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[Dec 4] Wings of Liberty Balance patch - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
913 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 46 Next All
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
December 05 2012 00:05 GMT
#441
Not bad. I might return to this game. Change fungal to projectile as well, it'd be more fun and skilled based.
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
December 05 2012 00:11 GMT
#442
I'm happy with all changes. Although i doubt the raven change will do very much, i do think it will make a difference in viability.

the fungal nerf will make sniping infestors a lot more viable as well as infestor micro needed. With a little luck this also makes having a shit load of infestors less powerful because of a lack of flexibility. But that's to be seen.

Overall this is very much a step in the good direction for WOL.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 00:37:05
December 05 2012 00:16 GMT
#443
On December 05 2012 08:59 iKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 08:46 rd wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:45 thirtyapm wrote:
good work.

but what about doing nothing except reverting one of either queen or ol buff?


Blizzard is pretty committed to planting their design philosophy flag that Zerg should always get a free third, balancing around this truism. I doubt it'll ever be changed if at all in WoL.


The problem is that before the queen patch you could gain map control, scout, contain and harass with 4 units, at no risk at all, while expanding. That is NOT balanced in any way.

Sure the queen buff was over the top, but the sheer power of reactor hellion was just too much.


It wasn't imbalanced, it was strong, but largely solved and dealt with very adequately as zergs adapted to a later third and much faster fourths behind huge midgame swells of compositions containing roaches. And there was always a risk, as zerg abused the shit out of hellion openers with economic 6-7 roach pressure timings that would scuttle to the Terran's natural and kill SCV's for free with only a few unupgraded marines and hellions to oppose them. The disparity in winrates were no where near to where they are now.
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
December 05 2012 00:18 GMT
#444
I dont understand how this fixes PvZ lategame... call me bad or whatever, but if the fungal range decrease is meant to encourage and buff more high templar use, you would need like 1 ht per 1 or 2 infestors, assuming they dont die to broodlings or spines...

otherwise colossus outranges infestors fungal range, but the broodlords would still be in range.. I mean usually when i play vs broodlord infestor they use that composition defensively and eventually move out once they have crazy amounts of broods and infestors with max energy... but mostly it is me who would have to attack him once hes out of position from his spines, but still... the fungal range is still pretty good and i cant vortex the broods when he splits them... and i am lucky if i can get a clear blink under the broods without being fungaled...

i just thought that they would balance out the infestor broodlord composition in PvZ specifically.. i mean im sure infestors are pretty imba vs terran too... but i thought the serious problem was PvZ.. i mean i'm not gonna just immortal sentry all in every game thats just boring.. but with broodlord infestor its not even challenge, its like almost impossible...

please call me out as a scrub and tell me that i'm wrong, i would like to hear it.. cos i still don't see how i would deal with the zerg deathball without mass carrier... i dont see how the eggs and a minor fungal range change can affect the deathball to an extent that makes a protoss have a chance in the lategame..
ironpiggy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States70 Posts
December 05 2012 00:18 GMT
#445
Oh nice energy change on the raven!
wait, what there wasn't one? oh just kidding then. Looks like blizzard still thinks that seeker missile isn't a coinflip.
"I'm like an asymptote, you'll get close to me but never touch me.
Insomni7
Profile Joined June 2011
667 Posts
December 05 2012 00:19 GMT
#446
Speaking as a zerg I feel the real problem right now is that massing infestors is too good. I would prefer a supply cost change but the range will make a significant difference and at least make infestors more challenging to use so I am in favor. I wonder if it is still worth it to use infested terran in zvz fights..
Never Forget.
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
December 05 2012 00:20 GMT
#447
The raven change is gonna be awesome for TvT
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
TeveT
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden148 Posts
December 05 2012 00:20 GMT
#448
As a zerg I dont see a problem with this patch, hopefully it evens out the playing field somewhat without destroying the matchups...
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
December 05 2012 00:20 GMT
#449
--- Nuked ---
robopork
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States511 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 00:33:12
December 05 2012 00:27 GMT
#450
Not a bad change for midgame...?

I'm still not sure how this busts infestor broodlord.

But, in fairness, the fungal change seems more important for T than for P. 1 storm killing eggs oO should be fun for chargelot templar builds.

Edit: I don't think these changes make a lot of sense without fixing the immortal sentry push, especially in light of the fact that this is really a mid game change anyway.
“This left me alone to solve the coffee problem - a sort of catch-22, as in order to think straight I need caffeine, and in order to make that happen I need to think straight.”
Solarist
Profile Joined September 2011
291 Posts
December 05 2012 00:30 GMT
#451
On December 05 2012 09:20 Emzeeshady wrote:
Love it

Only I feel now that Zerg will be UP versus Protoss. Toss is already doing good vs Zerg but with the IT nerf I feel Protoss may have an even chance in the late game which is unfair considering how much better they are in the mid game.


