EPTBlizzard rarely posts here on teamliquid.net and i don't see any involvement what so ever. Even tho they might read from this site from time to time but it's not enough.
Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 30
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
Blizzard rarely posts here on teamliquid.net and i don't see any involvement what so ever. Even tho they might read from this site from time to time but it's not enough. | ||
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Anzekay
Australia63 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:50 Boonbag wrote: thing is this never happened with BW, nobody ever raged at blizzard Honestly, I'd be incredibly surprised if there was no blizzard-directed rage, even on a smaller scale to fit the smaller playerbase. Even so, BW days were a totally different ballgame, and the way in which gamers view the products, and the studios who make them, today is vastly different to how they did back then. Along with numerous other factors. That's sort of the point, really. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:52 Anzekay wrote: Honestly, I'd be incredibly surprised if there was no blizzard-directed rage, even on a smaller scale to fit the smaller playerbase. Even so, BW days were a totally different ballgame, and the way in which gamers view the products, and the studios who make them, today is vastly different to how they did back then. Along with numerous other factors. That's sort of the point, really. I dont deny this at all and tbh, I really think all the actual rage stems from the fanbase misreading of blizzard's intent. Blizzard thought esports as a marketing value while it was really the opposite. Now all we have to do is cry for a kickstarter project for a RTS competitive game. It's really doable I think. But SC2 for sure, isn't the RTS esports successor that is needed atm. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
The sentiment towards Blizzard today is nothing like it was in the past. Not just in the realm of SC2 but overall | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:49 Anzekay wrote: Honestly, there are fundamental issues with Destiny's arguments that essentially make it all just boil down to a but of blizzard-directed rage and hate. It's really nothing new at all, I've seen everything he's outlined before, and there's little of it that is based on more than mere emotion and personal opinion (and that's the bit about Korean PC bangs, which is definitely a real statistic). There's just so much more at play in regards to SC2 esports, as well as the esports scene in general, and how SC2 is going as a game overall, than he even gets close to touching on. To think that it is entirely Blizzard's fault is not only juvenile, but almost completely inaccurate. It's just another rage post by random SC2 personality #353 It is almost entirely blizzard's fault. They decide how the game looks, they decide wether the game is fun or not. They decide to implement lan or not. If the game is great, it will be popular and people will play it as an e-sport. Bw didn't have any of the advantages sc2 had in terms of funding, advertising, hype build upon a predecessor,... and it still surives today and a lot of people play it because it's fun and fundamentally a great game. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport. I also don't agree with the part about casual versus competitive features. If you look at LoL and Dota the casuals aren't necessarily buying more skins than the competitive gamers. Skins itself are not a casual feature, and can be applied successfully in a competitive, as well as a casual game. Dota uses a top-down approach where they start with competitive play and expect this to trickle down. I think the success of BroodWar in Korea relied on competitive play first, casual play second. There are even the success stories of mods such as Dota1 and Counter-Strike, where accessibility was not the primary concern. The reason these games succeeded is off of competitive play. Presenting features for casual players in a clear and easy to use manner is very important, however you don't need to go so far as to say your focus needs to be on those. Just take care of casual players properly and find the right balance. In order to be a successful esport, there is no need at all to put casuals first. Asking game developers to put casuals first is a step in the wrong direction, asking them to take care of casuals properly is what we need from them. It is undeniable that Blizzard has a lot of things they could be doing that would make things better for us. Issues with buying multiple accounts for each server, all the server switching, the poor latencies between the servers, skins, logo integration, name changes. It doesn't matter that I disagree with a couple points Destiny makes, the fact that this post exists is a good thing. | ||
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pique
143 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:49 Anzekay wrote: Honestly, there are fundamental issues with Destiny's arguments that essentially make it all just boil down to a but of blizzard-directed rage and hate. It's really nothing new at all, I've seen everything he's outlined before, and there's little of it that is based on more than mere emotion and personal opinion (and that's the bit about Korean PC bangs, which is definitely a real statistic). There's just so much more at play in regards to SC2 esports, as well as the esports scene in general, and how SC2 is going as a game overall, than he even gets close to touching on. To think that it is entirely Blizzard's fault is not only juvenile, but almost completely inaccurate. It's just another rage post by random SC2 personality #353 Obviously this isn't new information. The statistics on Korean internet cafes have been telling the same story for over a year now. That doesn't mean it's an invalid argument. It takes time for an idea to gather momentum. If the community as a whole can be united on what needs to change then it becomes a lot easier for Blizzard, as caterers (in part) to that community, to apply appropriate changes. At the end of the day, no amount of "supporting esports" will make up for the fact that sc2 is second-rate in terms of marketability. Blizzard are starting to act as if they care about changing this, but it seems anything short of a reinvented game in time for HotS will fail to recuperate lost market share. I'm interested to hear more about these other aspects of esports that Destiny's argument is "totally neglecting" and how they relate to the issue at hand. Do tell. | ||
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Frankenberry
Denmark302 Posts
