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On November 11 2012 00:00 Yrr wrote:
Something I dont understand.
In PvT if Protoss builds HT's Terran answers asap with ghosts. But in ZvT I never see ghosts when Zerg builds infestors. Gas doesnt seem to be the problem. Why?
EMP doesnt cover enough area to be really efficient against mass infestors. Snipe can be useful, but.... hard to use because of fungle revealing cloacked units
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How about a BIG, MAJOR change for infestor?
Fungal range reduced to 6, radius increased to 2.5. Energy cost increased to 125(maybe more?)
IT's mana cost changed to 30(maybe not?).
The supply might as well get buffed to 5(maybe?), increased cost, increased size, increased build time(70?), pathogen glands buff the energy regen speed to .7something(?)
I mean, seriously, this way we still have a BIG, STRONG, GAMECHANGING ability, but it will be way harder to do it.
Chain fungals will be really tough to do, since you need to have a lot of supply in unit that will be useless for quite some time after using it's main ability once. Compare it to HT's in TvP. Most of those guys die after using one storm.
Come on, guys, we've all been excited when NaDa vs Gorush Plague happened.
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On November 11 2012 00:14 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 00:00 Yrr wrote:
Something I dont understand.
In PvT if Protoss builds HT's Terran answers asap with ghosts. But in ZvT I never see ghosts when Zerg builds infestors. Gas doesnt seem to be the problem. Why? EMP doesnt cover enough area to be really efficient against mass infestors. Snipe can be useful, but.... hard to use because of fungle revealing cloacked units
You also miss out the range on BLs and the fact that Overseers are really tough, unlike Observers.
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Make it like ensnare in SCBW ffs, slower movement and attackspeed.
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i would eather go with slow over root or root but with projectile, applying both will just make the infestor a joke
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On November 11 2012 00:14 DidYuhim wrote:
How about a BIG, MAJOR change for infestor?
Fungal range reduced to 6, radius increased to 2.5. Energy cost increased to 125(maybe more?)
IT's mana cost changed to 30(maybe not?).
The supply might as well get buffed to 5(maybe?), increased cost, increased size, increased build time(70?), pathogen glands buff the energy regen speed to .7something(?)
I mean, seriously, this way we still have a BIG, STRONG, GAMECHANGING ability, but it will be way harder to do it.
Chain fungals will be really tough to do, since you need to have a lot of supply in unit that will be useless for quite some time after using it's main ability once. Compare it to HT's in TvP. Most of those guys die after using one storm.
Come on, guys, we've all been excited when NaDa vs Gorush Plague happened.
Infestors would just die before they get the fungals off most of the time. No need for these changes
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On November 11 2012 00:22 vojnik wrote:
i would eather go with slow over root or root but with projectile, applying both will just make the infestor a joke
Not when they still have full power IT, NP, and burrow move.
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On November 11 2012 00:16 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 00:14 Insoleet wrote:On November 11 2012 00:00 Yrr wrote:
Something I dont understand.
In PvT if Protoss builds HT's Terran answers asap with ghosts. But in ZvT I never see ghosts when Zerg builds infestors. Gas doesnt seem to be the problem. Why? EMP doesnt cover enough area to be really efficient against mass infestors. Snipe can be useful, but.... hard to use because of fungle revealing cloacked units You also miss out the range on BLs and the fact that Overseers are really tough, unlike Observers.
Ghosts can be effective vs infestors, but how many do you make? if the enemy has like 12-15 infestors you won't hit that area.
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On November 11 2012 00:24 Aeceus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 00:14 DidYuhim wrote:
How about a BIG, MAJOR change for infestor?
Fungal range reduced to 6, radius increased to 2.5. Energy cost increased to 125(maybe more?)
IT's mana cost changed to 30(maybe not?).
The supply might as well get buffed to 5(maybe?), increased cost, increased size, increased build time(70?), pathogen glands buff the energy regen speed to .7something(?)
I mean, seriously, this way we still have a BIG, STRONG, GAMECHANGING ability, but it will be way harder to do it.
Chain fungals will be really tough to do, since you need to have a lot of supply in unit that will be useless for quite some time after using it's main ability once. Compare it to HT's in TvP. Most of those guys die after using one storm.
Come on, guys, we've all been excited when NaDa vs Gorush Plague happened. Infestors would just die before they get the fungals off most of the time. No need for these changes
Buff health a bit, duh. Sure, a 90 health infestor with 150+ energy is a delicious target for feedback.
I'm just saying we might be looking in wrong direction. There is certainly a problem of a race being able to max on one unit and beat everything, but there are different ways of dealing with it.
