|
On November 12 2012 14:36 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 12:09 xAdra wrote:
To the zergs still defending infestors:
I really want to know. Do you actually find them fun to watch? Do you find some sick pleasure in seeing P/T units unable to move, taking heavy damage, and being raped by broodlords? Do you actually feel proud for your pros, marvelling at the skill they needed to cast that simple spell (taking up no more than 2, maybe 3 actions)? Do you find it cool when the zergs are completely outplayed for the whole game, yet can have a ball to move across the map and kill the opponent, without so much as repeatedly using an aoe stunning spell on already stunned units?
Honestly, I couldn't care less about racial distributions in tournaments, or ladder distributions (which actually matter even less). If Zerg games were fun to watch, I'd be okay. As it stands now, only Leenock is remotely "fun" to watch, and that's because his early game aggression is innovative and skill-full, as opposed to the other zergs who just turtle to infestor broodlord, then win with minimal micro while the other player is forced to have perfect play, or else die. Terran at least has a composition that can go head to head with infestor/bl, even if it takes MUCH more micro to use than the simple amove+fungal composition. Protoss has to rely on the coin flippy vortex, which relies on the zerg being dumb enough to not neural or fungal the slow as crap mothership, or the zerg messing up significantly by clumping all the units together.
Right now, infestors are neither cool, balanced, fair, interesting, fun to watch, or require skill to use. I would fully support nerfing them to the ground and buffing less powerful zerg units, such as hydralisks and ultralisks. do u find watching someone massing tanks and marines fun? do u find watching toss players massing a bunch of colos and A moving to win fun? do u find watching archon toilet fun? exactly let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. Nobody is saying you should play completely infestorless, just that they shouldn't be as overpowered as they are. Sheesh, the amount of over-reacting in this thread is ridiculous. A unit being nerfed doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore or that you can never build it again. It's like if blizzard released a unit that does 1,000 dps at range 30 with full map vision, then decided to nerf it to 50 dps at range 10 with a normal vision range. That's a massive nerf, but that unit is still very strong.
i dont think you understand the history of infestor nor how blizzard handles things. infestor is a unit that has been buffed and nerfed countless times already and each time the buff was either to huge that they had to nerf it or the nerf was to huge that they had to buff it again. if they nerf fungals again the unit will have no place. we already seen what happened to NP once it got its range nerfed. there is a reason to overreact, and that reason is in the numerous patch notes of the infestor.
|
On November 12 2012 14:40 Jimbo77 wrote:
what a stupid this db is.
Give a hydra speed upgrade at a hive and nerf infestor to death.
Million problems solved - playability, balance, fun-to-watch, creativity (you will have to start to think what unit to build, not just mass one that serves to everything!!!)
db is a simple noob.
chill bro.
This post isn't only coming from DB. I'm sure the development team all have the same idea, and things to say, but just chose to relay that information using DB's "Rock" account so people appreciate it more.
Nonetheless, whether the said statement is positive or negative to the community, it's definitely not only his opinions that we're seeing here..
|
On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2?
can u post something other than mindless one sentence babbling? you havent posted anything useful since u came into this thread other than "fungals are ruining SC2" you give no reason nor evidence to ur claims other than "LOL go watch tournaments bro"
|
On November 12 2012 14:44 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? Lol read my posts in this thread broseph. I edited and posted other things. What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? can u post something other than mindless one sentence babbling? you havent posted anything useful since u came into this thread other than "fungals are ruining SC2" you give no reason nor evidence to ur claims other than "LOL go watch tournaments bro"
I did, reread my posts and look at the edits. You are just too closeminded to realize that fungals are clearly ruining SC2. I think other parts of Zerg needs to be looked at after the infestors are nerfed.
|
On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies?
Asks for an alternative to infestors that is viable *NOW*
Misses the point completely.
I have no words to spare for this. No, actually I am of the opinion not only the infestor but the entire zerg race should be removed for heart of the swarm.
|
On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies?
You're so amazing man.
1/Protoss deathball doesn't get screw by infestors. rofl, then why are we seeing Protoss whining about infestor but not making deathball? Did you even watch Seed vs some Zerg last season where he made 15 carriers and the best Protoss deathball possible and still get fucked by 40 infestors? Why did we even have infestor this good? b/c Blizz previously buffed them so they can counter Deathball in PvZ.
