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On September 14 2012 02:38 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 02:35 MenaceWarrior wrote:This isnt the first time Boss have been in scam´s on esports COD4 LAN SCAM (polish) so everyone whos saying he should get another change, this is his third one your giving to him Tell me... do you really think that Fuzer was misinformed about paying for the whole month up front? MoW got in trouble because they did not sign anything beforehand. Implying that this was intended to be a scam or a theft is an overkill.
You're right, Fuzer cannot claim complete innocence in any of this. Given the bits of information posted and the interpretations of people knowledgeable on such issues (i.e. FXOBoss), you can definitely say Fuzer was an idiot to agreeing to such terms in the first place.
The thing is, his mental makeup (just like his BM nature some people keep bringing up) is irrelevant in the larger issue of the credibility of MoW's upper management. That COD4 LAN piece is very important in this regard.
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On September 14 2012 01:26 Stropheum wrote:
I don't understand why this thread is so poorly recieved. .
Because people love drama sadly 
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On September 14 2012 02:48 saksy2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 02:44 ragz_gt wrote:On September 14 2012 02:41 saksy2 wrote:On September 14 2012 02:39 ragz_gt wrote:On September 14 2012 02:35 saksy2 wrote:On September 14 2012 02:27 Salazarz wrote:On September 14 2012 02:00 Noobity wrote:On September 14 2012 01:56 Salazarz wrote:
So, if the streaming thing is 'for the benefit of players' and is 'totally negotiable', why do you have a written contract specifically addressing the exact amount of hours each player is required to stream? It's not something Fuzer alone said, other players mentioned it in passing as well.
And why are you saying that 'a refund was offered, which Fuzer refused'? You make it sound like it was a genuine, unconditional offer of a refund - but previous posts already confirmed that you put it forward as another demand - 'either take the cash and shut up, or you aren't getting the money', essentially.
Last but not least, how does it make sense to give the player an ultimatum of either signing a contract that he is unhappy with, or leaving the house into which he had already settled, without giving him the opportunity of having the contract examined by someone more qualified of appraising it?
You try to sound nice and professional here, but all I'm seeing is a lot of really poor damage control and fluffy words that contradict reality. You'd be better off simply saying, 'Yeah, we fucked up with Fuzer. We'll try to do better in future' instead of this. Also, kittens? Seriously? If fuzer doesn't read the contract, or have a professional look at the contract over the course of a month then he can't negotiate it. What was the purpose of fuzer's post if not to attack MoW? Upon being attacked they decided that they would offer to unconditionally rectify the reason the attack took place, Fuzer declined. This is what attacks are supposed to do, create some sort of response. Fuzer got a response both out of the community and the MoW. Might not have been the correct response entirely, but it was a positive attempt. When the person being offered the ultimatum has had over a month to make adjustments to a part of that ultimatum then it makes complete sense. If you notice, they also didn't say "Yeah, we fucked up with fuzer" they say "We made mistakes handling the fuzer situation and offer our sincere apologies to him as well as the entire community" which is a huge difference. I wonder how many of you would care if we found out that Fuzer was back there next week and all was forgiven. I bet all the esports dollars there would be grudges held over issues that didn't have anything to do with us in the least. He couldn't have a professional look at the contract over the course of a month because MoW refused to provide a copy of the contract for anyone but himself to look at. How exactly is that his fault? Also, however critical Fuzer is, he is hardly 'attacking' MoW. He gave his recollection of the events, and provided ample evidence supporting his side of the story. It's not an attack, it's an explanation of the situation from his point of view; the fact that it puts MoW in bad light is hardly his fault if the stuff is actually true. It's just very hard to take any of their statements seriously. But several of his main arguments: (starving, not being part of another team house for 10 years, everyone having to stream 150 hours a month) were simply not true at all. Food problem is verified by MoW and other players. Did he exagerate? Probably. But it still an issue. The 10 year can't create own house thing was confirmed by others. 150 hour stream was also confirmed by multiple players. Just because MoW said they didn't enforce it (that's a bunch of BS, you don't put it in contract just for shits and giggles) doesn't mean it was not in the contract and was expected. Fuzer claimed you couldn't join another gaming house, which is pretty different from creating one. Other players also confirmed streaming hours were negotiable and not at all "forced to stream 150 hours" His claim was that he couldn't understand that part well (not native speaker) thus said what he thought it meant. It is a valid point and why he want his lawyer to look at it. If people give you a contract that says "150 hour streaming" how do you know it is negotiable and why does that make a difference anyway? Read the OP: Show nested quote +2. Ministry of Win does not enforce on players the amount of hours they have to stream. It is a part of a business contract and both parties negotiate an agreement. It obviously makes a difference as probably 20 pages of the last thread was devoted to complain how unhumane and counter-productive being forced to stream 150 hours a month is.
