EPTWCS USA Runner-Up Daisuki maphacking? - Page 40
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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YumYumGranola
Canada346 Posts
On February 12 2013 06:06 Wpgstevo wrote: It might not be the best system, but there is literally no alternative. So while it would be nice to have a governing body to make sure penalties for cheating are uniform, right now its up to the organizers. In professional sports cheating is either a several year or lifetime ban. This is no different, other than the lack of a governing body to enforce. The infraction is the same. If you think cheating on ladder is okay, how about cheating in your peewee hockey team? Its just kids sports after all. Or how about the local chess club? Its not like big money is on the line. Guess what, you cheat in my local chess club, you are gone for good. It doesn't matter why you did it or how big or small the impact is. Professional sports have just as harsh or harsher punishments for this type of offense, pretending like several year or lifetime bans from sports don't exist is disingenuous. I don't disagree with the fact that permanent bans exist in sports. It could reasonably be argued that cheating is an offense that deserves expulsion from the scene. However I think that it's much too severe of a punishment to be handed down in such an obviously biased and inconsistent manner even if that means an unrepentant cheater gets to keep playing. In that situation ultimately the problem is that the community doesn't have an adequate system to deal with transgressions, not that somebody cheated. I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time. i hope this happens and it creates some more incentive for putting effort into creating a solid system that can root out hackers. i think lifetime ban for any hacking is good. it's not difficult. | ||
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LF[Media]
United States58 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On February 12 2013 06:55 LF[Media] wrote: The problem is, we have a lot of upstanding community members and players who HAVE cheated in the past but have reformed, and a lifetime ban for current and/or future transgressors seems unfair in that light. This presents an issue; we either look unfair, or we reinforce the idea that most hackers seem to hold true; "hacking is only wrong when you get caught". first of all when you make rules, it's not necessarily unfair to the people judged by previous rules in the past, in this scenario i don't think it is. secondly there's no need for us to be 'fair' to people who cheat. edit: but there is a need to find rules that the community as a whole can agree on. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time. There is only one way this can possible work and that is a governing body like Kespa that controls everything. | ||
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snam
Sweden78 Posts
On February 12 2013 07:07 Assirra wrote: There is only one way this can possible work and that is a governing body like Kespa that controls everything. Or if Blizzard would require people to follow it before they can organize a tournament. | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: THing is that lifetime ban is ostensibly the hardest punishment that can be handed out. If you reserve your hardest punishment for a an offence like this, how are you going to give out even harder punishments to bigger offences? If you do not reserve the hardest punishment for the worse crimes, you're giving the worse and relatively minor crimes the same punishment.I don't disagree with the fact that permanent bans exist in sports. It could reasonably be argued that cheating is an offense that deserves expulsion from the scene. However I think that it's much too severe of a punishment to be handed down in such an obviously biased and inconsistent manner even if that means an unrepentant cheater gets to keep playing. In that situation ultimately the problem is that the community doesn't have an adequate system to deal with transgressions, not that somebody cheated. Apart from that, this is like a lifetime ban from Gland Slams because you cheated in a friendly cup that was insignificant and had no monetary rewards, never going to happen. I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time. Why? Can't tournament make their own rules? If a tournament organizer doesn't agree with a certain rule he or she should be free to abstain from using it.The issue is the only way to force everyone to agree is to do it like KeSPA and every major sports regulating organ does it. They force tournaments and players to play by their rules because if you don't, they forbid their players to go to your tournament so it will always fail. Furthermore they require all tournaments to only allow players who have their licence. It's a very circular system: - tournaments have to play by their rules or they won't allow their players to go there. - players have to play by their rules or they won't allow their tournaments to accept them. That's the basic premise under which FIDE, NFL, FIFA, NBA, BDO, and KeSPA operate. It doesn't take a brain to realize that each and every one of those organizations is as corrupt as KeSPA. Power does that to people and there are no checks and balances here. I like a free market of competition more where tournaments are free to set their own rules, if they are unreasonable, players won't show up and people won't watch.. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
"i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so" sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking | ||
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
On February 12 2013 23:46 myRZeth wrote: in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so" sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking Thats a very poor attitude to have; if I was caught hacking or something, I would be very apologetic and definitely never say "I dont regret it" lol And understand that it takes YEARS for people to accept you back in the community, its not something that can just happen 3 days after the fact. He'll be forgiven if he proves to be clean for over a year, but until then he deserves the harsh criticism coming his way. Hackers in the past have been very sorry for their actions and EVENTUALLY were forgiven, they didnt say "I dont regret hacking" and expect to be accepted back a week later. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 13 2013 00:08 Kaden wrote: Thats a very poor attitude to have; if I was caught hacking or something, I would be very apologetic and definitely never say "I dont regret it" lol And understand that it takes YEARS for people to accept you back in the community, its not something that can just happen 3 days after the fact. He'll be forgiven if he proves to be clean for over a year, but until then he deserves the harsh criticism coming his way. Hackers in the past have been very sorry for their actions and EVENTUALLY were forgiven, they didnt say "I dont regret hacking" and expect to be accepted back a week later. From what i understand of the previous post that is more what the person is thinking Daisuki is saying rather then actually saying so i would take that with a gran of salt. | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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HTOMario
United States439 Posts
On February 13 2013 04:26 Sakray wrote: The worst part is that he was caught cheating, he admit it, asks after how many times he'll be "washed" from this, but keeps hacking. Is he still hacking? How do we know? | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
There are certain offenses in every sport or activity that result in a lifetime ban, and this needs to be one of them. | ||
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Pri1230
United Kingdom148 Posts
On February 12 2013 23:46 myRZeth wrote: in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so" sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking If thats true then it just shows how much of a scum bag he really is, ban was very much deserved. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On February 13 2013 08:55 iEchoic wrote: TL made the right decision with the ban, and I don't think the term 'scum' is hyperbolic. Maphacking is toxic to this community and the game. It cannot be compared to any other misconduct. The worst outcome from this situation would be if anyone left this spectacle with the impression that maphacking will result in anything less than being permanently banned from every aspect of the community. There are certain offenses in every sport or activity that result in a lifetime ban, and this needs to be one of them. Hacking goes against everything this community stands for, and I don't want to hear from this 'scum' ever again, and anyone who learns of this incident should take it as a warning that if you ever hack you will be caught and you will be exposed for what you are, and that will result and your permanent removal from the community. | ||
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
lol wow.. is this what he really said...????? shamelessness to the maximum | ||
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mainerd
United States347 Posts
On February 13 2013 09:06 SpecialistSc wrote: "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so" lol wow.. is this what he really said...????? shamelessness to the maximum He didn't say that, but it's a pretty good interpretation of his attitude according to what he's been posting on twitter imo. | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
On February 13 2013 09:00 CatNzHat wrote: No you won't, the majority of hackers roam free and never get caught? Did you read the op? He blatantly made no effort whatsoever to cover suspicion. It's very easy to cover your tracks a modicum better and suddenly you're only 'suspicious' and the topic that accuses you gets rightfully locked because it's not conclusive and you can't just shame people based on suspicion. So this guy has an uncanny spider sense online? Well, he obviously always blind counters your mutas because he sees the subtle queues of your gas timing and the amount of lings you make is his defence.and anyone who learns of this incident should take it as a warning that if you ever hack you will be caught The only two people thusfar caught for hacking in SC2 were both blatantly obvious and made no effort to cover their tracks. Unlike what some people want to believe, there is no connexion between lack of moral character and intelligence. Majority of hackers aren't stupid and cover their tracks better and will consequently never get caught. If you honestly think that Spades and Daisuki were the only ones you are being naïve. | ||
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