• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:57
CEST 06:57
KST 13:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy8ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8692 users

Grubby's Manifesto on SC2 / eSports - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
dark_dragoon10
Profile Joined May 2010
United States299 Posts
October 19 2012 08:40 GMT
#61
The class shown by a world class progamer. Honestly you are the golden torch for foreign esports along with white-ra and artosis. (WHY MUST YOU ALL BE PROTOSS)
The TYRANT IS BACK! JAEDONG HWAITING! Nal_rA, Yellow, Boxer 4 life. Stephano, MC, and Zergbong!!!!
GriMeR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States148 Posts
October 19 2012 08:55 GMT
#62
Thank you for not being a pessimist about this matter like destiny was. I feel you have the right outlook and attitude towards the matter. I really appreciate the professionalism involved in this post. great post grubby
"Now let's have coffee and discuss the bunker build time!" "I'm still kinda on the fence about it Dustin, we can't make changes like these on a whim" "Agreed, agreed ... what do you think David?" "Hmmm what? ... I mean, o yeah, Terran definitely seems
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
October 19 2012 09:41 GMT
#63
best post of the year, calling it right now.
crow_mw
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 10:16:02
October 19 2012 10:12 GMT
#64
This post represents a great holistic approach, as opposed to many of the others ideas for eSports to evolve presented in the last few days. I like how you focus on both the competitive and casual aspects needed for a modern game to exist as opposed to 'we need more retarded achievements and customs skins'. If I were to pick one community feedback front, that would be presented to Blizzard, this would definitely be the Grubby Front.

The hardest part of your Manifesto is 'have trust in Blizzard'. Diablo 3 was a failure. Dragonsoul was a failure (to a degree that prevented me from buying MoP). Starcraft 2 is the only good title still going on for them...

Chewie
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark708 Posts
October 19 2012 10:30 GMT
#65
Have you seen Starbow?

This is a cool fusion of BW and SC2 elements, creating what looks extremely cool imo. The future of SC2 if we are really really lucky.
Taru
Profile Joined October 2010
France88 Posts
October 19 2012 10:40 GMT
#66
It's always nice to read the opinion from a pro like you, I hope people will listen and take notes of your advices.
NexCa
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany954 Posts
October 19 2012 10:46 GMT
#67
great points, agree with pretty much everything Grubby wrote
Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
October 19 2012 10:48 GMT
#68
Grubby <3
Someone with sense!
I agree with so much of what you said and I'm glad you were objective about what you were writing about.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Growiel
Profile Joined October 2010
Korea (South)363 Posts
October 19 2012 10:49 GMT
#69
On October 19 2012 19:12 crow_mw wrote:
This post represents a great holistic approach, as opposed to many of the others ideas for eSports to evolve presented in the last few days. I like how you focus on both the competitive and casual aspects needed for a modern game to exist as opposed to 'we need more retarded achievements and customs skins'. If I were to pick one community feedback front, that would be presented to Blizzard, this would definitely be the Grubby Front.

The hardest part of your Manifesto is 'have trust in Blizzard'. Diablo 3 was a failure. Dragonsoul was a failure (to a degree that prevented me from buying MoP). Starcraft 2 is the only good title still going on for them...



Actually MoP is considered by a lot of people (including hardcore raiders) as the best extension for WoW, after BC.

They can make mistake (ie: Catacrap), but they also learn from them.
StarCraft II for ever.
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
October 19 2012 10:50 GMT
#70
Grubby, easily the best post on TL in ages. Thanks.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
October 19 2012 10:53 GMT
#71
dat Grubby
WriterXiao8~~
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 19 2012 10:54 GMT
#72
Can't agree on everything, but those points are more personal preference. But most is really the undeniable truth. And the format makes it so easy to read. I envy your skill of bringing your thoughts out so clearly in any form and of course those of others.
Thanks for the writeup, I started to feel that all this negativity going was starting to affect me.
DKR
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom622 Posts
October 19 2012 10:59 GMT
#73
And this is why people prefer you over Sase.
"1 base. Cheese man." - MKP. "[MVP] is not stylistic, his style is winning, which is the style you want to have." - Artosis
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
October 19 2012 11:00 GMT
#74
Just finished up with Sase's thread and now this comes up. I guess I'm never gonna sleep.

Great read over all Grubsters. I also have faith that sc2 will be the best and top e-sport and it really begins with the community. Well spoken.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
SarkON
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation117 Posts
October 19 2012 11:01 GMT
#75
Here for you Grubby as pure as it gets ladies and gentelmen.
Hats off, amazing as always.
Who Dares Wins...
WhX
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany778 Posts
October 19 2012 11:06 GMT
#76
I'm glad you actually added that a governing body with the aforementioned attributes seems to be implausible - that was the point which made me perplex at first.
Otherwise I totally agree with the points you (and the contributors - they deserve some credit as well it seems) made, they are valid and well-explained. I hope this gets spotlighted asap and read by as many people as possible.

E-sports needs time and dedication to grow properly, and by people like Grubby constantly contributing to its development, e-sports might have a bright future ahead of it. Thank you!
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
October 19 2012 11:07 GMT
#77
I do not care enough about the community and the pro scene so most points are irrelevant for me.

I don't think the game being fun is just a combination of difficulty and mastery though. There are tons of games which are difficult and can be mastered yet not interesting to watch, it's really difficult to explain but I think the game being playable on a lower level yet be amazed by the pro's do with the same game is essential. Something like soccer has this.
SC2 needs to be more difficult and interesting but the pro's need not simply be better at it than the average joe, they need to be able to do moves simple guys simply can;t do, like hard combo's to pull off etc. I'm afraid HOTS is not really going in that direction with the current development it's at.
I don't trust blizzard just because BW and TFT vastly improved upon the originals. Those originals were also unplayable. SC2 was way more complete at start and far more difficult to improve on I think, yet it also has some serious flaws which seem so hard to solve, like protoss reliability on FF and deathball syndrome.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
October 19 2012 11:11 GMT
#78
On October 19 2012 19:59 DKR wrote:
And this is why people prefer you over Sase.

No that's not the reason.
NesquiKGG
Profile Joined February 2012
100 Posts
October 19 2012 11:15 GMT
#79
Grubby is the MAN!!! Nice read !
I cheated on my fears, broke up with my doubts, got engaged to my faith and now I'm marrying my dreams.
Veriol
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic502 Posts
October 19 2012 11:17 GMT
#80
I can relate to W3 bnet. I basically played there for 5 years and I almost havent touched the 1v1 or ladder. All I did was customs, chatting and just hanging around. So far no game ever has been able to replicate so much fun and socialness(?) for me. I played WoW for some time and it has been nice aswell (even though ppl can be really bitches there).
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape." -iloveoov
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 252
ProTech151
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 822
ggaemo 223
ToSsGirL 92
Bale 30
sSak 26
Icarus 12
Dewaltoss 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm217
League of Legends
JimRising 636
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0390
Mew2King78
Other Games
summit1g11431
WinterStarcraft521
crisheroes274
ArmadaUGS102
Moletrap5
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 94
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
5h 3m
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
7h 3m
BSL
14h 3m
Replay Cast
19h 3m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 11h
OSC
1d 19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-27
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.