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On November 08 2012 18:29 Valikyr wrote:
I think they should replace fungal with another spell. Give us some PLAGUUU or somethng, It just has to be a spell that you can avoid by in-battle micro and not just the way you engage.
How do you avoid plague with in-battle micro? It hits you once and all the units go to 1-3hp. There's no micro to counter it; if it hits there's nothing you can do about it. At least with fungal you can try to break the chain...
This kind of post makes me think most people just jump on the bandwagon without thinking about it at all.
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they should make infestors more skilled and thus infestors no longer disable dropping from medivacs/warp prisms allowing templar drops/ghost drops to be more viable
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There are easy fixes they can implement that don't completely throw off the balance of the game.
EMP does not hit enough infestors, but we all know that infestors are slightly big for being a caster.
Many players advocate a range increase in feedback and EMP, but this would break other parts of the game. Imagine such a simple thing as medivacs, these can now be destroyed from a ridiculous range where the HT can be protected. Just an example of how complex a change like this could become.
Infestor energy efficiency can also be a problem. Right now the cost of their "problem spells" are:
Fungal growth, 75 energy
Infested Terran, 25 energy
This means that when combat starts, every infestor can cast 2 fungals and then 2 Infested terrans, or save energy to throw a 3rd fungal slightly later.
They could implement some very simple changes to change things up.
-Decrease the size of infestors so EMP/AOE can be more punishing vs bad positioning/clumping
-Increase the energy cost of Infested Terrans to 30 energy (2 less eggs at max energy)
-Remove the ability to upgrade Infested Terrans via evolution chamber
*Optional but probably too aggressive*
-Increase the cost of Fungal Growth to 100 energy (2 fungals per infestor if saved up, but no Infested Terrans or slightly delayed 3rd fungal per infestor, talking late game energy saved up levels here)
They could change Fungal Growth to become a slow instead of root, but that is probably something that they will consider when smaller fixes and alterations fail to change the power of infestors in high numbers.
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On November 08 2012 18:38 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Infested terrans 0.5 supply, make fungal a slow and projectile, no neural parasiting massive units.
+n^n n>=1
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why is there not a poll to delete zerg?
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I liked these suggestion the best:
- increasing supply to 3
- slow instead of root
- hp of infested terran a funcion of egg hp
Of course, one can't add all the changes, that would be a much too hard nerf. I think the 3 instad of 2 supply would make the most sense, as it would be much harder to mass in large numbers which I see as the biggest problem for lategame.
Before lategame the biggest problem is probably the complete root. I think a slow would be good enough. Maybe 70% at the start and 30% at the end of the duration? Or just 50% throughout.
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On November 11 2012 03:52 aka_star wrote:
why is there not a poll to delete zerg?
Because watching zerg units splat to terran and toss weaponry is to fucking cool
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I think there are plenty of ways to nerf the festor without crippling zerg, and many have already been stated.
Here's a few I liked and I've added a few:
-Increase energy cost of fungals
-Increase cost of infestors themselves (more gas)
-Decrease infestor movement speed on and off creep
-Make burrow movement an upgrade for infestor
-Decrease infested marine duration, atk speed, hp, etc.
-Make infested marines unable to benefit from evolution chamber upgrades
-Increase time it takes for infested marines to hatch from eggs
-Decrease fungal cast range
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It's remarkable, even after the upswell of negativity over the past month and the community becoming increasingly vocal about their concerns Blizzard chooses to remain passive. Obviously 1 tournament doesnt tell the whole story, but Lone Star Clash LoL stream has almost 2x the viewers of both SC2 streams combined. Sad to see Blizzard letting SC2 die, I guess they really think HOTS is going to be a savior (which is a joke lol).
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What if they put the plague mechanic on it, and made it so that fungal itself cannot kill anything? Non-lethal. The lowest fungal growth can damage is down to 1 hp. This would help the self-sufficiency issue that the infestor faces, and forces it more into the support role it's supposed to be in.
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maybe do the 3 food change to the infestor, doing all those would be such a nerf. if you do all those you better buff something else, like hydra range or speed...
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I pretty much agree with how the poll results are thus far, just the last one should be a yes, emp and storm can also affect your own units.
I say making it slow, a projectile and 3 supply should make this game about 500 times better, the infested terran change sounds nice too.
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I love the Idea that fungal can not kill by itself a la Plague, but I hate the Idea of increasing its supply  (I want a variety of units to drop down 1 supply; siege tank, hydra [with decreased stats], immortal)
I honestly have no idea what to do about infested Terrans, but I think its a stupid spell anyway... remember when It was a spell for the overseer?!?!?
