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On December 26 2012 08:42 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 08:26 keglu wrote:On December 26 2012 08:00 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 07:43 plogamer wrote:On December 26 2012 07:33 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 04:02 kollin wrote:On December 26 2012 03:53 nomyx wrote:
To everyone saying that zergs are only winning due to their race, consider that the best players are zergs. Zerg requires the most multi-tasking and mechanics of any race, and strong mechanics make zerg a strong race. I do very much so hope this is a sarcastic post... Nop its the same thing delusional people were saying about terrans when they were steamrolling everything and every top 8 was a TvT. Also that artosis blog,ah yes,that artosis blog. What a ridiculous statement. Terrans were "steamrolling" everything?... Speaking of delusion, I think you're missing a mirror. Yes, Terrans were dominating, but not to the extend that Zergs are "steamrolling" everyone with a giant, easy-to-use, deathball. Actually, pre-Queen buff, TvZ in Korea was 50%~, not quite the steam-roll you claim. And the global win-rate wasn't even that even since Terrans only dominated in Korea and nowhere else. Read the OP before you spew nonsense into a thread that is already filled with misinformation please. The fuck are you talking about? Did I specify a moment in where terrans were steamrolling everything?Did I say it was right before queen buff? No I clearly didn't.I just made a ambiguous statement about people that are ready to defend clearly imbalanced shit regardless what race it is or what time period,because if I remember correctly there were points in time where terrans had 70%win rate against a race and steamrolling is clearly the appropriate term and even than there were people that said it's not a problem and that the other races should just figure it out.Did i say what point that was?No. Did the guy specify what he means?No. So what the fuck is your problem? Seriously 70%? I mean if you make stuff up at least make it reasonable. Better yet dont make stuff up. Oh let's see.67% winrate TvP at GSL season1,70% winrate for zergs in season 2 against protoss,65% winrate for terrans vs P in 2011 January season,74% winrate for PvZ somewhere in 2012 I can't really remember.It's fairly easy to google shit so I'm told. In fact there are so many examples where the winrate for some race went over 65% that it's pretty sad. My point was just that there always are some people defending obvious imbalances whether it be maps,units,race mechanics or w/e,so people shouldn't be surprised. Also before these "patch zergs" the only foreign players who even took a game off koreans were mostly protoss,so yea.
Wait, so you cannot even find a single tournament of terrans having a 70%> win rate against any race and somehow the other guy is wrong and to be ignored? You were the one caught in your own hyperbole. Man up and own up when you are wrong. I expected a more level-headed approach from a veteran.
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France9034 Posts
On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I dont see a difference in strategies between Flash and other Terran's (besides Fantasy's) TvP yet I see no complains and still see fans licking Flash's balls.
In SC2, Terran WAS strong early to mid game in TvZ but weak lategame OMG ZERGS TURTLING TO LATE GAME VS TERRAN! common sense = imba? lol
In BW, you never see Protosses playing passive vs turtling Terrans they either do agressive harasses or expand greedily to gain advantages. SC2 Terran has the best harassing units and the best greedy expands (you can still make use of your orbital even if is not safe to expand with it). If you like to play passive or standard, you should switch to Zerg and Terran is not for you.
Imo, the patch actually implies the small correction I made in your post. Now see the logical problem of your sentence...
