• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:02
CEST 11:02
KST 18:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview17Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event13Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster12Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Hybrid setting keep reverting. HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Unit and Spell Similarities BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
NBA General Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 655 users

Grubby's Manifesto on SC2 / eSports - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Joroh
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom9 Posts
October 19 2012 14:02 GMT
#101
Artosis giving us faith on the game side. Grubby saying how it should be past just playing. Love it.
"That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger!"
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
October 19 2012 14:10 GMT
#102
On October 19 2012 15:57 conut wrote:
Grubby's Manifesto on SC…
SaSes 99 cents about the…
The "Do your part for SC…
Slayers to disband
The Starcraft Crisis
Ryung to Axiom & MMA dec

What is going on with the sc2 community lately, every seems to think the world is falling apart. But yea i do agree with pretty much everything i see, we dont need auto mine blizzard.


nothing is falling apart. People have simply said "enough is enough" and are letting out what they've been repressing for years. It's time blizzard learns.
The Notorious Winkles
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
October 19 2012 14:15 GMT
#103
I might be warned because my post is slightly off topic, but, damn, you're great Grubby !
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
October 19 2012 14:23 GMT
#104
The OP is an extremely useful posting. A balanced, but concise view at the state of the community and the game.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
kiy0
Profile Joined August 2010
Portugal593 Posts
October 19 2012 14:26 GMT
#105
<3 Grubby

"If the game is not difficult enough, the fans will not respect the players' skill." -> My exact thoughts about LoL :D
Wisemen speak when they have something to say. Others speak when they have to say something.
Imzoo
Profile Joined June 2012
132 Posts
October 19 2012 14:26 GMT
#106
The very nice thing about posts like this one is they are made by pro
markus85rock
Profile Joined November 2011
20 Posts
October 19 2012 14:31 GMT
#107
On October 19 2012 15:29 Son of Gnome wrote:
Great job Grubby I totally read it in your voice btw ^^

Me too!

I think there are some great thoughts on this! Grubby hwiting for SC2!
Sqorpion
Profile Joined October 2011
Denmark384 Posts
October 19 2012 14:46 GMT
#108
Awesome post! Really nice work Hope blizzard everyone - organizers, blizzard, community - reads this.
"Until the very, very top, in almost anything all that matters, is how much work you put in. The only problem is that most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for." - Greg "IdrA" Fields
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 19 2012 14:49 GMT
#109
On October 19 2012 23:10 rysecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 15:57 conut wrote:
Grubby's Manifesto on SC…
SaSes 99 cents about the…
The "Do your part for SC…
Slayers to disband
The Starcraft Crisis
Ryung to Axiom & MMA dec

What is going on with the sc2 community lately, every seems to think the world is falling apart. But yea i do agree with pretty much everything i see, we dont need auto mine blizzard.


nothing is falling apart. People have simply said "enough is enough" and are letting out what they've been repressing for years. It's time blizzard learns.


probably everyone saw/heard about lol s2 finals and freaked the fuck out that their esport was losing.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
October 19 2012 14:54 GMT
#110
oh this post is part of why i love you grubby
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 14:55:39
October 19 2012 14:54 GMT
#111
On October 19 2012 23:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 23:10 rysecake wrote:
On October 19 2012 15:57 conut wrote:
Grubby's Manifesto on SC…
SaSes 99 cents about the…
The "Do your part for SC…
Slayers to disband
The Starcraft Crisis
Ryung to Axiom & MMA dec

What is going on with the sc2 community lately, every seems to think the world is falling apart. But yea i do agree with pretty much everything i see, we dont need auto mine blizzard.


nothing is falling apart. People have simply said "enough is enough" and are letting out what they've been repressing for years. It's time blizzard learns.


probably everyone saw/heard about lol s2 finals and freaked the fuck out that their esport was losing.

