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The Armchair Athleticism critical series is an opinion-base article series regarding the issues and sociocultural deficiencies of the E-Sports and StarCraft scene. All articles are perceptive-base and revolving around my own experiences and understanding of the subculture.
+ Show Spoiler [summary introduction] +The Solo Trail – Unbeaten - Posted on October 20th, 2012Short version of credentials: - Manager of 5 progaming teams (50+ professional players)
- Writer for 11 E-sports websites (5 team sites + 4 organizations: 150+ docs/articles)
- Organizer or Contributor of 11 community events (74,000 viewers/attendants)
- Some video-editing for one or two organizations, nothing big, just twitch.tv highlight-editing, presentational writing, etc.
Why are you starting your own space? I was listening to the suggestions of several friends and I finally started this space after I hit a dead-end in my endeavours in E-Sports. I’m at a point where I am not really affiliated with anyone and now’s a better time than ever to do some opinion topics. Doing my own content meant I would be alone and would work around my own initiative, drive and interest. However, it also meant that I may do something that requires more work than I thought and I would be on my own. It meant that the community reception can be more direct and harsh towards me personally and my views as I would not be backed by some credible organization as when I was writer for some. In the end, this series that took me about a month of writing, editing, verification and re-writing will really be everything I’ve learned, observed and felt throughout my time. I started out with three pieces and ended up going to ten. All of them delve into inspecting the five perspectives of the scene: teams, tournaments, players, spectators and contributors. Ultimately, it aims to really take a strong look into the many issues that inhibit the StarCraft community and E-Sports culture.
The Balance between Professionalism & Personality - Posted on January 3rd, 2013
With the demand for both more tournaments in the local/regional/national/international scene as well as improved story-telling from said tournament organizers, the amount of exposure a player receives should rise. With more exposure means more public eyes on who they are, what they do, and what they say. This exposure and amount of viewership translates both to a varying level of expectancies and desires from a player (or personality). When it comes to the expectancies of professionalism of young adult professional gamers, the community standards are too high and too vague to properly determine. With insistence of etiquette over a digital space, the only area of one’s courtesies that can be seen publicly is personality; written or verbal. Personality in E-Sports is voiced more than acted out and thus manners are gauged more by the words communicated than some of the behind-the-scenes actions these iconic people do. This lopsidedness of perceived civility can often create a popular negative association with a person, despite their commendable actions within an organization. In other words, the public evaluates a person’s professionalism solely by what is seen as said (so they never account what someone does as well) and can often be too high and varied for someone to reasonably accommodate.
The other issue popular community members deal with when it comes to professionalism is when we consider the “audience”. Intended audience when something is first voice or written is not necessarily the general public and what is private communication ends up being public (but not expected to be). Below are several drama-related issues that spiked popularity on Reddit’s StarCraft subreddit. Some based on private communication caught through public means (though unintended), others spoke on a public level, but to be interpreted as emotionally private (meaning personal and not necessarily representative of their public professional attitude):
Reprimanding those who misbehave is something most support, however one’s career becomes “crucified” over misappropriation of language, unfavourable personal opinions or poor sportsmanship is often the eventual consequence for some prominent members. Reprimands are needed if the community dislikes circumstances such as Ex-Root Gaming player Destiny saying racist words on the pretense of personality; Team Liquid player NonY openly writing his discontent due to his frustration. Not all incidents are acceptable, but they’re all done with the public watching continuously and that, in of itself, poses a dilemma. Personal restraint is important and should be learned, but outlets to openly express one’s discontent are also essential. How a player can express themselves accordingly is something all teams will have to teach to the socially inept. Given how exposed these iconic figures are on a daily basis, the likelihood of them misbehaving in the past or present increase than that of other celebrity figures in mainstream worlds.
A few months ago, Destiny weighed in on this issue:
“I can’t think of a single time in the history of anything where people have had the same kind of “24/7″ access to celebrity-like figures. Sure, people like Tiger Woods and Tom Hanks have a twitter, but they are very, very carefully managed. You rarely see them doing things “for fun” in public, and when they are, it’s rare that there’s a camera or a spotlight on them. You don’t know how Tom Cruise acts with his personal friends; you don’t know what kind of dirty jokes Denzel Washington laughs at; you don’t know what Taylor Swift thinks about racial slurs.
All of the incidents and drama that I mentioned earlier occurred via forums of communication (forum posts, streams, twitter) that 99.999% of the celebrity world doesn’t partake in.”
What the community asks for is maturity and so a public ‘backlash’ over Reddit or Team Liquid, even to the greatest degree (i.e. contacting a team’s sponsor), is due to the community’s pressuring desire for two concepts:
1. an immediate response from the sponsoring organization about the situation.
