EPTIt seems to me that 'top down' plans to change the tournament scene won't do much. It needs to be 'bottom up'. Think of it as a pyramid structure, with GSL/MLG/IEM/Dreamhack at the top, minor daily or weekly tournaments with small prizes in the middle, and at the bottom casual players who just play for the lulz or in-game rewards. Right now, the base is simply not there.
Tourney fatigue investigated as potential problem - Page 5
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dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
It seems to me that 'top down' plans to change the tournament scene won't do much. It needs to be 'bottom up'. Think of it as a pyramid structure, with GSL/MLG/IEM/Dreamhack at the top, minor daily or weekly tournaments with small prizes in the middle, and at the bottom casual players who just play for the lulz or in-game rewards. Right now, the base is simply not there. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
3) Is the major issue with SC2. There are way to many events going on and most of them take up an entire weekend. As a professional, with a full life and tons to do on the weekend. I can rarely devote an entire weekend to anything one thing, let alone sitting and watching one tournament. Right now I watch GSL by VODs and NASL, because they are nightly events and I can enjoy them at any time. They also provide entertainment beyond just the event, though casting and production. Personally, I have found it challenging to even be aware of all the tournaments that are out there. But another, unaddressed problem is this: Starcraft 2 tournaments take to fucking long. Period. They take up to much of people’s time between games or to many games in one night. I have found it impossible to get any of my very nerdy friends into SC2 because every event takes forever to get to the games and valuable enjoyable material. Spinning logos, shots of crowds and other boring side shows make it impossible to recommend any event to anyone that is not already a super fan. Even NASL takes five hours to get through all of its games A NIGHT. No person with a full time job has enough free time to watch and enjoy all the stuff that is out there. Hell, even Artosis can’t keep up. As the audience for SC2 grows, the events need to be focused more on people having limited free time. Most sports fans only watch 1-3 major games a week. Those games do not take up 4-6 hours of their time. I really feel SC2 events need to be refined down, cut out the chaff and focus more on having a tight, well made series of games. If that means fewer games, I think the community will be OK with that. But right now, there is to much out there and a lot of it does not matter. | ||
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robih
Austria1084 Posts
as long as there is not one regulating SC2 association it's survival of the fittest | ||
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Gojira621
United States374 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19152 Posts
TLDR: If there was a "help a tournament" thread then I would be able to participate in helping tournament organizer like many others would love too. I for one like feeling important  | ||
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
A) I want a 'Starcraft World Cup', like in footballl (soccer). A massive, rare, tournament that is 'THE' tournament. That would be exciting. My issue right now is that there is no "the" tournament, so it means they ALL feel like minor tournaments. B) In many big tournaments / leagues of other sports, the events take place over weeks. In starcraft 2, for some reason, we try to cram exactly the same amount of games played but in, typically, a weekend. Why? | ||
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
Another point is that there's way too many players to follow. Most sports are team sports but indivual sports as Tennis...do you really give a shit about #11 seed unless he's your brother...of course you don't. I guess it's the same with SC2...i don't really care about Vortix or JRecco or Bling because they aren't top tier players but maybe 11-20 seeds players...same could be said for Koreans too. I think Blizzard has to go further if they want SC2 to remain a top esports title. If not, more and more viewers will get tired of it. | ||
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GriMeR
United States148 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