I don't think many people cared about the lol s2 finals. The only effect it had might be pushing destiny to make his post which alongside the slayers drama is creating the panic-frenzy which is a good thing. Some people are saying these type of threads are becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy but honestly this is exactly what Sc2 needs. Its a do or die type moment because there is a lot of issues with sc2 and if the red alarm sirens are not ringing in the blizzard offices after this fiasco, blizzard and its games deserve to die off.
Velinath
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States694 Posts
October 19 2012 14:58 GMT
#112
This is good. I like what I have just read.
D4V3Z02
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany693 Posts
October 19 2012 15:02 GMT
#113
Thats a good and productive post, Sase's looked more like an Avilo :D
http://www.twitch.tv/d4v3z02 all your base are belong to overlord
Koesader
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands424 Posts
October 19 2012 15:04 GMT
#114
You should pin this on the door of the church Blizzard HQ
Liquid'TaeJa - Grubby - MVPMarineKing - Liquid'Ret - AxCranK - RedBull.Bomber ~~~ Are You Ready For Bombing?
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
October 19 2012 15:05 GMT
#115
Grubby laid everything out in such a nice and comprehensive way. He is so dreamy and smart. I like the notion that tournaments need to develop distinct identities, so you can follow the storylines that you want as a fan.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9153 Posts
October 19 2012 15:06 GMT
#116
On October 19 2012 16:53 JackReacher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 15:41 Grubby wrote:
On October 19 2012 15:40 itsjustatank wrote:
» Without a governing body, there can be bullying, or senseless competition over a date which ends up hurting both tournaments.


Isolating the free market as a problem is pretty hilarious. If companies cannot survive, they have an inferior product and deserve to get bounced out of the scene. Keeping them around through the establishment of a cartel creates a disincentive to innovate.

» A governing body would require authoritative power over all tournament organizers in order to work. They would also need financial stability (to pay out the people who have the hard work of keeping tournaments in line, and for other reasons), and all this body must be kept objective & fair, mediating and reaching compromises which everyone can be equally unhappy with (the golden rule of compromise). I think I don't need to tell you how hard it would to found an organization that has all these attributes, no matter how much we seem to want one - and therefore how long it'll probably still take for one to appear.


This is illegal in multiple jurisdictions, such as the United States and the European Union. And before you say that real sports organizations exist, you have to understand that they receive statutory exemptions to antitrust law through years of lobbying and billions of dollars of marketing that ESPORTS can't match.


Which is why I said finances are important. As I think shone through, I consider it unlikely that this would happen. I didn't know about the illegal/exemption thing though, that's interesting. Though I have to say, that eSports doesn't necessarily go by the same laws that we recognize in the Real World.

It's not illegal if that governing organization is Blizzard itself, using it's intellectual property rights to use of its game as leverage to force organizers to cooperate.

There is something I have been thinking about and considering lately, and the more I think about it, the more certain I am that this could possibly be THE solution to the problems people are seeing with the SC2 scene and tournament saturation.


While interesting, Blizzard cannot regulate much more than giving companies the license to operate the game. If they become overbearing in their requirements and restrictions, these organizations will simply drop StarCraft competition and move to a non-Blizzard game.
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
October 19 2012 15:07 GMT
#117
It's interesting to see how many of the issues that Grubby identifies are echoed in Gretorp and Filter's posts. Really interesting read, and I agree that we should keep hoping. I mean, Blizzard did get rid of the warhound and reintroduce the carrier, two moves for which I had very little hope.
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Adron
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands839 Posts
October 19 2012 15:13 GMT
#118
Top notch post grubby!
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
October 19 2012 15:17 GMT
#119
Thank you for everything you do in the name of ESPORTS Grubby! <3
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
October 19 2012 15:18 GMT
#120
About number 3....do we really think that people are watching stuff they don't like?

Also, watching IS contributing.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
09:00
SOOPer7s #48
SHIN vs ByuN
sooper7s
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 7062
Zeus 787
Larva 562
Leta 253
TY 169
Yoon 45
scan(afreeca) 30
sorry 29
zelot 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
[ Show more ]
SilentControl 9
ivOry 5
eros_byul 0
PianO 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4219
XaKoH 467
Fuzer 239
XcaliburYe180
Counter-Strike
summit1g8499
Stewie2K1006
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King128
Westballz80
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor309
Other Games
Happy390
singsing213
Pyrionflax148
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream23070
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2278
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
1h 58m
sOs vs uThermal
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs HeRoMaRinE
Ryung vs Babymarine
BSL: ProLeague
8h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV European League
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
HSC XXVII
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.