EPTDustin Browder WCS TL Interview - Page 26
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DwindleFlip
United States32 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On November 21 2012 08:40 DwindleFlip wrote: Dustin Browder just doesnt get it. He really thinks you must be Korean to win with terran? This is ridiculous. Fire him immediately Blizzard. Yeah, you gotta be really good at Terran to win -- against other Koreans, who are also very good. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 21 2012 08:40 DwindleFlip wrote: Dustin Browder just doesnt get it. He really thinks you must be Korean to win with terran? This is ridiculous. Fire him immediately Blizzard. He never said that. He just compared foreign terrans and then korean terrans. By foreign terrans you would think terran is by far the worst race in the game, look at korean terrans and the stats are completely opposite. They are saying it's hard to buff terran to help foreign terrans because terran is not struggling in korea. A small buff to terran may help foreign terrans compete more but then puts terran in korea at uber domination mode. Just look at early sc2, foreign terrans have almost always struggled, but then korean terrans still dominated everything. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:31 paradiset16 wrote: . . Ok the Amin thing that differs between races that makes other races dumb is that they don't have the mental stability to just figure out what to do when they have. The ability that the races have to Harrass and expand and just build an army is substantial to what Zerg can only do they can ONLY rather all in or expand and go to the late game they can't harass they can't lost a BASE!!!!! And still win what Terran can do : go marine murader drops with expos and building a good army of tanks and bio with vicking if you see Burt lords , and o shit doesn't Terran have a spell caster that can do emp and take away all energy from and spell caster o shit why don't they use this and then the bio and tanks and Vikings can't get fungled ooh look at that !!!!!!! And or right now Thor vicking is one o the best compositions you can do Protos: first thing wasn't the bwc finals 2 Protoss wow look at that and they don't need and thing the have the best units and they use them but don't use them to the fullest blink stalkers are the most bull shit unit every I never knew they were able to turn into immortals when they get blink and the do a shit ton of damage also if proposes are complaining about getting neural end and then vortex is gone don't be a dumb ass and send the mother ship to the front of your army they had more range than neural and it's a automatic spell no delay like neural And there you go and that's what you can do !!!!!!!!! : also Protoss can just have 8-12 hightemplar and mass storm any army will just melt and o look high Templar also has a spell that can actually kill infestors and and are better range than infestors so I don't know why you all complain and bitch I'm sick of hearing this bitching uhhhh wat? If this is a legit post... which I find extremely hard to believe... then I don't even. It's not even like you can blame all of that on typing mistakes, you used the term "Burt lords" among other things. | ||
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krok(obs)
Germany264 Posts
On November 21 2012 08:45 Erik.TheRed wrote: uhhhh wat? If this is a legit post... which I find extremely hard to believe... then I don't even. It's not even like you can blame all of that on typing mistakes, you used the term "Burt lords" among other things. this has to be one of the funniest things ive ever read on tl. ffs i still cant stop laughing...burt lords hahaha | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2802 Posts
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On November 21 2012 08:39 SarcasmMonster wrote: I'm talking about statisically for all matchups in the international scene. So how did you make conclusion that Terran was dominating till May 2012 from this graph? http://imgur.com/a/1iwo8 | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:09 EsX_Raptor wrote: Would somebody explain to me what he meant when he talks about map restrictions due to Stephano's Roach style? protoss needs small choke for their third or they cant hold it against zerg basically but its not really about "stephano roach max style" thats kind of just him tryign to sound informed its more of an issue with zergs rate of production and needing forcefields to stay alive when they attack you in two places edit: not a small choke, but like a "forcefieldable choke" the best example i can give is the difference between the third base on ohana (close to other bases, you can forcefield against your nexus and ramp to make a wall) and the third base on something like... antiga or maybe dual sight. on these maps to travel from your nat to your 3rd you have to put yourself in a vulnerable place where forcefields cannot guard you as easily | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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MrHavix
United States53 Posts