Part of the problem is people are becoming less interested in sc2. Another reason why the scene is not growing is because there aren't enough NEW FANS. Bring more people into the scene. That is what you need to do. More people=more money. Perhaps you should worry about introducing more people to sc2 than limiting the amount of tournaments/content. sc2 is competing with the whole gaming industry. There are plenty of games to play, let alone watch. Shrinking the amount of tournaments is not going to solve the problem of "x" organizers not making the money they hoped/visioned. It's not going to make SC2 "exclusive" either. You need to expand the general audience that enjoys sc2. Introduce more people to the game. Get people interested. Now on the other hand, I have been watching/playing sc2 since the beta. I used to watch tons of content every week. I used to play 10 hours a day. Now I barely play anymore. The game for me has become stagnate and boring. Throughout all the patches in sc2, MOST but not all of the fun aggressive micro oriented playstyles have become eliminated. It has become mainly a sit/camp macro fest. There is not much action to that. I only watch a couple players I like. I watch very few events nowadays. Why? SC2 just isn't extremely exciting/entertaining for me anymore. I've found other things that I enjoy doing. I'm sure this has happened to quite a few players/viewers. SC2 is a very unique game in ALMOST its own genre. There aren't many popular RTS games at all. SC2 is the most popular RTS but RTS isn't the most popular genre. The viewer base is limited right there. Another thing. I can't find the post right now. But there has been a couple threads on TL about the amount of players on sc2 b.net from season to season. The numbers have been trending down. Going lower and lower. Fewer people are playing and I'm sure that has a HUGE impact on viewership. You need to get more people interested in sc2 in general. But thats extremely hard IMO. The game costs money and has a high skill cap. Now on a side note, watching 2 people behind a caster desk cast replays is not exciting for me. Sure I get to see some of my favorites play but it just doesn't compare to say watching a basketball game live on tv. Some events are just doing it wrong. Look at Dreamhack. Look at the MLG championship. Its a live event that people can attend. This is great. Now on the other hand we have MLG Arena/MVP invitational, 99% of the other content out there is behind a desk or some stupid overlay with replays. Its boring. Its shit. And its not very fun to watch. Sure I MIGHT tune in to see one player but how can you expect a non-hardcore fan to even get into that? It just seems like a couple nerds talking. Man so exciting.... ZZZZZZZZ... It puts me to sleep. But I think most people are just doing it wrong as well as the general amount of people interested in sc2 has been declining. Change the approach at how events are ran and introduce more people to sc2 and numbers will increase. Nothing will stop people from running tournaments or events except if they don't see that it is worth their time. Trying to put a cap on it will only benefit those already established and thus monopolize the tournament industry. It is extremely greedy. Worst idea ever IMO. Your idea of making a rule to eliminate competition from organizers is well to put it frank, greedy and retarded. O one more thing, stop suggesting that its a fan's responsibility to tell people about event's/sc2. It's not our responsibility. If you want your damn numbers higher than you go tell someone. Don't ever, EVER, try to tell someone what their responsibility is when you are not their parent/boss/employer. Who do you think you are? You are crossing the line. WE DON"T HAVE TO DO SHIT. We aren't responsible for selling someone's business or esports or sc2 for that matter. | ||
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Meatloaf
Spain664 Posts
The Format of TSL or GSL is just the greatest at the moment to follow as a viewer , and even then i can complain about missing stuff , we have jobs and families you know! so yeah , weekend tournaments are crap spectator wise and also the hype between matches is much lower as there is no anticipation , interviews and storylines during it as it all happens inmmediately. | ||
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DensitY
New Zealand74 Posts
for SC2, there is just a lot of tournament content, and outside korea they are normally weekend marathons (asus's tournament, mlg, IEM). In early 2011 it was a nice balance.. you'd have some GSL going for a couple of nights at the end of the week, then once every 3 months an MLG/IEM/Dreamhack weekend tournament. Now it seems like there is a weekend tournament every other week, with GSL almost running nightly and other tournaments like OSL, WCS etc all going.. I'm 30, I can't throw every weekend into this, I just can't.. I can't maintain excitement week after week after week, its tiring. I need it to build up.. So now I cherry pick, and wipe my mind of most other events so I have something to build up excitement over. -- Weekend tournaments need to drop down to something like once every 2-3 months. League based tournaments I'm not sure about, only GSL matches my time-zone (9pm start) so I simply ignore the others. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
When it comes to mass games during the foreign tournaments I think that tournaments should setup a main stream with a lower pace between games and will act as a hub for all of the streams. Asus ROG with incontrol and 2GD were the first ones to venture into that kind of territory successfully. "The hub" can do highlights from other games, have discussions and prerecorded videos (featuring different players, strategy and fluff). While other streams can have more of traditional mass games approach with games after games after games. | ||
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
