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On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid?
Hi there rude human.
I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it).
I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998.
Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics.
Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op.
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On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op.
followed your link and instructions
Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%)
Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%)
this is for the most recent season of GSL.
Edit:
Code S PvZ: 9-14 (39.13%)
Code A PvZ: 5-3 (62.5%)
Would be interested to see win rates on 2 Rax and Immortal / Sentry All-in to see how much those contributed (saw a lot of both this season).
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I havent posted here in months along with watched or played a SC2 game for this reason. Bravo. I do check in from time to time to see if anything has changed guess not they've even learned to abuse it more.
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On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation.
Try again with the right stats. Maybe when you'll see the REAL numbers you'll understand more what's going on. Logic based on false stats ends up making wrong conclusions.
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On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation.
You nailed it. Foreign terrans are doing bad because what they have to do is 10 times more difficult than their zerg counterparts. Again, when have you last seen a terran player winning tournmanets by practicing a couple of hours a day?
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On December 04 2012 14:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 14:05 gslavik wrote:
I have said it in numerous other places as well. If we let Blizzard "balance" the game, it is not a sport. Something that is a sport should not be controlled by a private entity. With all these feelings about bad design, I would like to propose that maps are instead made with their own units and their own spells. Look at SC2BW maps for some of the possibilities. tahts just impossible, pros would be unable to practice since every tournament would be different youd have to have ltierally every tournament agree on one map to use and even then someone would have to balance so youd just be changing it from blizzard to a different party Show nested quote +the entire Top 4 consists of no-name players who broke out and became incredibly good (maybe with the exception of Ryung).
uh leenock? the top 4 are all extremely good players just because there not the super famous personalities doesnt degrade there skill
That is true (unfortunately). Please also consider that basketball rules are different between NBA (USA) and FIBA (rest of the world). The skills involved are the same (macro/micro). I think what really needs to happen is that we have a set of maps with any/all modifications that gain popularity with the general audience.
History sidestory: In first version of basketball, the basket was on the ground. Defenders would flip the basket over to not let the other team score. Then the basket would be nailed down to the floor. Eventually the basket was put in the air, but then the fans sitting on balconies behind the basket would swat the ball, so the backboard was added.
Look at soccer, it changed over the course of many years as well. American football evolved from rugby. A true sport can change the gameplay. But they all kept the same skills. No matter what RTS comes out with any kind of units, there will always be a certain core skillset needed:
1. macro (maintaining economy and building an army)
2. micro (positioning your army and managing smaller pieces of them)
3. strategy (scouting what the oponent is doing and responding to it as fast as possibly).
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On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation.
Where do you get those winrates from? They don't make sense at all. GomTV official winrates say:
Last GSL
TvZ: 38.2% source
PvZ 41.5% source
So if you didn't use the official GomTV stats, where else did you get them from? Maybe TLPD?
Okay, let's check TLPD:
Code S:
TvZ: 38.1%
PvZ: 34.5%
source
Code A has way too few games, but you can check the stats here
And please tell me when Terran had 65% win against Zerg... I really want to see that because I can't remember it being that bad.
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On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL.
LOLOL this is hilarious.
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On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL.
haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics  )
well this was constructive :D
still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS?
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I miss the old style terran where everything was imba, even if it was stupid and hard to play against. Instead of nerfing reapers, hellions, tanks and ghosts they could have buffed other races responses and micro-able units of their own.
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On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS?
never mind, i found them:
DH Winter:
TvZ: 61%
PvZ: 56%
WCS:
TVZ: 50%
PVZ: 59%
amirite?
GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense.
i find the racial balance fine as it is
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On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS?
WCS would be a bad indicator since it was basically foreign Zergs vs Korean Protoss (and too few Terran- and all foreigner at that- for any statistics from them to be meaningful)
We had a top 4 consisting of 2 Terran and 2 Zerg and neither of those ended in a 3-0 for zerg (although bogus did 3-0 a zerg in the only TvZ in round of 8) so I feel like that at least should count for something.
However, we can look at the previous GSL season which had a very close (4-3) TvZ Finals
Code S TvZ: 27-36 (42.85%)
(Code A not conveniently posted)
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On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op.
Finding statistic is easy, posting them on meassage board is not based on your example, since all your stats are incorrect.
Good job.