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On November 11 2012 00:28 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 00:22 vojnik wrote:
i would eather go with slow over root or root but with projectile, applying both will just make the infestor a joke Not when they still have full power IT, NP, and burrow move.
well with the ability to micro away with the projectile or the ensnare will not make the fungals as efficient as they are now, so u cannot plan 100% your energy, this means you might cast more FG, you might get your infestors killed easier etc etc. Problem i see with infestors at the moment is in hands of a good zerg player they can minimize energy usage a lot and have most infestors with full energy for ITs. I dont see Neural being much of a problem other than the mothership really as it costs lot of energy.
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I just hate non-interactive abilities like the current state of fungal growth. Make it a projectile or make it slow but not root. Better yet, make it not stick on units but stick to the area so units can leave the fungal'd area. This creates tension and keeps armies moving. The viper's new aoe ability is definitely a step in the right direction.
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On November 11 2012 00:00 Yrr wrote:
Something I dont understand.
In PvT if Protoss builds HT's Terran answers asap with ghosts. But in ZvT I never see ghosts when Zerg builds infestors. Gas doesnt seem to be the problem. Why?
Ghosts are never a bad thing to have in PvT. Even though they're especially good against HT/archon/immortal, they still help you out regardless of what's on the field.
In TvZ on the other hand, you're looking at something totally different. The only unit the ghost can be effective against is the infestor. Against anything else it's pretty well useless, and when you consider that it strangles your barracks production capability by demanding tech labs and that each one costs 200 minerals (more than any other Terran unit except BCs and thors) you begin to understand why Terrans try to avoid them. Even with ghosts on the field, infestors are very big and with anywhere from 10-25 infestors being commonplace, you'd need a lot of ghosts to neutralize them, and you don't want a lot of ghosts. You dramatically increase your vulnerability to tech switches by having them around.
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On November 11 2012 00:14 DidYuhim wrote:
How about a BIG, MAJOR change for infestor?
Fungal range reduced to 6, radius increased to 2.5. Energy cost increased to 125(maybe more?)
IT's mana cost changed to 30(maybe not?).
The supply might as well get buffed to 5(maybe?), increased cost, increased size, increased build time(70?), pathogen glands buff the energy regen speed to .7something(?)
I mean, seriously, this way we still have a BIG, STRONG, GAMECHANGING ability, but it will be way harder to do it.
Chain fungals will be really tough to do, since you need to have a lot of supply in unit that will be useless for quite some time after using it's main ability once. Compare it to HT's in TvP. Most of those guys die after using one storm.
Come on, guys, we've all been excited when NaDa vs Gorush Plague happened.
Defilers cost 50/150 and 2 supply, had a build time of 50 and had consume. Plague had a range of 9 and it could do 300 damage.
You don't want the defiler or plague back; you want the infestor to be irrelevant.
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How about first of all bringing infestors inline with Ghost and HT by reduceing fungal radius from 2.2 to 1.5
people still don't realise that sure fungal does less dmg, but it HITS fucking twice the area than EMP Or Storm, making it dps was as strong as full storm.
That and only that is why fungal is so OP.
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If fungal is changed to a slowing spell it cannot also be a projectile.
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On November 11 2012 01:45 freetgy wrote:
How about first of all bringing infestors inline with Ghost and HT by reduceing fungal radius from 2.2 to 1.5
people still don't realise that sure fungal does less dmg, but it HITS fucking twice the area than EMP Or Storm, making it dps was as strong as full storm.
That and only that is why fungal is so OP.
That's one of the questions in the poll.
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Only voted "yes" to making it 3 supply. Could be tried out at least. It seems that currently zergs get away with heavily overmaking infestors. Whereas, ideally, even smaller amounts of infestors should be enough to bring some spells into battles.
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I didn't read through the whole thread, but maybe Infestor could use similar mechanic as Reaver did? Buy Infested Terrans, stack them to certain limit or something like that. They're similar in visual design too, so... :D And Fungal Growth affecting your own units would make it more micro intensive, not just placing the spell anywhere on enemy units...
EDIT: misspell
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On November 11 2012 00:14 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 00:00 Yrr wrote:
Something I dont understand.
In PvT if Protoss builds HT's Terran answers asap with ghosts. But in ZvT I never see ghosts when Zerg builds infestors. Gas doesnt seem to be the problem. Why? EMP doesnt cover enough area to be really efficient against mass infestors. Snipe can be useful, but.... hard to use because of fungle revealing cloacked units
Also EMP removes a maximum of 100 energy. You have to hit a full energy infestor twice to remove all its energy, hit it once and it can still fungal.
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projectile, egg health, supply, fungal to projectile, fungal to slow rather than lock/stun.
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EPT
