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On October 29 2012 00:21 Disposition1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock. "lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL". Can you explain this part? I don't understand how you can lose respect for this. Anyways, you ever played league before? It's more fun than sc2. See what I did there? My enjoyment of things is different than yours yet the sky has not fallen and I haven't lost respect for you.
While I'm not the guy you're responding to, I have some thoughts here.
It's a lot harder to take anything he says on the subject of SC2 seriously since his mostly-switching to League. His revenue comes from stream viewers. It's clear he views SC2 and League as competitors. So since he's switched, his comments on SC2 seem motivated by competition. They're phrased in such a way as to damage the game he left while promoting the game he's playing now.
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On October 29 2012 02:28 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 02:05 Doodsmack wrote:On October 29 2012 01:19 Toadvine wrote:On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it. Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute. It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time. This is a good example of why I'm convinced that these doomsday threads are being primarily fueled by people who already didn't like SC2 and probably get a kick out of saying that there's no hope. Probably a lot of them are BW elitists too, who just love to tell us how much they hate SC2. A quick glance through some of this guy's posts shows almost nothing but negativity towards SC2 lol. Surely someone with a negative opinion towards any given topic is more likely to post than those with positive opinions. The vocal minority is out in full force in these threads. EDIT: LOL the guy 2 posts above me wcr.4fun just further proves my point. His post history is filled with SC2 negativity. He also has a lot of posts in the BW forums. Here's one gem re SC2: "I am SO glad I didn't buy diablo 3 despite some people reassuring me it would be money well spent; I decided to wait because of the failure that is sc2. I'm not buying HOTS any time soon unless some serious, serious changes in mentality and design happen. lmao." I agree. Many of these people are are being super negative just reek of bitterness. they are probably really mad they are horrible at the game or their favorite players are not winning.
the whole point is that people don't fucking like the melee rts genre in the first place. people didn't play BW ladder or WC3 (much more relevant) ladder the majority of the time, they played custom games. blizzard _DESTROYED_ the custom game making (and playing) community with _HORRIFIC_ decisions, so people just don't log on anymore.
if you think people are negative about being bad at something they never had much interest playing (and likely haven't played for about two years now in any case), you're as stupid as whoever is making the calls at blizzard.
On October 29 2012 08:15 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 00:21 Disposition1989 wrote:On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock. "lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL". Can you explain this part? I don't understand how you can lose respect for this. Anyways, you ever played league before? It's more fun than sc2. See what I did there? My enjoyment of things is different than yours yet the sky has not fallen and I haven't lost respect for you. While I'm not the guy you're responding to, I have some thoughts here. It's a lot harder to take anything he says on the subject of SC2 seriously since his mostly-switching to League. His revenue comes from stream viewers. It's clear he views SC2 and League as competitors. So since he's switched, his comments on SC2 seem motivated by competition. They're phrased in such a way as to damage the game he left while promoting the game he's playing now.
Jesus christ dude, re-think your life.
Is it completely impossible (insane! lunatic!) for you to look at what someone is saying instead of focusing entirely on who is saying it?
Where do you think Starcraft 2 is heading? What can/has/could be done? What are the problems we are currently (as a community) facing? How do similar games affect ours? etc...
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i'm not sure what else there is to say, time will tell and i'm fairly certain there will be an announcement about HotS at IPL.
i honestly do think the development is too easily content on the quality of their game. there are a lot of mouths to fill, yet those gamer's ideals are not difficult concepts.
ive come to realize that there are games that just have an irrefutable impression on you. some games in your childhood receive 'amazing' status. league of legends is just fun all-around, but i know friends who get so easily frustrated over that game that it feels like it cuts into their fun.
if it were up to me, i would concentrate on making the units look lovable, and the custom map support amazing.
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On October 29 2012 02:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Probably a lot of them are BW elitists too,
yes the 5 remaining BW elitists on TL have hijacked the thread for the past 80 pages.
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I don't really like Destiny all that much.
But I do like this article. Well said, and fairly well written. Blizzard as a company has just dropped the ball lately and it doesnt even seem as if they care to pick it back up.
I could write an equally long and informative post on why Diablo 3 was such a disaster. And I'm no game developer, I'm just a fan. Sad when a loyal customer can look at new products and tell the company what they did wrong, instead of the company pushing the envelope and showing the customer what they didnt even think of / expect.
