EPTDestiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 80
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
| ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 28 2012 16:35 nt-rAven wrote: The difference between sc2 and all other games is the fact that you can actually have this kind of thread. Everyone in SC2 that has become aware of esports through SC2 is spoiled rotten... If you come from Counter-strike, Quake, dota, wc3.. u know how those communities reacted. 3/4th of them just flamed and trolled, it was almost not even worth playing unless u just turned on your elitest switch just to destroy those haters and become the best! SC2 is a higher class and will always survive no matter what happens, if anything its just the flammers and haters leaving to hate and flame another game because deep down they cannot and do not want to destroy sc2 cause its an awesome game, the end! Is this some kind of gaming racism? On October 28 2012 16:33 Talin wrote: I wouldn't say they're "convinced by him", I think it's more a case of people realizing "hey, I've been feeling the same way about the game for a long time now". There's a plethora of threads and blogs with similar opinions dating back to last year. "Having notable results" holds absolutely no weight in regards to this topic. In fact, it could even be detrimental, as progamers - or people who do have "notable results" and "top tier insight" - also tend to have a very skewed perspective on Starcraft 2 as a video game, and are not really representative of the game's playerbase as a whole. This is exactly what I was trying to say. But my English sucks  | ||
|
Tosster
Poland299 Posts
On October 28 2012 09:27 VanGarde wrote: Except he is actually just playing LoL. He has basically been only streaming LoL since he made his post. It is perplexing that not more people can see through the fac that this is just a huge marketing campaign. Destiny has clearly decided to switch to LoL since some time back, now he see's an opportunity to revitalize his following by starting up this whole thing. No one has provided any statistics that backs up any of the doomsday assumptions made by destiny. Until anyone provides actual data to support it, it should be ignored. I know he's playin LoL, wtf people :D Im just saying, he will never ever enjoy starcraft (again), like good amount of people in this thread, cause they have toxic minds already. | ||
|
Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
Furthermore, sc2 isn't even a finished game, we are still waiting for expansions. Look at sc1 without BW or War3 without TFT. These two expansions made both games a lot better, even tho people thought they were bullshit. I remember that it took me 1 year to switch from Reign of Chaos to The Frozen Throne but at the end I think that TFT is a way better game. | ||
|
Yergidy
United States2107 Posts
| ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
| ||
|
azzih
Germany98 Posts
And let us be honest: This kind of experience is nothing the big mass of random and casual players will enjoy and keep on playing. But a profit-oriented company like Blizzard needs growth and people who play and buy their products and not a few hardcore fans. Here a few facts: - the viewer count of SC2 events stagnates or even goes down - in Korea SC2 doesnt nearly has the standing SC1/Broodwar once had - HOTS is not changing much, infact it looks kinda boring even right now before its even released | ||
|
Leru
Romania257 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:04 azzih wrote: I agree to most points of destiny's article. I think they keynote is that SC2 is just not fun to play. I mean, it can be motivating to win, get better and rise in the ladder, but the gameplay itself is highly exhausting, tense and the moment of joy is just when you see the winning screen. Often enough its just the disappointing and angry feeling of loosing. In most other games the time you play is fun itself, in SC2 it feels like work. And let us be honest: This kind of experience is nothing the big mass of random and casual players will enjoy and keep on playing. But a profit-oriented company like Blizzard needs growth and people who play and buy their products and not a few hardcore fans. [offtopic]Kind of feeling bad about quoting you having 3 posts and joined TL yesterday[/offtopic] I think the best thing for the people that don't like the game would be to stop playing it and go find something else. There is no point in feeling miserable about a game , unless you're trying to be a pro-gamer or are affiliated to Blizzard in someway. For the most of us, that is not the case. So stop playing the game if you don't enjoy it and let the others to play it without this doomsday athmosphere. I decided not to play SC2 at least for a while, exactly because it feels like "work" and I have a much better time playing Dota 2. But there are many that still like the game, so GL HF to them ! | ||
|
Redox
Germany24794 Posts