2. Suitable Punishments. Maturity is the backbone of good public relation skills towards an emotionally-filled community. When players fail to portray maturity, the community feels compelled to show disapproval (if the team doesn’t first).
Though short, this piece determines three existing demands from teams and the community;
- Leniency & Patience. Teams don’t want to lose their livelihood over the free-will of their players who offer more good than bad. There should also be some leniency in what’s said over what’s offered. When players give you streams, time on web-shows for their opinions and a peak into their lives, there should be some liberties for them to express themselves.
- Punishments & Sanctions. The community wants rules set in place to properly punish those who misrepresent and offend the scene. These rules should be both implicit in contracts and expected to be carried out in a timely manner.
- Maturity & Professionalism. Teams and tournaments expect this, but to what lengths? This is the million-dollar question and while racism is obviously not allowed, are players allowed to express their anger towards an unruly community member? What about joking/teasing amongst friends where the language/topic is not very tasteful? What boundaries are to be set to give players some privacy and room?
Ultimately, what it comes down to is pleasing a diverse audience of different ages and maturities with both constant content from the players, but also keep it at a level of professionalism that most professionals are not used to constantly uphold. Restraint is difficult when it isn’t natural or raised as we all grow older. Restraint from the community is also difficult when some are too impatient to wait for an official statement. To end, we are presented with a real respective from a professional gamer, torn between his personality and words, and the harsh reactions and expectancies of an assorted community:
"If I say something stupid, like the Naniwa comments or being a part of Avilo’s horrible appearance on SOTG: it charges months of backlash. Now, in a world where people are making sport of contacting sponsors and asking them to fire people I too have to think: Is more [exposure] better? SOTG tends to discuss dramatic stuff, I am getting married in December, do I want to run the risk of another year of a show where one wrong statement and I am potentially ejected from the community/job that is attached to my very soul? My passion? I cannot change who I am."
[Evil Geniuses' Geoff 'iNcontrol' Robinson]
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This informed series of written pieces could not have been achieved without the help and opinions of my peers and friends. Below are the people I wish to thank for their insight, accuracy/consistency check or expert opinion on the numerous topics: thank you
- Alex Shieferdecker (Team Liquid Progaming Team Content Manager - tree.hugger)
- Brad Carney (Lefty)
- Chris Chan (Founder of ChanManV Production)
- Eric Grady (Cyber-Sports Network's Director of Events - Usurp)
- Flo Yao (Quantic Gaming’s Progamer - Flo)
- Jacqueline Geller (eSports Network Coordinator of Blizzard)
- John Clark (Cyber-Sports Network Executive Director of Operations)
- Josh Dentrinos (FXOpen’s Director - Boss)
- Marc McEntegart (Team Liquid Writer - SirJolt)
- Matt Weber (Team Liquid Director of Operations - Heyoka)
- Payam Toghyan (ROOT Gaming Progamer - TT1)
- Shawn Simon (Team Liquid Progamer - Sheth)
- Steven Bonnell II (Progamer/Entertainer - Destiny)
- Thomas Shifrer (ESFI World Senior Journalist)
If you'd like more information about the series (more pieces about different aspects of the scene will be released periodically), to contact me privately or to generously give me some siteviews on my website, you can follow the following link:
You can also follow me on Twitter where I tweet public news and information about the scene including roster changes, controversy and/or overall E-Sports news: @TorteDeLini
Thank you very much and I appreciate all feedback or corrections.
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Well done. If there were some way I could keep your posts at the top of my TL page, I would do it every time.
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Nicely writtten. Also what destiny said is very true.
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Professionalism often has this negative connotation of 'suppressing personality'. From experience, I really don't think that needs to be the case. I have never hidden my personality even in professional settings.
Professionalism means to work according to a certain setting. You can move freely within that setting (and bring in a lot of your personality) and don't need to constantly challenge them. If you do, which is often a good thing, you need to be willing to stand up for it!
I also feel that personality is often used as a benign umbrella term for racial slurs or other kinds of slip ups.
This is a very well written and concise article and an excellent basis for discussion! Great work as always Torte!
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On January 05 2013 03:37 JOJOsc2news wrote:Professionalism often has this negative connotation of 'suppressing personality'. From experience, I really don't think that needs to be the case. I have never hidden my personality even in professional settings. Professionalism means to work according to a certain setting. You can move freely within that setting (and bring in a lot of your personality) and don't need to constantly challenge them. If you do, which is often a good thing, you need to be willing to stand up for it! I also feel that personality is often used as a benign umbrella term for racial slurs or other kinds of slip ups.
This is a very well written and concise article and an excellent basis for discussion! Great work as always Torte!
I think it's due to the high standards and expectations as well as the misinterpretation of what is truly professionalism within a public sphere that leads to that negative connotation. If the general public knew the actual limits of professionalism, then there wouldn't be so many clashes between demand for the new and unique, but the restraint of professional attitudes.
