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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
Anybody who watched BW is likely to watch/be interested in watching SC2. There are a lot of 30+ people in SC2. To get broad interest we at least need to wait like 10 years. Anyway, Blizzard should consider a F2Play model. This is probably more important than tweaking the game | ||
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Z.Aether
Spain37 Posts
On October 18 2012 14:20 pmp10 wrote: I used to think SC2 is heading in the normal direction with expansions. Now I'm beginning to think that community is hell bend on killing it off even before HotS. Me too. I think people its panicking for nothing. LoL its free. That starcrat could release 3 starter editions one for terran one for toss and one for zerg. Yes they could and maybe that could help to get more people playing it cause "hey i can try the race i want for free". But all this topics attacking Blizz for the HoTS BETA are unnecesary. I remark the word BETAcause people seem to have forget what a beta is. The beta its for making suggestions, asking for things we want and testing the new units. People panicking like crazy cause the tempest has these range or because the oracle dont has this spell or that unit dont make the game as funny as i want or because blizzard has said nothing yet about new content and modes on multiplayer is just nonsense. With such an inmature behaviour we dont help blizzard to make HoTS the game we all want. Now we have to be calm, test the things, make suggestions of changes supported by good reasons and demand new content for multiplayer and that kind of social aspects that would make people to log in as some pple demand on the english battle.net forum. Overreacting for every little patch of the beta has no logic. They are not definitive patchs tons of things will change and if we do as i suggested before Blizzard will take care of our needs and our points. We have the opportunity to help Blizz to make a really good game but instead of that we are attacking them and Starcraft2 for free. If this hysterya continues it wont matter if lol or dota are free cause we will kill sc2 ourselves. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:06 Z.Aether wrote: Me too. I think people its panicking for nothing. LoL its free. That starcrat could release 3 starter editions one for terran one for toss and one for zerg. Yes they could and maybe that could help to get more people playing it cause "hey i can try the race i want for free". But all this topics attacking Blizz for the HoTS BETA are unnecesary. I remark the word BETAcause people seem to have forget what a beta is. The beta its for making suggestions, asking for things we want and testing the new units. People panicking like crazy cause the tempest has these range or because the oracle dont has this spell or that unit dont make the game as funny as i want or because blizzard has said nothing yet about new content and modes on multiplayer is just nonsense. With such an inmature behaviour we dont help blizzard to make HoTS the game we all want. Now we have to be calm, test the things, make suggestions of changes supported by good reasons and demand new content for multiplayer and that kind of social aspects that would make people to log in as some pple demand on the english battle.net forum. Overreacting for every little patch of the beta has no logic. They are not definitive patchs tons of things will change and if we do as i suggested before Blizzard will take care of our needs and our points. We have the opportunity to help Blizz to make a really good game but instead of that we are attacking them and Starcraft2 for free. If this hysterya continues it wont matter if lol or dota are free cause we will kill sc2 ourselves. At the end of the day SC2 is just a video game like LoL and DoTA. I mean if it dies it dies, it's only a game, people take these way too seriously. They act like as if SC2 is their girlfriend that refuses to put out and will dump her for that slutty LoL girl that's been around that block if SC2 doesn't wear the crotchless panties on their next date. Jeez people if SC2 really grinds your gear that much then just go play LoL/DoTA2, go outside, go do something else, you're just making this painful for yourself, really. | ||
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Leru
Romania257 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:06 Z.Aether wrote: Me too. I think people its panicking for nothing. LoL its free. That starcrat could release 3 starter editions one for terran one for toss and one for zerg. Yes they could and maybe that could help to get more people playing it cause "hey i can try the race i want for free". But all this topics attacking Blizz for the HoTS BETA are unnecesary. I remark the word [u]BETA Mr. 16 posts, please stop derailing the thread. The main point is not really attacking blizz. Actually the OP has said that it's fine with the current game but would like some improvements unrelated to balance. Go watch the video FFS! On October 19 2012 04:14 ref4 wrote: Jeez people if SC2 really grinds your gear that much then just go play LoL/DoTA2, go outside, go do something else, you're just making this painful for yourself, really. You have a narrow perception about things . This thread is about how the Sc2 devs can learn from the other games's progress and implement some of the features not about whining that unit x is OP or something . | ||