2/ all types of harassment that you stated are just wrong on so many level man. They're incredibly easy to defend. I mean nydus? really dude? how often do u see terran or protoss get nydus in their main base after 10 mins mark?
3/tell that to Korean pros... with FG's range, it can easily see and catch medivac even before medivac can see and run away.
|
On November 12 2012 14:42 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:36 Whitewing wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 12:09 xAdra wrote:
To the zergs still defending infestors:
I really want to know. Do you actually find them fun to watch? Do you find some sick pleasure in seeing P/T units unable to move, taking heavy damage, and being raped by broodlords? Do you actually feel proud for your pros, marvelling at the skill they needed to cast that simple spell (taking up no more than 2, maybe 3 actions)? Do you find it cool when the zergs are completely outplayed for the whole game, yet can have a ball to move across the map and kill the opponent, without so much as repeatedly using an aoe stunning spell on already stunned units?
Honestly, I couldn't care less about racial distributions in tournaments, or ladder distributions (which actually matter even less). If Zerg games were fun to watch, I'd be okay. As it stands now, only Leenock is remotely "fun" to watch, and that's because his early game aggression is innovative and skill-full, as opposed to the other zergs who just turtle to infestor broodlord, then win with minimal micro while the other player is forced to have perfect play, or else die. Terran at least has a composition that can go head to head with infestor/bl, even if it takes MUCH more micro to use than the simple amove+fungal composition. Protoss has to rely on the coin flippy vortex, which relies on the zerg being dumb enough to not neural or fungal the slow as crap mothership, or the zerg messing up significantly by clumping all the units together.
Right now, infestors are neither cool, balanced, fair, interesting, fun to watch, or require skill to use. I would fully support nerfing them to the ground and buffing less powerful zerg units, such as hydralisks and ultralisks. do u find watching someone massing tanks and marines fun? do u find watching toss players massing a bunch of colos and A moving to win fun? do u find watching archon toilet fun? exactly let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. Nobody is saying you should play completely infestorless, just that they shouldn't be as overpowered as they are. Sheesh, the amount of over-reacting in this thread is ridiculous. A unit being nerfed doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore or that you can never build it again. It's like if blizzard released a unit that does 1,000 dps at range 30 with full map vision, then decided to nerf it to 50 dps at range 10 with a normal vision range. That's a massive nerf, but that unit is still very strong. i dont think you understand the history of infestor nor how blizzard handles things. infestor is a unit that has been buffed and nerfed countless times already and each time the buff was either to huge that they had to nerf it or the nerf was to huge that they had to buff it again. if they nerf fungals again the unit will have no place. we already seen what happened to NP once it got its range nerfed. there is a reason to overreact, and that reason is in the numerous patch notes of the infestor.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestor
3 changes after release of WoL.
WoL release was 2 years ago.
Countless times.
|
On November 12 2012 02:18 cydial wrote:
So hypocritical.
Why isn't storm a lighting bolt first?
|
On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? 1. The Protoss deathball dies to fungals+broods 100% of the time if there isn't a lucky vortex 2. Ye, nerf infestors and buff hydras 3. Except, infestors are better at harassing than basically all of those 4. Yes, 2 infestors is good enough to stop any harass because creep spread+overlords show everything, and infested terran+fungal stops everything. 5. This is the thing that is probably confusing Blizzard right now. Players like DRG and Leenock can still rape with muta ling bling, but other zergs are too busy loling their way to victory with infestors.
seems like u took my advice and edited your post, wise move even though your still completly wrong.
1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how.
2. hydras are buffed in HoTs. nothing has changed, there still useless.
3. lol. no there not. mutas are probally the best form of harassment zerg has. baneling drops with +2 atk has the potential to wipe an entire workerline from just 1 overlords worth. hell ive done it with just 2 banelings before.
4. that statement was just stupid. it doesnt stop everything because u can drop at multiple bases. overlord spread can be stoped with just 1 or 2 vikings. also the more infestors u have defending ur bases the less of them u have out on the field. the point of harassing is to keep doing it. 1 -2 infestors will NOT stop multiple drop harrase attempts.
