EPTValve and Dota2 can't change the game. Dota is Dota, you can't try to copy LoL and add in tons of new Heros and items.
Where did this come from? OP seems to add in dota2 for no apparent reason with the exception of belittling it in comparison to lol.The Starcraft Crisis - Page 14
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On October 21 2012 22:04 archonOOid wrote: Where did this come from? OP seems to add in dota2 for no apparent reason with the exception of belittling it in comparison to lol. If you actually watched the video, or read the entire thing I don't knock Dota2 at all. In fact I praise it's ui and the steps Dota2 is taking to promote sponsors in game with a robust feature set. Obvious lack of Dota knowledge from me is obvious. Dota changes in ways much more subtle than LoL does, that's not a negative thing and that's what I meant by the Dota is Dota comment. For all the negative stuff coming out, I've been actively talking about how SC2 needs to change in a big way for awhile now. Just felt the timing was right to make a fully fledged post/video about it. It seems like Blizzard might just be listening though, with the delay on the balance patch and the recent reveal of HoTS ui changes there's still lots of hope. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
On October 22 2012 06:35 nkr wrote: idno, playing hots gives me anything but hope :s thank god its still beta There are kernels of solutions in HotS but it needs much more refinement. For example I think the Tempest, properly balanced, will be a godsend in PvP and PvZ lategame, and things like the Viper and widow mine will help a lot to punish deathball play. We need more of that. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On October 22 2012 06:30 Filter wrote: If you actually watched the video, or read the entire thing I don't knock Dota2 at all. In fact I praise it's ui and the steps Dota2 is taking to promote sponsors in game with a robust feature set. Obvious lack of Dota knowledge from me is obvious. Dota changes in ways much more subtle than LoL does, that's not a negative thing and that's what I meant by the Dota is Dota comment. For all the negative stuff coming out, I've been actively talking about how SC2 needs to change in a big way for awhile now. Just felt the timing was right to make a fully fledged post/video about it. It seems like Blizzard might just be listening though, with the delay on the balance patch and the recent reveal of HoTS ui changes there's still lots of hope. Dota changes aren't exactly subtle...... unless you can call heroes whom are never picked/banned become top hero picks in all games subtle (ex: jakiro/batrider). Blizzard barely even touches the meta-game let alone forces a change upon it. DotA actively promotes metagame changes and seems to even be actively encouraging "spectator" heroes by massively buffing them like the batrider which I personally think can only be good for e-sports as a whole. p.s. Watched Sc2 for 2 years and switched to dota about 2 months ago. Sad to say, but I've enjoyed watching dota way more than sc2 despite never having played/installed dota2. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
Instead Blizzard should address more on the gameplay issues because that's going to to be existence for a long time. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
Its like if some music snob was whining about the guitar riff on that newest LMFAO song, that it came from a computer and therefore sucks, it is a minor nerd like detail that majority of people dont give a shit about they just wanna listen to music in a club, real, authentic, phony, does not matter. How ironic that this very community chased off the "noobs" and even vouched for TL to make a "pro" only forum like ArenaJunkies for WoW over a year ago, remember that one guys? And now what this community needs the most is someone from the outside to give you a honest look on this game, it is the same thing Brood War players and fans had to realize. What was once a annoying voice you wished away "omg all these noobs came with SC2 ffs" are the very people you desperately need now. Your most important part is the last, where you address what people on TL and reddit talk about, how some are leaving, team disbanding etc. Basically everyone had their mouth shut for a while and finally the cards started falling, one after another. It was clear months ago that viewership for tournaments and streams was down by more than 20-30%, what once had 60k viewers could barely get 30-35k. | ||
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Paradise`
United States201 Posts
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
I blame the current map pool. It's basically impossible to punish turtles anymore. Typically in Brood War third bases were never as sheltered as they are in today's map pool. Also most of the current maps are large making the defender's advantage even greater so pre-maxed attacks are too risky. I could go on but basically there is no early or mid game once you get past platinum league and I refuse to spend 90% of my playing time repeating the same builds ad nauseum without any action. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
We don't have to suffer through the atrocious writing of SC2 compared to the original Starcraft...there must be dozens, hundreds of better games that don't hire hollywood script writers. I can't wait to play those games, and watch *those* games on TL, rather than constantly be forced to believe that only Blizzard is capable of delivering a good quality game. I think its just a matter of finding them...but also I wonder if RTS is really meant to be a niche community. There's nothing really wrong with that; it could at least piggyback on the success of other gaming platforms and give us a great viewing experience. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5723363257 If SC2 design team were a roman empire... ...this is how gladiator fights would look like: 1) Gladiator A starts with a sword and gladiator B with his bare hands and a shield for some defense. 