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Creative Development Q&A and Kerrigan's Fate

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 21:09:03
October 29 2012 19:12 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Question: Raynor's attitude in StarCraft II was surprising, considering where we left off in Brood War. After Kerrigan backstabbed him and killed Fenix, Raynor gave up on her and was hell-bent on getting rid of her. He explicitly promised he would kill her. What led him to change his mind, killing Tychus so he could save her?
Answer: I answered most of this question previously, but I want to follow up with this one for two reasons, which I'll take in reverse order.
About Tychus: By the time Jim and Tychus are in the cave with Kerrigan, I think Jim is all-in. He's made his choice. There's no going back, and no shrinking from what has to be done.
The bigger reason I wanted to address this issue was your good point that Jim's attitudes and actions at the beginning of Wings are surprising. I want to have a discussion with the community about this, and hear your thoughts. At the start of Wings of Liberty, it had been four years since Brood War, and Jim had been through a lot. He'd had time to reflect on the past—perhaps too much time. Additionally, the Queen of Blades was in seclusion for most of that time, so she was not continually stoking his hatred. If Jim felt the same exact emotions at that point, if his thoughts had not evolved at all, that would be very strange. It would be as if the intervening four years hadn't happened, and he was just a two dimensional automaton sitting in purgatory, waiting for the story to resume. So Jim slipped into an alcoholic haze, and focused on the things he'd lost—including the red-headed ghost, Sarah Kerrigan.
That's the reasoning for Jim's surprising actions. Now, the counterargument would be, players didn't go through those four years with Jim. They didn't experience that—so they experienced a disconnect. Jim went from one attitude straight into another. This is a completely valid argument.
So I'd ask the community—what do you think? Should Jim have been in the same spot emotionally that he'd been in four years earlier? Or was the evolution a good idea, but poorly executed? Or was it a good idea and it worked fine for most of us? Or should it have been a whole different idea?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7713050/StarCraft_II_Creative_Development_QA_-_Part_4-10_29_2012

Here is what Blizzzard has said previously about Jim's decision to save Kerrigan
Question: Why did Jim Raynor turn his back on everything that happened in the original StarCraft and Brood War, in that instead of killing Kerrigan (he watched her do some BAD stuff), he fell in love with her?
Answer: The first thing to consider is how Jim perceived Kerrigan. Certainly Horner, Tychus, and the Hyperion crew all viewed her as an evil being who should pay for her crimes. They didn't see a distinction between Kerrigan and the Queen of Blades, and for a long time Jim probably didn't either. But the moment Valerian uttered those words about saving Sarah, a door opened in Jim's mind. Could there truly be the "old" Sarah — cold-eyed assassin, but not a mass murderer — somewhere inside the ruthless alien queen? Was it possible? Jim didn’t know the answer to that for sure. He'd seen the Queen of Blades deceive everyone before, and he wouldn’t put all his trust in Valerian's judgment. So for Jim, it came down to his gut, as it always does. Jim had a choice: hold on to his hatred for Mengsk and the Queen of Blades, or grasp the hope that perhaps he could fix this. And his gut told him to take that chance.
Jim has lost so much in his life — more than most people — and that made the idea of redeeming Kerrigan all the more powerful in his mind. He'd lost family, friends, worlds, ideals...and he thought he'd lost Kerrigan, too. Then he learned there was hope of redeeming her. This was the first time he'd had a chance to regain something he'd thought lost, his only opportunity to make things better rather than stop them from getting worse.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7597722

Sarah Kerrigan: What are you worried about, Jim? He died the way all Protoss hope to: in combat!
Jim Raynor: He died because you betrayed him! How many more noble souls do you need to consume before you're satisfied?! How many more innocent people have to die before you realize what you've become?!
Sarah Kerrigan: You don't even know what you're talking about, Jim.
Jim Raynor: Don't I? I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power!
Sarah Kerrigan: Tough talk, Jimmy, but I don't think you have what it takes to be a killer.
Jim Raynor: It may not be tomorrow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day! I'll be seeing you!

My Thoughts
This was one of the most defining moments in Starcraft history. It was the moment Jim Raynor laid aside his love for Kerrigan and took up arms with the rest of the universe. I can understand the decision to reverse this pivotal moment but in my heart of hearts I did not, and do not, agree with it. Kerrigan is a monster and Jimmy is the one who is going to kill her. To deny Starcraft that justice in my mind is to abandon everything that the players have fought for.

The question of whether Kerrigan was truly evil or just possessed by the Zerg was one answered in BroodWar. Kerrigan comes to her former allies and claims that she was under the Overmind's control. And she betrays them. Three times.

The story of BroodWar is in large part the story of Kerrigan's damnation. That she was not merely bad because of zerg influence, but rather a being who became obsessed with power and control as payback for all her past suffering.