5. what makes winning with infestors any different from winning with mutas? that makes no sense.
|
On November 12 2012 14:53 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:42 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:36 Whitewing wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 12:09 xAdra wrote:
To the zergs still defending infestors:
I really want to know. Do you actually find them fun to watch? Do you find some sick pleasure in seeing P/T units unable to move, taking heavy damage, and being raped by broodlords? Do you actually feel proud for your pros, marvelling at the skill they needed to cast that simple spell (taking up no more than 2, maybe 3 actions)? Do you find it cool when the zergs are completely outplayed for the whole game, yet can have a ball to move across the map and kill the opponent, without so much as repeatedly using an aoe stunning spell on already stunned units?
Honestly, I couldn't care less about racial distributions in tournaments, or ladder distributions (which actually matter even less). If Zerg games were fun to watch, I'd be okay. As it stands now, only Leenock is remotely "fun" to watch, and that's because his early game aggression is innovative and skill-full, as opposed to the other zergs who just turtle to infestor broodlord, then win with minimal micro while the other player is forced to have perfect play, or else die. Terran at least has a composition that can go head to head with infestor/bl, even if it takes MUCH more micro to use than the simple amove+fungal composition. Protoss has to rely on the coin flippy vortex, which relies on the zerg being dumb enough to not neural or fungal the slow as crap mothership, or the zerg messing up significantly by clumping all the units together.
Right now, infestors are neither cool, balanced, fair, interesting, fun to watch, or require skill to use. I would fully support nerfing them to the ground and buffing less powerful zerg units, such as hydralisks and ultralisks. do u find watching someone massing tanks and marines fun? do u find watching toss players massing a bunch of colos and A moving to win fun? do u find watching archon toilet fun? exactly let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. Nobody is saying you should play completely infestorless, just that they shouldn't be as overpowered as they are. Sheesh, the amount of over-reacting in this thread is ridiculous. A unit being nerfed doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore or that you can never build it again. It's like if blizzard released a unit that does 1,000 dps at range 30 with full map vision, then decided to nerf it to 50 dps at range 10 with a normal vision range. That's a massive nerf, but that unit is still very strong. i dont think you understand the history of infestor nor how blizzard handles things. infestor is a unit that has been buffed and nerfed countless times already and each time the buff was either to huge that they had to nerf it or the nerf was to huge that they had to buff it again. if they nerf fungals again the unit will have no place. we already seen what happened to NP once it got its range nerfed. there is a reason to overreact, and that reason is in the numerous patch notes of the infestor. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestor3 changes after release of WoL. WoL release was 2 years ago. Countless times.
the ammount of biase in this thread is amazing. you are just going to ignore all of the beta patches as well? they do matter to the overall existance of the infestor.
|
On November 12 2012 14:56 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? 1. The Protoss deathball dies to fungals+broods 100% of the time if there isn't a lucky vortex 2. Ye, nerf infestors and buff hydras 3. Except, infestors are better at harassing than basically all of those 4. Yes, 2 infestors is good enough to stop any harass because creep spread+overlords show everything, and infested terran+fungal stops everything. 5. This is the thing that is probably confusing Blizzard right now. Players like DRG and Leenock can still rape with muta ling bling, but other zergs are too busy loling their way to victory with infestors. seems like u took my advice and edited your post, wise move even though your still completly wrong. 1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how.
If Protoss would always win against zerg without the mothership, why do they even build it?
If it is the only thing enabling Zerg to win against Protoss, why would Protoss ever build the tool to their own destruction?
On November 12 2012 15:00 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:53 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:42 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:36 Whitewing wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 12:09 xAdra wrote:
To the zergs still defending infestors:
I really want to know. Do you actually find them fun to watch? Do you find some sick pleasure in seeing P/T units unable to move, taking heavy damage, and being raped by broodlords? Do you actually feel proud for your pros, marvelling at the skill they needed to cast that simple spell (taking up no more than 2, maybe 3 actions)? Do you find it cool when the zergs are completely outplayed for the whole game, yet can have a ball to move across the map and kill the opponent, without so much as repeatedly using an aoe stunning spell on already stunned units?