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On December 26 2012 19:48 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 08:42 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 08:26 keglu wrote:On December 26 2012 08:00 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 07:43 plogamer wrote:On December 26 2012 07:33 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 04:02 kollin wrote:On December 26 2012 03:53 nomyx wrote:
To everyone saying that zergs are only winning due to their race, consider that the best players are zergs. Zerg requires the most multi-tasking and mechanics of any race, and strong mechanics make zerg a strong race. I do very much so hope this is a sarcastic post... Nop its the same thing delusional people were saying about terrans when they were steamrolling everything and every top 8 was a TvT. Also that artosis blog,ah yes,that artosis blog. What a ridiculous statement. Terrans were "steamrolling" everything?... Speaking of delusion, I think you're missing a mirror. Yes, Terrans were dominating, but not to the extend that Zergs are "steamrolling" everyone with a giant, easy-to-use, deathball. Actually, pre-Queen buff, TvZ in Korea was 50%~, not quite the steam-roll you claim. And the global win-rate wasn't even that even since Terrans only dominated in Korea and nowhere else. Read the OP before you spew nonsense into a thread that is already filled with misinformation please. The fuck are you talking about? Did I specify a moment in where terrans were steamrolling everything?Did I say it was right before queen buff? No I clearly didn't.I just made a ambiguous statement about people that are ready to defend clearly imbalanced shit regardless what race it is or what time period,because if I remember correctly there were points in time where terrans had 70%win rate against a race and steamrolling is clearly the appropriate term and even than there were people that said it's not a problem and that the other races should just figure it out.Did i say what point that was?No. Did the guy specify what he means?No. So what the fuck is your problem? Seriously 70%? I mean if you make stuff up at least make it reasonable. Better yet dont make stuff up. Oh let's see.67% winrate TvP at GSL season1,70% winrate for zergs in season 2 against protoss,65% winrate for terrans vs P in 2011 January season,74% winrate for PvZ somewhere in 2012 I can't really remember.It's fairly easy to google shit so I'm told. In fact there are so many examples where the winrate for some race went over 65% that it's pretty sad. My point was just that there always are some people defending obvious imbalances whether it be maps,units,race mechanics or w/e,so people shouldn't be surprised. Also before these "patch zergs" the only foreign players who even took a game off koreans were mostly protoss,so yea. Wait, so you cannot even find a single tournament of terrans having a 70%> win rate against any race and somehow the other guy is wrong and to be ignored? You were the one caught in your own hyperbole. Man up and own up when you are wrong. I expected a more level-headed approach from a veteran.
Wow people are going to make me google everything for them-
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1315_2011_GSL_Code_A_May
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1995_2011_GSL_Code_S_Oct.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1815_2011_GSL_Code_S_Aug. etc etc etc
At a point there were like 15-20 terrans in each code so the winrates don't even do it justice,and no they weren't the better players,not that much better.
Pretty sure you can find more if you go back to the times of 5rax reaper mayhem,GSL1-1-1,lolemp and others.
My point wasn't even the winrate,it was how people behaved.
And I'm not a veteran for what ever that means.
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On December 26 2012 20:56 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 19:48 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 26 2012 08:42 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 08:26 keglu wrote:On December 26 2012 08:00 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 07:43 plogamer wrote:On December 26 2012 07:33 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 04:02 kollin wrote:On December 26 2012 03:53 nomyx wrote:
To everyone saying that zergs are only winning due to their race, consider that the best players are zergs. Zerg requires the most multi-tasking and mechanics of any race, and strong mechanics make zerg a strong race. I do very much so hope this is a sarcastic post... Nop its the same thing delusional people were saying about terrans when they were steamrolling everything and every top 8 was a TvT. Also that artosis blog,ah yes,that artosis blog. What a ridiculous statement. Terrans were "steamrolling" everything?... Speaking of delusion, I think you're missing a mirror. Yes, Terrans were dominating, but not to the extend that Zergs are "steamrolling" everyone with a giant, easy-to-use, deathball. Actually, pre-Queen buff, TvZ in Korea was 50%~, not quite the steam-roll you claim. And the global win-rate wasn't even that even since Terrans only dominated in Korea and nowhere else. Read the OP before you spew nonsense into a thread that is already filled with misinformation please. The fuck are you talking about? Did I specify a moment in where terrans were steamrolling everything?Did I say it was right before queen buff? No I clearly didn't.I just made a ambiguous statement about people that are ready to defend clearly imbalanced shit regardless what race it is or what time period,because if I remember correctly there were points in time where terrans had 70%win rate against a race and steamrolling is clearly the appropriate term and even than there were people that said it's not a problem and that the other races should just figure it out.Did i say what point that was?No. Did the guy specify what he means?No. So what the fuck is your problem? Seriously 70%? I mean if you make stuff up at least make it reasonable. Better yet dont make stuff up. Oh let's see.67% winrate TvP at GSL season1,70% winrate for zergs in season 2 against protoss,65% winrate for terrans vs P in 2011 January season,74% winrate for PvZ somewhere in 2012 I can't really remember.It's fairly easy to google shit so I'm told. In fact there are so many examples where the winrate for some race went over 65% that it's pretty sad. My point was just that there always are some people defending obvious imbalances whether it be maps,units,race mechanics or w/e,so people shouldn't be surprised. Also before these "patch zergs" the only foreign players who even took a game off koreans were mostly protoss,so yea. Wait, so you cannot even find a single tournament of terrans having a 70%> win rate against any race and somehow the other guy is wrong and to be ignored? You were the one caught in your own hyperbole. Man up and own up when you are wrong. I expected a more level-headed approach from a veteran. Wow people are going to make me google everything for them- http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1315_2011_GSL_Code_A_Mayhttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1995_2011_GSL_Code_S_Oct. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1815_2011_GSL_Code_S_Aug. etc etc etc Pretty sure you can find more if you go back to the times of 5rax reaper mayhem,GSL1-1-1,lolemp and others. My point wasn't even the winrate,it was how people behaved. And I'm not a veteran for what ever that means.