Yes if Blizzard fixed these point more people would play "SC II" (not necessarily 1v1 ranked ladder games or even teamgames, but spend time within the game) and this could lead to a bigger marked, a bigger audience. However I simply disagree with this part: Starcraft 2 is suffering from a lot of problems. It has been from the very beginning, but Blizzard has failed to address them time and time and time again. They are continually proving themselves utterly incompetent when it comes to managing a game as a competitive sport backed by a casual community. People, ESPECIALLY people in this community seem to fail to realize that a game's competitive success lives or dies by its casual accessibility. Yeah, in a dream world we all want this ULTRA CUT-THROAT COMPETITIVE FUCK YOUR FACE game where OH MY FUCKING GOD SKILL CEILING SO HIGH NO MULTIPLE BILDING SIELECT FUK AUTO-MICRO OH MY GOD SO COMPETITIVEEE!1111...But in the real world, no one wants to play that game except competitive people. Competitive games are not fun. I study social science, politology and marketing strategy and ultimately I firmly believe if your core service (in this case, entertainment) isn't good enough, people will sooner or later abandon the service (in this case SC II as a viewer sport) (there is of course a scholar debate on these issues. This is a personal opinion and not written in stone as a universal truth). Also last year I wrote a big paper on E-sports growth in Denmark, and how to create an effective Marketing strategy for Copenhagen Games (A danish E-sport tournament) =) The main problem for SC II imho is that the game simply isn't entertaining enough. A strategy game (from a viewer point of view) has to have strategic depth, a high skill ceiling and most importantly a lot of action. Now of course you could always debate that SC II has all these things, but there are a few things that speak against this. A lot of SC II games end up with 2 big deathballs, 1 side comes out on top and wins the game. The problem is that often the action before this point is very limited. At some point I believe (again a personal opinion) that the audience will become bored of this tendency and will move on to a better show, or completely abandon E-sports. I never played broodwar (okay played the campaign a few times). Not even a single online game and yet still I enjoy watching those old games on youtube, because the strategy is deep, the skill ceiling is insanely high and the action is almost nonstop from start to finish. If SC II is to survive, they need to (in some way) implement more action before the big clash of two giant armies. Once you have a solid product, the audience will stick around for the longer term. If Blizzard neglect this and only focuses on destiny's points, SC II would end up as the next LoL (imho LoL is a dying game - Especially as an E-sport). Is this post the absolute truth on this issue? Absolutely not, but I still feel Destiny is way to focused on aiming the product at a (bigger) segment, that in the short term would bring more attention and prizemoney to SC II, but in the long term wont stick around to make it the E-sport we all want it to be. | ||
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
One big problem of HOTS and the reason, why there is nearly no hype around it, is that nearly all new units and features are bullshit! The warhound is allready gone for that reason. The widow mine was an expensive worse spider mine that hits air first and is now a bad cloaked siege tank that hits air (which makes it ok). The battle hellion is a firebat without stim, that can be repaired.... This is just nothing I look forward to as a terran... The Oracle is just a nonsense unit, that has barely any impact on the game and can be substituted in every way much better by the current set of units. The Tempest is very similar to the warhound - boring as shit and either OP or not relevant. The Mothership Core..... I never got what Blizzard wants to bring into the game with that... And with the changes it got so far it seems Blizzard doesn't know either. I'm not a protoss player, but if I were, I would stick to the current set of units and play with it, because you have much more interesting options with them! The Viper, I can't say for sure, but at first its abilities seemed very much imbalanced in the current metagame to me, but it's problem might be, that the infestor is just better - well this this goes for every unit in the game, but the Viper has the problem, that it doesn't add anything to the zerg army to support the infestor and nullify its weakpoints (which is HP/mobility/range). The Swarm Host. I really don't get why Zerg, the race who has the infestor with its infested terrans, needs another unit producing unit... We all figured out how strong infested terrans are in the past few months, maybe it was too late for Blizzard to realize that this unit is more or less an infestor without fungal....xX I think Zerg got the Viper to look forward to. This unit has some very strong spells, at least in the TvZ matchup and will become useful sooner or later. The Swarm host is just irrelevant since infested terrans are allready pretty good! The new features for the current units are not that great either with the exception for ultralisk charge for Zerg (which should be damn imbalanced too, but that's only my oppionion). All in all HotS is just nothing to look forward too for most players because the new units suck. And Blizzard needs to realize that very soon, throw the current set of units they want to bring in to the garbage and work on new stuff, that fits better. If the expansion takes another 6months before we go into a new beta, than it still might turn out to be better for the game, than to completely throw away this expansion and get SC2 dying before the 3rd expansion is ready! | ||
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Denique
Finland42 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
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HoLe
Canada183 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On October 17 2012 22:11 HoLe wrote: Agree that Blizzard is lazy, or at least the sc2 department is. The WoW guys seem to be much more creative. Getting some of the WoW guys over to the sc2 department could be cool WoW creative ? the hell man its the same stuff since 10 years | ||
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
That's the major reason SC2 will never do what BW did. | ||
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hpTheGreat
United States173 Posts
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blug
Australia623 Posts
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
Besider that I think the part about missing UMS maps everbody plays is absolutely true. | ||
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