Some personalities are very blunt or confrontational that could appear unprofessional, but rather just don't share the same values or priorities as others do.
I think that personality can have a wide range, not necessarily about racial slurs.
thanks (:
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Real celebrities are sought out by paparazzi and their lives are documented (generally) against their will. Pro gamers willingly set up twitters/facebooks in an effort to connect with their fans. It's usually good for their careers to post stuff on twitter and reddit, just not dick pictures... Overall, not really sure what Destiny is talking about as most sports players have social media outlets and they to get crucified if they say stupid shit.
In fact, there are numerous Sports figures and celebrities who have lost their playing careers and/or endorsements because of mistakes in their personal lives. In fact, this can happen to almost anyone if you act like a dumbass. Sometimes Destiny surprises the community with some well thought out comments but this time it seems he's just sour about his own position.
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On January 05 2013 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:
Real celebrities are sought out by paparazzi and their lives are documented (generally) against their will. Pro gamers willingly set up twitters/facebooks in an effort to connect with their fans. It's usually good for their careers to post stuff on twitter and reddit, just not dick pictures... Overall, not really sure what Destiny is talking about as most sports players have social media outlets and they to get crucified if they say stupid shit.
In fact, there are numerous Sports figures and celebrities who have lost their playing careers and/or endorsements because of mistakes in their personal lives. In fact, this can happen to almost anyone if you act like a dumbass. Sometimes Destiny surprises the community with some well thought out comments but this time it seems he's just sour about his own position.
I think if someone else had written what I quoted of Destiny, it'd hold the same truth.
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On January 05 2013 04:47 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:
Real celebrities are sought out by paparazzi and their lives are documented (generally) against their will. Pro gamers willingly set up twitters/facebooks in an effort to connect with their fans. It's usually good for their careers to post stuff on twitter and reddit, just not dick pictures... Overall, not really sure what Destiny is talking about as most sports players have social media outlets and they to get crucified if they say stupid shit.
In fact, there are numerous Sports figures and celebrities who have lost their playing careers and/or endorsements because of mistakes in their personal lives. In fact, this can happen to almost anyone if you act like a dumbass. Sometimes Destiny surprises the community with some well thought out comments but this time it seems he's just sour about his own position. I think if someone else had written what I quoted of Destiny, it'd hold the same truth.
Although true, your other examples show people who are willing to accept mistakes and change if necessary. Destiny has shown little remorse for his actions. Although he is sometimes articulate and thoughtful, he often uses those talents to justify for some extremely poor decision making.
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On January 05 2013 04:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:47 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 05 2013 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:
Real celebrities are sought out by paparazzi and their lives are documented (generally) against their will. Pro gamers willingly set up twitters/facebooks in an effort to connect with their fans. It's usually good for their careers to post stuff on twitter and reddit, just not dick pictures... Overall, not really sure what Destiny is talking about as most sports players have social media outlets and they to get crucified if they say stupid shit.
In fact, there are numerous Sports figures and celebrities who have lost their playing careers and/or endorsements because of mistakes in their personal lives. In fact, this can happen to almost anyone if you act like a dumbass. Sometimes Destiny surprises the community with some well thought out comments but this time it seems he's just sour about his own position. I think if someone else had written what I quoted of Destiny, it'd hold the same truth. Although true, your other examples show people who are willing to accept mistakes and change if necessary. Destiny has shown little remorse for his actions. Although he is sometimes articulate and thoughtful, he often uses those talents to justify for some extremely poor decision making.
I guess stubborness is part of his personality 
hohohohoho
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Canada1169 Posts
As always extremely well written, always look forward to reading the next of these. Great work Michael 
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Punishments & Sanctions. The community wants rules set in place to properly punish those who misrepresent and offend the scene. These rules should be both implicit in contracts and expected to be carried out in a timely manner.
While I understand where you are going with this, this is actually the only thing I kind of have an issue with. What/who determines a "misrepresentation of the scene" rather than "misrepresentation of yourself". I understand that some players or kind of synonymous with Starcraft, but I think it is kind of garbage when a person 24/7 represents someone else rather than themselves when they do something "wrong". When Stephano made the joke about the 14 year old girl that was a clear representation of himself. Times where has forfeit tournaments because he is too tired to play is when he represents his team..........and people lately are having a very hard time making that line.
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I like the initiative mate, you've been one of the few people around who put a lot of thought and time in to a lot of the written stuff I see you do anywhere.
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I think that the concept of "high standards" has been somewhat perverted in recent years - most notably in 2012 due to a number of situations that have led to people losing their jobs or contracts. The majority at large seems to have adopted this form-over-essence approach, where circumstance and context are usually thrown out of the window. People feel empowered by the fact that by pressuring organizations or sponsors over any issue that comes up is now very likely to cause the individual to be dropped or otherwise penalized by his employer. That alone is enough of an incentive for a lot of people to look out for new cases of a player stepping out of the line just so that they are able to use the same power again.