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On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is
Source? Also, the DH statistics are heavily skewed by Taeja and Hero being the only high level Korean players at the tournament (the only other korean being ForGG, another Terran) and I already explained that WCS was Korean Protoss vs Foreigner Zerg. If you want more interesting stats why not look at WCS NA / EU regional finals (where skill levels are arguably more even)? I think you'll find them very Zerg dominated.
Edit: Was wrong, there was another Korean at DreamHack, TheStC, also Terran
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On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:On December 04 2012 11:26 theman1213 wrote:
bla bla zerg op coz hyun won 14 ipl fight clubs- This. I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase post the source to your statistics. You failed once and these statistics look weird considering there were only 2 Terrans in the Round of 12 of Dreamhack Winter and WCS Finals had only 4 Terrans out of 32 players...
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On December 04 2012 21:31 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:
[quote]
This.
I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase post the source to your statistics. You failed once and these statistics look weird considering there were only 2 Terrans in the Round of 12 of Dreamhack Winter and WCS Finals had only 4 Terrans out of 32 players...
It's the Taeja effect. He 2-0's or 3-0's a bunch of Foreigner Zergs and makes TvZ look balanced if you only look at stats.
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As a zerg player, i cant understand why other zerg players still cant admit that zerg is currently OP in the late game, mostly due to infestors. I do miss mmm vs mutaling play, where you have to fly around harassing with your mutas sniping as many tanks as possible. but there has been a point where mutaling play just isnt enough anymore, a good mix of mmm tanks and thors causing the mid game fights to be more and more 1 sided, u can clearly see this in games where zerg players like drg or idra try to bring back mutaling into the scene only to fail horribly. Personally, i would really like to c mmm vs mutaling to come back into play rather than the boring infestorlings, it is way more exciting to watch in the progaming scene. But for that to exist, a nerf on infestor must be done but must be accompanied by some buff on the zerg side for that midgame in TvZ will not be so 1 sided, a buff in mutas may be the answer to this, but protoss players will start complaining about mutas again. And protoss players should NOT even complain about infestors. We are forced to use it due to the imbalanced broken forcefield shit. I mean come on man, u expect roach hydra to beat your forcefield shit army?? I am happy of where ZvP is going although late game can be very boring but i have to admit that ZvT is broken. It is not easy to nerf infestors to a level that it is still usable in mid game and yet not imbalanced in the late game.
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On December 04 2012 21:31 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:
[quote]
This.
I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase post the source to your statistics. You failed once and these statistics look weird considering there were only 2 Terrans in the Round of 12 of Dreamhack Winter and WCS Finals had only 4 Terrans out of 32 players...
found them too :
gvg : 35 %
abcdefgh....z vs infestor : 5% (when they headbutt into defeat)
See, everyone can make stuff up, just fumigate the vermin and send him to disneyland please.
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On December 04 2012 21:31 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:
[quote]
This.
I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase post the source to your statistics. You failed once and these statistics look weird considering there were only 2 Terrans in the Round of 12 of Dreamhack Winter and WCS Finals had only 4 Terrans out of 32 players...
yeah, he is funny guy, WCS TvZ results are based on 3 series...., Dreamhack was 3 Korean T+ Thorzain againts 8 Euro Zergs.
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On December 04 2012 21:31 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:26 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:18 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 21:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 04 2012 21:06 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:55 Shady Sands wrote:On December 04 2012 20:52 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 20:18 mrvidek wrote:On December 04 2012 19:38 JediMasterBETTY wrote:On December 04 2012 19:09 theman1213 wrote:
[quote]
This.
