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On September 27 2012 02:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:19 Brainling wrote:
It's amazing how fast this community can turn on you. A little more than a year ago, we were bowing down at MLG's feet for making SC2 their main stage game. Now MLG has the audacity to run a one off special event touranment where they invite who they'd like, and the whole community turns on them, without having any facts to back it up.
We haven't even gotten a real statement yet, just FXOBoss running his mouth trying to stir up fervor (what? FXOBoss running his mouth to try and sway public opinion? Why I never). Funny how FXOBoss seems to insert himself in to every situation that pops up with KeSPA and SC2. This isn't the fist time he's decided it's a good idea to put out an "unofficial" statement that whips up a fervor on these forums.
In the end, to anyone looking at this objectively and with a business eye, the ESF players and the ESF look like bush league businessmen who are backing out of an agreed upon event because they are jelly they didn't get as many invites to a tournament meant specifically to showcase KeSPA players to an audience that hasn't gotten to see them a lot. It's not a major MLG event, it's not an Arena or a live tournament. It's a fan service event to give foreign fans a chance to watch KeSPA players with commentators we enjoy and at a time that's beneficial to us, rather than Korean re-streams or watching it at 2am. It's appearently a shocking business revelation to invite a bunch of KeSPA players to your tournament that's specifically about showcasing KeSPA players. Funny how you chide people for not being objective yet you cannot even get the basic facts right.
You do realize that saying "You didn't get the facts right", but posting zero corrections, makes you look pretty stupid right? If you're going to tell someone they are wrong, you better point out where, and what fact was wrong, otherwise you're just posting to post.
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Haha, I have never seen such biased brackets
It's so setup for "Best kespa vs best non-kespa" also "Stephano vs Korea" and "North America vs the World" even though NA top players cannot be compared to the best in Europe or Korea (ESF)
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well, its online event, so not a fan of that, now these players dropping out, not liking it so i am not watching this and just check the results. if it would be offline jaedong probably would make me wanna watch it but so...meh
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United States15275 Posts
On September 27 2012 02:26 Brainling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:On September 27 2012 02:19 Brainling wrote:
It's amazing how fast this community can turn on you. A little more than a year ago, we were bowing down at MLG's feet for making SC2 their main stage game. Now MLG has the audacity to run a one off special event touranment where they invite who they'd like, and the whole community turns on them, without having any facts to back it up.
We haven't even gotten a real statement yet, just FXOBoss running his mouth trying to stir up fervor (what? FXOBoss running his mouth to try and sway public opinion? Why I never). Funny how FXOBoss seems to insert himself in to every situation that pops up with KeSPA and SC2. This isn't the fist time he's decided it's a good idea to put out an "unofficial" statement that whips up a fervor on these forums.
In the end, to anyone looking at this objectively and with a business eye, the ESF players and the ESF look like bush league businessmen who are backing out of an agreed upon event because they are jelly they didn't get as many invites to a tournament meant specifically to showcase KeSPA players to an audience that hasn't gotten to see them a lot. It's not a major MLG event, it's not an Arena or a live tournament. It's a fan service event to give foreign fans a chance to watch KeSPA players with commentators we enjoy and at a time that's beneficial to us, rather than Korean re-streams or watching it at 2am. It's appearently a shocking business revelation to invite a bunch of KeSPA players to your tournament that's specifically about showcasing KeSPA players. Funny how you chide people for not being objective yet you cannot even get the basic facts right. You do realize that saying "You didn't get the facts right", but posting zero corrections, makes you look pretty stupid right? If you're going to tell someone they are wrong, you better point out where, and what fact was wrong, otherwise you're just posting to post.
A "fan service event" does not grant 8 seeds to the Fall Championship. A showmatch does not function as a qualifier to a major tournament.
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On September 27 2012 02:25 TBone- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:24 Dosey wrote:On September 27 2012 02:21 TBone- wrote:On September 27 2012 02:20 Deshkar wrote:
Given how ESF are the strongest MLG players, they probably feel snubbed at. understandable. I dont see why kespa should be overly favourited. Its because this is no longer about the competition, its about getting viewers and money, and right now, thats what kespa will bring. Really? KeSPA running over Foreigners in a rigged system is going to bring viewers? Not saying I agree with it or that it makes sense, but it feels like something MLG would try anyways.
It's kind of funny because if anyone was watching Flash vs Last in OSL this morning, they would have seen stream numbers worse than an evening broadcast of NASL. Yep, that's some massive viewership MLG is reigning in there 
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so like is anyone going to answer my question
On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise.
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On September 27 2012 02:24 Brainling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:20 Deshkar wrote:
Given how ESF are the strongest MLG players, they probably feel snubbed at. understandable. I dont see why kespa should be overly favourited. You mean other than the fact that the tournament is actually called MLG vs. KeSPA? I mean, yeah, other than that small fact, I see absolutely no reason a bunch of KeSPA players should have been invited.
I have no problem with MLG vs KeSPA, it's a great idea. What isn't as great an idea is give 8 seeds to championship group play. 2 seeds, go for it, but giving out 1/4 of total spot to a show match?
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The idea is nice ... but how the invites where handled its more a pr event, with a really slim chance of anyone but kespa getting positive pr out of it hehe.
I mean people love to use MLG to show that korea > foreigners. Not a hard task to fill the top line if you have tons of players there, so it looks like you were dominating.
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On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise.
They never announced they were seeding 8 KeSPA players, there were talking about MKP and Leenock were part of seeds, then it just blew up and we had a bunch random seeds. No one would retroactively get pissed about someone who didn't show up got invited.
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On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise.
