On September 27 2012 02:46 Leetley wrote: ESF players realised that the tournament is bad and they would feel bad if they participated in it. This is just MLG trying cash in with the famous KeSPA players and no caring. I never liked you much, MLG.
If only DreamHack had the resources to open a circuit in the States...
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward. Did I mention that the eSF players have to go through harder competition as well?
On September 27 2012 02:34 eleaf wrote: Didnt care about MLG about one year ago. This tournament is full of hyper and the quality of the tournament went down and down during this year. They had the best resources while Starcraft II tournament began to blow, yet they did not use it wisely and waste it on whatever extended series, whatever horrible seeding method/tournament format, whatever PPV & whatever MvP....
Koreans (eSF players) paid a lot (either from their team or from fans/sponsors) to MLG and they make MLG more shining than other tournament, but their effort/money is easily neglected by MLG. Time to put resources more smartly.
yes, ESF players have paid so much for those free trips that MLG gives them to play in there tournaments....
I knew there is going to be someone thinking like this. eSF players paid from themselves (team/ fans/sponsors) much much more to MLG than any other tournaments. If only invited paid eSF players can go, MLG is no big than IPL/DH today. Those team/fans/sponsors paid eSF players to MLG coz this is the only highly exposed foreigner tournament and they have to trust it. Now MLG turned behind their back, how would you do? Put more money into the holes?
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
You are correct. MLG has said multiple times that this will be the case.
On September 27 2012 02:34 eleaf wrote: Didnt care about MLG about one year ago. This tournament is full of hyper and the quality of the tournament went down and down during this year. They had the best resources while Starcraft II tournament began to blow, yet they did not use it wisely and waste it on whatever extended series, whatever horrible seeding method/tournament format, whatever PPV & whatever MvP....
Koreans (eSF players) paid a lot (either from their team or from fans/sponsors) to MLG and they make MLG more shining than other tournament, but their effort/money is easily neglected by MLG. Time to put resources more smartly.
yes, ESF players have paid so much for those free trips that MLG gives them to play in there tournaments....
I knew there is going to be someone thinking like this. eSF players paid from themselves (team/ fans/sponsors) much much more to MLG than any other tournaments. If only invited paid eSF players can go, MLG is no big than IPL/DH today. Those team/fans/sponsors paid eSF players to MLG coz this is the only highly exposed foreigner tournament and they have to trust it. Now MLG turned behind their back, how would you do? Put more money into the holes?
What? You realize that the only Korean's that have paid their way to MLG are those who have gone through the open bracket right? The majority of the Koreans that attend have been in group play, MLG covered those costs last year with their deal with GOM and they pay for everyone in group play this year. Very few ESF players have covered their own trips. FXO usually sends two, SlayerS and TSL have sent a handful as well.
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
I only read the announcement itself, I didn't see the actual brackets.
KeSPA players will only get four seeds according to these brackets? Huh...I might have actually preferred it if they had the chance to get all eight. These brackets are even more hilarious than I thought. NA representation is equal to the EU and eSF representation combined so they automatically get two seeds. What exactly is the point of this qualifier?
On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote: so like is anyone going to answer my question
On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:
On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:
On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote: I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership. MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other. To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'. MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done.
I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited.
tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now"
I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise.
They never announced they were seeding 8 KeSPA players, there were talking about MKP and Leenock were part of seeds, then it just blew up and we had a bunch random seeds. No one would retroactively get pissed about someone who didn't show up got invited.
Why didn't they invite MKP and Leenock then? They were at the event in the open bracket lol...Leenock won from the open bracket!
MLG never announced who they were seeding, until 2 days before we got a bunch random seeds. MLG was thinking about seeding KeSPA players but people didn't know that. How you expect people to get mad about something they didn't know? After it blew up with random seeds people were too busy bitching about the actual seeds. And bitching something that didn't happen anyway seems rather pointless, no?
You seriously think it was not going to be Kespa players? Everyone I know had assumed it was going to be kespa players, and from everything I read on TL everyone else thought the same thing.
They ended up inviting random foreigners who played in the arena and online qualifiers for the arena ( they didn't even win the qualifiers for the ARENA and they invited them to group play at the championship!! ) over good ESF Korean players because Kespa decided to not send anyone.
It doesn't have to be an official announcement to see something clearly.