I totaly agree with you man. yea right, zerg op coz huyn won 14 ipl fight clubs in a row.. you can look at it another way, u know: in the last 14 ipl fight clubs, no zerg except HuyN won!! wow! he just is doing very well in IPL fight club. Another thing, in 14 finals he only met 1 zerg, the other 13 finalists were mostly P and some T. HyuN and Life are the only 2 zergs that made it to IPL fight club finals in the last 14 weeks!! another thing, let's look at last month major tournaments (I mention the first and 2nd prize): WCS pvp creator vs parting for USD 100k/40k GSL zvz Sniper vs HyuN USD 42k/17k IPL5 zvz leenock vs violet USD 40k/20k WCG's pvp final parting vs adelscott for USD 25k/10k IEM Singapore's tvp sting vs grubby final for USD 6.5k/3.3k Dreamhack winter's pvt hero vs taeja final for USD 37k/15k Protoss total earnings: USD 215.3k wcs 100+40 wcg 25+10 IEM 3.3 dh: 37 Zerg total earnings: USD : 119k gsl 42+17 ipl5 40+20 Terran total earnings: USD : 21.5k IEM 6.5 dh: 15 Not to mention IPTL season 1 where in the finals only parting, mvp and squirtle won games, with a price of USD 9k so that kindof goes to either P or T. So what's op again? Sure fungal is good, but so is bunker, medivac, marauder, so is forcefield and immortal, vortex or any other thing u can think correctly executed. Just try to play the game, infestor broodlord is not by far imba. Harass works great against it. Try not to be biassed. These are my thoughts (EU master zerg). You must be kidding. Or at least i hope u posted in the wrong thread by mistake. Just because 2 protoss got into WCS final and won A LOT of money means P>Z overall. Oh cool. This means protoss is 10x better than terran. guess not. Try again. No, it doesnt mean P>Z overall. But neither does HyuN's IPL fight club or 2 zvz finals mean Z>P overall. From my personal experience, i have the best win rate in zvz. Of course this is not relevant, but check the pro win rates. You will find them quite balanced: GSL November Code S: PvZ 50.0% TvZ 53.1% GSL November Code A: PvZ 56.00% TvZ 51.85% How is Z op when it has a subunitary WLR?? Moreover, the graphs in Ver's post show that foreigners don't win much vs koreans as terran. That's because current foreigner terrans aren't in that good of a shape. I mean... lucifron? thorzain? not really ... When terran had a 65% win ratio in tvz (a year ago) it was normal. Now that zerg wins ALMOST 50% of the games vs terran Z is op. Please explain the logic, coz just saying "zerg op" "infestor op" "you gotta be kidding me" "no skill a move race" really is not a logical explanation. Oh hai there new social media smurfbot. Earning your 40 bucks for setting up this account, I see. Can you please explain how you know how to find specific league stats in TLPD while only having two posts on teamliquid? Hi there rude human. I never had a TL account because i generally dont post (well i never posted on TL, .. i did post 2-3 comments on reddit and that's it). I have internet access, i follow and play sc:bw and now sc2 since 1998. Finding statistics is very easy: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5 > go to Code S Statistics / Code A Statistics. Anything else i can help you with? Thanks for caring. Now can we get back on topic and can you say something constructive like for example that you agree with me, or if not, bring some real proof that zerg is op. followed your link and instructions Code S TvZ: 18-34 (34.62%) Code A TvZ: 3-6 (33%) this is for the most recent season of GSL. haha ok my bad :D you are right. i was looking at GSL november 2011 statistics ) well this was constructive :D still, it was stupid for me to give as an example a tournament that ended in a zvz final. Anyone knows stats for dreamhack/WCS? never mind, i found them: DH Winter: TvZ: 61% PvZ: 56% WCS: TVZ: 50% PVZ: 59% amirite? GSL and IPL are indeed zerg dominated, but, being the two tournaments won by zerg, that kindof makes sense. i find the racial balance fine as it is Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase post the source to your statistics. You failed once and these statistics look weird considering there were only 2 Terrans in the Round of 12 of Dreamhack Winter and WCS Finals had only 4 Terrans out of 32 players...
The source is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_DreamHack_Open/Winter
I counted the maps won:
TheStC 1 2 Stephano
TaeJa 2 0 Stephano
TheStC 0 2 Snute
TaeJa 2 1 Snute
ForGG 2 0 Ret
ThorZaIN 1 2 Ret
TaeJa 3 0 Nerchio
11 7
TvZ: 61.11 %
Stephano 0 2 fraer
Stephano 2 1 elfi
Snute 0 2 elfi
Snute 2 1 fraer
Bly 2 1 StarNaN
Bly 2 1 SaSe
Bly 0 2 Socke
Bly 0 2 MaNa
Bly 2 1 Feast
Nerchio 0 2 monchi
TLO 2 1 monchi
DIMAGA 0 2 monchi
TargA 0 2 monchi
TLO 2 1 Bischu
Nerchio 2 0 Bischu
DIMAGA 2 0 Bischu
TargA 0 2 Bischu
Ret 1 2 HerO
Ret 1 2 NaNiwa
Ret 0 2 NightEnD
Nerchio 3 1 Fraer
Nerchio 3 0 MaNa
Snute 0 3 Hero
26 33
PvZ: 55.93 %
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EPT