Honestly, I couldn't care less about racial distributions in tournaments, or ladder distributions (which actually matter even less). If Zerg games were fun to watch, I'd be okay. As it stands now, only Leenock is remotely "fun" to watch, and that's because his early game aggression is innovative and skill-full, as opposed to the other zergs who just turtle to infestor broodlord, then win with minimal micro while the other player is forced to have perfect play, or else die. Terran at least has a composition that can go head to head with infestor/bl, even if it takes MUCH more micro to use than the simple amove+fungal composition. Protoss has to rely on the coin flippy vortex, which relies on the zerg being dumb enough to not neural or fungal the slow as crap mothership, or the zerg messing up significantly by clumping all the units together.
Right now, infestors are neither cool, balanced, fair, interesting, fun to watch, or require skill to use. I would fully support nerfing them to the ground and buffing less powerful zerg units, such as hydralisks and ultralisks. do u find watching someone massing tanks and marines fun? do u find watching toss players massing a bunch of colos and A moving to win fun? do u find watching archon toilet fun? exactly let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. Nobody is saying you should play completely infestorless, just that they shouldn't be as overpowered as they are. Sheesh, the amount of over-reacting in this thread is ridiculous. A unit being nerfed doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore or that you can never build it again. It's like if blizzard released a unit that does 1,000 dps at range 30 with full map vision, then decided to nerf it to 50 dps at range 10 with a normal vision range. That's a massive nerf, but that unit is still very strong. i dont think you understand the history of infestor nor how blizzard handles things. infestor is a unit that has been buffed and nerfed countless times already and each time the buff was either to huge that they had to nerf it or the nerf was to huge that they had to buff it again. if they nerf fungals again the unit will have no place. we already seen what happened to NP once it got its range nerfed. there is a reason to overreact, and that reason is in the numerous patch notes of the infestor. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestor3 changes after release of WoL. WoL release was 2 years ago. Countless times. the ammount of biase in this thread is amazing. you are just going to ignore all of the beta patches as well? they do matter to the overall existance of the infestor.
Yes I am.
Because the SC2 Beta had like 3 tournaments.
Also because the game has been out for 2.5 years. The beta has lasted for 4 months.
Nobody studies the history of the infestor during the beta when trying to use them in the game.
|
On November 12 2012 15:01 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:56 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? 1. The Protoss deathball dies to fungals+broods 100% of the time if there isn't a lucky vortex 2. Ye, nerf infestors and buff hydras 3. Except, infestors are better at harassing than basically all of those 4. Yes, 2 infestors is good enough to stop any harass because creep spread+overlords show everything, and infested terran+fungal stops everything. 5. This is the thing that is probably confusing Blizzard right now. Players like DRG and Leenock can still rape with muta ling bling, but other zergs are too busy loling their way to victory with infestors. seems like u took my advice and edited your post, wise move even though your still completly wrong. 1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how. If Protoss would always win against zerg without the mothership, why do they even build it? If it is the only thing enabling Zerg to win against Protoss, why would Protoss ever build the tool to their own destruction?
the side of that story goes both ways you know. the entire pvz match up is messed up. they need vortex in order to counter act the broodlords where as zerg needs infestors to try and control vortex. if u subtract infestors from the zergs late game unit comp they cant do much of anything. the broods will EASILY get sniped off by void rays and other AA units.
and yes the same thing can be said for toss. if u subtract Mship then infestor brood will easily pick apart protoss. but do you know what the interesting part about all of this is? what happens with BOTH units are subtracted? thats why i said earlier that this game is flawed on so many levels.
|
On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:
let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. That can be reversed at Zerg easily.
Let me put it like this to all of you infestor lovers so you can understand how playing against Zerg works. Play a few games as Terran or Protoss against a serious Zerg who makes mass infestors/broodlords. Once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly disgusting ways you have lost because purely because you couldn't fight back.
1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how.
This is just patently wrong. Many games are lost after a vortex is cast by the Protoss. I must question exactly what level you are because even Diamond Zergs are starting to spread their broodlords in preparation for vortex now and that substantially weakens vortex.
the ammount of biase in this thread is amazing.