My point is MoW's claim does not make any sense. Fuzer obviously didn't came up with the 150 hour number, otherwise he wouldn't be upset. And why is it "a business contract" if they don't enforce it? Also, don't enforce something is NOT the same as not mandatory. Most work places do not enforce you work 40 hours a week, doesn't mean you don't need to.
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You don't post cat pictures here. WTF/§
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On September 14 2012 02:49 Avean wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:26 Stropheum wrote:
I don't understand why this thread is so poorly recieved. . Because people love drama sadly
"They posted pictures of kittens? FUCK MoW"
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It's really amazing how the more MoW talks the worse they look. Based on what the other pros at the house have said it seems like they're just learning to run a team house and everything is in flux as they try out new stuff (some of it successful, some of it not). That's honestly not that bad, if that's how it really is (and I don't see why Snute et. al. would lie).
The bigger problem to me seems to be that I'm not sure how capable MoW's management is after all these weird statements. It really isn't that hard to do semi-reasonable PR to deal with this situation, and they really come across as totally clueless and/or guilty.
If you couple incapable management with trying to learn to run a team house on the fly, then I don't see how this could possibly be a good training environment for the players there (especially if streaming is required). It's a good idea in theory, but if the people running it are trying to figure out how to run the house and present it properly on the fly, then I don't get why you'd want to pay to live there. It seems like a huge waste of money for the players.
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Have to comment on the FXO guys thing about Eastern European mindset: I worked in Prague for three years, and even the most insignificant HR person thinks they are god, and will ride their rules and regulations (of which there are myriad) as far as it goes, that is until someone that is not part of the power struggle slaps their wrists.
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I want to see the contracts of those kittens.
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Man, kittens, really?!
And you expect us to take you seriously?
I hope that stupid thing is gonna end soon, and well...
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On September 14 2012 02:47 KadaverBB wrote:Ugh, now we have 2 threads where people can shittalk Can't you (Fuzer and MoW) deal with this privately instead of making statements blaming the other? MoW will never win this argument anyway, fuzer (obviously) posted his accusations first and people had about 3 hours (60 pages) of time to make up their minds that Mow is the bad guy. Anything that is posted is of course a lie, misinformation and what not -.-
wow, you are clearly terrible at understanding who's in the wrong when there are at least two points of view. Kittens at the end of the OP might give a hint, try it. And the first thread appeared over 20 hours before this one, you are terrible at understanding timezones too.
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On September 14 2012 02:51 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 02:48 saksy2 wrote:On September 14 2012 02:44 ragz_gt wrote:On September 14 2012 02:41 saksy2 wrote:On September 14 2012 02:39 ragz_gt wrote:On September 14 2012 02:35 saksy2 wrote:On September 14 2012 02:27 Salazarz wrote:On September 14 2012 02:00 Noobity wrote:On September 14 2012 01:56 Salazarz wrote:
So, if the streaming thing is 'for the benefit of players' and is 'totally negotiable', why do you have a written contract specifically addressing the exact amount of hours each player is required to stream? It's not something Fuzer alone said, other players mentioned it in passing as well.
And why are you saying that 'a refund was offered, which Fuzer refused'? You make it sound like it was a genuine, unconditional offer of a refund - but previous posts already confirmed that you put it forward as another demand - 'either take the cash and shut up, or you aren't getting the money', essentially.
Last but not least, how does it make sense to give the player an ultimatum of either signing a contract that he is unhappy with, or leaving the house into which he had already settled, without giving him the opportunity of having the contract examined by someone more qualified of appraising it?