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
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Kilby
Finland1069 Posts
That is why Usain Bolt gets multiple times more viewers for the competition he participates in than the next best guy at spinting. At the moment is it so ambiguous regarding gaming about who the best RTS gamers are and what game they are playing that it splits the audience. Especially since the new games have not been established for so long (obviously). If SC2 could somehow evolve to the point that the overall consensus would be that OK, the best gamers simply are the ones who play SC2 at highest level and that's it, that would gain much bigger attention and publicity for SC2. And that could actually happen without SC2 having been the most popular game all the time. It would only have to survive in the long run. Being able to claimg that best RTS gamers are SC2 gamers is not something that would happen overnight. It is something that would require the top players to evolve so far beyond the casual gamer that they would simply be unthouchable by any casual master player, so much so that they would be in a league of their own. Similarly to chess Grandmasters being different from Masters. You would simply have zero chances against a pro when you were lucky enough to play one in TL Attack. On the other hand, we did see this happen with BW. But nowadays that scenario will probably require so much time and effort that it is very unlikely to happen within any few years even if the game remained unchanged as it is, which it won't. | ||
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coldSnaH
50 Posts
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Butterednuts
United States859 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:25 bri9and wrote: people want games like LoL where you can faceroll your way to the top of every game with a minor amount of understanding of hero mechanics. Something tells me that you have never played ANY moba-styled games. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:02 Schnullerbacke13 wrote: Moba's are missing depth to keep up long term interest/motivation. Additionally its much harder to watch/understand for non-players. It has zero chance to extend beyond the players community. Building up an e-sports game is a long term process requiring several generations of gamers, a complex game with a high skill ceiling. Anybody who watched BW is likely to watch/be interested in watching SC2. There are a lot of 30+ people in SC2. To get broad interest we at least need to wait like 10 years. Anyway, Blizzard should consider a F2Play model. This is probably more important than tweaking the game I hesitate to add post count to this thread, but anyway... On the time scale you're thinking about, won't the price of the game come down a lot anyway? Of course participation you can win now counts for a lot, but it's also asking a lot to just completely restructure the business model. | ||
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Rasmudd
Sweden127 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:02 Schnullerbacke13 wrote: Moba's are missing depth to keep up long term interest/motivation. Additionally its much harder to watch/understand for non-players. It has zero chance to extend beyond the players community. Building up an e-sports game is a long term process requiring several generations of gamers, a complex game with a high skill ceiling. Anybody who watched BW is likely to watch/be interested in watching SC2. There are a lot of 30+ people in SC2. To get broad interest we at least need to wait like 10 years. Anyway, Blizzard should consider a F2Play model. This is probably more important than tweaking the game I watched SC:BW for a long time, then SC2 from release to a month ago. Now I watch dota 2 instead. More depth in Dota 2 than current sc2 meta with more interesting and strong abilities that remind me of SC:BW. But to me the most important factor is that it is entertaining and the way the pick / ban phase works you get a lot of variation in the matches and stuff. So I'm done with SC2 unless there is a positive shift with Hots I might check back. SC2 still has the best esports personalities but tbh, the game is more important to me. | ||