Did you ever think it might be you and not everyone else in the thread?
|
On November 12 2012 14:56 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:40 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:38 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:31 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:14 TimENT wrote:
DB, whatever "data" you get, please ignore it. Watch the last 50 tournaments AND read the comments. Fungals are ruining SC2. please stop posting BS. fungals are not ruining SC2. Just to chime in: What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. For defense against midgame armies, infestor. It is evident that something else needs to be buffed when the infestor isn´t the "one size fits all" unit anymore. You wouldn´t say the marine are awesome and balanced because right now terran rely on its strength, would you? What composition doesn´t get totally screwed over by fungals? thats a easy one. the protoss death ball. For anti air, you don´t make hydras, you make infestor. no shit, hydras are the worse unit in the entire game right now. and it just so happens that it is our only form of ground to air AA unit aside from infestors. For harass, you burrow infestors into the enemy base. zergs are capable of many types of harassment. drops, mutas, nydus, baneling run bys, ling run bys, etc. why do u just solo out infestor as the only form of harassment? For base defense, keep 1-2 infestors at home. 1-2 infestors is not going to defend an entire base unless u are stupid with ur medivacs and dont pay attention when u are dropping. that means not shift clicking + forget medivacs into a base. -_- For defense against midgame armies, infestor. lets pretend infestors dont exist. what are zergs suppose to make against to combat death ball armies or marine+marauder+tank armies? Do you play/watch SC2? 1. The Protoss deathball dies to fungals+broods 100% of the time if there isn't a lucky vortex 2. Ye, nerf infestors and buff hydras 3. Except, infestors are better at harassing than basically all of those 4. Yes, 2 infestors is good enough to stop any harass because creep spread+overlords show everything, and infested terran+fungal stops everything. 5. This is the thing that is probably confusing Blizzard right now. Players like DRG and Leenock can still rape with muta ling bling, but other zergs are too busy loling their way to victory with infestors. seems like u took my advice and edited your post, wise move even though your still completly wrong. 1 protoss doesnt die to fungals alone..... they die to vortex. do you understand? fungals dont do anything to a protoss death ball once it has Mship. the main reason u make infestors in the late game against toss is to try and get a NP off on the Mship. once that happens u use the mship to waste all of the vortex energy on the Mship while ur broodlords do the rest of the work. fungals alone wont do that. if the Mship still has energy to vortex even once u really dont have a chance of winning unless the toss messes up some how. 2. hydras are buffed in HoTs. nothing has changed, there still useless. 3. lol. no there not. mutas are probally the best form of harassment zerg has. baneling drops with +2 atk has the potential to wipe an entire workerline from just 1 overlords worth. hell ive done it with just 2 banelings before. 4. that statement was just stupid. it doesnt stop everything because u can drop at multiple bases. overlord spread can be stoped with just 1 or 2 vikings. also the more infestors u have defending ur bases the less of them u have out on the field. the point of harassing is to keep doing it. 1 -2 infestors will NOT stop multiple drop harrase attempts. 5. what makes winning with infestors any different from winning with mutas? that makes no sense.
I can't believe anyone is still dense/biased enough to not see the problem here.
1. Infestors serve every conceivable role against protoss: anti-air, dps, defence, and broodlord support. Not just neuralling mothership. Also, I find it funny that a zerg is saying "unless the toss messes up somehow". Pros and normal players alike have all expressed their frustration at how a single missed moment against zerg results in your loss. Do you have some trouble using chain fungals or anything? Last I checked it roots everything to the ground, can stack, and is supported by broodlords which fire a wall of living units that also deal dps.
2. We are saying hydras can be buffed to compensate for anti air. Just to make it so that the infestor does not fill every single niche.
3. So what? So you prove that the rest of the zerg units are not, in fact, "garbage without infestors"? Thanks.
4. Do you have some problem making static D?
5. Muta-ling-bling takes skill to use. It is impressive to watch. It may be more fun to play (not sure, I don't play zerg, but how is a spell that roots nonstop make it more fun for the player?)
If you really insist on being like that, so be it. Just make sure to get ready your nerf-helmet for the inevitable nerf-bat.
I will end off with a question for you: You find fungal fun to watch? Seriously?
|
On November 12 2012 14:14 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:12 DidYuhim wrote:
So, nothing to do in StarCraft 2 until BWC finishes.
Thanks, DB. It's only 5 days.