The so-called standards as we have them now aren't there to keep the community and the scene clean - they have the exact opposite effect, as they're being used as a tool to expose and amplify all kinds of dirt and persecute people that stray even for a little bit, sometimes through arguably little or no real fault of their own, and sometimes by exhibiting normal human reactions with no malicious intent behind it. As a consequence, many issues that could have been handled more reasonably, elegantly, and with minimal damage to any of the parties involved, have been placed under heavy spotlight and blown way out of proportion, causing damage not only do the "guilty" side, but plenty of collateral damage as well.
Furthermore, the situations as it is causes the players - people who used to be an integral part of this community - to become detached and aloof. While it all depends on what people really want to see from the scene, I find the notion of Starcraft players behaving and presenting themselves as media superstars extremely unappealing, artificial, and generally not something that I would care at all for (in a positive sense).
IMO, the reason many forms of internet media have gained popularity and found success over the last few years is because they have presented themselves as an alternative to the kind of content one would expect to see on TV - mostly by doing away with many of the limiting and nonsensical layers of media professionalism (while still retaining the basic aspects of it) and coming off as more genuine and honest.
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On January 05 2013 05:03 Nerski wrote:
I like the initiative mate, you've been one of the few people around who put a lot of thought and time in to a lot of the written stuff I see you do anywhere.
Totally agree with this :-)
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TBH I feel sometimes too many people use the personality excuse to act like an asshole and get away with it. At the same time, creating an "asshole personality" is one of the easiest way to stick out from the masses of quiet, good but not great players and is something that a lot of people enjoy watching.
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On January 05 2013 05:22 Louuster wrote:
TBH I feel sometimes too many people use the personality excuse to act like an asshole and get away with it. At the same time, creating an "asshole personality" is one of the easiest way to stick out from the masses of quiet, good but not great players and is something that a lot of people enjoy watching.
Great insight! Yes, there is a huge conflict of wanting to stand tall through harsh personality. Everyone has similar skills and traits and not all viewers are able to detect the finer details of stylistic play (unless it deviates heavily from the norm of traditional builds).
Through voice and words, your personality is narrowly defined and shown to the viewers. Being an asshole indulges certain others and the hilarity of it can sometimes put you in the spotlight for other reasons than your skill. It's a great way to compensate your inability to achieve (given the dominance of Koreans going on right now, this path isn't exactly too bad of an idea).
Of course, then you have a thin line of maintaining that personality, pushing boundaries and ensuring the audience gets what they want without stepping on too many toes. It's like shock therapy, but trying to avoid shocking to death your self-made entertainer career.
Awesome viewpoint (:
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On January 05 2013 05:22 Louuster wrote:
TBH I feel sometimes too many people use the personality excuse to act like an asshole and get away with it. At the same time, creating an "asshole personality" is one of the easiest way to stick out from the masses of quiet, good but not great players and is something that a lot of people enjoy watching.
I don't know which people in particular you're aiming at, but I don't know of a single "personality" in Starcraft 2 that I would consider an asshole, nor do I know of anyone that behaves in such a way consistently that he would deserve being branded as one.
There have been plenty of people that have had their outbursts now and then, some more so than others, but for the most part all of them behave reasonably and professionally.
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On January 05 2013 05:30 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 05:22 Louuster wrote:
TBH I feel sometimes too many people use the personality excuse to act like an asshole and get away with it. At the same time, creating an "asshole personality" is one of the easiest way to stick out from the masses of quiet, good but not great players and is something that a lot of people enjoy watching. I don't know which people in particular you're aiming at, but I don't know of a single "personality" in Starcraft 2 that I would consider an asshole, nor do I know of anyone that behaves in such a way consistently that he would deserve being branded as one. There have been plenty of people that have had their outbursts now and then, some more so than others, but for the most part all of them behave reasonably and professionally.
I think when he means asshole, that they're a bit obnoxious or confrontational.
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My point still stands though. Of all the people who have had their instances of acting obnoxious and confrontational that I can think of, for most of them it's been all about a number of very isolated and highly publicized cases, rather than any kind of consistent behavior of that sort.
At least if we're talking about major things rather than some cute displays of BM such as not gg-ing or doing various ceremonies and other mostly game-related shenanigans.
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On January 05 2013 05:38 Talin wrote:
My point still stands though. Of all the people who have had their instances of acting obnoxious and confrontational that I can think of, for most of them it's been all about a number of very isolated and highly publicized cases, rather than any kind of consistent behavior of that sort.
At least if we're talking about major things rather than some cute displays of BM such as not gg-ing or doing various ceremonies and other mostly game-related shenanigans.
