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Filter
Canada620 Posts
Looks like some solid steps in the right direction, the addition of racial and map stats is long overdue and good to see. It also looks like there is some sort of in game leveling system based on the party chat profiles, that holds some promise if executed properly. The addition of unranked games is cool too, let people play and improve without the fear of screwing up their ladder ranking. No mention of clan support is disappointing though. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:28 Filter wrote: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6298733/Heart_of_the_Swarm_-_UI_Update-19_10_2012 Looks like some solid steps in the right direction, the addition of racial and map stats is long overdue and good to see. It also looks like there is some sort of in game leveling system based on the party chat profiles, that holds some promise if executed properly. The addition of unranked games is cool too, let people play and improve without the fear of screwing up their ladder ranking. No mention of clan support is disappointing though. Clan support is one of the major fuck ups of WoL. I mean, 2 years since launch!? Wtf were they thinking to say they would implement it and not do it for 2 years. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:22 ImNightmare wrote: Just to be clear, there is a big difference between providing evidence like the earth revolves around the sun and moba has depth evidence. One has solid evidence (I.e Eyesight,calculations of stars and the planets), the other is just what you think because of what you see and perceived. (I.e since there are many heroes there are more depth when you mix their skills and such) You have loop holes in your theory which isn't back up by solid facts and that is not the same as solid evidence. Its fine defending Moba, I enjoy Dota2 and LoL, but don't try and make your reasoning look as if its undeniable proof when there is a lot of space for debates. You clearly haven't followed DOTA and haven't invested any time into researching it's history. It's not an opinion. The FACT is the metagame of DOTA/DOTA2 has seen shittons of change throughout the years and it's STILL CHANGING. These are elements we can clearly observe and track. Where are you getting the idea that this is perception and not reality? Tune into SL3 and the solid evidence will be right under your nose buddy. | ||
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Ethoex
United States164 Posts
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:35 SupLilSon wrote: You clearly haven't followed DOTA and haven't invested any time into researching it's history. It's not an opinion. The FACT is the metagame of DOTA/DOTA2 has seen shittons of change throughout the years and it's STILL CHANGING. These are elements we can clearly observe and track. Where are you getting the idea that this is perception and not reality? Tune into SL3 and the solid evidence will be right under your nose buddy. Again, you are just being aggressive with your ideology. You might want to chill out and realise I am actually agreeing dota is a deep game. But your opinions are not facts, they are mere bias opinions to make the game you play look good. Once again, I agree dota is a deep game but what you said are opinions, not facts. Chill out on the anger before you kill a animal. Edit: Using sc2 with your evidence. Its like saying sc2 has infinite depth because there is a number of possibilities of mixing up different numbers of units hence the game is different. Like instead of 50 marines and 8 medivacs, you have 40 marines and 10 medivacs and that makes it deeper so your evidence contradicts what you say if you apply it to sc2 when you said and I quote "The reality is DOTA and DOTA2 have more depth to them than SC2 could ever hope to achieve in it's current state" Those are your words hence you just blow your own supposed "evidence." | ||
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Mastertouch
United States136 Posts
Some months had like 3-4 major events, this is too much. That would be like tennis having 4 grand slams a month. This makes grands slams less hype. Blizzard NEEDS to take control of the tourney scene. Have something like a 9 month regular season with the 10th month being the championship each month in the regular season will have several REGIONAL Events (think the continental WCS Events) that feed into a MAJOR (WORLD) Event every 2 months. Then the last month (The championship) will have the biggest prize pool. Basically expand even more on the WCS ideas while utilizing orgs/companies like MLG, Dreamhack, ASUS, IEM, ect ect to host the regional and Major events. But actually have the orgs/companies only host 1 tournament. not 3 tournaments at one place. Mockup for BLIZZARD SC2 WORLD TOUR 2013 Feb 1st Weekend - NA Regional (MLG HOST) 2nd Weekend - EU Regional (Dreamhack HOST) 3rd Weekend - ASIA Regional (IEM HOST) 4th Weekend - PAC Regional (ACL HOST) and SA Regional (IEM HOST) March 2nd Weekend - MAJOR #1 (IPL HOST) April 1st Weekend - EU Regional (IEM HOST) 2nd Weekend - ASIA Regional (CPL HOST) 3rd Weekend - NA Regional (IPL HOST) 4th Weekend - PAC Regional (IEM HOST) ect ect ect for the next 7 months players gain points, blah blah to get to that grand final (Blizzard joining the Million dollar prize pool event club!) Fix the game, make it fun for the people that aren't going to be competing. | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