The world ends next month though. They have a right to be upset.
|
On November 12 2012 15:00 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:53 Mataza wrote:On November 12 2012 14:42 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 14:36 Whitewing wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Ballistixz wrote:On November 12 2012 12:09 xAdra wrote:
To the zergs still defending infestors:
I really want to know. Do you actually find them fun to watch? Do you find some sick pleasure in seeing P/T units unable to move, taking heavy damage, and being raped by broodlords? Do you actually feel proud for your pros, marvelling at the skill they needed to cast that simple spell (taking up no more than 2, maybe 3 actions)? Do you find it cool when the zergs are completely outplayed for the whole game, yet can have a ball to move across the map and kill the opponent, without so much as repeatedly using an aoe stunning spell on already stunned units?
Honestly, I couldn't care less about racial distributions in tournaments, or ladder distributions (which actually matter even less). If Zerg games were fun to watch, I'd be okay. As it stands now, only Leenock is remotely "fun" to watch, and that's because his early game aggression is innovative and skill-full, as opposed to the other zergs who just turtle to infestor broodlord, then win with minimal micro while the other player is forced to have perfect play, or else die. Terran at least has a composition that can go head to head with infestor/bl, even if it takes MUCH more micro to use than the simple amove+fungal composition. Protoss has to rely on the coin flippy vortex, which relies on the zerg being dumb enough to not neural or fungal the slow as crap mothership, or the zerg messing up significantly by clumping all the units together.
Right now, infestors are neither cool, balanced, fair, interesting, fun to watch, or require skill to use. I would fully support nerfing them to the ground and buffing less powerful zerg units, such as hydralisks and ultralisks. do u find watching someone massing tanks and marines fun? do u find watching toss players massing a bunch of colos and A moving to win fun? do u find watching archon toilet fun? exactly let me put it like this to all of u infestor haters so u can understand how the zerg race works. play a few games as zerg against a serious protoss or terran player WITHOUT making a single infestor. once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly digusting ways u have lost the game purely because u didnt make infestors. Nobody is saying you should play completely infestorless, just that they shouldn't be as overpowered as they are. Sheesh, the amount of over-reacting in this thread is ridiculous. A unit being nerfed doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore or that you can never build it again. It's like if blizzard released a unit that does 1,000 dps at range 30 with full map vision, then decided to nerf it to 50 dps at range 10 with a normal vision range. That's a massive nerf, but that unit is still very strong. i dont think you understand the history of infestor nor how blizzard handles things. infestor is a unit that has been buffed and nerfed countless times already and each time the buff was either to huge that they had to nerf it or the nerf was to huge that they had to buff it again. if they nerf fungals again the unit will have no place. we already seen what happened to NP once it got its range nerfed. there is a reason to overreact, and that reason is in the numerous patch notes of the infestor. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestor3 changes after release of WoL. WoL release was 2 years ago. Countless times. the ammount of biase in this thread is amazing. you are just going to ignore all of the beta patches as well? they do matter to the overall existance of the infestor.
Beta was a different game than what we have now. It's completely pointless to talk about beta patches.
You're may be the most biased person here.
|
That can be reversed at Zerg easily.
Let me put it like this to all of you infestor lovers so you can understand how playing against Zerg works. Play a few games as Terran or Protoss against a serious Zerg who makes mass infestors/broodlords. Once you do that come back and tell me all of the stupid and utterly disgusting ways you have lost because purely because you couldn't fight back.
i have. as terran ive won games by massing ravens and vikings. pretty good combination with Hunter seekers. ive also done it with toss. won games by tech switching to mass air.
This is just patently wrong. Many games are lost after a vortex is cast by the Protoss. I must question exactly what level you are because even Diamond Zergs are starting to spread their broodlords in preparation for vortex now and that substantially weakens vortex.
what about it is wrong? even if you split the broodlors u will still hit a good clump and u can pick apart the rest. especially if u have 2 vortexes available. the AoE radius of vortex is so huge that u will need to split ur broods pretty far apart from each other. and i also dont see ur point about zergs winning even after vortex is cast. ive seen toss win numerous games despite infestors+broodlords being this god tier unit composition.
1. Infestors serve every conceivable role against protoss: anti-air, dps, defence, and broodlord support. Not just neuralling mothership. Also, I find it funny that a zerg is saying "unless the toss messes up somehow". Pros and normal players alike have all expressed their frustration at how a single missed moment against zerg results in your loss. Do you have some trouble using chain fungals or anything? Last I checked it roots everything to the ground, can stack, and is supported by broodlords which fire a wall of living units that also deal dps.
