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On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals?
maybe because you can actually see the banelings come.
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Dustin Browder feeling the heat.
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On November 12 2012 15:12 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:56 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? 1. The Protoss deathball dies to fungals+broods 100% of the time if there isn't a lucky vortex 2. Ye, nerf infestors and buff hydras 3. Except, infestors are better at harassing than basically all of those 4. Yes, 2 infestors is good enough to stop any harass because creep spread+overlords show everything, and infested terran+fungal stops everything. 5. This is the thing that is probably confusing Blizzard right now. Players like DRG and Leenock can still rape with muta ling bling, but other zergs are too busy loling their way to victory with infestors. seems like u took my advice and edited your post, wise move even though your still completly wrong. 1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how. 2. hydras are buffed in HoTs. nothing has changed, there still useless. 3. lol. no there not. mutas are probally the best form of harassment zerg has. baneling drops with +2 atk has the potential to wipe an entire workerline from just 1 overlords worth. hell ive done it with just 2 banelings before. 4. that statement was just stupid. it doesnt stop everything because u can drop at multiple bases. overlord spread can be stoped with just 1 or 2 vikings. also the more infestors u have defending ur bases the less of them u have out on the field. the point of harassing is to keep doing it. 1 -2 infestors will NOT stop multiple drop harrase attempts. 5. what makes winning with infestors any different from winning with mutas? that makes no sense. I can't believe anyone is still dense/biased enough to not see the problem here. 1. Infestors serve every conceivable role against protoss: anti-air, dps, defence, and broodlord support. Not just neuralling mothership. Also, I find it funny that a zerg is saying "unless the toss messes up somehow". Pros and normal players alike have all expressed their frustration at how a single missed moment against zerg results in your loss. Do you have some trouble using chain fungals or anything? Last I checked it roots everything to the ground, can stack, and is supported by broodlords which fire a wall of living units that also deal dps. 2. We are saying hydras can be buffed to compensate for anti air. Just to make it so that the infestor does not fill every single niche. 3. So what? So you prove that the rest of the zerg units are not, in fact, "garbage without infestors"? Thanks. 4. Do you have some problem making static D? 5. Muta-ling-bling takes skill to use. It is impressive to watch. It may be more fun to play (not sure, I don't play zerg, but how is a spell that roots nonstop make it more fun for the player?) If you really insist on being like that, so be it. Just make sure to get ready your nerf-helmet for the inevitable nerf-bat. I will end off with a question for you: You find fungal fun to watch? Seriously?
1. Protoss of cause would complain about the slow death of fungal and broodlords but zerg complains about the one archon toilet = instant gg moment as well.
In terms of Late game, both zerg and protoss complain about how one mistake can cost the game, lucky vortex or lucky neural
It's frustrating for both sides.
2. If anything, infestors is not the reason why Toss stopped going for mid game air. Hydra doesn't work except for double stargates due to colossus switch. Unless that is like a huge upgrade like speed upgrade in Lair tech.
33. The rest of the zerg units are not "garbage" in terms of their role, they are garbage in terms of winning against a deathball. Without infestors, we would go back to zerg going all in low econ roach hydra corruptor against P deathball and we have seen enough games of how Zerg just loses despite 5 bases vs bases.
4. You can't go heavy statistics D until you have good econ running, you have to rely on infestors lings until your econ is at a relatively good level.
5. Infestors ling broodlords also take skill to use, just a different kind of skill and mindset. Muta certainly feels more fun to play and watch. But many toss would tell you how annoying and frustrating it was to play against a muta Zerg and then we had the phenoix buff which wasn't needed because Toss had figured out how to deal with it.
I will also ask you if Protoss deathball is even fun to watch? Or Forcefields and lazers and mass warp ins?
Not saying that fungal is good but Protoss isn't all that impressive either. At least in terms of deathball, I reckon both are extremely equal.
And in terms of overall strategies, nothing feels more abusive than warpgate tech and FFs
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On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come.
one could argue you can see the infestors coming
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On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come.
u cant see infestors coming? hmm i wonder why that is.
can i ask something to all the terrans out there. if detection is seriously THAT much of a problem to you why not make at the very least ONE raven? just one. why? im not going to even mention scans because i know alot of terrans are going to say "IT WASTES A MULE OMG!" despite most terrans having massive ammounts of orbitals anyway. anyway it makes no sense to me. hunter seekers are actually pretty good against broods since they cant run away from them that easily.
