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On November 12 2012 06:01 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 05:39 Trumpstyle wrote:On November 12 2012 05:36 NightOfTheDead wrote:On November 12 2012 05:32 Trumpstyle wrote:
Hmm took them several months to realize that infestors are ridiculous.
My suggestion on nerfing fungal growth is to make it affect maximum up to 4 targets so it is not so strong against air or completely remove the root affect. I don't think making it a snare or projectile will fix infestor/broodlord combo as protoss still need to rely on blinking into the army to kill the broodlords or make voidrays and making it a snare or projectile won't solve it in my opinion. One fungal on 4 marines? wow best idea ever. Zerg has banelings. Don't need fungal to counter marines. Except that fungal had to be buffed in the first place because banelings were so ineffective.
On a lot of the older maps.
Keep in mind the map pool that existed when the Infestor change happened. We were still rocking Xel'Naga Caverns for crying out loud.
You put the old infestors on the new maps, and the balance is much better than what existed on the old craptastic season 1-3 ladder map pool.
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On November 12 2012 06:01 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 05:58 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Aside from some kind of adjustment to FG, they need to completely drop ITs or rethink it altogether. Being able to spawn an entire army of upgraded high dps units, be it for nexus sniping or a defensive wall for the main deathball, is too absurd. And boring. I wish at the very least that they cost more energy and didn't get attack upgrades They got more HP and do more DPS than their "counter-parts", the marines too.
Marines, however, don't shoot themselves in the head.
(Random pointless out-of-context unit comparisons ftw.)
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I really liked some of their proposed changes that they would look at, which will force the infestor to be controlled better. I think that is the type of nerfs that should be done, where units are weakened by requiring more skill to control or gives the opponent a chance to punish sloppy control. For example, a slower movement speed will allow terran/protoss to punish over commitment from infestors. It is always painful seeing a huge blunder from the zerg to not be able to be punished because of the high speed of infestors. Lower HP will require better infestor control during engagements because that one tank blast or collosi swipe will do so much more damage.
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On November 12 2012 06:02 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 06:01 Sabu113 wrote:On November 12 2012 05:39 Trumpstyle wrote:On November 12 2012 05:36 NightOfTheDead wrote:On November 12 2012 05:32 Trumpstyle wrote:
Hmm took them several months to realize that infestors are ridiculous.
My suggestion on nerfing fungal growth is to make it affect maximum up to 4 targets so it is not so strong against air or completely remove the root affect. I don't think making it a snare or projectile will fix infestor/broodlord combo as protoss still need to rely on blinking into the army to kill the broodlords or make voidrays and making it a snare or projectile won't solve it in my opinion. One fungal on 4 marines? wow best idea ever. Zerg has banelings. Don't need fungal to counter marines. Except that fungal had to be buffed in the first place because banelings were so ineffective. On a lot of the older maps. Keep in mind the map pool that existed when the Infestor change happened. We were still rocking Xel'Naga Caverns for crying out loud. You put the old infestors on the new maps, and the balance is much better than what existed on the old craptastic season 1-3 ladder map pool.
We had shakuras. There were plenty of games where zerg would move banelings and terran would just split to all hell and zerg would just bleed gas. The TvZ winrates don't lie. There was a problem as there was no way to overcome splitting or no solid guaranteed dps option. Lurkers would provide that guaranteed dps/ hold ground well. This is in the same way that collosi offer a lot more solidity to a toss army than disposable templar. There has to be a means of guaranteed dps against super fast marine balls.
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On November 12 2012 02:18 Glioburd wrote:
Oh I thought it was TheRock[3.33] haha.
Agreed totally misleading title, I was like the Rock?! Omg no way. Then disappointment set in.
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Infestors are imba. Look at Stephano vs Ganzi game 2.
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It took me way longer than it should have to realize that the thread title was referring to neither the Michael Bay film nor the Team Fortress Classic map.On November 12 2012 05:58 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 05:47 xShoeicide wrote:
Good decision Rock aka Dustin.
Makes total sense to wait until after the WCS otherwise all the Zergs there would have to re learn &/or re adjust when I'm sure they have been practicing and preparing a lot.
Great to see developers talking to the community. Thanks very much.
To the haters, get a grip, relax, be patient. Infestors haven't been changed for a long time. If you are such geniuses & Blizzard are such "morrons" why wasn't everyone complaining about this a year ago? Because the metagame changes and no one can foresee every problem. The game will evolve. Remember "broken" mutas in PvZ? Nothing ever patched to fix that. Players just learned how to counter/defend it. 2xCannon + 1-2xHT's. Mothership in PvZ? That took a year before people stopped laughing when a pro built a mothership. Yea because the Phoenix range change never happened.
