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As a footmen frenzy lover, I approve this post.
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Grubby, was this posted in the pros only forum on battle.net?
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Brilliant work Grubby. Your research into this has payed off, and I hope everyone who follows SC2 reads this and makes use of your knowledge.
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On October 20 2012 02:43 bryanveloso wrote:Show nested quote +» For Liquipedia to get "Liquipedia TV" which is a show that would combine all the results of the past week into a nice consumable TV show SportsCenter for StarCraft would be amazing. Hard to pull off, but amazing.
we had it, it was called fuck slasher and then mlg just cba'd because they couldnt charge ppv for it.
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Incredible post, Grubby, you are awesome as hell, and I really agree with everything you've said. ^^
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grubby for next president of ESF... heck the world!!!
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Nice to take the time to write, not sure what good it will do... seems like pissing in the wind to me as more people latch onto LoL and Dota 2 and abandon SC2. I don't know what good it will do to plead with sponsors to stay in sc2 with promises that we will buy their products as the viewer count diminishes. Perhaps it will just level out at some point and some of the suggests may cushon the decline, time will tell. Thanks grubby anyway.
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This was an awesome article and I'm glad you wrote it in the midst of all this negativity! I'm still very excited about the future and what it could bring and I believe things will get better and better!
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Grubby for President of ESPORTS 2012. Seriously though, you are a champion Grubby, in every sense of the word. Love to see someone with your clout really trying to make the scene better for everyone.
To bring a little something more to his discussion than just singing praises: The one section that seemed perhaps a little lacking was Player Responsibility. I don't think anyone would disagree that a player's job first and foremost is to be the best at the game they can be, and to play the highest level games possible. Players want to play the best and spectators want to watch the best games.
However, the real stars of eSports are the ones that play high level Starcraft AND bring something to the scene beyond just their games. They do things like give good interviews, make interesting posts on TL, appear on the various eSports talk shows, commentate during downtime at tournaments, run an entertaining stream... any number of small and large things that both promote themselves as interesting personalities as well as add value to the community. This does not mean that everyone has to dance around in a murloc suit like MC or stir up controversy like Idra (though those things certainly have their place). It just means that these players understand the value of presenting themselves well and contributing as much as they can.
Few players have results that truly speak for themselves (your MVPs, Flashes, etc.), and even picking up a championship doesn't guarantee that you'll be remembered for long. Again, I'm not saying that players should focus primarily on being entertainers instead of competitors, but it is the reality that the big names out there understand that success usually means more than just winning.
Stars generate excitement about tournaments, they generate interest from sponsors, they have more personal clout when it comes to finding teams/tournaments/opportunities, and they make participation in the scene from fans that much more fun. I don't think it's my place to claim that it is a "player's responsibility" to try to become this type of star, but it certainly benefits everyone when they do.
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Great post, hope everyone gets a chance to read it.
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On October 20 2012 03:18 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:43 bryanveloso wrote:» For Liquipedia to get "Liquipedia TV" which is a show that would combine all the results of the past week into a nice consumable TV show SportsCenter for StarCraft would be amazing. Hard to pull off, but amazing. we had it, it was called fuck slasher and then mlg just cba'd because they couldnt charge ppv for it.
I know a few people who are working on something like this, but they're still looking for more people.
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Been too caught up reading all the drama thats happened lately, and you don't know how happy it makes me to know that I can still read a quality post on SC2 General. Thank you Grubby 
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On October 19 2012 15:50 Grubby wrote:
Well it's a bit of a chain reaction. If you think it's weird, that probably makes it weird. Imagine if you didn't think it's weird, then it wouldn't be weird. It's just logical. We all start a-thinking and the post keep a-coming.
Hah! This is why Grubby is my favorite caster, and the first person I followed when I finally joined twitter last week.
I like that you're approaching a different angle of things that "need" to change or at least could be improved, Grubby. I especially liked the idea of the weekly recap show. I know live viewership is probably preferred, but having a Digest version of the last week's tourneys/matches would give people a way to know what they may have missed and should go back for.
Small side note that I wish I'd sent to you while you were requesting input: going back for VODs might not be ideal for the tournament bodies, since they seem to all be moving to a sub-only business model instead of advertisements. It seems like I can't even go back and watch MLG/NASL VODs at all without subscribing... My own tourney viewership is down because I don't like being forced to pay. Back when I was paying for a better quality stream and the 2 bonus feeds, I was happy to pay a subscription fee to MLG. Now that 80% of their content is pay-only... I just wait for the VODs or skip it entirely and watch youtube casters like Husky instead. And on top of that, what VODs they do post are interspersed with LOUD and randomly-timed ads right in the middle of matches... makes me even less willing to support them now.
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Great post. Your hard work is certainly appreciated. I loved the part about blizzard eventually sorting things out in BW and WC3 with the expansions. We'll have to wait and see where hots goes and try to care a little less
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Grubby always good analysis <3
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Sweden5554 Posts
On October 19 2012 15:26 Grubby wrote:5. Encyclopedia Galactica: Liquipedia- Isaac Asimov himself would be proud indeed: the Encyclopedia Galactica for SC2 eSports is being developed, anthologised and treasured by the population itself.