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On November 12 2012 15:49 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come. u cant see infestors coming? hmm i wonder why that is. can i ask something to all the terrans out there. if detection is seriously THAT much of a problem to you why not make at the very least ONE raven? just one. why? makes no sense to me. hunter seekers are actually pretty good against broods since they cant run away from them that easily.
Yeah and terrans will totally tech raven energy and seeker missiles just for that ONE raven (which sets your army strength back immensely.) Suck on your big fat nerfstick, ohhh yeah ohh.
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On November 12 2012 15:50 EmilA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:49 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come. u cant see infestors coming? hmm i wonder why that is. can i ask something to all the terrans out there. if detection is seriously THAT much of a problem to you why not make at the very least ONE raven? just one. why? makes no sense to me. hunter seekers are actually pretty good against broods since they cant run away from them that easily. Yeah and terrans will totally tech raven energy and seeker missiles just for that ONE raven (which sets your army strength back immensely.) Suck on your big fat nerfstick, ohhh yeah ohh.
LOL why would u tech raven energy and missles for one raven? bro im talking about for detection only u can make 1 raven. and if u want to MASS multiple ammounts of ravens (in other words fully dedicate to them) then im saying that hunter seekers are pretty good. 1 raven is not going to hurt u bro sense u claim to not see infestors coming at you ffs -_-
if u cant see infestors coming then use scan or ravens, if u cant then well sucks hard to be you. have fun with ur marines annihilated simply because "we cant see infestors"
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On November 12 2012 15:51 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:50 EmilA wrote:On November 12 2012 15:49 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come. u cant see infestors coming? hmm i wonder why that is. can i ask something to all the terrans out there. if detection is seriously THAT much of a problem to you why not make at the very least ONE raven? just one. why? makes no sense to me. hunter seekers are actually pretty good against broods since they cant run away from them that easily. Yeah and terrans will totally tech raven energy and seeker missiles just for that ONE raven (which sets your army strength back immensely.) Suck on your big fat nerfstick, ohhh yeah ohh. LOL why would u tech raven energy and missles for one raven? bro im talking about for detection only u can make 1 raven. and if u want to MASS multiple ammounts of ravens (in other words fully dedicate to them) then im saying that hunter seekers are pretty good.
I have seen a few players get a single raven out with their port before switching into medivac production/viking production...but then it usually gets fungaled and dies, lol.
It's not like they don't try  .
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On November 12 2012 15:54 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:51 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 15:50 EmilA wrote:On November 12 2012 15:49 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come. u cant see infestors coming? hmm i wonder why that is. can i ask something to all the terrans out there. if detection is seriously THAT much of a problem to you why not make at the very least ONE raven? just one. why? makes no sense to me. hunter seekers are actually pretty good against broods since they cant run away from them that easily. Yeah and terrans will totally tech raven energy and seeker missiles just for that ONE raven (which sets your army strength back immensely.) Suck on your big fat nerfstick, ohhh yeah ohh. LOL why would u tech raven energy and missles for one raven? bro im talking about for detection only u can make 1 raven. and if u want to MASS multiple ammounts of ravens (in other words fully dedicate to them) then im saying that hunter seekers are pretty good. I have seen a few players get a single raven out with their port before switching into medivac production/viking production...but then it usually gets fungaled and dies, lol. It's not like they don't try .
scan. cant fungal a scan
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On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals?
Ballistixz, you lost all credibility in this thread when you said that you can split vs fungal. If you are a zerg, you should know yourself how retarded it is to split vs fungal. It utterly, almost impossible to split vs fungal. How can you even compare baneling split and fungal split? The AOE is much bigger, can be cast twice, and instant.
Just make fungal a 90% slow -.-
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On November 12 2012 15:56 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? Ballistixz, you lost all credibility in this thread when you said that you can split vs fungal. If you are a zerg, you should know yourself how retarded it is to split vs fungal. It utterly, almost impossible to split vs fungal. How can you even compare baneling split and fungal split? The AOE is much bigger, can be cast twice, and instant. Just make fungal a 90% slow -.-
pre splitting ur marines to weaken fungal is retarded? you would rather clump them up? ok then. clearly uve never watched a zvz where players with less infestors split there roaches in order to do more damage to a player that has more infestors.
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On November 12 2012 15:35 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +I will end off with a question for you: You find fungal fun to watch? Seriously? Yes! that moment when terran player sends an army of clumped marines and they suddenly green and exploding to bloody shreds at the same time...delicious. anyway, what I'd like to see is increased EMP effect on biological units. It's also reasonable to decrease their hit points, mages are supposed to be softer. I don't see any need to nerf fungal or infested terran though. Zerg still requires a decent mage to control the battle but if they go with the EMP buff and hit point decrease, players won't like to mass too many of them.