The biggest part of community doesn't care about these things unless you tell them explicitly about it.
Everyone should've already guessed this event would be PPV when MLG first announced its existence but they're only complaining now because the broadcast schedule was released yesterday and Reddit and Inside the Game brought it to people's attention.
The composition of the player pool was known about a week ago, but only today people are butthurt that ESF players were "snubbed" because only now they actually read the relevant threads.
Since it didn't happen, potential KeSPA seeds were completely irrelevant for most. We only like to complain when it's already way too late.
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
So Kespa will get 4 spots in group play for Dallas. If ESF is actually upset about this, well then i don't know what to say. There will be more esf players than Kespa or Foreigners at Dallas. I really don't see the problem here.
Trolol, ESF trying to ram it home that KESPA isn't as big and bad as they think they are. Though it's kinda silly, since MLG and GOMTV broke up and left MLG wide-open to partner with KESPA. Did ESF not realize that this kind of shit would happen? It's only natural that the teams that are partnered with MLG will get the preferential treatment and the 5-7 ezpz seeds.
I mean, I stand beside ESF all the way. Anyone who can try and stand up to KESPA is a good thing in my book. But I can't help but think that this is a bit of "Oh shit, we let this happen."
MLG has to learn from the recent issues in the NFL. INTEGRITY of the game is everything. When tournaments start picking who they want to see through it ruins the sport and this is exactly what MLG is doing by the brackets. That bracket guarantees 4 Kespa players no matter the skill level. That's just absolutely wrong. You're watching a show instead of a competition. If this was by itself the issue wouldn't be as big but, attaching this to the Championship is what ruffled feathers.
Slasher, you wrote about the ESF & Kespa clash, but you ignored how this invitational could be a form of compensation for when Kespa was invited to the last MLG and couldn't in the last minute?
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
No that's right. Since Liquipedia wasn't sourced I checked it on the MLG website also (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/52#event-format). I can understand why the eSF would refuse to play given the circumstances. They will only have one spot compared to KESPA's 4.
It would be nice if they actually seeded players throughout the bracket based on standing (1-16, 2-15, 3-14 etc) or at the very least divided it up so its 2KESPA, 2eSF, 2NA, 2 EU. If they want to invite players through a non-open qualifier they should just invite them instead of this farce of a tournament.
On September 27 2012 02:47 TheLastTemplar wrote: Lol its all going to be online, winners gets all the money..... I cant believe they just shunned the people who have helped them so much, they just pooped on a really good business relationship imo. I'm a bit upset with mlg and how they are doing this. if u agree dont buy it!!!!!!!!! if u don't agree with me, buy it!.
Well, MLG and ESF don't have a good business relationships since Naniwa / GSTL @ IPL. KeSPA thing just add to it.
On September 27 2012 02:34 ArvickHero wrote: if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
I think everyone agrees on that ESF is getting an unfair treatment here and that KESPA are, atleast, in part to blame. However its a very small tournament, prolly why we aren't seeing a bigger nerdstorm.
I don't agree at all. The KR/TW qualifier is just esf players, the top 8 from mlg raleigh is esf players. and esf players were invited to the MvP. They were getting plenty of opportunities for the free trip to Dallas.
Only 3 players can get through the KR/TW qualifiers. Up to 8 KeSPA players can qualify through the MvP Invitational, and with the current player base it looks like at least 5 seeds will go to them. The KeSPA players didn't go through any qualifiers for the invitational, while the eSF players have to go through two rounds of qualifiers for potentially less seeds and no monetary reward.
Am I reading the Liquipedia bracket wrong? It looks like NA will get 2, EU will get 1, non-kespa KR will get 1 and kespa will get 4 seeds?
No that's right. Since Liquipedia wasn't sourced I checked it on the MLG website also (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/52#event-format). I can understand why the eSF would refuse to play given the circumstances. They will only have one spot compared to KESPA's 4.
It would be nice if they actually seeded players throughout the bracket based on standing (1-16, 2-15, 3-14 etc) or at the very least divided it up so its 2KESPA, 2eSF, 2NA, 2 EU. If they want to invite players through a non-open qualifier they should just invite them instead of this farce of a tournament.
but eSF players are getting spots in the KR/TW qualifiers and made up 7 of the top 8 from Raleigh that get to go to Dallas.
EPT
