EPTAt least if we're talking about major things rather than some cute displays of BM such as not gg-ing or doing various ceremonies and other mostly game-related shenanigans.
Balance between Professionalism & Personality (AA) - Page 2
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
At least if we're talking about major things rather than some cute displays of BM such as not gg-ing or doing various ceremonies and other mostly game-related shenanigans. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:38 Talin wrote: My point still stands though. Of all the people who have had their instances of acting obnoxious and confrontational that I can think of, for most of them it's been all about a number of very isolated and highly publicized cases, rather than any kind of consistent behavior of that sort. At least if we're talking about major things rather than some cute displays of BM such as not gg-ing or doing various ceremonies and other mostly game-related shenanigans. Orb's stream used to be popular because of his rage Idra has well, as classic as his example is, tends to lean towards that sort of personality or confrontational viewpoint. Destiny obviously Galuzi used to have a small stint Do we put Dragon in there for trolling bronze-league players and doing shenanigans? (not sure). but it goes on, there aren't as many, but there are some examples. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
“I can’t think of a single time in the history of anything where people have had the same kind of “24/7″ access to celebrity-like figures. Sure, people like Tiger Woods and Tom Hanks have a twitter, but they are very, very carefully managed. You rarely see them doing things “for fun” in public, and when they are, it’s rare that there’s a camera or a spotlight on them. You don’t know how Tom Cruise acts with his personal friends; you don’t know what kind of dirty jokes Denzel Washington laughs at; you don’t know what Taylor Swift thinks about racial slurs. All of the incidents and drama that I mentioned earlier occurred via forums of communication (forum posts, streams, twitter) that 99.999% of the celebrity world doesn’t partake in.” A little bit of common sense would go a long way. It doesn't ask for much tack. A lot of these scenarios you listed could have been avoided. Teenager days should be behind a lot of these guys you listed too. For the younglings just entering the fray, they will have to learn up fast. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:02 shockaslim wrote: While I understand where you are going with this, this is actually the only thing I kind of have an issue with. What/who determines a "misrepresentation of the scene" rather than "misrepresentation of yourself". I understand that some players or kind of synonymous with Starcraft, but I think it is kind of garbage when a person 24/7 represents someone else rather than themselves when they do something "wrong". When Stephano made the joke about the 14 year old girl that was a clear representation of himself. Times where has forfeit tournaments because he is too tired to play is when he represents his team..........and people lately are having a very hard time making that line. Thus far, most issues that misrepresent the scene or yourself have been pretty obvious (at least for most). I think duties and responsibilities set by your team are the intertwining part of both yourself and your team. I'm sure you've heard: "When you look bad, you make us look bad" sort of line. It definitely has its relevance here. | ||
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ImustnotfeaR
United Kingdom154 Posts
If all the people who are making a career out of streaming were faceless they wouldnt make any money. And once they have a face then they are judged by the standards of the public laws of our countries, simply because they can be. The situation is fucked because it is the audience that everyone is making money off that is still faceless, and therefore unresponsible, although in Britain a politiian is sueing a random guy off twitter with the charge of slander for accusing him of being a paedophile with no evidence. The days of anonymity are over now people make money from the internet. Which is lame. To sum up i think Incontrols quote is the most perceptive. It is the presence of money that makes all of this an issue, as it creates a huge investment/risk. edit: sorry if this is a bit off topic..its def relevent. as the only way to hold someone truely accoutable- whether audience or professional is through the law courts ultimately. | ||
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Dubsy
Canada186 Posts
Bet he regret writing that. If your job is to let people watch you play online, don't do stupid shit online. Nobody is gonna be crowding around destiny's table at TGIF's trying to get a scoop. What orb or Stephano did is equivalent to yelling "SUCK MY BLACK DICK CRACKER" while being interviewed by Jim Nantz in the Butler Cabin. You probably shouldn't say stupid shit when your peak audience is watching, even if it's 1/100,000 of what a real celebrity has following them. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On January 05 2013 04:47 Torte de Lini wrote: I think if someone else had written what I quoted of Destiny, it'd hold the same truth. I'm saying his quote doesn't hold any truth, regardless of who wrote it or said it. You don't have to be a celebrity or a progamer to lose your job or damage your reputation through thoughtless actions on social media. | ||
