• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:27
CET 01:27
KST 09:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !2Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1786 users

Grubby's Manifesto on SC2 / eSports - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
dark_dragoon10
Profile Joined May 2010
United States299 Posts
October 19 2012 08:40 GMT
#61
The class shown by a world class progamer. Honestly you are the golden torch for foreign esports along with white-ra and artosis. (WHY MUST YOU ALL BE PROTOSS)
The TYRANT IS BACK! JAEDONG HWAITING! Nal_rA, Yellow, Boxer 4 life. Stephano, MC, and Zergbong!!!!
GriMeR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States148 Posts
October 19 2012 08:55 GMT
#62
Thank you for not being a pessimist about this matter like destiny was. I feel you have the right outlook and attitude towards the matter. I really appreciate the professionalism involved in this post. great post grubby
"Now let's have coffee and discuss the bunker build time!" "I'm still kinda on the fence about it Dustin, we can't make changes like these on a whim" "Agreed, agreed ... what do you think David?" "Hmmm what? ... I mean, o yeah, Terran definitely seems
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
October 19 2012 09:41 GMT
#63
best post of the year, calling it right now.
crow_mw
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 10:16:02
October 19 2012 10:12 GMT
#64
This post represents a great holistic approach, as opposed to many of the others ideas for eSports to evolve presented in the last few days. I like how you focus on both the competitive and casual aspects needed for a modern game to exist as opposed to 'we need more retarded achievements and customs skins'. If I were to pick one community feedback front, that would be presented to Blizzard, this would definitely be the Grubby Front.

The hardest part of your Manifesto is 'have trust in Blizzard'. Diablo 3 was a failure. Dragonsoul was a failure (to a degree that prevented me from buying MoP). Starcraft 2 is the only good title still going on for them...

Chewie
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark708 Posts
October 19 2012 10:30 GMT
#65
Have you seen Starbow?

This is a cool fusion of BW and SC2 elements, creating what looks extremely cool imo. The future of SC2 if we are really really lucky.
Taru
Profile Joined October 2010
France88 Posts
October 19 2012 10:40 GMT
#66
It's always nice to read the opinion from a pro like you, I hope people will listen and take notes of your advices.
NexCa
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany954 Posts
October 19 2012 10:46 GMT
#67
great points, agree with pretty much everything Grubby wrote
Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
October 19 2012 10:48 GMT
#68
Grubby <3
Someone with sense!
I agree with so much of what you said and I'm glad you were objective about what you were writing about.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Growiel
Profile Joined October 2010
Korea (South)363 Posts
October 19 2012 10:49 GMT
#69
On October 19 2012 19:12 crow_mw wrote:
This post represents a great holistic approach, as opposed to many of the others ideas for eSports to evolve presented in the last few days. I like how you focus on both the competitive and casual aspects needed for a modern game to exist as opposed to 'we need more retarded achievements and customs skins'. If I were to pick one community feedback front, that would be presented to Blizzard, this would definitely be the Grubby Front.

The hardest part of your Manifesto is 'have trust in Blizzard'. Diablo 3 was a failure. Dragonsoul was a failure (to a degree that prevented me from buying MoP). Starcraft 2 is the only good title still going on for them...



Actually MoP is considered by a lot of people (including hardcore raiders) as the best extension for WoW, after BC.

They can make mistake (ie: Catacrap), but they also learn from them.
StarCraft II for ever.
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
October 19 2012 10:50 GMT
#70
Grubby, easily the best post on TL in ages. Thanks.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
October 19 2012 10:53 GMT
#71
dat Grubby
WriterXiao8~~
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 19 2012 10:54 GMT
#72
Can't agree on everything, but those points are more personal preference. But most is really the undeniable truth. And the format makes it so easy to read. I envy your skill of bringing your thoughts out so clearly in any form and of course those of others.
Thanks for the writeup, I started to feel that all this negativity going was starting to affect me.
DKR
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom622 Posts
October 19 2012 10:59 GMT
#73
And this is why people prefer you over Sase.
"1 base. Cheese man." - MKP. "[MVP] is not stylistic, his style is winning, which is the style you want to have." - Artosis
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
October 19 2012 11:00 GMT
#74
Just finished up with Sase's thread and now this comes up. I guess I'm never gonna sleep.

Great read over all Grubsters. I also have faith that sc2 will be the best and top e-sport and it really begins with the community. Well spoken.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
SarkON
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation117 Posts
October 19 2012 11:01 GMT
#75
Here for you Grubby as pure as it gets ladies and gentelmen.
Hats off, amazing as always.
Who Dares Wins...
WhX
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany778 Posts
October 19 2012 11:06 GMT
#76
I'm glad you actually added that a governing body with the aforementioned attributes seems to be implausible - that was the point which made me perplex at first.
Otherwise I totally agree with the points you (and the contributors - they deserve some credit as well it seems) made, they are valid and well-explained. I hope this gets spotlighted asap and read by as many people as possible.

E-sports needs time and dedication to grow properly, and by people like Grubby constantly contributing to its development, e-sports might have a bright future ahead of it. Thank you!
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
October 19 2012 11:07 GMT
#77
I do not care enough about the community and the pro scene so most points are irrelevant for me.

I don't think the game being fun is just a combination of difficulty and mastery though. There are tons of games which are difficult and can be mastered yet not interesting to watch, it's really difficult to explain but I think the game being playable on a lower level yet be amazed by the pro's do with the same game is essential. Something like soccer has this.
SC2 needs to be more difficult and interesting but the pro's need not simply be better at it than the average joe, they need to be able to do moves simple guys simply can;t do, like hard combo's to pull off etc. I'm afraid HOTS is not really going in that direction with the current development it's at.
I don't trust blizzard just because BW and TFT vastly improved upon the originals. Those originals were also unplayable. SC2 was way more complete at start and far more difficult to improve on I think, yet it also has some serious flaws which seem so hard to solve, like protoss reliability on FF and deathball syndrome.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
October 19 2012 11:11 GMT
#78
On October 19 2012 19:59 DKR wrote:
And this is why people prefer you over Sase.

No that's not the reason.
NesquiKGG
Profile Joined February 2012
100 Posts
October 19 2012 11:15 GMT
#79
Grubby is the MAN!!! Nice read !
I cheated on my fears, broke up with my doubts, got engaged to my faith and now I'm marrying my dreams.
Veriol
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic502 Posts
October 19 2012 11:17 GMT
#80
I can relate to W3 bnet. I basically played there for 5 years and I almost havent touched the 1v1 or ladder. All I did was customs, chatting and just hanging around. So far no game ever has been able to replicate so much fun and socialness(?) for me. I played WoW for some time and it has been nice aswell (even though ppl can be really bitches there).
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape." -iloveoov
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
21:20
SWISS Round 5 into Bracket
ZZZero.O93
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 531
PiGStarcraft93
CosmosSc2 40
Nathanias 11
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 93
NaDa 38
Mong 10
Dota 2
syndereN1408
420jenkins444
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox301
PPMD54
Other Games
summit1g9702
Grubby4026
Day[9].tv476
JimRising 267
Fuzer 192
C9.Mang0174
Mew2King106
ViBE77
Maynarde74
Trikslyr66
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick734
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 85
• davetesta13
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki35
• blackmanpl 22
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22346
• WagamamaTV1049
Other Games
• imaqtpie1838
• Day9tv476
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
33m
WardiTV 2025
11h 33m
MaNa vs Gerald
TBD vs Shameless
TBD vs MaxPax
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs ShoWTimE
TBD vs uThermal
OSC
14h 33m
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
1d 9h
WardiTV 2025
1d 12h
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.