2. We are saying hydras can be buffed to compensate for anti air. Just to make it so that the infestor does not fill every single niche.
3. So what? So you prove that the rest of the zerg units are not, in fact, "garbage without infestors"? Thanks.
4. Do you have some problem making static D?
5. Muta-ling-bling takes skill to use. It is impressive to watch. It may be more fun to play (not sure, I don't play zerg, but how is a spell that roots nonstop make it more fun for the player?)
If you really insist on being like that, so be it. Just make sure to get ready your nerf-helmet for the inevitable nerf-bat.
I will end off with a question for you: You find fungal fun to watch? Seriously?
1. the fact that they do serve as all of those things means something went wrong somewhere in the races design. our only other form of ground to air unit is hydras and queens. and ur not going to see queens take down a fleet of voids/carriers anytime soon.
2. like i said, they are buffed in HoTs. u will have to buff hydras significantly more to make up for it. a simple speed buff is not enough. id be completly happy if they removed infested terrans entirely and buffed hydras by a significant ammount to make up for it, but i dont see it happening. if it does then great. all i am saying is that there is a reason infestors have that roll right now. read above if u still need to know why.
3. um no. im saying that infestors are not the absolute best form of harassment we have. its simply one of the few forms of harassment we have.
4. depends on the situation. static defense can also be avoided by just micring ur damn medivacs instead of blindly shift clicking into a base...
5. idk, ask protoss users that use force fields, colo, and vortex. both are equally uninteresting.
as for your final question, no i dont find fungals fun to watch. but i dont find force fields fun to watch either. nor do i find colo fun to watch.
Beta was a different game than what we have now. It's completely pointless to talk about beta patches
beta is what made the game we have now. i dont understand how you can completly ignore it as irelevant. the patches in beta were very significant patches. like the roach supply nerf for example that transfered over to release and still exists to this day. you cant just ignore those patches as if they never happened.... srsly...
|
I will end off with a question for you: You find fungal fun to watch? Seriously?
Yes! that moment when terran player sends an army of clumped marines and they suddenly green and exploding to bloody shreds at the same time...delicious.
anyway, what I'd like to see is increased EMP effect on biological units. It's also reasonable to decrease their hit points, mages are supposed to be softer. I don't see any need to nerf fungal or infested terran though. Zerg still requires a decent mage to control the battle but if they go with the EMP buff and hit point decrease, players won't like to mass too many of them.
|
On November 12 2012 02:40 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 02:38 floor exercise wrote:
They are just going to opt for the least volatile change that will bring win percents closer together. They aren't gonna change the game or the way it's played, which is my real problem with Blizzard and HotS. They are so concerned with balancing the game they don't realize how boring the game itself has become Ya basically the biggest issue is if they change it too much Zerg will lose every fucking game all of a sudden its back to roach hydra every PvZ so we can get rofl stomped by ffs
Why does patches like this get the unit out of the metagame and soon it appears again?
Making fungal projectile is not unbalanced it's micro and decision oriented spell then, like storm and EMP you can't just go and cast it X place as knowing you will hit them. Now you have to be precise with the spell like with storm and EMP, so why should fungal be much easier to use than the others when it clearly has more spells in one that the others.
Storm:4
-AoE damage spell
-insta, but avoidable.
-Can hit burrowed and cloacking units
-You can cast it to the same area but most likely it wont hit any units unless its an all out battle
EMP:5
-AoE energy disabler
-AoE protoss shield disabler
-Reveals cloacking and burrowed units (unit can move freely)
-You can cast it to the same area but most likely it wont hit any units unless its an all out battle
-projectile and avoidable.
Fungal Growth:5
-AoE damage spell
-AoE entangling roots
-Reveals cloacking and burrowed units (locks them also)
-Can be casted multiple times to the same area and this just makes it even more powerful
-insta, but not avoidable.
So I ask the community why should one spell be more efficient than the others?
Answer is: There shouldn't be spell like that.
|
FYI, if you split your units you can significantly weaken the ammount of damage fungal does to ur army. if u clump marines together, its ur fault if u lose 20-30 of them to fungals. you split against banelings so why not fungals?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