And you link a tournament with P 2 versus Terran 6 to claim that Terran had a 70%> win rate  You just don't get it, do you. Hyperbole like "lolemp" just makes you look silly. Come back to the thread when you're done cursing and exaggerating.
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Yea it's clearly a good sign of a balanced game when the race distribution for the best tournament in the world is 20 terrans,5 ps and 5 Zs.Clearly they just got there on a random drawing and no qualifiers were played,they raffled off Code A and S spots and terrans were the the ones having a hot luck streak.
I'm done with this thread.
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On December 26 2012 21:09 TheKefka wrote:
Yea it's clearly a good sign of a balanced game when the race distribution for the best tournament in the world is 20 terrans,5 ps and 5 Zs.Clearly they just got there on a random drawing and no qualifiers were played,they raffled off Code A and S spots and terrans were the the ones having a hot luck streak.
I'm done with this thread.
I know you tried making a point to begin with, but I don't think anyone remembers it anymore, because all you do is go on and on about how the situation was different back in the day, just with a different race. And? So? What?
Or maybe I'm completely missing your point... which I'm sure you don't care much about anymore, all you do is scream "IT WAS LIKE THIS, LOOK, DEM TERRANS, OMGOMG, WERE SO OP TOO BACK IN THE DAY!"
Ok, so you're done. Good. Does anyone else have anything to add or are we done with this thread?
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On December 26 2012 20:56 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 19:48 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 26 2012 08:42 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 08:26 keglu wrote:On December 26 2012 08:00 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 07:43 plogamer wrote:On December 26 2012 07:33 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 04:02 kollin wrote:On December 26 2012 03:53 nomyx wrote:
To everyone saying that zergs are only winning due to their race, consider that the best players are zergs. Zerg requires the most multi-tasking and mechanics of any race, and strong mechanics make zerg a strong race. I do very much so hope this is a sarcastic post... Nop its the same thing delusional people were saying about terrans when they were steamrolling everything and every top 8 was a TvT. Also that artosis blog,ah yes,that artosis blog. What a ridiculous statement. Terrans were "steamrolling" everything?... Speaking of delusion, I think you're missing a mirror. Yes, Terrans were dominating, but not to the extend that Zergs are "steamrolling" everyone with a giant, easy-to-use, deathball. Actually, pre-Queen buff, TvZ in Korea was 50%~, not quite the steam-roll you claim. And the global win-rate wasn't even that even since Terrans only dominated in Korea and nowhere else. Read the OP before you spew nonsense into a thread that is already filled with misinformation please. The fuck are you talking about? Did I specify a moment in where terrans were steamrolling everything?Did I say it was right before queen buff? No I clearly didn't.I just made a ambiguous statement about people that are ready to defend clearly imbalanced shit regardless what race it is or what time period,because if I remember correctly there were points in time where terrans had 70%win rate against a race and steamrolling is clearly the appropriate term and even than there were people that said it's not a problem and that the other races should just figure it out.Did i say what point that was?No. Did the guy specify what he means?No. So what the fuck is your problem? Seriously 70%? I mean if you make stuff up at least make it reasonable. Better yet dont make stuff up. Oh let's see.67% winrate TvP at GSL season1,70% winrate for zergs in season 2 against protoss,65% winrate for terrans vs P in 2011 January season,74% winrate for PvZ somewhere in 2012 I can't really remember.It's fairly easy to google shit so I'm told. In fact there are so many examples where the winrate for some race went over 65% that it's pretty sad. My point was just that there always are some people defending obvious imbalances whether it be maps,units,race mechanics or w/e,so people shouldn't be surprised. Also before these "patch zergs" the only foreign players who even took a game off koreans were mostly protoss,so yea. Wait, so you cannot even find a single tournament of terrans having a 70%> win rate against any race and somehow the other guy is wrong and to be ignored? You were the one caught in your own hyperbole. Man up and own up when you are wrong. I expected a more level-headed approach from a veteran. Wow people are going to make me google everything for them- http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1315_2011_GSL_Code_A_Mayhttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1995_2011_GSL_Code_S_Oct. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1815_2011_GSL_Code_S_Aug. etc etc etc At a point there were like 15-20 terrans in each code so the winrates don't even do it justice,and no they weren't the better players,not that much better. Pretty sure you can find more if you go back to the times of 5rax reaper mayhem,GSL1-1-1,lolemp and others. My point wasn't even the winrate,it was how people behaved. And I'm not a veteran for what ever that means.
