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On October 28 2012 22:54 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 22:49 bokeevboke wrote:On October 28 2012 22:39 Clbull wrote:
If you truly want to support the scene then start paying for content. Simple as that.
MLG tried to innovate with a PPV model that met only a small amount of succcess, probably because it drove away a lot of viewers, so many in fact that you'd not get much difference if you made an event free to watch. Why else do you think the Summer Arena became freemium?
Remember when MLG first announced the SC2 Winter Arena and its PPV model? People were furious, acting like it wasn't worth it and that MLG were killing themselves. There was surely a reason why MLG were doing this. They saw a stagnation in viewership and saw it as more profitable and beneficial for growing the scene to experiment with pay-per-view.
Clearly MLG are after money to grow the scene, implement bigger prize pools, drive more people to the game. The fact that a near absolute majority of people were unwilling to pay for any of the Arena events puts into question their commitment to esports. How on earth, making content not free is gonna increase viewership? You should really find interview with Sundance, where he tries to explain why they implemented PPV. Its not because they care about esports, its because it was a very expensive hobby to run MLG. What does it mean to support scene? Do we blindly follow it? Everytime there is tournament we have to tune in to provide more viewership its nonsense. You can't just watch sc2 for the sake of scene. Viewers need a entertainment, excitement, 'oooahh' moments, which is clearly not happening. Because Blizzard didn't make a good enough esports game. Thats why people are complaining all around. Stop blaming community. We are not always good, but its not our fault that game sucks. It's not about increasing the viewership. It's about increasing the income a tournament would make and making your business model sustainable. I recall MLG being quite reliant on sponsor funding to the point where they have something like... 12 sponsors. What if a few were to pull out of e-sports?
Whats the meaning of scene for you, is it to pretend being entertained so that bunch of sponsors believed you and paid money to progamers?
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Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock.
I think it was Own3D that implemented that, not Destiny. If you're going to watch a players stream/content, why not at least watch what few advertisements they play to support them? That's one of the dumbest things I've heard concerning "losing respect" for someone.
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On October 28 2012 23:12 Ozcollo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock. I think it was Own3D that implemented that, not Destiny. If you're going to watch a players stream/content, why not at least watch what few advertisements they play to support them? That's one of the dumbest things I've heard concerning "losing respect" for someone.
Spoiler-ed for off-topic.
+ Show Spoiler +It's the same concept as companies implementing restrictive DRM, and receiving flack for it (as they should). I've been using adblock for 8 years; if streamers want to make money then they should do it in a way that doesn't impact the viewing experience.
You have to remember that fundamentally "streaming" and "ads" are not a single entity. There's no fundamental ad requirement to stream. It's like mainstream music made solely to make money versus indie artists whom don't care who pirates their albums as they take joy from simply having fans.
Streaming should be to show your friends and the world your games; not to make money.
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Streaming should be to show your friends and the world your games; not to make money.
Most progamers dont have a sallary like some EG/Liquid players. If you want to watch high level play from professionell gamers you should at least support them with the few cents they get from advertisement. Otherwise they can only play in the freetime and get a job to finance their lifes witch will naturally affect the quality of their gameplay.
You act like its a big thing to let a 30 second ad play... And the example with indie-music isnt good. These artists can still play on tour and make money with that and merch (infact this is the biggest income from not-mainstream music artists). Progamers in comparison dont have this option, their ways to finance the life with esport is quite limited.
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he is exactly right. i got so many friends into wc3 (my age group is too young for sc:bw, i was like 6 years old when it was released) because of funmaps like footmen frenzy, dota and dbz tribute. even today i sometimes play them again because they are so much fun.
sadly the concept of sc2 is strictly against those. the main menu is built as if sc2 was released 15 years ago.
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On October 28 2012 10:10 jexxto wrote:
I don't know if I should be impressed by Destiny or shocked by the community.
Picture this. A mediocre, barely "pro" SC2 personality, mostly known for racist comments, trying (?) to fuck a porn star and sending pictures of his tiny penis around the internet, posts an opinion based thread. The content is essentially "STARCRAFT IS FUCKED AND THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO". Mix in a self inflated sense of ego, pseduo intellectual arguements and a sprinkle of self righetousness.
Now, this player has posted no notable results in Starcraft 2, is famous less for his play and more for his appeal to angsty teens. Yet for some reason, there is overwhelming support and agreement about his ideas and opinions. No one has any factual evidence, merely circumstantial numbers and comparisons to other games.
If someone who actually had some kind weight behind their words came forth with this thread, presented it correctly with actual evidence and numbers that mean anything. perhaps then I could understand the community having such a sizeable contingent accepting it as gospel. However all we have here is TMZ styled sensationalism that makes as much sense as wearing wellies on your hands.
I don't know if I should be impressed by Destiny or shocked by the community...
I couldn't agree more.
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Starcraft 2 is a badass game. You can't deny it. Its hard yes and hard to play but if you ask people that use to play the game but quit, they still say its a badass game not for the weak. What are they going to do, play C&C? LOL is a different game type so you can be fans of both.