Orb's stream used to be popular because of his rage
Idra has well, as classic as his example is, tends to lean towards that sort of personality or confrontational viewpoint.
Destiny obviously
Galuzi used to have a small stint
Do we put Dragon in there for trolling bronze-league players and doing shenanigans? (not sure).
but it goes on, there aren't as many, but there are some examples.
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“I can’t think of a single time in the history of anything where people have had the same kind of “24/7″ access to celebrity-like figures. Sure, people like Tiger Woods and Tom Hanks have a twitter, but they are very, very carefully managed. You rarely see them doing things “for fun” in public, and when they are, it’s rare that there’s a camera or a spotlight on them. You don’t know how Tom Cruise acts with his personal friends; you don’t know what kind of dirty jokes Denzel Washington laughs at; you don’t know what Taylor Swift thinks about racial slurs.
All of the incidents and drama that I mentioned earlier occurred via forums of communication (forum posts, streams, twitter) that 99.999% of the celebrity world doesn’t partake in.”
A little bit of common sense would go a long way. It doesn't ask for much tack. A lot of these scenarios you listed could have been avoided. Teenager days should be behind a lot of these guys you listed too. For the younglings just entering the fray, they will have to learn up fast.
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On January 05 2013 05:02 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +Punishments & Sanctions. The community wants rules set in place to properly punish those who misrepresent and offend the scene. These rules should be both implicit in contracts and expected to be carried out in a timely manner. While I understand where you are going with this, this is actually the only thing I kind of have an issue with. What/who determines a "misrepresentation of the scene" rather than "misrepresentation of yourself". I understand that some players or kind of synonymous with Starcraft, but I think it is kind of garbage when a person 24/7 represents someone else rather than themselves when they do something "wrong". When Stephano made the joke about the 14 year old girl that was a clear representation of himself. Times where has forfeit tournaments because he is too tired to play is when he represents his team..........and people lately are having a very hard time making that line.
Thus far, most issues that misrepresent the scene or yourself have been pretty obvious (at least for most).
I think duties and responsibilities set by your team are the intertwining part of both yourself and your team. I'm sure you've heard: "When you look bad, you make us look bad" sort of line. It definitely has its relevance here.
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In the non internet world you can be charged for slander if you publicly insult someone - whether you are a celeb or not. If i racially insult samuel jackson he can take me to court, and it works the other way. The reason that was ok on the internet for so long was because there was no face behind the text. Once there is a face there is a way to get law (not literally necessarily, but the standards are there) involved - in the same way that there becomes a way to make money on the part of the personality with the face.
If all the people who are making a career out of streaming were faceless they wouldnt make any money. And once they have a face then they are judged by the standards of the public laws of our countries, simply because they can be.
The situation is fucked because it is the audience that everyone is making money off that is still faceless, and therefore unresponsible, although in Britain a politiian is sueing a random guy off twitter with the charge of slander for accusing him of being a paedophile with no evidence. The days of anonymity are over now people make money from the internet. Which is lame.
To sum up i think Incontrols quote is the most perceptive. It is the presence of money that makes all of this an issue, as it creates a huge investment/risk.
edit: sorry if this is a bit off topic..its def relevent. as the only way to hold someone truely accoutable- whether audience or professional is through the law courts ultimately.
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That was a hilarious post when destiny thought he was more scrutinized than Tiger or Tom Hanks.
Bet he regret writing that.
If your job is to let people watch you play online, don't do stupid shit online. Nobody is gonna be crowding around destiny's table at TGIF's trying to get a scoop. What orb or Stephano did is equivalent to yelling "SUCK MY BLACK DICK CRACKER" while being interviewed by Jim Nantz in the Butler Cabin. You probably shouldn't say stupid shit when your peak audience is watching, even if it's 1/100,000 of what a real celebrity has following them.
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On January 05 2013 04:47 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:16 SupLilSon wrote:
Real celebrities are sought out by paparazzi and their lives are documented (generally) against their will. Pro gamers willingly set up twitters/facebooks in an effort to connect with their fans. It's usually good for their careers to post stuff on twitter and reddit, just not dick pictures... Overall, not really sure what Destiny is talking about as most sports players have social media outlets and they to get crucified if they say stupid shit.
In fact, there are numerous Sports figures and celebrities who have lost their playing careers and/or endorsements because of mistakes in their personal lives. In fact, this can happen to almost anyone if you act like a dumbass. Sometimes Destiny surprises the community with some well thought out comments but this time it seems he's just sour about his own position. I think if someone else had written what I quoted of Destiny, it'd hold the same truth.
I'm saying his quote doesn't hold any truth, regardless of who wrote it or said it. You don't have to be a celebrity or a progamer to lose your job or damage your reputation through thoughtless actions on social media.