On October 18 2012 14:29 kill619 wrote: I'll never understand how one team disbanding, an expansion that's very early in beta(relative to when it's actually going to be released) not being perfect, and three reddit post in a day warrants so much panic and distress in a community so quickly. On one level, the panic and distress is groupthink. On another level, clearly there must have been an underlying problem that has been brooding for a long period of time. Now that the floodgates are open, people are starting to realize their suspicions and are voicing their concerns - concerns that should have emerged months ago. | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 19 2012 12:10 fighter2_40 wrote: On one level, the panic and distress is groupthink. On another level, clearly there must have been an underlying problem that has been brooding for a long period of time. Now that the floodgates are open, people are starting to realize their suspicions and are voicing their concerns - concerns that should have emerged months ago. Not at all, this is all a false impression of opinion. 98% of people who post on these threads are the same people who have hated the game every step of the way, it is the same people who made threads about sc2 dying during early WoL beta. These people live to vent over how the way sc2 works does not agree with their vision of it and whenever there is an incident that spawns some discontent they all come crawling out again. Sadly, the vast majority of moderately happy players who only have minor concerns about the game but are rational about it are not posting on these threads, they are playing the game, watching streams and having a life. | ||
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BalanceFx
United States72 Posts
On October 19 2012 13:23 VanGarde wrote: Not at all, this is all a false impression of opinion. 98% of people who post on these threads are the same people who have hated the game every step of the way, it is the same people who made threads about sc2 dying during early WoL beta. These people live to vent over how the way sc2 works does not agree with their vision of it and whenever there is an incident that spawns some discontent they all come crawling out again. Sadly, the vast majority of moderately happy players who only have minor concerns about the game but are rational about it are not posting on these threads, they are playing the game, watching streams and having a life. An interesting argument but League is played at all the nerd hangouts I attend and is the most watched twitch event and is played by all the gamers I know where SC2 is frankly feared and just left to the elites... And the elites could probably make more money in LoL etc... I will buy HoTS and I think LoL is a horrible game but I know I am the minority and most RTS gamers I know play LoL or HoN and think SC2 is a dinosaur. To each their own. I love the game and HoTS will be exciting for me and most other hard core SC fans but not sure how they plan to compete in their genre as a whole with an expansion that does little to reinvigorate the base of RTS players and instead caters to just its fans... | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 19 2012 13:38 BalanceFx wrote: An interesting argument but League is played at all the nerd hangouts I attend and is the most watched twitch event and is played by all the gamers I know where SC2 is frankly feared and just left to the elites... And the elites could probably make more money in LoL etc... I will buy HoTS and I think LoL is a horrible game but I know I am the minority and most RTS gamers I know play LoL or HoN and think SC2 is a dinosaur. To each their own. I love the game and HoTS will be exciting for me and most other hard core SC fans but not sure how they plan to compete in their genre as a whole with an expansion that does little to reinvigorate the base of RTS players and instead caters to just its fans... It is a good thing then that the people you know personally are not a representable data sample. I don't doubt at all that LoL might be a more played game, but the mistake people make is thinking that player numbers = e-sports success. sc2 does in no way need to have the biggest player base to be a successful e-sports game. Hell if that was the deciding factor then why did WoW arena fail? There are so many other aspects to make a successful e-sports game. The most important is that it needs to be possible to enjoy the game as a viewer only without playing the game. Sc2 has multiple viewers who do not play the game. I doubt LoL have the same thing to the same extent. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
Life has a different style from Nestea has a different style from DRG has a different style from Stephano MKP has a different style from MVP has a different style from Ryung has a different style from Thorzain MC has a different style from Parting has a different style from Hero has a different style from SKT's Rain A huge majority of the top players right now have unique play-styles that have a variety of builds. I agree that perhaps maps are getting to be a bit too big resulting in 8 minutes of filler time in a majority of cases, but the game is anything but stale. Viewer numbers on Twitch are probably just because there is professional SC2 all day every day for the last 2 years AND you can watch VOD's. GSL VOD's have a pretty consistent near 100k views and have since may of 2011. Definite stagnation, but I attribute that partly because you have to pay to watch and because of the amount that is out there. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 19 2012 13:56 TheRabidDeer wrote: The SC2 crisis is a bit of a farce. And the games strategies are anything but completely stale. Life has a different style from Nestea has a different style from DRG has a different style from Stephano MKP has a different style from MVP has a different style from Ryung has a different style from Thorzain MC has a different style from Parting has a different style from Hero has a different style from SKT's Rain A huge majority of the top players right now have unique play-styles that have a variety of builds. I agree that perhaps maps are getting to be a bit too big resulting in 8 minutes of filler time in a majority of cases, but the game is anything but stale. Viewer numbers on Twitch are probably just because there is professional SC2 all day every day for the last 2 years AND you can watch VOD's. GSL VOD's have a pretty consistent near 100k views and have since may of 2011. Definite stagnation, but I attribute that partly because you have to pay to watch and because of the amount that is out there. Yes the only relevant data when it comes to viewers would be to be able to see data of total individual viewers of anything over a month. Since sc2 has so many events the numbers will get diluted by some people only watching IPL, some only watching NASL etc. | ||