So from 70% TvZ we now are at higher Terran representation in GSL. We all know Terran dominated in Korea(ther are still 14 Terrans in last GSl eventough its hard to argue that Terran is imba now) problem is that now Zerg dominates In Korea, foreign scene and ladder.Almost every tournament based on qualifiers is overpopulated by Zerg players(outside of Code S)
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On December 26 2012 14:59 LaLuSh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I dont see a difference in strategies between Flash and other Terran's (besides Fantasy's) TvP yet I see no complains and still see fans licking Flash's balls.
In SC2, Terran is strong early to mid game in TvZ but weak lategame OMG ZERGS TURTLING TO LATE GAME VS TERRAN! common sense = imba? lol
In BW, you never see Protosses playing passive vs turtling Terrans they either do agressive harasses or expand greedily to gain advantages. SC2 Terran has the best harassing units and the best greedy expands (you can still make use of your orbital even if is not safe to expand with it). If you like to play passive or standard, you should switch to Zerg and Terran is not for you. There is a difference. A big difference. What the difference is you'll have to see in the thread I'm posting in 6 hours. Teaser: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/56JZY.png)
Lalush being baller  cant wait to see this
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Maybe I'm just to stupid to comprehend, but what is that image supposed to convey? I honestly don't know what to make of it.
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On December 26 2012 21:38 AceHigh. wrote:
Maybe I'm just to stupid to comprehend, but what is that image supposed to convey? I honestly don't know what to make of it.
that you only need 3 bases. getting more is not usefull at all
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It will probably boil down to fewer resources per base(known as frb) or other ways to reduce income per base.
Something which Blizzard has been unwilling to consider as of yet.
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On December 26 2012 20:56 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 19:48 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 26 2012 08:42 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 08:26 keglu wrote:On December 26 2012 08:00 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 07:43 plogamer wrote:On December 26 2012 07:33 TheKefka wrote:On December 26 2012 04:02 kollin wrote:On December 26 2012 03:53 nomyx wrote:
To everyone saying that zergs are only winning due to their race, consider that the best players are zergs. Zerg requires the most multi-tasking and mechanics of any race, and strong mechanics make zerg a strong race. I do very much so hope this is a sarcastic post... Nop its the same thing delusional people were saying about terrans when they were steamrolling everything and every top 8 was a TvT. Also that artosis blog,ah yes,that artosis blog. What a ridiculous statement. Terrans were "steamrolling" everything?... Speaking of delusion, I think you're missing a mirror. Yes, Terrans were dominating, but not to the extend that Zergs are "steamrolling" everyone with a giant, easy-to-use, deathball. Actually, pre-Queen buff, TvZ in Korea was 50%~, not quite the steam-roll you claim. And the global win-rate wasn't even that even since Terrans only dominated in Korea and nowhere else. Read the OP before you spew nonsense into a thread that is already filled with misinformation please. The fuck are you talking about? Did I specify a moment in where terrans were steamrolling everything?Did I say it was right before queen buff? No I clearly didn't.I just made a ambiguous statement about people that are ready to defend clearly imbalanced shit regardless what race it is or what time period,because if I remember correctly there were points in time where terrans had 70%win rate against a race and steamrolling is clearly the appropriate term and even than there were people that said it's not a problem and that the other races should just figure it out.Did i say what point that was?No. Did the guy specify what he means?No. So what the fuck is your problem? Seriously 70%? I mean if you make stuff up at least make it reasonable. Better yet dont make stuff up. Oh let's see.67% winrate TvP at GSL season1,70% winrate for zergs in season 2 against protoss,65% winrate for terrans vs P in 2011 January season,74% winrate for PvZ somewhere in 2012 I can't really remember.It's fairly easy to google shit so I'm told. In fact there are so many examples where the winrate for some race went over 65% that it's pretty sad. My point was just that there always are some people defending obvious imbalances whether it be maps,units,race mechanics or w/e,so people shouldn't be surprised. Also before these "patch zergs" the only foreign players who even took a game off koreans were mostly protoss,so yea. Wait, so you cannot even find a single tournament of terrans having a 70%> win rate against any race and somehow the other guy is wrong and to be ignored? You were the one caught in your own hyperbole. Man up and own up when you are wrong. I expected a more level-headed approach from a veteran. Wow people are going to make me google everything for them- http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1315_2011_GSL_Code_A_Mayhttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1995_2011_GSL_Code_S_Oct. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/leagues/1815_2011_GSL_Code_S_Aug. etc etc etc At a point there were like 15-20 terrans in each code so the winrates don't even do it justice,and no they weren't the better players,not that much better. Pretty sure you can find more if you go back to the times of 5rax reaper mayhem,GSL1-1-1,lolemp and others. My point wasn't even the winrate,it was how people behaved. And I'm not a veteran for what ever that means.