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Very well written, thanks for that. I love to see personality shine through a layer of professionalism. I mean, there has to be SOME limits as you say, but I love how SC2 is still a little rough around the edges.
When I see people complaining heavily about the "lack of professionalism" in the sport, I wonder if they truly want a sterile corporate style SC2 scene that is completely politically correct and lacks any edge.
Idra is a great example. He talks some smack, and has probably toed the line quite a few times...but I happen to love it! He calls it like he sees it. I don't always agree with him, but there's definitely something refreshing about listening to someone who doesn't sugarcoat things to cater to an audience.
For all the Canadians out there, Don Cherry is a good personality to bring into this discussion. He's a senile old bastard who blatantly drops racial comments on national television, all while talking(read YELLING) over the half hearted objections of his more mild mannered partner (fuck Don Mclean for what he did to Burrows though). I don't really like Don Cherry that much, but obviously there's a huge chunk of the population that does because he's been on the air since 1981.
This kind of edge exists, and 99% of people like it...but there's the ever present risk that it gets snuffed out by complainers before it gains enough momentum to be unstoppable. (like Don Cherry)
Whenever I see people threatening to contact sponsors and try to get people fired/kicked off teams...it makes me mad. That's the equivalent to a 8 year old girl calling the police because her 10 year old brother pulled her hair. The proper course of action would be to tell your mummy that your big bad brother pulled your hair.
In SC2, the proper course of action would be to contact the team directly and allow them to make their own judgements. The SC2 scene has a hard enough time finding sponsors as it is without some angst filled internet hero whining to them. By choosing to complain directly to sponsors, you may be successful in screwing over your target player/personality...but you've also HUGELY screwed over the SC2 scene at large.
I doubt sponsors take much note of which player(s) are causing the "trouble," they likely paint the SC2 scene with one brush for the most part...In a corporate board room talking about sponsorships, trouble with player X, likely translates to trouble with team X...which is a very small step away from trouble with SC2 at large....
Cheers,
Ramone
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The biggest problem, IMO, is that the community has a blanket punishment for everything: mail the sponsors until someone is fired or (severely) punished. That's bullshit. In the real world, when you do something slanderous (by the way, nothing any progamers have done qualifies as actual slander afaik) we respond by sentencing you to what the law dictates. We do not burn down your house, steal your children, and rape your wife. We do not require your job to release you. We do not prevent you from finding work ever again.
The eSports community could use some perspective. When someone says a bad word online, it's something to be concerned about (to some extent) but it's not a capital offense. It deserves punishment proportional to the severity of the act. Immediately demanding fines or job termination does not reflect well on the community because it displays a lack of due process, and reeks of vigilante, self-righteous nonsense.
my 0.2.
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On January 05 2013 07:33 Shiori wrote:
The biggest problem, IMO, is that the community has a blanket punishment for everything: mail the sponsors until someone is fired or (severely) punished. That's bullshit. In the real world, when you do something slanderous (by the way, nothing any progamers have done qualifies as actual slander afaik) we respond by sentencing you to what the law dictates. We do not burn down your house, steal your children, and rape your wife. We do not require your job to release you. We do not prevent you from finding work ever again.
The eSports community could use some perspective. When someone says a bad word online, it's something to be concerned about (to some extent) but it's not a capital offense. It deserves punishment proportional to the severity of the act. Immediately demanding fines or job termination does not reflect well on the community because it displays a lack of due process, and reeks of vigilante, self-righteous nonsense.
my 0.2.
I think these outrageous approaches such as emailing sponsors are desperate calls for the teams to take action.
Agreed on perspective, I think there is too much fear on what kills the idea of E-Sports and too little hope for what grows it.
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On January 05 2013 08:06 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:33 Shiori wrote:
The biggest problem, IMO, is that the community has a blanket punishment for everything: mail the sponsors until someone is fired or (severely) punished. That's bullshit. In the real world, when you do something slanderous (by the way, nothing any progamers have done qualifies as actual slander afaik) we respond by sentencing you to what the law dictates. We do not burn down your house, steal your children, and rape your wife. We do not require your job to release you. We do not prevent you from finding work ever again.
The eSports community could use some perspective. When someone says a bad word online, it's something to be concerned about (to some extent) but it's not a capital offense. It deserves punishment proportional to the severity of the act. Immediately demanding fines or job termination does not reflect well on the community because it displays a lack of due process, and reeks of vigilante, self-righteous nonsense.
my 0.2. I think these outrageous approaches such as emailing sponsors are desperate calls for the teams to take action. Agreed on perspective, I think there is too much fear on what kills the idea of E-Sports and too little hope for what grows it.
I agree and I said this many times. Emailing sponsors is a call for action from the team. It just shows that it's necessary to have guidelines and rules in place for incidents like that. If teams would have set clear boundaries and (for examply monetary) punishments, they could have reacted much quicker (according to set rules and punishments), which would have prevented things like the emailing of sponsors.