He went to Poland to practise hard and become really good, fails at doing that because of motivation or skill and now blames the game. Destiny's attempt to switch to LoL is destined to fail. He does not seem to get that the people watching him play LoL are only his fans from sc2. And he got these fans in the first place not only because of personality, but also because he is actually decent at sc2, for sure better than all his viewers. The same can not be said for LoL. Destiny plainly sucks at the game. I think I have never seen someone have so much trouble learning it while actually trying hard. He may improve, but I doubt he will reach a level that will make it worth for a pure LoL fan to watch him. Especially as there is huge competition from LoL streamers that are actually good and have personality. And while Destiny is trying to get there the sc2 guys will leave him eventually. Of course all of that is his own problem, its just stupid how he drags the state of sc2 into all of this. Even if some of his criticism is warranted. | ||
|
nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On October 28 2012 16:35 nt-rAven wrote: The difference between sc2 and all other games is the fact that you can actually have this kind of thread. Everyone in SC2 that has become aware of esports through SC2 is spoiled rotten... If you come from Counter-strike, Quake, dota, wc3.. u know how those communities reacted. 3/4th of them just flamed and trolled, it was almost not even worth playing unless u just turned on your elitest switch just to destroy those haters and become the best! SC2 is a higher class and will always survive no matter what happens, if anything its just the flammers and haters leaving to hate and flame another game because deep down they cannot and do not want to destroy sc2 cause its an awesome game, the end! having played online games since 98, I can see what you are saying. However, the difference is not in the general sc2 community, but rather the harsh moderation (harsh in comparison) of TL.net. Without it, you would not be able to tell the communities apart. | ||
|
zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
I think the best thing for the people that don't like the game would be to stop playing it and go find something else. There is no point in feeling miserable about a game , unless you're trying to be a pro-gamer or are affiliated to Blizzard in someway. Man this is primarily a Starcraft website, the people here love Starcraft. Starcraft is dying and your complaining we are upset? damn. | ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:26 Leru wrote: [offtopic]Kind of feeling bad about quoting you having 3 posts and joined TL yesterday[/offtopic] I think the best thing for the people that don't like the game would be to stop playing it and go find something else. There is no point in feeling miserable about a game , unless you're trying to be a pro-gamer or are affiliated to Blizzard in someway. For the most of us, that is not the case. So stop playing the game if you don't enjoy it and let the others to play it without this doomsday athmosphere. I decided not to play SC2 at least for a while, exactly because it feels like "work" and I have a much better time playing Dota 2. But there are many that still like the game, so GL HF to them ! I don't understand why you think you're superior if you have more post than him. That is a bad attitude. He doesn't feel miserable. His trying to indicate problems of sc2, and the fact that he didn't leave the game means he cares. You agree with him, but still, try to bash him. I wonder what kind of person are you. If he was minority, it would be okay to say gtfo. But there are lots of people who are unhappy with sc2 gameplay. | ||
|
Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
MLG tried to innovate with a PPV model that met only a small amount of succcess, probably because it drove away a lot of viewers, so many in fact that you'd not get much difference if you made an event free to watch. Why else do you think the Summer Arena became freemium? Remember when MLG first announced the SC2 Winter Arena and its PPV model? People were furious, acting like it wasn't worth it and that MLG were killing themselves. There was surely a reason why MLG were doing this. They saw a stagnation in viewership and saw it as more profitable and beneficial for growing the scene to experiment with pay-per-view. Clearly MLG are after money to grow the scene, implement bigger prize pools, drive more people to the game. The fact that a near-unanimous majority of people were unwilling to pay for any of the Arena events puts into question their commitment to esports. I mean for fuck's sake. It's a simple business practice! I can give loads of examples of ways viewers have tried to generate more revenue. Do you recall when the Wall Street Journal, The Times, News of the World etc turned towards providing premium content on their websites and placing whole articles behind a paywall? Do you know why they did that? Because even if they lost like.... 99.7% (hypothetical number but you get the point) of their online readership in the move, they'd still make more money than from just running an ad-supported news website. | ||