Phoenix range did nothing to change muta play.
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On November 12 2012 06:12 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 02:18 Glioburd wrote:
Oh I thought it was TheRock[3.33] haha. Agreed totally misleading title, I was like the Rock?! Omg no way. Then disappointment set in.
Lol sorry. Well not really misleading because "Rock" really did post that new thread. Though, at least if you're not a Zerg player, then it's still good news.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Mutas were never broken.
The only thing in questionable balance was the strengh of sudden sharp tech switches at various timings.
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On November 12 2012 06:18 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 06:12 Zooper31 wrote:On November 12 2012 02:18 Glioburd wrote:
Oh I thought it was TheRock[3.33] haha. Agreed totally misleading title, I was like the Rock?! Omg no way. Then disappointment set in. Lol sorry. Well not really misleading because "Rock" really did post that new thread. Though, at least if you're not a Zerg player, then it's still good news.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Rock
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On November 12 2012 06:17 chadissilent wrote:
Infestors are imba. Look at Stephano vs Ganzi game 2.
Nah what you're meaning to say is that zerg stands no chance without infestors
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On November 12 2012 05:58 HinagikUx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 05:47 xShoeicide wrote:
Good decision Rock aka Dustin.
Makes total sense to wait until after the WCS otherwise all the Zergs there would have to re learn &/or re adjust when I'm sure they have been practicing and preparing a lot.
Great to see developers talking to the community. Thanks very much.
To the haters, get a grip, relax, be patient. Infestors haven't been changed for a long time. If you are such geniuses & Blizzard are such "morrons" why wasn't everyone complaining about this a year ago? Because the metagame changes and no one can foresee every problem. The game will evolve. Remember "broken" mutas in PvZ? Nothing ever patched to fix that. Players just learned how to counter/defend it. 2xCannon + 1-2xHT's. Mothership in PvZ? That took a year before people stopped laughing when a pro built a mothership. mutas are still completely overpowered on alot of the older maps. The only reason it went out of style was because people figured out how much more broken inf/ BL is. Why play a unit comp that takes unit control when u can just go inf BL which is the safest and strongest 200/200 max in the game?
Actually, part of the muta 'fix' was the threat of phoenix range. it means that if you overinvest into mutas it's possible to get a much smaller number of phoenix with range and tear them apart. Even though most people don't get the range upgrade etc, the fact that they can makes muta play in ZvP feel less safe.
It's the same as opening phoenix vs zerg. It's ok until they get infestors, then the whole thing is busted. So 4 or 5 phoenix MAX . Otherwise I'd love to go 9 to 12 phoenix harassing the whole game into colossus stalker. That'd be sick.
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On November 12 2012 05:27 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 03:26 rd wrote:On November 12 2012 03:16 Melaine wrote:On November 12 2012 03:13 rd wrote:On November 12 2012 03:07 Melaine wrote:On November 12 2012 03:00 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 12 2012 02:41 Melaine wrote:
Fungle has been nerfed several times over the years......I don't understand the fuss.....Terran+protoss had their flavor of the month op, terran was op for 2 years and we had only Terran Gsl's, zerg has few months of great results......and people cry like mad???
This is the only Gsl season code s out of years and many seasons that we finnaly have alot of zergs in the group....and its not because of infestor.....infestors were the same as they were last year and zergs were losing.....only change was the Korean Zergs got better........you guys act like they did a major buff on infestors and all the sudden they are op.
Such silly things people choose to cry about just because their race is losing. I'm surprised Team Liquid puts up with the mass infestor posts and does not start deleting most of them. Why can't people just not cry, and just learn to get better in the game and have fun?? The Korean Pros get better and overcome anything because they do not cry and moan about things that are not even that OP.