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I think it's worth pointing how video gaming culture is unique and has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk.
Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. Thus you can understand how it simply never dawns on the Orb's of the world that "Oh, maybe I shouldn't call every person I play online a nigger..." because they've never had to face the proverbial music for it up until that point.
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On January 05 2013 08:30 BuddhaMonk wrote:
I think it's worth pointing how video gaming culture is unique and has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk.
Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. Thus you can understand how it simply never dawns on the Orb's of the world that "Oh, maybe I shouldn't call every person I play online a nigger..." because they've never had to face the proverbial music for it up until that point.
I think this is an aspect I failed to cover: anonymity and that plays a huge role between this and other cultural spheres ):
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MC has tons of personality, and is often loved by many people. MKP has personality for being emotional during matches. NONE OF WHICH have ever shown unprofessional behavior that the aforementioned in the article did that would get them fined/banned/etc.
I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN. When you tell others to show more personality defendants of the standard 'korean culture' lash out with YOU DONT GET IT, KeSPA style or nothing.
Thank you for this article.
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On January 05 2013 10:07 Kazeyonoma wrote:
I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN.
Agree. I hate the "gaming culture is unique - DEAL WITH IT PRUDE" attitude that rears its ugly head amongst Destiny's zealots. It's not respectable, cool, interesting, unique, or articulate to use racial and homophobic epithets. You end up sounding like a kid. I don't think that's what most professional gamers are going for in terms of image.
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On January 05 2013 10:07 Kazeyonoma wrote:
MC has tons of personality, and is often loved by many people. MKP has personality for being emotional during matches. NONE OF WHICH have ever shown unprofessional behavior that the aforementioned in the article did that would get them fined/banned/etc.
I think people are too extreme with regards to this argument in general (not that your article is or anything). When people say 'be more professional' to someone like destiny, his defendants rage out WHY DONT YOU SUCK OUT HIS SOUL THEN. When you tell others to show more personality defendants of the standard 'korean culture' lash out with YOU DONT GET IT, KeSPA style or nothing.
Thank you for this article.
There are different kinds of personalities, and players become synonymous with them. If you take away Destiny's lack of professionalism which expresses his outward, unreserved, often times hostile personality, you're pretty much sucking out his soul. People like it because it's real -- turn Destiny into MC and it becomes fake.
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A lot of the players train to win, and spend a large portion of their training time or in tournaments (job hours) in public scrutiny. I would hate to be feeling that every word I say or type or doodle in my workplace with my colleagues is recorded for everyone to judge me on.
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On January 05 2013 13:21 desarrisc wrote:
A lot of the players train to win, and spend a large portion of their training time or in tournaments (job hours) in public scrutiny. I would hate to be feeling that every word I say or type or doodle in my workplace with my colleagues is recorded for everyone to judge me on.
The issue with esports however is that there are basically little "gangs" of people who "bully" everyone else, and do whatever they like (unlike in real sports). What you pointed out above would actually indicate esports being at a stage where it is so well established that people actually put effort into going out of their way to follow it. Not that i'm flaming EG, but how they act is an example of how this industry is no way near reaching a point of professionalism that reflects whats present in the sports industry today.
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On January 05 2013 16:02 bLueSkY) wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 13:21 desarrisc wrote:
A lot of the players train to win, and spend a large portion of their training time or in tournaments (job hours) in public scrutiny. I would hate to be feeling that every word I say or type or doodle in my workplace with my colleagues is recorded for everyone to judge me on. The issue with esports however is that there are basically little "gangs" of people who "bully" everyone else, and do whatever they like (unlike in real sports). What you pointed out above would actually indicate esports being at a stage where it is so well established that people actually put effort into going out of their way to follow it. Not that i'm flaming EG, but how they act is an example of how this industry is no way near reaching a point of professionalism that reflects whats present in the sports industry today.
I'd love to hear your perception of this "gangs" and bully idea :B
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this is a great topic - its really about a popularity contest and why some people are liked and why some people aren't. professionalism is part of that. there are however 2 things to consider in relation the SC 2.
This is a truly global community and as such there are a variety of norms and expectations. Respected characteristics in some countries are less respected in others. In the USA bragging and chest banging "trash talking" is more acceptable than in other countries where a little more humility is respected more. In a lot of Asian countries more is made out of been respectful to your opponent (well other people in general) then most western countries.
Not sure what the average age of the Starcraft 2 community is but i think it would easily below 30 my guess about 26. I am sure there would be a considerably different view on some of the events listed in the OP if the average age of the community was 65. The age of the community plays a role.
but it is also important because - In the international scene Starcraft 2 need a personality to brake into the mainstream - a good looking player that is passionate and articulate and very good at the game. One that big business can see as spokesperson for their company and one that is media friendly and one that is seen from the outside as professional but also one that has a generally liked personality. finding and nurturing such a person should be high on the list of those you have a vested interesting in developing E-sports.
