Lings of Liberty: The Rise of the Patchzergs - Page 48

On December 04 2012 21:35 Pursuit_ wrote:


It's the Taeja effect. He 2-0's or 3-0's a bunch of Foreigner Zergs and makes TvZ look balanced if you only look at stats.

On December 04 2012 21:39 JediMasterBETTY wrote:


The source is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_DreamHack_Open/Winter
I counted the maps won:
 TheStC 1 2 Stephano 
TaeJa  2 0  Stephano
TheStC  0 2  Snute
TaeJa  2 1  Snute
ForGG  2 0  Ret
ThorZaIN  1 2  Ret
TaeJa  3 0 Nerchio
11 7
TvZ: 61.11 %

Stephano  0 2  fraer
Stephano  2 1  elfi
 Snute 0 2 elfi 
 Snute 2 1 fraer 
Bly  2 1  StarNaN
Bly  2 1  SaSe
Bly  0 2  Socke
 Bly 0 2 MaNa 
Bly  2 1  Feast
Nerchio  0 2  monchi
TLO  2 1  monchi
DIMAGA  0 2  monchi
TargA  0 2  monchi
TLO  2 1  Bischu
Nerchio  2 0  Bischu
DIMAGA  2 0  Bischu
TargA  0 2  Bischu
Ret  1 2  HerO
Ret  1 2  NaNiwa
Ret  0 2  NightEnD
Nerchio  3 1 Fraer
Nerchio  3 0 MaNa
Snute 0 3 Hero
26 33
PvZ: 55.93 %

On December 04 2012 19:51 oZe wrote:
LOL he said ez mode terran was hard to play ^^^^^^^^ Just never tried toss or zerg I guess... Is it the 4aaaad5s6d that is soooooooooo hard =) Is having to press T one time to win any battle really that insanely hard?

Any zerg player can switch to terran and enjoy similar or better win rate within one week. I seriously doubt a terran player could switch and do as well as fast. I think a protoss player also can make the one week transition. Terran has the easiest macro, the most effective micro, walling nirvana, most versatile units & the best unit combinations. Zerg T3 cannot even shoot air. Toss have to jump around on map just to macro.

Only problem with terran is storm but everyone is complaining about kid sister fungal ^^ Do these "terran so hard"-trolls even play the game???

On December 04 2012 21:36 weiliem wrote:
As a zerg player, i cant understand why other zerg players still cant admit that zerg is currently OP in the late game, mostly due to infestors. I do miss mmm vs mutaling play, where you have to fly around harassing with your mutas sniping as many tanks as possible. but there has been a point where mutaling play just isnt enough anymore, a good mix of mmm tanks and thors causing the mid game fights to be more and more 1 sided, u can clearly see this in games where zerg players like drg or idra try to bring back mutaling into the scene only to fail horribly. Personally, i would really like to c mmm vs mutaling to come back into play rather than the boring infestorlings, it is way more exciting to watch in the progaming scene. But for that to exist, a nerf on infestor must be done but must be accompanied by some buff on the zerg side for that midgame in TvZ will not be so 1 sided, a buff in mutas may be the answer to this, but protoss players will start complaining about mutas again. And protoss players should NOT even complain about infestors. We are forced to use it due to the imbalanced broken forcefield shit. I mean come on man, u expect roach hydra to beat your forcefield shit army?? I am happy of where ZvP is going although late game can be very boring but i have to admit that ZvT is broken. It is not easy to nerf infestors to a level that it is still usable in mid game and yet not imbalanced in the late game.

2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration

On December 04 2012 21:43 TeeTS wrote:


you know how few sense it makes to take stats from a tournament where one race's participation is below 20%?

On December 04 2012 20:34 Godwrath wrote:



Even at those levels protoss is less demanding mechanically speaking.

On December 04 2012 21:48 Pursuit_ wrote:


You have to look at stats in context or they become meaningless. I doubt you would say Playhem statistics are as valuable as Dreamhack, which in turn aren't as valuable as GSL which inarguably has the highest level of play. A top level player beating mediocre European Zergs and Stephano isn't really indicative of anything.

But if Stat's are all that matter to you, here's another stat. According to SC2 Gears I have a 38% win rate TvZ, a 56% Win Rate TvP and a 69% win Rate TvT.

On December 04 2012 21:49 FXO.Slavik wrote:
Only zergs are winning TT so imba! :D

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments

if infestors are that good, why do zergs lose games? \

infested terrans are really imbalanced, because you can trade mana on units, that's not fair, it needs nerf, but fungals are ok, its almost same with being off position and trapped by forcefields or losing some units to siege tanks, you just need to be more careful with your units, especially in late game.
I think that zergs sucked a lot, but then they started thinking more and playing different, instead of playing muta ling baneling T2 forever or slow transition into T3 they started rushing for T3, almost no terrans except for Taeja or MVP rush for T3, they keep spaming marines tanks vs broodlords, make late transition, being at big disadvantage they try to come back in the game, but they just cant because of big disadvantage, and its gg.
The same with protoss players, a lot of toss players keep fighting with broodlords infestors having only stalkers, of course with better micro you can beat zerg army with pure stalkers, but if zerg is as good as you he wont allow you, and look at Squirtle, if he sees that zerg is not agressive he is teching to carriers and when zerg player has broodlord infestor army, he immediately has a good answer.
People complain on infestor, yes, this unit is very good and universal, but without it it's impossible to beat other races, in big fights you should spam infested terrans, neural parasite opponent's units and also fungal units, its microing one unit but that anywat requires micro, because your units can get stormed or vortexed or can catch seeker missile and it's immediately gg.

