EPTStill, it's great to see these nerfs to infestors. May the games get better
[Dec 4] Wings of Liberty Balance patch - Page 29
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Woizit
801 Posts
Still, it's great to see these nerfs to infestors. May the games get better | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On December 05 2012 14:46 a176 wrote: blizzard understands the psychological effects of patches very well. patch 1.4.2 only reduced upgrades by a measly 25 to 50 minerals but all of a sudden toss learnt to rush to 3/3 is a pretty good strat. now i will wait for inevitable scan+seeker missile worker abuse. Holy shit, I totally forgot about those upgrade changes! And then suddenly after that is when the protoss dominance started. And then suddenly all those "l0l upgrades buffed 25 minerals, great" turned into "FUCK BLIZZARD you overpowered protoss1111" That's a good point (the psychological thing)! Also I get what Avilo and others are saying, that it doesn't change many situations, but simply saving 150/150 is helpful enough. They have to be so careful with balance, or everything will tip out of control. This even helps mech openers (like in TvP!) where they get Ravens anyways. Now suddenly you have a SM against Immortals (or if it's more effective to use PDD vs Stalkers, then please correct me, but if he clumps a few immortals together then I'm sure it'll be worth it) This can make some interesting early-mid situations too. Imagine a player sending a seeker missile to buy time (like for mech). He has to back up his whole army and try to figure out which of his small units he needs to split [if he wants to attack right there] and that can buy precious seconds. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On December 05 2012 14:46 a176 wrote: blizzard understands the psychological effects of patches very well. patch 1.4.2 only reduced upgrades by a measly 25 to 50 minerals but all of a sudden toss learnt to rush to 3/3 is a pretty good strat. now i will wait for inevitable scan+seeker missile worker abuse. Psychological thing? What? The change you are referencing globally affected every Protoss ground unit...has nothing to do with psychology. It has to do with the change actually, you know...changing stuff. No one is ever going to get a raven for "scan + seeker abuse." You live in some dream world where games are decided by epic microz battles between 2 blink stalkers and 1 raven lol. | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On December 05 2012 14:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Holy shit, I totally forgot about those upgrade changes! And then suddenly after that is when the protoss dominance started. And then suddenly all those "l0l upgrades buffed 25 minerals, great" turned into "FUCK BLIZZARD you overpowered protoss1111" That's a good point (the psychological thing)! Also I get what Avilo and others are saying, that it doesn't change many situations, but simply saving 150/150 is helpful enough. They have to be so careful with balance, or everything will tip out of control. This even helps mech openers (like in TvP!) where they get Ravens anyways. Now suddenly you have a SM against Immortals (or if it's more effective to use PDD vs Stalkers, then please correct me, but if he clumps a few immortals together then I'm sure it'll be worth it) This can make some interesting early-mid situations too. Imagine a player sending a seeker missile to buy time (like for mech). He has to back up his whole army and try to figure out which of his small units he needs to split [if he wants to attack right there] and that can buy precious seconds. Oh yes, this! They feel that the game is statistically balance but the reality and gamers are so vocal about it so they tweak it a little bit so people can have some hope on trying instead of giving up completely. haha great point | ||
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GeneralSnoop
United States142 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On December 05 2012 15:11 GeneralSnoop wrote: I think this is a great patch, though I would definitely like to see a casting range increase on HSM. I think its short range is really the main thing that makes it kind of sucky. Raven's have to literally be on top of there target. So sad -_-. Yet, infestors had 9 range fungal since beta. I don't get it. Especially considering the FG isn't dodge-able while HSM is. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On December 05 2012 15:08 avilo wrote: Psychological thing? What? The change you are referencing globally affected every Protoss ground unit...has nothing to do with psychology. It has to do with the change actually, you know...changing stuff. No one is ever going to get a raven for "scan + seeker abuse." You live in some dream world where games are decided by epic microz battles between 2 blink stalkers and 1 raven lol. no i was just referencing your arguement on how this didnt actually change seeker missile. referring to the fact there was no actual change to protoss upgrades aside from the fact you could start them half a second earlier than you normally would. now more players will experiment with seeker and im sure will find a way to abuse its autohoming, unavoidable attack. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
It makes so much more sense. | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
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mongoose22
174 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:53 avilo wrote: You have to remember, the egg HP is reduced, not the infested Terran HP. If the eggs hatch, infested terrans pop out with full HP, meaning the change is targetted purely at more eggs going down when those 5000 eggs are thrown out. This particular point is incorrect. Infested eggs are not like Zerg morph cocoons; when the egg takes damage, the Infested Terran hatches with the same percentage damage taken as the egg (try it in-game). So the change both makes the eggs easier to kill outright and makes the Infested Terran inside take roughly 40% more damage while hatching if the egg survives. | ||
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EuroElf
Croatia19 Posts
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Wafflelisk
Canada1061 Posts
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orBitual
United States96 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On December 05 2012 14:08 avilo wrote: Well, after playing Zergcraft on ladder more, i think every Terran that says this raven change did nothing is right. Still same situation, you get ravens and they have no energy, you die for making them. Sad that blizzard knows the problem word for word from Terrans is the problem is you don't have 2-3 minutes worth of time to gain energy. Not having to upgrade seeker changed nothing lategame. -_- gl Terrans. The other thing is, every Zerg i've played so far still just does infestor brood lol. The EGG HP nerf only affects the eggs. Let's say you do damage to the eggs, and they hatch. It's no biggie, they pop out with 100% infested terran HP, exact same as last patch. That egg change seems to help PvZ more than TvZ and even then I don't know how much it helps there lol. Let's say you don't storm immediately when they infested Terrans go down. You waste 3-4 psi storms on the eggs, and then since you did not do it IMMEDIATELY the infested Terran hatch 100% HP. Then it's same as pre-patch. Not too optimistic -_- There's more or less no TvZ change with these "nerfs". The only reason you see Zergs supporting them is because they're a wrist-slap. Otherwise you would see a lot more angry Zerg players, so that's how you know these nerfs are rather insignificant. To those that don't understand that the Raven change is actually not a change: When you build a Raven you cannot cast HSM regardless, because they don't come out with enough energy. This means that, by the time the upgrade finishes researching, you would have enough energy. Therefore pre and post-patch HSM is available at exactly the same time. This change just saves a 150/150 mineral tax, and is irrelevant to any of the major problems with the Raven. | ||
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On December 05 2012 15:20 Flonomenalz wrote: Still not sure why avilo's idea wasn't implemented instead of removing HSM upgrade. It makes so much more sense. I don't think it's a matter of one buff over another. This buff is being implemented, and there will probably be more buffs to come in HotS beta (see David Kim's plan for the next balance patch). | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 05 2012 14:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Holy shit, I totally forgot about those upgrade changes! And then suddenly after that is when the protoss dominance started. And then suddenly all those "l0l upgrades buffed 25 minerals, great" turned into "FUCK BLIZZARD you overpowered protoss1111" That's a good point (the psychological thing)! same as the blue flame icon buff, man | ||
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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Zanzabarr
Canada217 Posts
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