I thought people were bitching about it? I was the most vocal about how they had already started their screwing over of eSF players by not giving MKP a seed but giving mediocre foreigners those seeds instead when they played the name number of matches in the Arena as MKP had while not having near the MLG track record he has.
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United States15275 Posts
On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise.
The "oohs" and "aaahs" at potentially seeing BW players in SC2 drowned out any attempt at logical thinking.
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Why is there even drama about this? It's a bloody online tournament with cross server lag and limited PPV exposure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with turning down invites and I'm not entirely convinced this is even an ESF issue. Maybe MKP and LosirA just didn't want to play in a weird format under these conditions.
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On September 27 2012 02:30 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise. They never announced they were seeding 8 KeSPA players, there were talking about MKP and Leenock were part of seeds, then it just blew up and we had a bunch random seeds. No one would retroactively get pissed about someone who didn't show up got invited.
Why didn't they invite MKP and Leenock then? They were at the event in the open bracket lol...Leenock won from the open bracket!
On September 27 2012 02:30 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise. I thought people were bitching about it? I was the most vocal about how they had already started their screwing over of eSF players by not giving MKP a seed but giving mediocre foreigners those seeds instead when they played the name number of matches in the Arena as MKP had while not having near the MLG track record he has.
There were definitely complaints but not nearly as bad as this, at least they are holding a " tournament " to decide who gets invited this time.
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Kinda lame, but I do understand why the ESF players turned this down.
Edit: Online event? Whatever, sucks for MLG.
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On September 27 2012 02:31 xBillehx wrote:
Why is there even drama about this? It's a bloody online tournament with cross server lag and limited PPV exposure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with turning down invites and I'm not even entirely convinced this is an ESF issue. Maybe MKP and LosirA just didn't want to play in a weird format under these conditions.
The problem is that 8 seeds (1/4 of total group play if same size) got handed out. That's...... alot.
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Didnt care about MLG about one year ago. This tournament is full of hyper and the quality of the tournament went down and down during this year. They had the best resources while Starcraft II tournament began to blow, yet they did not use it wisely and waste it on whatever extended series, whatever horrible seeding method/tournament format, whatever PPV & whatever MvP....
Koreans (eSF players) paid a lot (either from their team or from fans/sponsors) to MLG and they make MLG more shining than other tournament, but their effort/money is easily neglected by MLG. Time to put resources more smartly.
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On September 27 2012 02:32 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:30 ragz_gt wrote:On September 27 2012 02:29 Dodgin wrote:so like is anyone going to answer my question On September 27 2012 02:12 Dodgin wrote:On September 27 2012 02:11 Swords wrote:On September 27 2012 02:05 Fuego wrote:
I'm really surprised the ball hasn't dropped for everyone yet.
MLG and KeSPA have a partnership.
MLG and KeSPA decide to create a tournament together which involves their players fighting against each other.
To make it even more obvious they call it 'MLG vs Proleague'.
MLG invites half of the competitors from their roster of players (basically anyone who has attended an MLG) and KeSPA invites the other half of the competitors from their roster of players (see 'Proleague').
How is this unfair? If you want to bitch about it being unfair then surely you should bitch about the amount of foreigners being invited over the better GOM Koreans. I see no problem with what MLG have done. I understand this concept, and you are correct in most of your assertions. I think the problem a lot of people have with this is the results of this tournament influence future MLGs (Fall Championship, etc.) If they want to have a MLG vs. KeSPA tournament, then by all means they should do so, but they shouldn't have it affect future tournaments. This means all of the KeSPA players invited have an unfair advantage qualifying for MLGs over the ESF players. Since it's invite only as well, it means the KeSPA players don't even get in on merit, they get in by beating mostly each other, foreigners, and the small number of ESF players that were invited. tl;dr: MLG can and should have a joint MLG/KeSPA tournament, but that tournament can't invite a majority KeSPA players and then have a major influence over who gets to attend later tournaments. That does shaft the ESF players, basically saying "we value having KeSPA players on the circuit over the ESF players who helped get us where we are now" I'm still wondering where all the bitching was for Raleigh when they announced they were seeding in 8 Kespa players to the group stages although they had not earned it at all. They didn't end up going because it conflicted with Proleague but it would have happened otherwise. They never announced they were seeding 8 KeSPA players, there were talking about MKP and Leenock were part of seeds, then it just blew up and we had a bunch random seeds. No one would retroactively get pissed about someone who didn't show up got invited. Why didn't they invite MKP and Leenock then? They were at the event in the open bracket lol...Leenock won from the open bracket!
MLG never announced who they were seeding, until 2 days before actual championship when we got a bunch random seeds. MLG was thinking about seeding KeSPA players but people didn't know that. How you expect people to get mad about something they didn't know? After it blew up with random seeds people were too busy bitching about the actual seeds. And bitching something that didn't happen anyway seems rather pointless, no?
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I can't really comment about if the coming MLG event brackets are rigged or not because I don't fucking fully understand their system since MLG tries to complicate things as much as they can.
Regarding the extra slots for Kespa over ESF it's understandable why ESF won't participate.
Question is if MLG will do something about this? My bet is they won't and will simply run the tournament. Some people would even say that it's such a small tournament that it doesn't even matter.
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I'm still laughing at the fact that the ESF players who put MLG's SC2 scene on the map and basically gave MLG the biggest growth the company's ever seen from 2010 to 2011 is getting fucked over.
These players grew the scene at MLG and made it what it is today.
They have every right to be upset.
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10387 Posts
if this was KeSPA trying to pull this shit this thread would've exploded w/ outrage
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EPT