- There is nothing like Liquipedia around as far as a collection of coverage of tournaments goes. The only thing that could make Liquipedia better, is by being even better and more well rounded than it already is. It almost seems too much to ask, but I think it's only a matter of time that this will happen. What am I getting at?
- For example: interaction to be possible on Liquipedia items (comments).
- For Liquipedia to get "Liquipedia TV" which is a show that would combine all the results of the past week into a nice consumable TV show
- For Liquipedia to start listing all of the replays & VOD's for all the events consistently.
- The entire community wants a one-stop place for finding everything about every tournament.
- For Television, we've got the TV guide. For internet, we have Google. For eSports, there is Liquipedia. I used to think that it would be enough if Tournament X or Organization Y had a personal TV guide/schedule for their own programs, but this isn't enough. There would still be 10 different TV guides to keep up with - an impossible feat for your average Joe.
- The more people contribute to Liquipedia, the better. It requires passion and hard work, but it will be much appreciated. If it requires funds, I'm sure TV guides also earn money from the TV channels eventually for helping consumers consume the products(their channels).
- Alternatively, I'm sure many people would feel grateful enough to Liquipedia to donate. I just looked for a donate button myself.
- NOTE: It is possible that we might other objective media besides TL/Liquipedia; in fact, it is likely. I don't see it happening yet, though, because there are no financial incentives to do so yet. If running a team is a hard way to earn money, then imagine running an active, comprehensive, independent news / coverage website. Our scene is growing, but it is still kinda small in the sense that we need a lot of volunteer work. ESFI seems to do decent enough work, but I don't know how many people visit them.
[...]
- Warning: contributing may lead to satisfaction.
So many ideas, I'll tackle them from top to bottom in order.
- Thank you. (I think, I've not read enough Asimov, sadly)
- I too agree that Liquipedia is great but that it has the potential for so much much more.
- We do have comments but they're a bit hidden as in so much they're called "discussion" or "talk-pages" you can find them in the top bar of tabs next to "page" where you can leave comments about specific pages, or to specific contributors.
However Wikipedia has recently started doing a feedback thing where anyone can - without logging in - write a (feedback) comment about the page and rate it etc. I've been starting to look in to that already and think having something like that could be rather beneficial. There's another thing where you can make the contributors' talk pages look and work more like the wall on facebook.
- We'll put that into consideration but ideally we'd need some people with experience from production to step up and help out and do the lion's share. We do wikis well (if I may say so myself), but we don't have much experience with doing weekly shows of any kind really.
- Replays are not something as many people consume but if there are people willing to help with putting in replays, we'll help out with teaching how and even make some changes to the structures to make it simpler than it is currently. For VODs all the stuff is in place as far as I'm aware, it's just about people contributing. More on this further down.
- I think we're pretty much that already, very little information is readily available and not on Liquipedia.
- We have a huge advantage over all the individual tournament organizers' own pages, because we have 1 interface for people to learn, instead of having to learn a new one for each organizer. We also provide much more readily accessible information about the players histories, teams and previous tournaments not from the same organizer. I think this is why Liquipedia will be the best alternative, the scope is just bigger.
- As far as I've been able to tell about 0.3% of people who use Liquipedia to look up information actually edit Liquipedia, that is about 3 people in a thousand. Sure there's about 200 000 who use Liquipedia per month giving us 600 or so people who contribute, which is great. But I sometimes imagine what would happen if 1% would contribute and we'd have 2 000 editors active in a month:
- Increased depth for every kind of article.
- More research done on the past of people and organizations.
- Better writing over all with more people fixing errors and making the grammar easy to grasp and hard to misinterpret.
- Better strategy sections with more guides and build orders.
- Better help pages so that the threshold to start contributing to that which you would like to is as low as it can be.
- Better connections between different articles.
- Better use of the category pages making it a viable option if you want to find out more about all Swedish Terrans (for example).
- More up to date recent tournament result page.
- Improved layout on all the articles, more images (used correctly, where we have the right to use the image (Not just random pictures found on the internet that you don't know the source or haven't gotten permission for Liquipedia to use).
- Adding well thought out additions to the javascript to make the site even easier to use and less cluttered.
- Redo templates and css structures to make the wikis work as well as they can on mobile devices.
I can just keep going, there are so many aspects in which Liquipedia has not reached it's full potential. And due to the way a wiki works the best/simplest solution is usually to throw more man power on it to increase the value.
- Liquipedia is part of TeamLiquid.net and as such we follow the basic principles of TL, such as no donation button. If you want to support Liquipedia but you don't want to help out with editing, then turning off any ad block program is one way to do it. Another is potentially for Liquipedia to get items in the TL store. But seriously the best way to donate, is to donate a little bit of time and effort.
- Liquipedia tries to have some of the same ideas about being an encyclopaedia that say Wikipedia has, in that we want things to be sourced to some external source of Liquipedia, something that has gone through an editorial process ideally, so we like more good objective media to write about things because then we can use that to create even better content on Liquipedia.
- So true. Feels really good to just help out and support something you enjoy and get a lot of positive feedback back.
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summerloud's response to this post:
whats with people talking about them in 3rd person? first i read that thread by sase now grubby. you guys do realize that the author of a post is displayed, right?
typical case of USI (unwarranted self-importance)
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that was a great read, i agree with everything grubby mentioned here !
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EPT