Players are always finding out something new, a year ago people played without knowing all the timing till almost 20th minute, games were very short, you couldnt really see a lot of 40-50 minute games, because players didnt think about late late late game, they were focusing on middle game, right now zergs are almost always teching to T3. How it was before: zergs was forever on t2, then zerg after failing at t2 started teching to hive, then zerg started teching straight to hive but died to timing attacks, then zerg learned how to defend timing attacks, defended with first broodlords and it was immediately gg for opponent, then opponents learned how to counter broodlord counter attacks, now it's developed further, and it's developing more and more, players got many stuff to learn and to practice, and with Hots there will be even more units and blizzard is making it more casual because it will be even harder to count perfect unit composition, to position your army, to micro ALL you units ^^

I think terrans forgot about thor drop on LT, siege pushes on steppes of war and of course... 5 rax reapers :D I remember terrans said: hey, zergs, you are just bad! you'd better learn to play instead of whine!
same shit here ^^

On December 04 2012 21:51 Pursuit_ wrote:


Yes it does. If you had 100 bronze league Zergs, 2 bronze league Terrans and one Taeja in a tournament it HUGELY affects the win rate of Terran as opposed to, say, 100 bronze Zergs and 99 bronze Terran and one Taeja. Obviously you have no idea how stats work.

On December 04 2012 21:53 JediMasterBETTY wrote:


if you look at my original post in this reply/reply/repy chain, the discussion started from me saying that zergs dont have the most earnings (USD) in the last month. Protoss do (mostly from the pvp WCS and WCG finals). Ok GSL is a lot more relevant than Dreamhack, of course. But WCS is irrelevant as well? There we have 50% TvZ and 59% PvZ. And you can't say that we did not have good koreans in WCS or that THE tourney with the biggest prize ever did not pose any interest for the koreans.
Dont forget OSL too, where we had only one zerg in the ro8.

On December 04 2012 21:49 FXO.Slavik wrote:
Only zergs are winning TT so imba! :D

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments

if infestors are that good, why do zergs lose games? \

infested terrans are really imbalanced, because you can trade mana on units, that's not fair, it needs nerf, but fungals are ok, its almost same with being off position and trapped by forcefields or losing some units to siege tanks, you just need to be more careful with your units, especially in late game.
I think that zergs sucked a lot, but then they started thinking more and playing different, instead of playing muta ling baneling T2 forever or slow transition into T3 they started rushing for T3, almost no terrans except for Taeja or MVP rush for T3, they keep spaming marines tanks vs broodlords, make late transition, being at big disadvantage they try to come back in the game, but they just cant because of big disadvantage, and its gg.
The same with protoss players, a lot of toss players keep fighting with broodlords infestors having only stalkers, of course with better micro you can beat zerg army with pure stalkers, but if zerg is as good as you he wont allow you, and look at Squirtle, if he sees that zerg is not agressive he is teching to carriers and when zerg player has broodlord infestor army, he immediately has a good answer.
People complain on infestor, yes, this unit is very good and universal, but without it it's impossible to beat other races, in big fights you should spam infested terrans, neural parasite opponent's units and also fungal units, its microing one unit but that anywat requires micro, because your units can get stormed or vortexed or can catch seeker missile and it's immediately gg.

Players are always finding out something new, a year ago people played without knowing all the timing till almost 20th minute, games were very short, you couldnt really see a lot of 40-50 minute games, because players didnt think about late late late game, they were focusing on middle game, right now zergs are almost always teching to T3. How it was before: zergs was forever on t2, then zerg after failing at t2 started teching to hive, then zerg started teching straight to hive but died to timing attacks, then zerg learned how to defend timing attacks, defended with first broodlords and it was immediately gg for opponent, then opponents learned how to counter broodlord counter attacks, now it's developed further, and it's developing more and more, players got many stuff to learn and to practice, and with Hots there will be even more units and blizzard is making it more casual because it will be even harder to count perfect unit composition, to position your army, to micro ALL you units ^^

I think terrans forgot about thor drop on LT, siege pushes on steppes of war and of course... 5 rax reapers :D I remember terrans said: hey, zergs, you are just bad! you'd better learn to play instead of whine!
same shit here ^^

On December 04 2012 21:56 JediMasterBETTY wrote:


if you only want to insult then go ahead, i can start as well. Who exactly are those bronze zergs? Stephano? Nerchio?