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blizzard is going down in flames... good job recruiting c&c and dow people
dont get me wrong i loved c&c and dow, but they are no good esport titels
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On October 29 2012 11:23 TaShadan wrote:
blizzard is going down in flames... good job recruiting c&c and dow people
dont get me wrong i loved c&c and dow, but they are no good esport titels
I don't think Blizzard is going down in flames.
Do you still enjoy SC2?
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On October 29 2012 11:26 BlueBoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 11:23 TaShadan wrote:
blizzard is going down in flames... good job recruiting c&c and dow people
dont get me wrong i loved c&c and dow, but they are no good esport titels I don't think Blizzard is going down in flames. Do you still enjoy SC2?
no i dont and i rarly watch it cause its often very boring to watch especially protoss matchups
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On October 29 2012 08:15 OblivionMage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 08:15 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 29 2012 00:21 Disposition1989 wrote:On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock. "lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL". Can you explain this part? I don't understand how you can lose respect for this. Anyways, you ever played league before? It's more fun than sc2. See what I did there? My enjoyment of things is different than yours yet the sky has not fallen and I haven't lost respect for you. While I'm not the guy you're responding to, I have some thoughts here. It's a lot harder to take anything he says on the subject of SC2 seriously since his mostly-switching to League. His revenue comes from stream viewers. It's clear he views SC2 and League as competitors. So since he's switched, his comments on SC2 seem motivated by competition. They're phrased in such a way as to damage the game he left while promoting the game he's playing now. Jesus christ dude, re-think your life. Is it completely impossible (insane! lunatic!) for you to look at what someone is saying instead of focusing entirely on who is saying it? Where do you think Starcraft 2 is heading? What can/has/could be done? What are the problems we are currently (as a community) facing? How do similar games affect ours? etc...
Nothing he's said is particularly new. All he's really added is hysterics.
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On October 29 2012 11:29 TaShadan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 11:26 BlueBoxSC wrote:On October 29 2012 11:23 TaShadan wrote:
blizzard is going down in flames... good job recruiting c&c and dow people
dont get me wrong i loved c&c and dow, but they are no good esport titels I don't think Blizzard is going down in flames. Do you still enjoy SC2? no i dont and i rarly watch it cause its often very boring to watch especially protoss matchups
how exactly is blizzard going down in flames?
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On October 29 2012 11:35 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 11:29 TaShadan wrote:On October 29 2012 11:26 BlueBoxSC wrote:On October 29 2012 11:23 TaShadan wrote:
blizzard is going down in flames... good job recruiting c&c and dow people
dont get me wrong i loved c&c and dow, but they are no good esport titels I don't think Blizzard is going down in flames. Do you still enjoy SC2? no i dont and i rarly watch it cause its often very boring to watch especially protoss matchups how exactly is blizzard going down in flames?
Look at how ghetto WoW has become free level 80's and other shitty promotions.
Look at how shitty Blizz has been at balancing SC2.
D3 was terrible.
Blizz has had some terrible decision making choices for Sc2. Look at the replicator. That pile of shit shouldn't have ever left the conception stage. How much more lazy can you get with game design... Balance is hard=Just give them the other races units.
Sc2 has gotten stale and so boring to watch now and the viewer numbers reflect that. Maybe HoTS will fix it but I doubt it.
p.s. I usually really dislike destiny but he had some damn good points in his post. Keep on riffing mang
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None of that is new. This is like someone yelling about bananas having potassium in them. Duh. Tell me something I didn't know. Tell me how to fix it. The problem is that his answer is "Blizzard and only Blizzard." But that's not the case.
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I really do miss a good custom game port
And I seriously miss playing those custom games
I mean what the hell happened, Blizzard? I fucking loved playing elemental TD and pretty much 90% of games that weren't dota in Warcraft 3 FT
And I loved playing those Evolve/DBZ and again, 90% of games in BW.
SC2 custom games just feels boring to me..
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On October 29 2012 12:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: The problem is that his answer is "Blizzard and only Blizzard." But that's not the case.
No, thats pretty much the only answer.
There are things the community can do that help, but that might be a combined 10-15% of the big picture. The other 85% rests with Blizzard, and the fact that every other major esport title company right now puts more effort into promoting and supporting their game on a weekly basis then Blizzard has since sc2 was released.
