59 Ketch wrote: So, is this joking, or actually true:
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
Axiom is American/British.
Anything that is even remotely related with Total Biscuit immediatly is British. Besides that, it would be great if Dreamhack would set foot into the North American scene.
On March 13 2013 00:59 Ketch wrote: So, is this joking, or actually true:
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
Axiom is American/British.
What is the American part? I thought it was (partially or initially) funded by TB and actively run by his wife?
On March 13 2013 00:59 Ketch wrote: So, is this joking, or actually true:
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
Axiom is American/British.
What is the American part? I thought it was (partially or initially) funded by TB and actively run by his wife?
The owner is American. TB is merely a sponsor. Also, TB is currently a permanent US resident, so you can kind of claim him, too.
On March 13 2013 00:59 Ketch wrote: So, is this joking, or actually true:
Shaun Clark @ApolloSC2 @SirScoots Just spoke a certain Swedish CEO.. IPL has a bright future Details
Scott Smith @SirScoots BREAKING: @ApolloSC2 confirms that DH has bought IPL and renamed it RakakaPL! cc: @robertohlen @dting888
Either way, Europe comes to the rescue again (prior incidences are Axiom taking all ex-Slayers under their wing and the same with Azubu with all the ex-oGs).
Axiom is American/British.
What is the American part? I thought it was (partially or initially) funded by TB and actively run by his wife?
EPT
hope the IPL crew all land on their feet. 
and in Europe and internationally, Dreamhack / IEM.![[image loading]](http://www.dreamstime.com/cancelled-stamp-thumb16310179.jpg)