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Ramone
Canada85 Posts
When I see people complaining heavily about the "lack of professionalism" in the sport, I wonder if they truly want a sterile corporate style SC2 scene that is completely politically correct and lacks any edge. Idra is a great example. He talks some smack, and has probably toed the line quite a few times...but I happen to love it! He calls it like he sees it. I don't always agree with him, but there's definitely something refreshing about listening to someone who doesn't sugarcoat things to cater to an audience. For all the Canadians out there, Don Cherry is a good personality to bring into this discussion. He's a senile old bastard who blatantly drops racial comments on national television, all while talking(read YELLING) over the half hearted objections of his more mild mannered partner (fuck Don Mclean for what he did to Burrows though). I don't really like Don Cherry that much, but obviously there's a huge chunk of the population that does because he's been on the air since 1981. This kind of edge exists, and 99% of people like it...but there's the ever present risk that it gets snuffed out by complainers before it gains enough momentum to be unstoppable. (like Don Cherry) Whenever I see people threatening to contact sponsors and try to get people fired/kicked off teams...it makes me mad. That's the equivalent to a 8 year old girl calling the police because her 10 year old brother pulled her hair. The proper course of action would be to tell your mummy that your big bad brother pulled your hair. In SC2, the proper course of action would be to contact the team directly and allow them to make their own judgements. The SC2 scene has a hard enough time finding sponsors as it is without some angst filled internet hero whining to them. By choosing to complain directly to sponsors, you may be successful in screwing over your target player/personality...but you've also HUGELY screwed over the SC2 scene at large. I doubt sponsors take much note of which player(s) are causing the "trouble," they likely paint the SC2 scene with one brush for the most part...In a corporate board room talking about sponsorships, trouble with player X, likely translates to trouble with team X...which is a very small step away from trouble with SC2 at large.... Cheers, Ramone | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
The eSports community could use some perspective. When someone says a bad word online, it's something to be concerned about (to some extent) but it's not a capital offense. It deserves punishment proportional to the severity of the act. Immediately demanding fines or job termination does not reflect well on the community because it displays a lack of due process, and reeks of vigilante, self-righteous nonsense. my 0.2. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:33 Shiori wrote: The biggest problem, IMO, is that the community has a blanket punishment for everything: mail the sponsors until someone is fired or (severely) punished. That's bullshit. In the real world, when you do something slanderous (by the way, nothing any progamers have done qualifies as actual slander afaik) we respond by sentencing you to what the law dictates. We do not burn down your house, steal your children, and rape your wife. We do not require your job to release you. We do not prevent you from finding work ever again. The eSports community could use some perspective. When someone says a bad word online, it's something to be concerned about (to some extent) but it's not a capital offense. It deserves punishment proportional to the severity of the act. Immediately demanding fines or job termination does not reflect well on the community because it displays a lack of due process, and reeks of vigilante, self-righteous nonsense. my 0.2. I think these outrageous approaches such as emailing sponsors are desperate calls for the teams to take action. Agreed on perspective, I think there is too much fear on what kills the idea of E-Sports and too little hope for what grows it. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:06 Torte de Lini wrote: I think these outrageous approaches such as emailing sponsors are desperate calls for the teams to take action. Agreed on perspective, I think there is too much fear on what kills the idea of E-Sports and too little hope for what grows it. I agree and I said this many times. Emailing sponsors is a call for action from the team. It just shows that it's necessary to have guidelines and rules in place for incidents like that. If teams would have set clear boundaries and (for examply monetary) punishments, they could have reacted much quicker (according to set rules and punishments), which would have prevented things like the emailing of sponsors. | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. Thus you can understand how it simply never dawns on the Orb's of the world that "Oh, maybe I shouldn't call every person I play online a nigger..." because they've never had to face the proverbial music for it up until that point. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:30 BuddhaMonk wrote: I think it's worth pointing how video gaming culture is unique and has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk. Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. Thus you can understand how it simply never dawns on the Orb's of the world that "Oh, maybe I shouldn't call every person I play online a nigger..." because they've never had to face the proverbial music for it up until that point. I think this is an aspect I failed to cover: anonymity and that plays a huge role between this and other cultural spheres ): | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN. When you tell others to show more personality defendants of the standard 'korean culture' lash out with YOU DONT GET IT, KeSPA style or nothing. Thank you for this article. | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On January 05 2013 10:07 Kazeyonoma wrote: I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN. Agree. I hate the "gaming culture is unique - DEAL WITH IT PRUDE" attitude that rears its ugly head amongst Destiny's zealots. It's not respectable, cool, interesting, unique, or articulate to use racial and homophobic epithets. You end up sounding like a kid. I don't think that's what most professional gamers are going for in terms of image. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On January 05 2013 10:07 Kazeyonoma wrote: MC has tons of personality, and is often loved by many people. MKP has personality for being emotional during matches. NONE OF WHICH have ever shown unprofessional behavior that the aforementioned in the article did that would get them fined/banned/etc. I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN. When you tell others to show more personality defendants of the standard 'korean culture' lash out with YOU DONT GET IT, KeSPA style or nothing. Thank you for this article. There are different kinds of personalities, and players become synonymous with them. If you take away Destiny's lack of professionalism which expresses his outward, unreserved, often times hostile personality, you're pretty much sucking out his soul. People like it because it's real -- turn Destiny into MC and it becomes fake. | ||
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desarrisc
Canada226 Posts
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bLueSkY)
New Zealand88 Posts
On January 05 2013 13:21 desarrisc wrote: A lot of the players train to win, and spend a large portion of their training time or in tournaments (job hours) in public scrutiny. I would hate to be feeling that every word I say or type or doodle in my workplace with my colleagues is recorded for everyone to judge me on. The issue with esports however is that there are basically little "gangs" of people who "bully" everyone else, and do whatever they like (unlike in real sports). What you pointed out above would actually indicate esports being at a stage where it is so well established that people actually put effort into going out of their way to follow it. Not that i'm flaming EG, but how they act is an example of how this industry is no way near reaching a point of professionalism that reflects whats present in the sports industry today. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 05 2013 16:02 bLueSkY) wrote: The issue with esports however is that there are basically little "gangs" of people who "bully" everyone else, and do whatever they like (unlike in real sports). What you pointed out above would actually indicate esports being at a stage where it is so well established that people actually put effort into going out of their way to follow it. Not that i'm flaming EG, but how they act is an example of how this industry is no way near reaching a point of professionalism that reflects whats present in the sports industry today. I'd love to hear your perception of this "gangs" and bully idea :B | ||
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Trojanoz
Australia22 Posts
This is a truly global community and as such there are a variety of norms and expectations. Respected characteristics in some countries are less respected in others. In the USA bragging and chest banging "trash talking" is more acceptable than in other countries where a little more humility is respected more. In a lot of Asian countries more is made out of been respectful to your opponent (well other people in general) then most western countries. Not sure what the average age of the Starcraft 2 community is but i think it would easily below 30 my guess about 26. I am sure there would be a considerably different view on some of the events listed in the OP if the average age of the community was 65. The age of the community plays a role. but it is also important because - In the international scene Starcraft 2 need a personality to brake into the mainstream - a good looking player that is passionate and articulate and very good at the game. One that big business can see as spokesperson for their company and one that is media friendly and one that is seen from the outside as professional but also one that has a generally liked personality. finding and nurturing such a person should be high on the list of those you have a vested interesting in developing E-sports. | ||
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