Props to Dustin for his passionate and very detailed responses. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:26 MrHavix wrote: I would prefer that next time TL interviews Rock, there are a few more positive questions. There is a lot of frustration with the game right now but it appears we are ungrateful for their hard work. Props to Dustin for his passionate and very detailed responses. its okay to be ungrateful if you are a customer imo | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:09 EsX_Raptor wrote: Would somebody explain to me what he meant when he talks about map restrictions due to Stephano's Roach style? He's referring to the fact that, in order to take and hold a third base in PvZ, the third base needs to be somewhat close to the natural, with entrances that can be easily defended with forcefield, due to the fact that zerg can simply have too many units for protoss to defend against otherwise. Protoss units are too weak (by this I mean that they aren't horrendously overpowered), and the race's production is too slow to hold against zerg on open ground, so you need forcefields to take a third base. Because zerg units are faster than protoss units, protoss needs to be able to bounce between his natural and third base quickly, which means the third has to be close. This means maps have to have a ridiculously easy to take third base in order for PvZ to even be playable. PvT is pretty okay on almost any map to be honest, although drop play can be really tough to deal with if the third is a large distance away. TvZ is fine on most maps because of planetary fortresses, so it's really PvZ that restricts the map pool. It's also a big reason why gold bases can't work: zerg can take them almost risk free early on in PvZ but Protoss will never gain ANY benefit from a gold base, since he can't generally take it at all until he's done making workers anyway, and gold bases when fully saturated aren't much different than any other base. TLDR: Any map without a close and super easy to defend third base is unplayable PvZ. | ||
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
This means we should all be focused on playing and giving feedback to the things he mentioned here. I highly suggest messing with late-game Air build times. Raven and Void Ray could use a 5-10 second build time reduction.. Carrier about 20 seconds, and Battlecruiser 10 or 15. Not only is this is a better buff to get all these units in play more often, but it evens out the late game vs Zergs. The tech switching ability Zerg has is almost instantaneous, just need to add one building. They don't need to add 5 Stargates or Starports and abandon their other buildings, they just add one building and pump from the same ones they were using. I understand this is part of the race imbalance that makes the game interesting, but right now any XvZ build simply has to end before late game, and this is the exact reason why. To buff the build times (whether by a few seconds for the Raven or quite a few for the Carrier) will bring them back into late-game play, without really ruining any current matchup balance. A few other suggestions: Haywire Missile upgrade on the Thor instead of Strike Cannons. (provides Terran another option to deal with Immortal besides ghosts, which are considered better for Bio play. Would arrive late enough to not be overpowered.) Oracle Time Warp slows attack speed, not movement speed. (would be more useful as a defense spell instead of a trap spell. would help vs air units like corruptors and vikings from sniping Colossi, and vs ground units like marines and infestedterrans from sniping buildings.) Infestor Fungal Growth slows Air movement speed, while still rooting Ground. II can't think of a reason this does not make sense, especially with Hydra/Viper for air defense. The ability to snag any Air unit anywhere is what makes Fungal so powerful, and Viper Abduct can still accomplish this.) Mothership has Shield Battery ability. (would make it a more micro-intensive unit, instead of taking it out of the competitive game. would provide a choice between Battery or Vortex, and also make it a harder choice whether to upgrade the MsCore.) | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
Which is great, cus then i can use that as an example for where they do listen to the community, but the community isn't always right (to argue against people who keep QQing about how they don't listen or should I say completely obey everything the community wants at any point in time, how they stare blindly at stats and not gameplay, how they didn't accept the suggested path finding changes which people said will add significant change to gameplay,blah blah blah) blargh, still so excited for all the patches for WoL/HotS etc ;O | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:19 keglu wrote: So how did you make conclusion that Terran was dominating till May 2012 from this graph? http://imgur.com/a/1iwo8 Because May 2012 is the first time in 22 months that  win rate dips below 50%. I don't think it's that controversial to say that is very dominant for an extremely long time. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:33 frostalgia wrote: Awesome interview, really cool to hear what their focus will be on coming up. This means we should all be focused on playing and giving feedback to the things he mentioned here. I highly suggest messing with late-game Air build times. Raven and Void Ray could use a 5-10 second build time reduction.. Carrier about 20 seconds, and Battlecruiser 10 or 15. Not only is this is a better buff to get all these units in play more often, but it evens out the late game vs Zergs. The tech switching ability Zerg has is almost instantaneous, just need to add one building. They don't need to add 5 Stargates or Starports and abandon their other buildings, they just add one building and pump from the same ones they were using. I understand this is part of the race imbalance that makes the game interesting, but right now any XvZ build simply has to end before late game, and this is the exact reason why. To buff the build times (whether by a few seconds for the Raven or quite a few for the Carrier) will bring them back into late-game play, without really ruining any current matchup balance. A few other suggestions: Haywire Missile upgrade on the Thor instead of Strike Cannons. (provides Terran another option to deal with Immortal besides ghosts, which are considered better for Bio play. Would arrive late enough to not be overpowered.) Oracle Time Warp slows attack speed, not movement speed. (would be more useful as a defense spell instead of a trap spell. would help vs air units like corruptors and vikings, and instead allow Fungal to slow Air units, while still rooting Ground.) Mothership has Shield Battery ability. (would make it a more micro-intensive unit, instead of taking it out of the competitive game. would provide a choice between Battery or Vortex, and also make it a harder choice whether to upgrade the MsCore.) Thors shouldn't be a counter to immortals, that's the reason strike cannon was nerfed in the first place. Terran has a powerful option to deal with immortals already: it's called the ghost. One EMP and immortals become ridiculously vulnerable to tanks. The change in cost from 150/150 to 200/100 of the ghost was a mech buff. You say you want another option, but you frankly don't really need one, ghosts are just that good. Yes they're expensive on the gas, but they cost less than immortal does and cost a lot less supply, they pair exquisitely with mech. If the thor was strong against immortals, I'm not sure how protoss would respond to thors. Air can also punish immortals as well. Widow mines are great early game, but I think in the HOTS beta too many terrans rely on them for too long. Using them as a bridge unit early on to secure a third base should give you the gas count you need to add ghosts in, since generally the issue is that you take a later third with mech and then have no gas for them. Best change I think mech should receive is a drop in the tank's supply cost from 3 to 2. Wouldn't change TvZ much (broods are usually out by the time mech hits max anyway, and then terran wants to change his composition) but it would be a nice change in PvT. Siege tanks are the best part about TvT anyway. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On November 21 2012 09:32 c0sm0naut wrote: But this is a (professional) interview.its okay to be ungrateful if you are a customer imo | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
I'm not sure what to make of it though, in the interview DB and crew sound like well informed and passionate people, DB in particular looks full of energy and enthusiastic when he talks about the game. He finally sounds aware of all the issues regarding the MUs and how they play out, and he didn't quote any bullshit statistics this time, he sounded like he actually watched a lot of games. However I'm still concerned because, I don't think Blizzard knows the best ways to really balance the game. Last time I watched a DB interview he again seemed enthusiastic and well informed, but the changes Blizzard elected to do just didn't make any sense. Some of the changes to units and abilities they've done in HoTS also gave the impression that Blizzard is clueless, in that they don't have a strong core design philosophy for each race or a grasp of what the real problem is, and they where just trowing ideas around to see what would stick. The real issue is the prevalence of cheep and early to acquire micro hampering abilities have become a staple part of armies, but in turn these have wide reaching repercussions that affect every facet of design and gameplay. While they might be aware of these they still feel too reluctant to act directly against these abilities, even though they directly affect every facet of gameplay. TLDR. I feel that Blizzard doesn't have a clear vision, a plan, an overarching design for how they want their races to work and it makes them at times look clueless and/or buff/nerf units in weird ways. It feels like they have some awareness of what the issues are, but either aren't truly aware of the real underlying problem and thus want to avoid direct changes, or they are aware of the problems but don't want to alter their flawed game design. | ||
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m1rk3
Canada412 Posts
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