And that is fine. It was briliant storytelling and it made her one of the most hated villians of sci-fi. But this was no Darth Vader. Throughout WoL we were never treated to a single moment when Kerrigan showed regret. Instead Raynor wanted her to be good and it is only natural that her salvation should seem fake, artificial, and forced as a result of a lack of internal redemption.



Edit: This was a great write up
http://sclegacy.com/editorials/7-reviews/1134-scl-reviews-wings-of-liberty
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Shai
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada806 Posts
October 29 2012 19:17 GMT
#2
The problem isn't the change in attitude, it's the lack of storytelling. They should have shown how/why his attitude changed, not just said "four years - it happened sometime." They could have put it into a conversation, a flashback, a fantasy, or something else. They were just lazy and that's why there are so many questions about this.
Eagerly awaiting Techies.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
October 29 2012 19:19 GMT
#3
I want to punch whoever came up with this particular story development
Writerptrk
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
October 29 2012 19:27 GMT
#4
I honestly feel like blizzard is severely lacking in their story telling lately. Everything seems so PG 13 and predictable and TBH its really lame IMO

-zerg someone being 'slaves' the entire time , eventually what? they are gonna try and make them some kinda good guys.
-the whole raynor saving kerrigan and turning her into human (ish)......holy shit lame
-almost every line of dialogue raynor spouts is cringe worthy (not dissing the voice actor I think he's good, just hate the writing)

I just separate it in my mind. Starcraft and the brood wars happened and that was that, the end. Everything they are doing now is not canon in my mind, I just suppress it and tell myself it didn't happen. (same with d3)
Nimix
Profile Joined October 2011
France1809 Posts
October 29 2012 19:32 GMT
#5
so they experienced a disconnect

Hence no lan mode.
Darknat
Profile Joined March 2011
United States122 Posts
October 29 2012 19:37 GMT
#6
I actually facepalmed the first time I played through that mission. That vow should have been directed towards Mengsk, not Kerrigan. If Mengsk hadn't been a bastard and had not abandoned Kerrigan Kerrigan wouldn't have been turned into the Queen of Blades in the first place.
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 19:40:41
October 29 2012 19:39 GMT
#7
OP, I couldn't agree more with you. This single moment in the campaign encapsulates everything I was hoping for from the campaign of SC2 for twelve years. Even more than the secret hybrid mission. I still remember the first time I did it... I hesitated for like twenty minutes hoping some surprise event would pop up and change the objectives before I actually killed fenix so he wouldn't actually die. Then I used spawn broodling and I felt so guilty for killing him in such a cheap and cowardly way, then Raynor came on and called me out on what a bitch I was and I remember thinking "NOOO ITS ALL TRUE! I BETRAYED MY HERO!!! IM A HORRIBLE PERSON! WHY DID YOU MAKE ME DO THIS KERRIGAN!!! I HATE YOU!!"
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
Achaia
Profile Joined July 2010
United States643 Posts
October 29 2012 19:39 GMT
#8
On October 30 2012 04:32 Nimix wrote:
Show nested quote +
so they experienced a disconnect

Hence no lan mode.


Bahaha, I literally laughed out loud. So funny. But yeah, I dunno, story-wise I can see either way working out well. I agree with the original thought from Blizzard on the whole once he heard there was a way to save her he couldn't let go of that hope. I think everyone can connect with that on some level.
http://www.youtube.com/SCBattleGrounds
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
October 29 2012 19:50 GMT
#9
And I loved the idea in the SC2 campaign that Zeratul comes to Raynor with a message that Kerrigan is the key to defeating the hybrid/xel'naga and saving the galaxy and he must protect her, because then that puts Raynor in the uncomfortable position where everyone in the world will think he's crazy and his personal goal (kill her) conflicts with what is right for the greater good (protect her so she can stop the hybrid/xel naga) and continues the tension of the sc1 and brood war campaigns where you have to make these uncomfortable alliances that you know will be trouble in the long run but its what you have to do to survive the current dilemma. The idea that you are working together because you have to but at any moment your allies could stab you in the back.

It could have been so amazing. But one little tweak to a character's motivations and this brilliant drama falls from epic status to soap opera status.
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1613 Posts
October 29 2012 19:52 GMT
#10
I think that Blizzard explained everything. One thing that they didn't explain is why Kerrigan didn't destroyed everyone in those four years...
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
CYFAWS
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden275 Posts
October 29 2012 19:52 GMT
#11
inb4 raynor actually kills kerrigan in LOTV, and this was planned all along.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 20:04:26
October 29 2012 20:03 GMT
#12
On October 30 2012 04:52 CYFAWS wrote:
inb4 raynor actually kills kerrigan in LOTV, and this was planned all along.


That would be streamlined either. What would be surprising if Kerrigan continued domination after the end of SC2.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 20:06:44
October 29 2012 20:06 GMT
#13
Frigging Raynor , Bros over hoes not the other way around. She killed goddamn Fenix, FENIX, should have owned that bitch.