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thepuppyassassin
900 Posts
If Starcraft pro-scene fails, I firmly believe that the development team will absolutely believe that they did everything they could and will refuse to acknowledge that they are even remotely culpable. | ||
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Bart
494 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On October 18 2012 14:08 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Starcraft 2 best game in e-sports period. it's all in Blizzards court now, we can put as much pressure on them as possible but in the end it comes down to them. We just have to keep watching and giving our money to the tournements. In Blizzard we trust. So on one side you say that "Starcraft 2 is the best game in e-sports period." and on the other side you say that "it's all in Blizzard's court now"? Only one can be true, because if Starcraft really was that good as you claim Blizzard wouldnt need to act and if they need to act the game shouldnt be "the best". Choose! There are structural flaws in the game AND in the UI which limit its potential. 1. The structural flaws within the game are pretty big, but many of them can be attributed to "advancement in technology" (the usual axcuse), but they totally disregard the fact that limitations are always a chance to become creative AND the fact that "advancements in technology" can go too far for a human to cope/compete with. An example from the real world would be computer programs which do split-second trading on the stock market without any interaction from humans. Basically it boild down to: There is no "room for error" in SC2 due to tightly packed balls of armies and "perfect" unit movement and the super high speed of the game due to fast reproduction of units and lack of solid defensive structures. Just compare a bunker in BW with a bunker in SC2 BW: 350 health, 1 armor SC2: 400 health, 1 armor Now compare that with the amount of attacking units you have in each games PER AREA and you notice that there will be a lot more of them in SC2 (for ranged units) due to the mechanics mentioned above. This makes it perfectly clear that SC2 is a very very very aggressive game with no defenders advantage intended. Another "structural flaw" is the differently weighed production speed boosts for the three races, which basically pushes players into producing units of type X a lot more, because they are easier to reproduce (after some losses in a battle), because the opponent will be doing his best to remax ASAP and would overrun you if you dont have an equal number of units FAST. This is a major reason why mech isnt viable, because the core units can only be reproduced rather slowly. This also makes it perfectly clear that SC2 is all about SPEED and AGGRESSION. In a sense it has become a "real time action game" (RTA) instead of a "real time strategy game" (RTS). Tactical play has been "advanced out" of the game and that is terrible, even though they put in things like the Nydus Worm and a Terran Building Armor upgrade to actually promote things like this. Sadly that isnt enough, because they dont understand the "dps from a tight mass of units" problem. 2. The flaws in the UI have been moaned about and ignored by Blizzard ever since the beginning. The only thing the community achieved was to stop Blizzard from merging the UI too much with Facebook (for free advertising for them). That was only the smallest problem. | ||
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NoBanMeAgain
United States194 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
I was hoping the release of HOTS might herald a fresh start, but it seems like Blizzard is just content with adding some frosting on top of WoL for their first expansion. Frankly, I don't think they have the resources nor the inclination to do what needs to be done. That or they still don't have a clue. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
There are too many tournaments, too much drama and I'm not paying to watch what is likely going to be a shitty game. Once they put streams behind a paywall they effectively killed the game. The only way a game can survive is from the casual players keeping interest in the game. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE GAME HAS TO BE EZPZ TO APPEAL TO THEM. This just means you don't alienate them, but you show them high level play with good commentary so they can continue playing and wishing they could be that good. You know how many bad players are on LoL right now because of the finals that just happened getting people interested in the game again? If you give people a good game to spectate (easy to understand // distinguish), make it free for them to watch, they will continue to be interested in it. Sponsors are only interested when people watch. Why create obstacles to people watching? Then, why does the community that does stick around drive the sponsors away? Unless you have a model where people are okay with repeatedly paying money, then sponsors are the only way your game can stay afloat. | ||
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czylu
477 Posts
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