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On October 28 2012 23:06 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Destiny has no credibility.
I lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL, and restricting HQ stream access to people without adblock.
"lost all respect for this guy after he started streaming LoL". Can you explain this part? I don't understand how you can lose respect for this. Anyways, you ever played league before? It's more fun than sc2. See what I did there? My enjoyment of things is different than yours yet the sky has not fallen and I haven't lost respect for you.
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On October 28 2012 23:51 imperator-xy wrote:
he is exactly right. i got so many friends into wc3 (my age group is too young for sc:bw, i was like 6 years old when it was released) because of funmaps like footmen frenzy, dota and dbz tribute. even today i sometimes play them again because they are so much fun.
sadly the concept of sc2 is strictly against those. the main menu is built as if sc2 was released 15 years ago.
This is so true, it boggles my mind how Blizzard could have gotten rid of the IRC style chat interface.
I made so many friends hanging out in the same few chat rooms during Diablo and SC days.
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I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it.
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On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it.
We are dissapointed because game has low entertaining value, not because it isn't N1 game in the world.
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On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it.
Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute.
It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time.
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On October 29 2012 01:19 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it. Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute. It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time.
Your opinion, not fact. I'm masters with Zerg and been playing against masters with my Terran account since the season lock. If anything I play a lot more now, than when the game was released.
More than 2 years this is exclusively the only multi player game I've played. The only game that even remotely interests me is BW.
I'm sure there is a lot of people that share my experience. My real life friend plays SC2 a lot more than me, but never posts on forums. Also, SC2 is the only multi player game he plays as well. You don't get a good perspective from those sorts of people. Because they just enjoy playing the game, he doesn't give a fuck about peoples theories on why a free to play game of a different genre is more popular.
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On October 29 2012 01:19 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it. Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute. It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time.
That's really just your own opinion. I have a blast playing and watching SC2, and people have seen an increase in viewership for tournaments.
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the standard game is not exciting/fun enough and the 'custom' game support sucks ass.
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On October 29 2012 01:19 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it. Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute. It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time.
This is a good example of why I'm convinced that these doomsday threads are being primarily fueled by people who already didn't like SC2 and probably get a kick out of saying that there's no hope. Probably a lot of them are BW elitists too, who just love to tell us how much they hate SC2. A quick glance through some of this guy's posts shows almost nothing but negativity towards SC2 lol. Surely someone with a negative opinion towards any given topic is more likely to post than those with positive opinions. The vocal minority is out in full force in these threads.
EDIT: LOL the guy 2 posts above me wcr.4fun just further proves my point. His post history is filled with SC2 negativity. He also has a lot of posts in the BW forums. Here's one gem re SC2:
"I am SO glad I didn't buy diablo 3 despite some people reassuring me it would be money well spent; I decided to wait because of the failure that is sc2. I'm not buying HOTS any time soon unless some serious, serious changes in mentality and design happen. lmao."
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oh well whatever the case, base on the top 10 most popular game in korea the koreans dont view sc2 as a skillful game enough to be in top 10. blizz should seriously stop kidding themselves now.
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On October 29 2012 02:05 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 01:19 Toadvine wrote:On October 29 2012 00:43 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't understand all of this really. StarCraft isn't the most played in the world? And then? Of course noob friendly games attract more people, but this doesn't mean they are better.
I'd say SC2 is similar to chess in this way. People respect a lot chess players because it's a game that involves a lot of skill and intelligence, doesn't matter if it's less played, let's say, than poker.
Personally I started playing SC2 (four months ago) because I was hearing such beautiful things about it on the internet. If you go around saying silly things like "sc2 is dead" or "esport is only LoL" then certainly people won't feel like playing it. Once you get decent-ish at the game (I guess about mid-Diamond nowadays?) you'll understand what the problem is. You can justify losing to stupid crap with "It's a learning experience, I'll do better next time!"; but then you start noticing that winning against stupid crap isn't very fun either; that "standard" games are boring as hell; and that no matter how good you get, there will still be stupid crap capable of killing you, that a clever chimpanzee could potentially execute. It's just not very fun to play, and very boring to watch most of the time. This is a good example of why I'm convinced that these doomsday threads are being primarily fueled by people who already didn't like SC2 and probably get a kick out of saying that there's no hope. Probably a lot of them are BW elitists too, who just love to tell us how much they hate SC2. A quick glance through some of this guy's posts shows almost nothing but negativity towards SC2 lol. Surely someone with a negative opinion towards any given topic is more likely to post than those with positive opinions. The vocal minority is out in full force in these threads. EDIT: LOL the guy 2 posts above me wcr.4fun just further proves my point. His post history is filled with SC2 negativity. He also has a lot of posts in the BW forums. Here's one gem re SC2: "I am SO glad I didn't buy diablo 3 despite some people reassuring me it would be money well spent; I decided to wait because of the failure that is sc2. I'm not buying HOTS any time soon unless some serious, serious changes in mentality and design happen. lmao."
I agree. Many of these people are are being super negative just reek of bitterness. they are probably really mad they are horrible at the game or their favorite players are not winning.
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EPT