|
Leru
Romania257 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:30 zbedlam wrote: I haven't played this game in a year but they still have that arcade custom game system? hahaha Man this is primarily a Starcraft website, the people here love Starcraft. Starcraft is dying and your complaining we are upset? damn. I was talking mainly about the ones that play the game  In your case I see you are worried about the pro-scene . I also feel the game is stale, but if you like, let's say BW better, you should follow it, and if enough people would do that, I'm sure they'll start having some more BW tournaments. In this "economy" they would have Tetris tournaments if that would be profitable :D | ||
|
jdsowa
405 Posts
As long as Blizzard controls the ladder system and its maps, the community will have little control over where this game is headed. That means the only thing we can do is cry loud enough to try and get Blizzard's attention. One consideration is that Blizzard made a ton of money off this game in the summer of 2010. It's been trickling in since then, but for the most part, they've got most of the money they're going to get. It doesn't make financial sense for them to have a dedicated team of more than a few people to maintain a game that isn't generating a ton of new revenue. They may've done the math and decided that a certain % of their customers will buy HOTS and it will be nicely profitable, even if it's a critical failure. Still, Blizzard's apparent ignorance of community opinion is alarming. The fact that they essentially asked Sheth to poll the community makes it seem like they've been blissfully unaware of the community's demands this whole time, as they apparently don't even have a starting point for what should be fixed. | ||
|
Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:04 azzih wrote: I agree to most points of destiny's article. I think they keynote is that SC2 is just not fun to play. I mean, it can be motivating to win, get better and rise in the ladder, but the gameplay itself is highly exhausting, tense and the moment of joy is just when you see the winning screen. Often enough its just the disappointing and angry feeling of loosing. In most other games the time you play is fun itself, in SC2 it feels like work. And let us be honest: This kind of experience is nothing the big mass of random and casual players will enjoy and keep on playing. But a profit-oriented company like Blizzard needs growth and people who play and buy their products and not a few hardcore fans. Here a few facts: - the viewer count of SC2 events stagnates or even goes down - in Korea SC2 doesnt nearly has the standing SC1/Broodwar once had - HOTS is not changing much, infact it looks kinda boring even right now before its even released But incontrol is getting a raise! | ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:39 Clbull wrote: If you truly want to support the scene then start paying for content. Simple as that. MLG tried to innovate with a PPV model that met only a small amount of succcess, probably because it drove away a lot of viewers, so many in fact that you'd not get much difference if you made an event free to watch. Why else do you think the Summer Arena became freemium? Remember when MLG first announced the SC2 Winter Arena and its PPV model? People were furious, acting like it wasn't worth it and that MLG were killing themselves. There was surely a reason why MLG were doing this. They saw a stagnation in viewership and saw it as more profitable and beneficial for growing the scene to experiment with pay-per-view. Clearly MLG are after money to grow the scene, implement bigger prize pools, drive more people to the game. The fact that a near absolute majority of people were unwilling to pay for any of the Arena events puts into question their commitment to esports. How on earth, making content not free is gonna increase viewership? You should really find interview with Sundance, where he tries to explain why they implemented PPV. Its not because they care about esports, its because it was a very expensive hobby to run MLG. What does it mean to support scene? Do we blindly follow it? Everytime there is tournament we have to tune in to provide more viewership its nonsense. You can't just watch sc2 for the sake of scene. Viewers need a entertainment, excitement, 'oooahh' moments, which is clearly not happening. Because Blizzard didn't make a good enough esports game. Thats why people are complaining all around. Stop blaming community. We are not always good, but its not our fault that game sucks. | ||
|
Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:44 jdsowa wrote: InControl's suggestion yesterday that SC2 can be saved by the community becoming exaggeratedly positive and tweeting about streams and small tournaments is way off base. You can't get the community to fake who they are. LoL doesn't have to ask its community to go on any ridiculous PR campaigns because people still naturally find that game interesting. Sure, the doom and gloom may turn some additional people off, but it's merely a symptom--a reaction--to the real problem, which is a declining interest in a stagnant and neglected game. As long as Blizzard controls the ladder system and its maps, the community will have little control over where this game is headed. That means the only thing we can do is cry loud enough to try and get Blizzard's attention. There are a couple possibilities. One consideration is that Blizzard made a ton of money off this game in the summer of 2010. It's been trickling in since then, but for the most part, they've got most of the money they're going to get. It doesn't make financial sense for them to have a dedicated team of more than a few people to maintain a game that isn't generating a ton of new revenue. They may've done the math and decided that a certain % of their customers will buy HOTS and it will be nicely profitable, even if it's a critical failure. iNcontroL's living in Narnia clearly. Who first came up with the idea of spreading the word about the scene? Day[9] when in one of his dailies he encouraged people to talk to their friends and introduce them to StarCraft. Did this really do much? Not really. I'd imagine due to his viewership quite a few people probably did try this and met little success. Hell, even /r/starcraft were into the whole 'raising awareness' thing for a while, to the point where at their peak they almost-unanimously bombed an AskReddit thread from a guy trying to get reddit to pick his hobby. Result: This guy played SC2 for a whole year, watched streams, streamed himself, laddered for a while and seemed a bit indifferent towards this hobby to the point where I think he pretty much abandoned it after the year was up. I tried introducing like.... 5 friends into it. Their reaction? Either complete disinterest or belligerence towards the idea of e-sports and watching video games as if they were a sport. And these were all regular gamers too. I hope people don't take his suggestion seriously. This awareness raising never works. | ||
|
Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:49 bokeevboke wrote: How on earth, making content not free is gonna increase viewership? You should really find interview with Sundance, where he tries to explain why they implemented PPV. Its not because they care about esports, its because it was a very expensive hobby to run MLG. What does it mean to support scene? Do we blindly follow it? Everytime there is tournament we have to tune in to provide more viewership its nonsense. You can't just watch sc2 for the sake of scene. Viewers need a entertainment, excitement, 'oooahh' moments, which is clearly not happening. Because Blizzard didn't make a good enough esports game. Thats why people are complaining all around. Stop blaming community. We are not always good, but its not our fault that game sucks. It's not about increasing the viewership. It's about increasing the income a tournament would make and making your business model sustainable. I recall MLG being quite reliant on sponsor funding to the point where they have something like... 12 sponsors. What if a few were to pull out of e-sports? EDIT: And this is going to seem like blasphemy saying this on a StarCraft progaming scene forum but if you don't like the game and think it sucks then why are you playing it and following the scene? There are loads of better multiplayer games by that definition which certainly deserve a competitive scene and the same if not more success than StarCraft II had so far. That's the big crux of the matter, as long as people continue to play the game and follow it, Blizzard realisitically have no reason to give a bigger shit. I once proposed on /r/starcraft that people just stop playing and following the scene if they dislike it so much, perhaps even doing another boycott like what (never actually) happened with Modern Warfare 2's removal of Dedicated Server support and SC2's removal of LAN support and Diablo III's always online DRM. I argued that perhaps if people hit Activision Blizzard in the wallet then they might shit bricks and start to radically change the game for the better instead of saying that things are "Coming Soon™" and then doing nothing. Result? Mass downvotes and accusations of me killing esports... | ||
|
iamtheoneneo
144 Posts
On October 28 2012 22:51 Clbull wrote: iNcontroL's living in Narnia clearly. This! Incontrol for some reason is literally on another planet blissfully ignorant of the issues at hand. His suggestion was lol worthy in the extreme. People dont watch the game or spread the word because its BORING. how many times do we have to say this before the pros/money makers in the scene realise this? what when theres zero viewers will they realise? im sure he will change his tune when the pennies stop dropping. | ||
| ||