I hope Kerrigan kills Raynor.
WriterXiao8~~
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
October 29 2012 20:07 GMT
#14
On October 30 2012 04:19 ArvickHero wrote:
I want to punch whoever came up with this particular story development


Indeed.

BW story was fucking awesome. Imo, one of the better storylines of all time, and THE absolute BEST storyline for any RTS game. WoL was one of the absolute WORST continuations of a storyline I've ever experienced. Fucking hated it.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
October 29 2012 20:08 GMT
#15
On October 30 2012 05:06 Kipsate wrote:
Frigging Raynor , Bros over hoes not the other way around. She killed goddamn Fenix, FENIX, should have owned that bitch.

I hope Kerrigan kills Raynor.

Oh common, she is a perfect villain. Sophisticated yet brutal. At least that how it was in BW. What goes in SC2 is laughable.
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3596 Posts
October 29 2012 20:18 GMT
#16
On October 30 2012 04:39 Achaia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2012 04:32 Nimix wrote:
so they experienced a disconnect

Hence no lan mode.


I agree with the original thought from Blizzard on the whole once he heard there was a way to save her he couldn't let go of that hope. I think everyone can connect with that on some level.


I know a lot of people want for Jim to hate Kerrigan forever; but I think the question of Sarah's redemption (i.e. how much of her is truly evil?) is probably the best and most deeply personal story they could tell. The story wouldn't be as compelling if Kerrigan was completely absolved of her actions as the Queen of Blades, and suffered no consequences for that as a person and in the universe.

I really like what Blizzard has hinted at regarding the internal struggles that Jim, Sarah and their relationship as a whole will suffer as they both figure out exactly who she is and what she is capable of going forward. Jim reviles the the Queen of Blades actions, but at the end of the day he is in love with Sarah Kerrigan and wants to save her. The question is...how much of Sarah can truly be saved? How much of Sarah herself was actually driving the personality of the Queen of Blades?

You're completely right though, I have loved and lost and that's why the redemption story is such a compelling one for me. I'm more interested in the relationships of the characters than I am in a huge intergalactic war between alien races, but the huge intergalactic war sure doesn't hurt =)
KT FlaSh FOREVER
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
October 29 2012 20:26 GMT
#17
well the thing is if jimmy killed kerrigan than blizzard has run out of ideas to who else to put in command to control the swarm that is one of the reason why they cook up the story line this way . No way one could forget what kerrigan have done in broodwar jimmy should have killed her..
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
October 29 2012 21:08 GMT
#18
The question of whether Kerrigan was truly evil or just possessed by the Zerg was one answered in BroodWar. Kerrigan comes to her former allies and claims that she was under the Overmind's control. And she betrays them. Three times.

The story of BroodWar is in large part the story of Kerrigan's damnation. That she was not merely bad because of zerg influence, but rather a being who became obsessed with power and control as payback for all her past suffering.

And that is fine. It was briliant storytelling and it made her one of the most hated villians of sci-fi. But this was no Darth Vader. Throughout WoL we were never treated to a single moment when Kerrigan showed regret. Instead Raynor wanted her to be good and it is only natural that her salvation should seem fake, artificial, and forced as a result of a lack of internal redemption.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
October 29 2012 21:31 GMT
#19
On October 30 2012 06:08 Archerofaiur wrote:
The question of whether Kerrigan was truly evil or just possessed by the Zerg was one answered in BroodWar. Kerrigan comes to her former allies and claims that she was under the Overmind's control. And she betrays them. Three times.

The story of BroodWar is in large part the story of Kerrigan's damnation. That she was not merely bad because of zerg influence, but rather a being who became obsessed with power and control as payback for all her past suffering.

And that is fine. It was briliant storytelling and it made her one of the most hated villians of sci-fi. But this was no Darth Vader. Throughout WoL we were never treated to a single moment when Kerrigan showed regret. Instead Raynor wanted her to be good and it is only natural that her salvation should seem fake, artificial, and forced as a result of a lack of internal redemption.

Or any other emotion for that matter. :/
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
SgtCoDFish
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1520 Posts
October 29 2012 21:32 GMT
#20
On October 30 2012 05:26 Sawamura wrote:
well the thing is if jimmy killed kerrigan than blizzard has run out of ideas to who else to put in command to control the swarm that is one of the reason why they cook up the story line this way . No way one could forget what kerrigan have done in broodwar jimmy should have killed her..


Except for the part where Jim knows that if he kills her/she dies he'll doom the entire universe thanks to Zeratul's vision.

I think it's pretty believable that Jim, knowing that plus what he used to feel for Kerrigan before she became the Queen of Blades, chose to keep her alive.

Of course, you could say that Zeratul's vision was a bad storyline, but with the current storyline it works fine that he saves her. I don't think Jim who's been fighting for 4 years for a better future and who has a strong sense of duty is going to let cold hearted vengeance doom the entire universe.
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