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Ok, lets see if I can organise some thoughts on this.
1. I'm not entirely convinced that all of your drama examples are equal. There are big differences in different judgement calls to be made with regards to punishment:
- The orb thing was, admittedly, totally unacceptable behaviour. However as I understand it it was some time ago. Before he got the job. Consequently although being called out on it was reasonable the sacking was probably over the top. Regardless, however, EG had an incredibly professional attitude.
- I read over the Nony thing and it appeared there'd been some miscommunication and hard feelings. Someone not being informed and being frustrated or emotional is hardly a controversy.
- Stephano's comments were mind-blowingly inappropriate.
- Destiny's racial slur, similarly, was totally inappropriate and utterly unacceptable.
- Idra is very well known for BM. However as far as I'm aware he doesn't go around yelling racial abuse at people. And, although I'm not entirely comfortably with putting it this way, it never comes across as malicious unlike it does with certain other individuals. Consequently there's a certain amount of judgement over whether its genuine nastiness or not. Yes, I realise that makes it all sound very subjective, I apologise.
- In contrast with the racial slur above, the second Destiny thing was probably over-punished. As I understood it, it was a very, very nasty spat between two people who both made silly decisions. However it was still a personal matter between two people and didn't really warrant the team dropping him. That being said I feel Destiny could have been the bigger person here when it all went public and come off looking far better than he did.
2. There is a BIG difference between outwardly expressing yourself and stuff like what Stephano did. Just like there's a difference in expressing your feelings on homosexual relationships and actually posting gay porn everywhere. Its about how you present your thoughts and yourself. This is a very basic social thing which, unfortunately, people have gotten used to ignoring because of internet anonymity. The problem is, of course, that suddenly you find you're no longer anonymous and don't realise that you need to change your attitude.
3. The whole reason for people contacting sponsors is that they feel it gets things done. People will take the most expedient route of ensuring their complaints are addressed. And frankly they're within their right to do whatever they want to given that they're the ones who make this whole business work (by being the audience). If people felt that a team has a reputation of dealing with problems quickly and efficiently then they would contact the team. Unfortunately it is evident there is little confidence in the teams actually doing anything about it in a timely manner.
4. It is understandable that a lot of these people aren't used to having to act particularly professionally. However that STILL doesn't excuse certain things. I'm not used to acting particularly professionally myself. I'm just a student doing a PhD and its a fairly relaxed working environment. But I'm still expected to have some level of professionalism when I attend scientific conferences and in the labs. Or at least enough not to call people "retards" when I don't agree with them. And to date, I haven't; and it hasn't taken that much effort.
5. I agree with the principle that professionalism doesn't have to include suppressing personality. Idra, for example, is actually fairly professional in my view. Ok, he can be abrasive and offensive but he also seems to take his job fairly seriously and rarely comes close to crossing "the line". Again, this is subjective but still...
6. I disagree there is a huge difference between representing yourself and representing your team. The inherent implication in signing for a team is that then you become a figurehead for that team. No ifs or buts. And the team is a showcase for their sponsors. That may be a little unfair, but its just the way it is in this kind of sponsored thing. There is an inherent link that cannot be broken there.
Regardless, very good article. Well written.
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THis is sick Torte, Keep up the good work!
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On January 05 2013 05:02 shockaslim wrote:
While I understand where you are going with this, this is actually the only thing I kind of have an issue with. What/who determines a "misrepresentation of the scene" rather than "misrepresentation of yourself". I understand that some players or kind of synonymous with Starcraft, but I think it is kind of garbage when a person 24/7 represents someone else rather than themselves when they do something "wrong". When Stephano made the joke about the 14 year old girl that was a clear representation of himself. Times where has forfeit tournaments because he is too tired to play is when he represents his team..........and people lately are having a very hard time making that line.
At the end of the day you are representing the people paying you. That can be sponsors, tournaments, etc. If someone makes an off color remark outside the scene and the scene takes offense to it, sponsors may be less likely to fund you, your team, or even your entire sport. At the end of the day it does not matter when and where it happened, you run the risk of reprimand from those who are funding the thing you care about (which includes those watching).
Someone else said it well, players purposefully post as their personality, either because it's expected or they want to. If they choose to be "themselves" then everyone else has the right not to like who you are. Part of being a pro and in being in the spotlight is to know when to play for an audience and where the line is. Look to many of the Kespa players for examples on how to do this right. If that's too boring for some players, then you can't cry when someone who literally funds your career doesn't like you or what you have to say. Welcome to the real world.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kwkQa.png)