..They should let infestor broodlord maintain its current state because another race was imba for a longer time? That's like letting black people enslave white people for a few years to make up for slavery in the US. You should try to reach a balance, not just periodically let one race be imba imba to make up for other balance mistakes. Also almost every code a interview had the players complaining about balance, even Nestea. Sometimes I think people like you just want to cry about anything they can. Infestors have not been buffed to all the sudden make them "op" People who are not pros, watch the GSL and see a certain thing win, then crawl back to the forums and state its "oP"....when the real fact is, it has not effect on people below gm, or even people in GM, because they lose due to their own skill lvl not a unit. Zergs were losing often and least represented in the GSL last year......infestor was the same back then, as it is now.........mmm what can it be??? o ya, Pros get better and the skill cap increases, they learned to use a certain unit combo well, and that makes it op??? come on now. Yeah. sometimes I think people do like to cry about anything they can. Infestor was buffed, as fungal now has way more dps -- enough to rip apart marines. The old fungal never did that. And just because players got better, doesn't mean anything can't not be imbalanced. The fact was, it could have been imbalanced the entire time until players learned how to use it correctly. Come on now. Stop trolling. or if you are srsr, did you just start playing sc2? infestors have never been buffed, I'm not sure what game u are playing.....the last balance of infestor nerfed the fungal dmg and the range of NP....Bad troll is Bad http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.1.2http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.3.0http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.4.0http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.4.2http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.4.3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LWcdL.png) But the real kicker, the change that wasn't reverted on patch 1.4 was the reduction in Fungal Growth's duration. effectively increasing it's DPS by applying it's damage twice as fast.1.0 fungal, 36 dmg over 8s: 4.5 dps 1.4 fungal, 30 dmg over 4s: 7.5 dpsNah, the infestor was never touched, and the account made 10 days ago with 22 posts calls me a troll. That is wrong, in patch 1.40 it was nerfed, in 1.3, the duration was halved, then it was 36 dmg normally and +30% vs armored,which is total of 46 dmg, not it's 40 vs armored and 30 normal, so it was nerfed in 1.4) So last change to infestor nerfed it's dmg, the one that buffed the dmg was 1.3 which is one and a half year ago......
You've taken my post out of context. The poster I quoted was arguing that fungal wasn't buffed from it's release state (and actually went on record stating it was never buffed at all). They buffed it's dps and gave it the property of dealing damage to armored. Not only does it deal more damage to armored in 1.4 as opposed to 1.3, but they left the reduced snare time intact. It deals almost two times the damage per second now -- regardless of the damage nerf in 1.4. My post is wholly and entirely, factual.
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On November 12 2012 06:29 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 06:17 chadissilent wrote:
Infestors are imba. Look at Stephano vs Ganzi game 2. Nah what you're meaning to say is that zerg stands no chance without infestors
Which we can totally see by the 0% winrate zerg had before the infestor became standard, right?
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On November 12 2012 06:29 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 06:18 trinxified wrote:On November 12 2012 06:12 Zooper31 wrote:On November 12 2012 02:18 Glioburd wrote:
Oh I thought it was TheRock[3.33] haha. Agreed totally misleading title, I was like the Rock?! Omg no way. Then disappointment set in. Lol sorry. Well not really misleading because "Rock" really did post that new thread. Though, at least if you're not a Zerg player, then it's still good news. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Rock
Wow i like that he had way more hair back then.
OT: 3 food and we would fix alot. Well we will see and wait i supose no other choice.
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Protoss is probably going to get screwed over because of WCS. Just look at the Protoss guys coming from Korea:
Creator
Hero
Hero
Rain
Parting
Those guys are likely to roll over everyone else regardless of balance and that will make Blizzard revert whatever change they were considering for infestors and decide to nerf wonwonwon instead.
Terran might be more "lucky" due to the absence of mvp "the nerfhammer".
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On November 12 2012 06:50 Sein wrote:
Protoss is probably going to get screwed over because of WCS. Just look at the Protoss guys coming from Korea:
Creator
Hero
Hero
Rain
Parting
Those guys are likely to roll over everyone else regardless of balance and that will make Blizzard revert whatever change they were considering for infestors and decide to nerf wonwonwon instead.
Terran might be more "lucky" due to the absence of mvp "the nerfhammer".
Immortals and/or sentries will be nerfed.
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On November 12 2012 06:53 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 06:50 Sein wrote:
Protoss is probably going to get screwed over because of WCS. Just look at the Protoss guys coming from Korea:
Creator
Hero
Hero
Rain
Parting
Those guys are likely to roll over everyone else regardless of balance and that will make Blizzard revert whatever change they were considering for infestors and decide to nerf wonwonwon instead.
Terran might be more "lucky" due to the absence of mvp "the nerfhammer". Immortals and/or sentries will be nerfed.
ha now that sounds more like blizzard, nerf one of the few ways to actually beat a zerg or randomly buff a unit which doesnt need it
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I wouldn't mind if they change it back to projectile, I don't think it got a fair try and it's more exciting than instant lock.
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On November 12 2012 07:03 nam nam wrote:
I wouldn't mind if they change it back to projectile, I don't think it got a fair try and it's more exciting than instant lock.
Not to mention it looks cooler and actually makes sense lore-wise.
Imagine watching a game where multiple of those green lines stream across the screen.
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EPT