I actually feel that they should also be slower too (along with reduced HP). Seeing infestors being caught out of position over and over again, but it is so hard to punish those mistakes because of their high speed, high HP, burrow capability, and fungal capability to escape. I'm fine with there being an escape abilities, but that has to come at the cost of movement speed and HP so that if they can still be punished for being controlled poorly.
On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals?
With banelings, you can reactively split. If you see banelings roll at you, you can split your units. With infestors, anytime you so much as move, you have to resplit your marines. Fungal is basically a range 9 baneling, there is zero reactive micro. Either you were split while moving or you just lost the game. With banelings, you can react, and that is exciting to see. If you get hit by banelings, that is your own fault. If you get hit with fungal...well.. there was almost no chance to stop that.
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On November 12 2012 15:56 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? Ballistixz, you lost all credibility in this thread when you said that you can split vs fungal. If you are a zerg, you should know yourself how retarded it is to split vs fungal. It utterly, almost impossible to split vs fungal. How can you even compare baneling split and fungal split? The AOE is much bigger, can be cast twice, and instant. Just make fungal a 90% slow -.-
Lol what? I can give you replays of kids on the master ladder presplitting ALL the time before I start to fungal.
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With banelings, you can reactively split. If you see banelings roll at you, you can split your units. With infestors, anytime you so much as move, you have to resplit your marines. Fungal is basically a range 9 baneling, there is zero reactive micro. Either you were split while moving or you just lost the game. With banelings, you can react, and that is exciting to see. If you get hit by banelings, that is your own fault. If you get hit with fungal...well.. there was almost no chance to stop that.
its done in zvz with roaches. infact i do it all the time. i dont understand why its so hard for terrans to do it. that makes no sense what so ever. you KNOW he has infestors. why the hell not split?
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On November 12 2012 15:57 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:56 SheaR619 wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? Ballistixz, you lost all credibility in this thread when you said that you can split vs fungal. If you are a zerg, you should know yourself how retarded it is to split vs fungal. It utterly, almost impossible to split vs fungal. How can you even compare baneling split and fungal split? The AOE is much bigger, can be cast twice, and instant. Just make fungal a 90% slow -.- pre splitting ur marines to weaken fungal is retarded? you would rather clump them up? ok then. clearly uve never watched a zvz where players with less infestors split there roaches in order to do more damage to a player that has more infestors.
well presplitting different, anyone can do that. I though you were regarding splitting in mid combat. Regarding the roach thing, rarely that makes a major difference. In most ZvZ, when it a roach infestor war, it all about finding the concave and then just fungaling the other person concave to death.
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On November 12 2012 15:45 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:44 zhurai wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? maybe because you can actually see the banelings come. one could argue you can see the infestors coming
fungal is instant cast, 9 range for dead center and a little more range if you consider its AOE area
banelings have to get a whole lot closer
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Mod, please rename "Rock" in title to Dustin Browder.
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On November 12 2012 15:57 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:56 SheaR619 wrote:On November 12 2012 15:42 Ballistixz wrote:
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals? Ballistixz, you lost all credibility in this thread when you said that you can split vs fungal. If you are a zerg, you should know yourself how retarded it is to split vs fungal. It utterly, almost impossible to split vs fungal. How can you even compare baneling split and fungal split? The AOE is much bigger, can be cast twice, and instant. Just make fungal a 90% slow -.- pre splitting ur marines to weaken fungal is retarded? you would rather clump them up? ok then. clearly uve never watched a zvz where players with less infestors split there roaches in order to do more damage to a player that has more infestors.
You can pre splitting marines when you're not moving around constantly. How the hell can terran moving to Zerg bases w/o knowing what's coming for them? Zerg knows where T is, but T can't because thanks god for the fucking creep spread. There're so many problem with splitting marines, yes you can split them, but no sometimes with the vision range of T is shorter than Zerg due to creep tumor ok?
And btw don't even compare Roaches with marines, roaches don't die instantly to baneling but marines do.
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lol I was thinking about the older pro gamer commenting on the infestor...and was like huh?
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This thread is turning into what I initially thought about the title : "Rock" is whining how imba "Paper" is while saying "Scissors" are in gd shape.
After all these months, I think it will be fun to see infestor go back to the stage of pre-TSL3, so that we can see how clueless the old zergs are.
In fact, zergs nowadays mainly use infestor as a deathball units which in theory is vulnerable to flanking, but the speedlings and creeps just prevent that in the current Meta game.
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EPT