Hahaha how would it be unfair for them to have a chance in lategame because they have the choice to won won won.

I really hope thats sarcasm
Atrbyg
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States513 Posts
December 05 2012 00:32 GMT
#452
Yes. This is going to be amazing.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
December 05 2012 00:36 GMT
#453
On December 05 2012 09:27 robopork wrote:
Not a bad change for midgame...?

I'm still not sure how this busts infestor broodlord.

But, in fairness, the fungal change seems more important for T than for P. 1 storm killing eggs oO should be fun for chargelot templar builds.

Edit: I don't think these changes make a lot of sense without fixing the immortal sentry push, especially in light of the fact that this is really a mid game change anyway.


It doesn't "bust" infestor broodlord, but it makes it a more even playing field where the player with better micro will be more likely to win.

Zerg will still have to go infestor broodlord very often because there is simply no other consistently viable lategame unit composition for them. But now, surviving until infestor/broodlord is on the field doesn't make the zerg virtually uncounterable.
Scisyhp
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States200 Posts
December 05 2012 00:37 GMT
#454
On December 05 2012 09:30 Solarist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 09:20 Emzeeshady wrote:
Love it

Only I feel now that Zerg will be UP versus Protoss. Toss is already doing good vs Zerg but with the IT nerf I feel Protoss may have an even chance in the late game which is unfair considering how much better they are in the mid game.


Hahaha how would it be unfair for them to have a chance in lategame because they have the choice to won won won.

I really hope thats sarcasm


Protoss already has a strong advantage in ZvP midgame. If they then are completely even lategame, that will mean that the matchup will be imbalanced towards protoss. He is correct in what he is saying, even if the ultimate truth is that that matchup would end up very badly designed.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
December 05 2012 00:39 GMT
#455
On December 05 2012 09:19 Insomni7 wrote:
Speaking as a zerg I feel the real problem right now is that massing infestors is too good. I would prefer a supply cost change but the range will make a significant difference and at least make infestors more challenging to use so I am in favor. I wonder if it is still worth it to use infested terran in zvz fights..


Well, there's just not much you can do without redesigning the whole game at this point. Fungal and infested terrans probably shouldn't have been assigned to the same unit. For instance, maybe if infestors only had fungal, and overseers had the option to drop ITs instead of changelings, we'd see a different mix of units being made.
Solarist
Profile Joined September 2011
291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 00:40:41
December 05 2012 00:40 GMT
#456
On December 05 2012 09:37 Scisyhp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 09:30 Solarist wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:20 Emzeeshady wrote:
Love it

Only I feel now that Zerg will be UP versus Protoss. Toss is already doing good vs Zerg but with the IT nerf I feel Protoss may have an even chance in the late game which is unfair considering how much better they are in the mid game.


Hahaha how would it be unfair for them to have a chance in lategame because they have the choice to won won won.

I really hope thats sarcasm


Protoss already has a strong advantage in ZvP midgame. If they then are completely even lategame, that will mean that the matchup will be imbalanced towards protoss. He is correct in what he is saying, even if the ultimate truth is that that matchup would end up very badly designed.


It allready is the worst designed matchup in the game. I fail to see how it can make it worse. Also protoss doesent have a better midgame, they have pretty much 1 all in they are forced to do, or try for a prehive timing. I woudent called being forced to do an all in being a better midgame
SCG.StatiC
Profile Joined April 2012
South Africa33 Posts
December 05 2012 00:42 GMT
#457
This is a pretty big change! I think I will try go in late game PvZ again ^_^
DeathDyingDoomKiller
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada91 Posts
December 05 2012 00:50 GMT
#458
This raven upgrade will promote DEATH DYING and DOOM. I like it!
Join the League of Evil. We have Murder, Evil, Blood, Grim Reaping, Killing, Death, Dying, Doom, Black, Dark Red, John Boehner, Reaper, Slaughter, and Kill-Death.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
December 05 2012 00:55 GMT
#459
--- Nuked ---
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
December 05 2012 00:56 GMT
#460
On December 05 2012 09:39 Chocobo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 09:19 Insomni7 wrote:
Speaking as a zerg I feel the real problem right now is that massing infestors is too good. I would prefer a supply cost change but the range will make a significant difference and at least make infestors more challenging to use so I am in favor. I wonder if it is still worth it to use infested terran in zvz fights..


Well, there's just not much you can do without redesigning the whole game at this point. Fungal and infested terrans probably shouldn't have been assigned to the same unit. For instance, maybe if infestors only had fungal, and overseers had the option to drop ITs instead of changelings, we'd see a different mix of units being made.


LOL

Overseers dont cost supply... so you would be able to make 100000000 infested terrans ^^
I definitely dont like that idea
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