Theres no point to you posting this. This is when the game was at its infancy....... these statistics are meaningless now. You might as well use stats from beta where 4 gate was raping everything.
The fact is, the game has been played for a significant time now and there are some glaring issues that blizzard is either too incompetent or simply refuses to address.
Its not good for the long term health of the game. With the way blizzard works now, it will be more difficult to have private ladders and community members who can fix things.
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On December 26 2012 10:41 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I didn't follow that much BW but I seriously doubt Flash turtled for 20mins then boxed everything and a-moved to opponents base.
I can confirm that Flash did indeed not do this.
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On December 26 2012 21:09 TheKefka wrote:
Yea it's clearly a good sign of a balanced game when the race distribution for the best tournament in the world is 20 terrans,5 ps and 5 Zs.Clearly they just got there on a random drawing and no qualifiers were played,they raffled off Code A and S spots and terrans were the the ones having a hot luck streak.
I'm done with this thread.
Good. I'm not sure anyone understands the point you were trying to make to begin with. You took tournaments and generalized those results to win rates for the race in general, which of course is fallacious reasoning.
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On December 27 2012 01:17 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 21:09 TheKefka wrote:
Yea it's clearly a good sign of a balanced game when the race distribution for the best tournament in the world is 20 terrans,5 ps and 5 Zs.Clearly they just got there on a random drawing and no qualifiers were played,they raffled off Code A and S spots and terrans were the the ones having a hot luck streak.
I'm done with this thread. Good. I'm not sure anyone understands the point you were trying to make to begin with. You took tournaments and generalized those results to win rates for the race in general, which of course is fallacious reasoning.
Not to mention he cites results from over a year ago and says "Hey look guys! The game was really imbalanced 30 Terran nerfs ago!" Well no shit Sherlock!
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On December 27 2012 01:15 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 10:41 zezamer wrote:On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I didn't follow that much BW but I seriously doubt Flash turtled for 20mins then boxed everything and a-moved to opponents base. I can confirm that Flash did indeed not do this.
Yeah in bw, you had to box like 3-4 times to get everything moving.
trolololo
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man with an image like that im ready to have my socks rocked by mathcraft idk about you guys
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On December 27 2012 01:51 m3rciless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 01:15 zmansman17 wrote:On December 26 2012 10:41 zezamer wrote:On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I didn't follow that much BW but I seriously doubt Flash turtled for 20mins then boxed everything and a-moved to opponents base. I can confirm that Flash did indeed not do this. Yeah in bw, you had to box like 3-4 times to get everything moving. trolololo
Anyone remember that discussion at HSC6 when there were 3 protoss on the couch arguing whether it was better to have all your units in 2 or 3 groups? I think it was Feast, Rotti and Grubby- the best quote was something along the lines of "nah with 3 groups you can get confused and mess up" and Grubbys response: "Spoken like a true WC3 player". Ahahahahaha.
WTB elephant stompede (intended).
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On December 27 2012 01:15 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 10:41 zezamer wrote:On December 26 2012 10:08 ppshchik wrote:
Turtling to Broodlord Infestor is no different from BW Terrans doing Flash's turtling to 3/3 maxed mech off 3 bases. I didn't follow that much BW but I seriously doubt Flash turtled for 20mins then boxed everything and a-moved to opponents base. I can confirm that Flash did indeed not do this.
If you try to turtle on three bases in BW you'll prolly just die.
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Zerg so op lol Very rarely have ghost been made with cloak to emp infestors very rarely have ravens been made to help reduce scans needed to remove creep & limit zerg mobility not enough terrans who used drops and/or multiprong harass effectively and yet they wonder why they lost lol
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EPT