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On October 29 2012 12:24 my0s wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: The problem is that his answer is "Blizzard and only Blizzard." But that's not the case. No, thats pretty much the only answer. There are things the community can do that help, but that might be a combined 10-15% of the big picture. The other 85% rests with Blizzard, and the fact that every other major esport title company right now puts more effort into promoting and supporting their game on a weekly basis then Blizzard has since sc2 was released.
There are two ways to look at that. The Destiny way is "the community can only do 15%, it's hopeless." The other way is that there are things we can do to make things better. It might not be much, but we aren't completely powerless to affect the course of our game. We can change things for the better. Things aren't hopeless, far from it, so let's start doing what we can.
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On October 29 2012 12:29 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:24 my0s wrote:On October 29 2012 12:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: The problem is that his answer is "Blizzard and only Blizzard." But that's not the case. No, thats pretty much the only answer. There are things the community can do that help, but that might be a combined 10-15% of the big picture. The other 85% rests with Blizzard, and the fact that every other major esport title company right now puts more effort into promoting and supporting their game on a weekly basis then Blizzard has since sc2 was released. There are two ways to look at that. The Destiny way is "the community can only do 15%, it's hopeless." The other way is that there are things we can do to make things better. It might not be much, but we aren't completely powerless to affect the course of our game. We can change things for the better. Things aren't hopeless, far from it, so let's start doing what we can.
Agreed, but I think we can optimistically approach the game like your latter clause suggests, but I think we can't ignore the 85% monopoly of control Blizzard has over the game as well. =/
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On October 29 2012 12:32 BlueBoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:29 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 29 2012 12:24 my0s wrote:On October 29 2012 12:00 LuckoftheIrish wrote: The problem is that his answer is "Blizzard and only Blizzard." But that's not the case. No, thats pretty much the only answer. There are things the community can do that help, but that might be a combined 10-15% of the big picture. The other 85% rests with Blizzard, and the fact that every other major esport title company right now puts more effort into promoting and supporting their game on a weekly basis then Blizzard has since sc2 was released. There are two ways to look at that. The Destiny way is "the community can only do 15%, it's hopeless." The other way is that there are things we can do to make things better. It might not be much, but we aren't completely powerless to affect the course of our game. We can change things for the better. Things aren't hopeless, far from it, so let's start doing what we can. Agreed, but I think we can optimistically approach the game like your latter clause suggests, but I think we can't ignore the 85% monopoly of control Blizzard has over the game as well. =/
And that's fine. Lobby the shit out of Blizzard to make things better!
Just don't go all-in on it. Don't take the attitude that, if Blizzard doesn't do Thing X, then the game is ruined forever. Because it's not.
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On October 29 2012 12:36 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Just don't go all-in on it. Don't take the attitude that, if Blizzard doesn't do Thing X, then the game is ruined forever. Because it's not.
I can see your point. But the only people that will be servicing are those who are already passionate about the game and would go "down with the ship" in a matter of speaking anyway.
The game will not grow without the support casuals and viewer count. Everything we can do as an established community will just help keep sc2 on life support. It just will not grow or even sustain without Blizzard changing in a dramatic way.
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Diablo 3 really is a nail on the coffin for Blizzard. How can such low quality games with so little depth be branded with "BLIZZARD"?
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What most people involved in SC2 don't get, it's that its not simply making it into a full on casual friendly game, there are a ton of super popular casual friendly games that don't get attention, you need to have something that can be enjoyed when spectating, that is something SC2 has never had. Gameplay is super standarized and lame, graphics can have high definition but are simply ugly and unappealing. Sound effects draw you off from the game instead of helping you get more into it. And the whole "ball vs ball" concept of SC2's "war" is the worst part.
It's not entertaining to watch even when you know what is going on in the game, and if it is not entertaining for people who understand it, how can it be for people who don't, BroodWar has the upside that even if you do not know much about the game, it is still easy and clear to understand what is happening, even when every action being performed by a pro gamer requires so much skill, you can still comprehend the flow of the game.
The population SC2 hold's right now is already a result of the casual friendliness of the game, making it more casual friendly is not going to help at all, the game is not going to grow more because it was not designed to be successful, it was designed to sell an initial batch, and die before the next batch came out so people buy that new batch then. SC2 will not rise as a true eSport unless it is basically remade from the ground up with an actual desire for real, long term success.
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EPT