2) If gladiator B is still alive after 10 minutes, the emperor will throw some new tools at him: an axe, a trident and a casting net, so he can have some fun. 3) After 10 more minutes, gladiator A will be given 10 lions and gladiator B a bucket of water and a bottle of poison and hope the lions are feeling thirsty. Then when gladiators complained that the fight is imbalanced, the emperor would say it's not because somehow gladiator A wins 50% of the time and gladiator B another 50%. He would also go to bed feeling very smart because he achieved asymmetrical balance and would be completely oblivious to the very simple fact that it's possible to give the gladiators different tools with different feels and still have a fair fight at all moments. All SC2 players, understand this: This game is badly designed. The frustration we all feel as players and constant QQing in the forums is NOT a colective paranoia. The game is filled with timings where one race has temporary unfair advantages. All races are UP at some point in the match-ups and it's not nice being that gladiator fighting with bare hands and trying to run away or hide until better weapons arrive. We need to make a stand and demand the game we all deserve for the money we paid. Winrates mean NOTHING at all to how fair the game is, so don't accept that argument ever again. I had high hopes that Blizzard would completely redesign the game in HotS, but after what I saw so far, I can only be very concerned about the game's future as well. It's like their living in denial. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Less whine More action Also, showing videos and visual proof of how the game is better using this mod will attract more people. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On October 22 2012 08:40 Cheerio wrote: This is a pointless whine thread. Every game would start to decline after a few years after release with a few exceptions where other factors besides game quality kicked in. QQing about a natural process without bringing up any specific points like balance, game design etc. is useless. What's pointless is closing your eyes to an obvious reality and living in denial like Blizzard does. SC2 supposedly has 2 more expansions ahead!!! Remember that? Because the OP clearly has that in mind. Blizzard needs to open their eyes to threads like this and absolutely act NOW. The game IS dying rather quickly. Only reason I'm not extremely concerned is because I know their comercial goal will kick in sooner or later and speak higher then their pride and refusal to admit all the mistakes they've done. There are millions of threads with suggestions and pointint out the problems. Blizzard can't complain about lack of feedback from the community. Them and only them are the ones who need to act!! So stop acting like everything is normal. We should all push them into making an amazing HotS with radical changes from WoL flawed design. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 22 2012 09:22 Azoryen wrote: What's pointless is closing your eyes to an obvious reality and living in denial like Blizzard does. SC2 supposedly has 2 more expansions ahead!!! Remember that? Because the OP clearly has that in mind. Blizzard needs to open their eyes to threads like this and absolutely act NOW. The game IS dying rather quickly. Only reason I'm not extremely concerned is because I know their comercial goal will kick in sooner or later and speak higher then their pride and refusal to admit all the mistakes they've done. There are millions of threads with suggestions and pointint out the problems. Blizzard can't complain about lack of feedback from the community. Them and only them are the ones who need to act!! So stop acting like everything is normal. We should all push them into making an amazing HotS with radical changes from WoL flawed design. Its a race against time. In 2 expansions, LoL and or other game might take over entirely the scene and Blizzard will have no chance of breaking into the market again. They need to act, and they need to do it quickly. | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
SC never had this crap. WC3 also never had this crap. Yet all these nerds on SC2 seem hellbent on ruining the game and ruining the experience for other people... Yet they scream "ESPORTS ESPORTS" and expect to be taken seriously? Its like MW3: The game was good although it had its flaws. But in the end, it was the PLAYERS who ruined the game. Same thing that is happening here. | ||
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LanTAs
United States1091 Posts
On October 18 2012 14:29 kill619 wrote: I'll never understand how one team disbanding, an expansion that's very early in beta(relative to when it's actually going to be released) not being perfect, and three reddit post in a day warrants so much panic and distress in a community so quickly. Just one team you say? It was Slayers, the most well established team in the begining of 2012 with large sponsors like Intel, Razer, and Pocari Sweat to name a few, and now they're gone. Note that SC2 teams cost more to run than LoL teams (believe it or not) and the profit you pull in is less than what you would get in investing in a MobA game. There aren't many SC2 KR teams now, which means less players playing, less viewers wanting to watch because their favorite player retired, and less sponsorship and less of an incentive for businesses to inject money into the scene. The scene has been in a steady decline I'd say since the start of 2012, with player counts from NA falling from a good 1 mill down to a mere 300k in mid 2012 and now probably around 100k active ladder players. It is not an accurate representation of how many total active members there are on the scene, but it shows you that people are caring less and less about SC2 while numbers for LoL are skyrocketing and numbers for DotA are still on the rise (by viewership, DotA has higher viewer count, especially in china). LoL is picking up in korea and its becoming the next SC:BW, a spot in which SC2 failed to fulfill and DotA 2 is picking up around china and SEA, which is where they traditionally dominated. Shootmania is also growing steadily too, with the growing numbers of former quake players trying it out and the fighting game scene is growing too. Honestly, we're pretty close to dead now, we're almost as good as goners. Blizzard continues to neglect the community, the community neglects the players, and this is just going to go downhill from here. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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