On October 16 2012 02:08 ReachTheSky wrote: O one more thing, stop suggesting that its a fan's responsibility to tell people about event's/sc2. It's not our responsibility. If you want your damn numbers higher than you go tell someone. Don't ever, EVER, try to tell someone what their responsibility is when you are not their parent/boss/employer. Who do you think you are? You are crossing the line. WE DON"T HAVE TO DO SHIT. We aren't responsible for selling someone's business or esports or sc2 for that matter. Don't tell me what to do. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On October 16 2012 02:08 ReachTheSky wrote: Wait, what? did i miss something? :OO one more thing, stop suggesting that its a fan's responsibility to tell people about event's/sc2. It's not our responsibility. If you want your damn numbers higher than you go tell someone. Don't ever, EVER, try to tell someone what their responsibility is when you are not their parent/boss/employer. Who do you think you are? You are crossing the line. WE DON"T HAVE TO DO SHIT. We aren't responsible for selling someone's business or esports or sc2 for that matter. | ||
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HiTeK532
Canada171 Posts
The sheer number of players involved in SC2 is a little overwhelming it gets dam near impossible to keep up with. Perhaps having some sort of pro circuit would be beneficial as then all the tournaments would be inter connected and they could advertise for each other and be able to have some sort of player standings. Personally I used to just use SOTG to keep up with everything ,but when that stopped suddenly I had no idea what was going on in the scene anymore so my whole opinion on everything might change once it comes back. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
This was in regards to: (4) The same points as in point 3, but adding the following: Every party has a responsibility to improve the viewership experience for the audience. This means a fan needs to tell his friends about SC2/tourneys/eSports; a tournament organization needs to raise her own production value; a player needs to go above and beyond "just playing" by becoming actually involved; would-be writers, people from the community with passion need to start covering tourneys; etc; basically anyone who can do anything needs to start doing it. The theme of point 4 is: "We dont have time to let the hype and growth of (SC2) eSports die off or decline before *maybe* it gets super big in the year 2030 after our own active followership." That is not to say I wouldn't try to share what I enjoy spending my time on with friends/family as I have tried to because i'd like more real life people i know to enjoy the game with. But to say that this is someone's responsibility do to this is outside of anyone's jurisdiction but their own. To even suggest this is absurd. What a brilliant way to control someone's actions by trying to influence/suggest what someone's beliefs/responsibilties and get them to work for free....NOT. Sorry I'm not a sucker. Seen that shit a mile away and I'll call it out every time. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
I shall Email you posthaste >:D | ||
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xShoeicide
New Zealand41 Posts
It used to be exciting to wait and watch MLG's. This was because it was the one time when the biggest dawgs (so to speak) would clash. Now the best players are always playing in so man trivial tournaments. I would suggest that potentially there is also an element that the teams/players could hold off the tournaments they enter to make them more desirable. A balance between "lots of time on air" vs "scarcity which boosts their demand". Summary: I used to loose my shit waiting for MLG & GSL. Now GSL is the only event that I'm impressed by because it has prestige. Sure the best players are in WCS, NASL, MLG Arenas but I just don't care they need to mean something and be building to a crescendo. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On October 15 2012 21:18 pooMonger wrote: Americans are the largest consumers of SC2 content (I vaguely remember hearing incontrol saying this), so this 'suffering' of viewership seems to be somewhat intertwined with that in mind. If we look back to the time when SC2 was growing and flourishing (years 0-1.4) we had seminal figures like IdrA, Huk, Jinro, all with their respective and attractive (in the media sense) personalities. Not certain you were technically implying it, but in case other people read it and get confused; Jinro is Swedish. On October 15 2012 22:12 aka_star wrote: 6) stop letting non professional casters cast in tournaments, I find it so annoying listening to commentators go on about irrelevant things like warcraft 3 during an sc2 game especially for longer than 5 minutes, Or blizzard employs casting games making a mockery out of it because they don't know whats really going on. It might sound like a great idea behind the scenes but it comes across as an eye roll and I have to mute the stream which means I can't talk good about the tournament experience to other potential fans. If that's a cheapshot at Joro&Rob combo this weekend I call foul good sir. | ||
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