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:34 Butterednuts wrote: Something tells me that you have never played ANY moba-styled games. Not true.. I had to play LoL to find out where all of my buddies who failed at SC2 went.. I gave it a honest college try because there must be something that kept them coming back.. But in the end, the reality of it was that they can't handle the stress and learning curve of SC2 and decided to play a more user friendly game. Ironically, the worst SC2 players of my group became some of the best LoL players.. So, yes, I have played LoL but I can't for the life of me understand why someone would play it over SC2. I guess what it comes down to is this.. LoL is easier to master and this day and age that is what people want.. | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:47 bri9and wrote: Not true.. I had to play LoL to find out where all of my buddies who failed at SC2 went.. I gave it a honest college try because there must be something that kept them coming back.. But in the end, the reality of it was that they can't handle the stress and learning curve of SC2 and decided to play a more user friendly game. Ironically, the worst SC2 players of my group became some of the best LoL players.. So, yes, I have played LoL but I can't for the life of me understand why someone would play it over SC2. I guess what it comes down to is this.. LoL is easier to master and this day and age that is what people want.. unless you've played dota or hon before S2 ruined it, stop acting like you know a damn thing about the 'moba' genre. fucking lol lmao. lol is to dota what sc2 is to bw. Dota and bw are the real skill games with actual exciting play. Lol is way to easy and too error-proof (gotta hit a thousand spells before you can kill someone). Sc2 game is incredibly boring and only shows a glimps of skill compared to broodwar (marine micro is about the only thing sc2 has going for it) | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
Listen all you so called professionals. Being pro is more then getting paid to play. It is a state of being and an attitude. I don't want to EVER here that sc2 is dieing, just because YOU have lost the passion to play. There are THOUSANDS of nerds who dream of playing sc2 and going pro, and would replace you in a second if they could. All this doom talk is shattering the dreams of many of these amateurs, who thank the sponsors, attend MLGs, and watch your streams! If you lost the passion to play. keep the bashing to your self, and mentor someone( or many (Just do something productive and STFU)). Additionally, and most importantly, act like a professional, and keep the dream alive even if you don't believe in it. There is no guarantee that any game after sc2 will be better. | ||
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Yosi
Poland49 Posts
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:55 wcr.4fun wrote: unless you've played dota or hon before S2 ruined it, stop acting like you know a damn thing about the 'moba' genre. fucking lol lmao. lol is to dota what sc2 is to bw. Dota and bw are the real skill games with actual exciting play. Lol is way to easy and too error-proof (gotta hit a thousand spells before you can kill someone). Sc2 game is incredibly boring and only shows a glimps of skill compared to broodwar (marine micro is about the only thing sc2 has going for it) Your bias towards SC2 is almost as transparent as your motivations for playing DOTA. SC2's skill ceiling is far and away higher than any level of MOBA competition and to deny that shows ignorance and a denial of the truth. Marine micro is the only thing SC2 has going for it? Really? That is an interesting position, but one I'm sure you will hold on to as your fire up your MOBA game and faceroll yourself to the top tier of players. Face it, the SC2 pros at the top would destroy your top DOTA players if they didn't get bored out of their mind while playing it. Flash agrees: http://i.qkme.me/3opksh.jpg | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
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MugenXBanksy
United States479 Posts
On October 19 2012 04:25 bri9and wrote: DOTA, DOTA 2, and LoL are a joke.. The fact that they are gaining in popularity says nothing about SC2, but a lot about the population of this planet.. People don't want difficult games.. games that require high degrees of skill.. people want games like LoL where you can faceroll your way to the top of every game with a minor amount of understanding of hero mechanics. SC2 is an art form and games like DOTA and LoL will never come close.. It is sad, but that is what we are up against.. Na'Vi and Dendi is the only reason to watch Dota/2 period. But other then that mobas are insanely boring or we're farming for 10-20mins of the game oh WAIT OFMG EPIC GANK or that WAS A FAIL GANK BRO GET ON MY LEVEL SON or the carry's farmed/fed gg son. Granted watching a code s level player playing some no name is just as boring or in most cases sad to watch. Much rather watch SC2 everyday. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On October 19 2012 05:04 bri9and wrote: Your bias towards SC2 is almost as transparent as your motivations for playing DOTA. SC2's skill ceiling is far and away higher than any level of MOBA competition and to deny that shows ignorance and a denial of the truth. Marine micro is the only thing SC2 has going for it? Really? That is an interesting position, but one I'm sure you will hold on to as your fire up your MOBA game and faceroll yourself to the top tier of players. Face it, the SC2 pros at the top would destroy your top DOTA players if they didn't get bored out of their mind while playing it. Flash agrees: http://i.qkme.me/3opksh.jpg If they could actually settle a team yeah.... What you fail to understand is that a skilled DotA team is far more than the sum of each player's individual skills, that is what mostly makes the higher echelon of skill ceiling, and even within individual skill there is a HUGE, GIGANTIC difference between "good" guys (akin to masters in SC2) and pro level players. You know nothing about Dota, just face it and stop talking about things you don't know. DotA and SC2 are very different games requiring very different skillsets, it makes no sense to compare them. SC2 is of course extremely difficult, everyone knows that, but the way you talk about DotA is evidence as to how ignorant you are about this game. Popularity is an entirely different thing. You are more likely to watch something you actually play, and having DotA-like games in general being more "fun" to play at a casual level means a lot more people will play, and hence, watch, there is nothing more to it. The reason SC2 is dwindling in popularity is not because of how difficult it is, but rather how bad of a social experience it is (mind you, I play most of my games completely alone, and personally don't care, but this issue is evident). Most gamers nowadays go to the internet for a social thing, this is also a big part of why D3's popularity falls. Battle.net 2.0 has failed to deliver the social experience most people want out of their online games, DotA-likes are social by nature, which makes them more popular at base-level. | ||
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MugenXBanksy
United States479 Posts
On October 19 2012 05:40 mordk wrote: If they could actually settle a team yeah.... What you fail to understand is that a skilled DotA team is far more than the sum of each player's individual skills, that is what mostly makes the higher echelon of skill ceiling, and even within individual skill there is a HUGE, GIGANTIC difference between "good" guys (akin to masters in SC2) and pro level players. You know nothing about Dota, just face it and stop talking about things you don't know. DotA and SC2 are very different games requiring very different skillsets, it makes no sense to compare them. SC2 is of course extremely difficult, everyone knows that, but the way you talk about DotA is evidence as to how ignorant you are about this game. Popularity is an entirely different thing. You are more likely to watch something you actually play, and having DotA-like games in general being more "fun" to play at a casual level means a lot more people will play, and hence, watch, there is nothing more to it. The reason SC2 is dwindling in popularity is not because of how difficult it is, but rather how bad of a social experience it is (mind you, I play most of my games completely alone, and personally don't care, but this issue is evident). Most gamers nowadays go to the internet for a social thing, this is also a big part of why D3's popularity falls. Battle.net 2.0 has failed to deliver the social experience most people want out of their online games, DotA-likes are social by nature, which makes them more popular at base-level. I fail to see the social aspect in game of lol of playing it for 3 months and got tired of the weird new hereos who were also like weird crappy knockoffs dota heroes and lame sense of balance . Dota2 has those cool chat boxes that are brood war-esque which is cool. I can respect dota for what it is and some of its mechanics. The things Dendi does gives me a better light of dota and a reason to no hate it like I do to lol. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On October 19 2012 05:49 MugenXBanksy wrote: I fail to see the social aspect in game of lol of playing it for 3 months and got tired of the weird new hereos who were also like weird crappy knockoffs dota heroes and lame sense of balance . Dota2 has those cool chat boxes that are brood war-esque which is cool. I can respect dota for what it is and some of its mechanics. The things Dendi does gives me a better light of dota and a reason to no hate it like I do to lol. The fact that it is a team game already makes it social, despite having mostly trolls and ragers on low level games, and most people tag in with a friend from the start. This is disregarding ANY game factors. I don't play LoL it's terrible imo, but that's not the issue at hand. The point is people are more likely to watch a game they play, and the social nature of DotA-likes makes it more likely people will play, which translates into more viewers. A better social experience out of Bnet 2.0 would bring a ton more viewers, even noobs would watch. | ||
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