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Hm, well I'd prefer fungal becoming closer to BW's plague (keeping current radius, an AoE that doesn't stick on units but affects an area much like storm), and maybe incorporate slowing movement/slowing attack speed as well while decreasing damage done. It might be too imba like this, too. Not sure. 3 food infestors do sound good.
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Honestly they should just remove Smart Casting for Infestor. That will fix the problem without actually nerfing the unit.
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My take on the Infestor. Fungal first
Its a well known complain SC2 units clump way too much which makes battles uninteresting. Fungsl is one of the few spells in game that punishes this. Peopl say BW is mechanically more challenging because you have to control your units in small chunks the whole time. SC2 allows you to do both. one big army or many smaller ones with the latter being good against the fungal at a cost of some skill from player, but they prefer to do the former and then complain game doesnt require skill.
One day we may see Flash/Bisu just playing like that and never having more than 3 units fungaled at the same time and people will praise how sc2 rewards mad skills.
About Infested Terran
I think this one looks a bit OP when you have too many of them. at low number they seem fine. Id vote for making Infestors 3 supply instead. It would reduce IT numbers unless you really push for this kind of strategy, and it doesnt change too much on fungal side
Neural seems fine and works as the opposite of IT.Its better when you have low Infestor count but as Infestor numbers increases, IT becomes better
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I like the idea of making infestors a smaller model size, 3 supply, and fungal a slow.
I think neural parasite on massive units is one of its main uses, and should be kept, and the mothership removed to solve that issue (obviously with Protoss tweaks to fill that gap).
I don't like the idea of infested terrans costing supply, but I wholly support the idea of infested terrans not benefitting from any upgrades. Even a shortened timespan, or removing armor on the eggs. But targeting eggs in the first place seems like a bad idea.
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- infestor 3 supply
- infested terran energy cost to 30 & 0.5/1 army supply per each and lower armor of the egg because it's tanking too much dmg
- fungal growth ~80% slow instead of immobilization
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4713 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:02 blackbrrd wrote:
I liked these suggestion the best:
- increasing supply to 3
- slow instead of root
- hp of infested terran a funcion of egg hp
Of course, one can't add all the changes, that would be a much too hard nerf. I think the 3 instad of 2 supply would make the most sense, as it would be much harder to mass in large numbers which I see as the biggest problem for lategame.
Before lategame the biggest problem is probably the complete root. I think a slow would be good enough. Maybe 70% at the start and 30% at the end of the duration? Or just 50% throughout.
I don't agree with the 3 supply instead of 2, because Zerg will still mass as many infestors as possible within that supply limit. The unit is just too good to not get, I believe the best approach would be to nerf them in such a way that you only want to get 6-9 or that way they become as desirable as the other casters of the other races.
The infestors need to have diminishing returns and at the moment they don't. The real culprits here are infested terrans, they are too good, its never a bad idea to have too many infestors because you can create an army out of nothing that can combat almost anything, or be a great supplement to your own army. This needs to change, and the best ways would be to make it that IT no longer benefit from upgrades and increase their energy cost to 50.
The other problem with infestors, is that fungal is way too punishing and anti-climatic. I agree with punishing someone for mistakes, but not repeatedly punishing for the same mistake. At the moment if you get a clump of your units fungled just once you lose them all, you get punished over and over again as the zerg just keeps chaining until your units are dead. I don't agree with making fungal a slow, I believe all forms of movement impairment are bad, concussive shells, fungals, force fields etc. But since I have no idea what spell would be better to give infestors as a replacement to fungal, I'd go with a slow effect, however, it should be only a slow, no damage, and it needs to be 50% slow, if it is to strong like 75% then its still too effective, if its lower then 50% its probably too weak.
And yes, I do know that the changes I'm advocating for will basically necessitate a redesign of zerg. But I'm fine with that, because I hate the design of zerg atm. While the other races have strong units that are made stronger and their army is complemented by caster units, zerg is the other way around, it has a very strong caster that needs to be supported by the weaker units. The infestors is so strong that it also phases out other units and/or compositions to some extent, this is again a problem. If you want other unit compositions like Muta, Ling, Bling or units like the Swarm Host, Viper and Hydras to see more use, then infestors need to be nerfed by such a magnitude that it warrants a buff of the other under used units and diversifies the MU.
For the better of SC2, I believe the infestor needs to be nerfed until it is brought in line with the other casters, nerfed to such an extent that it becomes undesirable to get more then, 12-15 at most, so that other compostions/units can get some much needed love.
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i dont' think infested terrans should cost supply, as that kinda defeats the point of them, and would provide a few disadvantages to actually maxing out as zerg. However i think the eggs should have the same hp as the ITs, because it's kinda dumb that any damage you do to infested terran eggs is completely worthless when they hatch
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EPT