You try to sound nice and professional here, but all I'm seeing is a lot of really poor damage control and fluffy words that contradict reality. You'd be better off simply saying, 'Yeah, we fucked up with Fuzer. We'll try to do better in future' instead of this. Also, kittens? Seriously? If fuzer doesn't read the contract, or have a professional look at the contract over the course of a month then he can't negotiate it. What was the purpose of fuzer's post if not to attack MoW? Upon being attacked they decided that they would offer to unconditionally rectify the reason the attack took place, Fuzer declined. This is what attacks are supposed to do, create some sort of response. Fuzer got a response both out of the community and the MoW. Might not have been the correct response entirely, but it was a positive attempt. When the person being offered the ultimatum has had over a month to make adjustments to a part of that ultimatum then it makes complete sense. If you notice, they also didn't say "Yeah, we fucked up with fuzer" they say "We made mistakes handling the fuzer situation and offer our sincere apologies to him as well as the entire community" which is a huge difference. I wonder how many of you would care if we found out that Fuzer was back there next week and all was forgiven. I bet all the esports dollars there would be grudges held over issues that didn't have anything to do with us in the least. He couldn't have a professional look at the contract over the course of a month because MoW refused to provide a copy of the contract for anyone but himself to look at. How exactly is that his fault? Also, however critical Fuzer is, he is hardly 'attacking' MoW. He gave his recollection of the events, and provided ample evidence supporting his side of the story. It's not an attack, it's an explanation of the situation from his point of view; the fact that it puts MoW in bad light is hardly his fault if the stuff is actually true. It's just very hard to take any of their statements seriously. But several of his main arguments: (starving, not being part of another team house for 10 years, everyone having to stream 150 hours a month) were simply not true at all. Food problem is verified by MoW and other players. Did he exagerate? Probably. But it still an issue. The 10 year can't create own house thing was confirmed by others. 150 hour stream was also confirmed by multiple players. Just because MoW said they didn't enforce it (that's a bunch of BS, you don't put it in contract just for shits and giggles) doesn't mean it was not in the contract and was expected. Fuzer claimed you couldn't join another gaming house, which is pretty different from creating one. Other players also confirmed streaming hours were negotiable and not at all "forced to stream 150 hours" His claim was that he couldn't understand that part well (not native speaker) thus said what he thought it meant. It is a valid point and why he want his lawyer to look at it. If people give you a contract that says "150 hour streaming" how do you know it is negotiable and why does that make a difference anyway? Read the OP: 2. Ministry of Win does not enforce on players the amount of hours they have to stream. It is a part of a business contract and both parties negotiate an agreement. It obviously makes a difference as probably 20 pages of the last thread was devoted to complain how unhumane and counter-productive being forced to stream 150 hours a month is. My point is MoW's claim does not make any sense. Fuzer obviously didn't came up with the 150 hour number, otherwise he wouldn't be upset. And why is it "a business contract" if they don't enforce it? Also, don't enforce something is NOT the same as not mandatory. Most work places do not enforce you work 40 hours a week, doesn't mean you don't need to.
Also, I may have problem with mandatory streaming (why would a house people pay to go and get better require people stream, which have not shown to make people better?) but that's a separate issue. If it's in the contract, you understand it, you sign it, you do it.
What I HAVE a problem with is not tell people there is stream requirement (that nearly same as a full time job) before they got there. Which is confirmed by other players.
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Oh man you guys love your drama...even if it is a no name terran player in a small polish gaming house...
User was warned for this post
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Anyone else having flashbacks to eclypsia's marketing campaign with this joke of a post? Are you guys going to start posting meme contests too?
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On September 14 2012 02:48 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 02:38 scypio wrote:On September 14 2012 02:35 MenaceWarrior wrote:This isnt the first time Boss have been in scam´s on esports COD4 LAN SCAM (polish) so everyone whos saying he should get another change, this is his third one your giving to him Tell me... do you really think that Fuzer was misinformed about paying for the whole month up front? MoW got in trouble because they did not sign anything beforehand. Implying that this was intended to be a scam or a theft is an overkill. You're right, Fuzer cannot claim complete innocence in any of this. Given the bits of information posted and the interpretations of people knowledgeable on such issues (i.e. FXOBoss), you can definitely say Fuzer was an idiot to agreeing to such terms in the first place. The thing is, his mental makeup (just like his BM nature some people keep bringing up) is irrelevant in the larger issue of the credibility of MoW's upper management. That COD4 LAN piece is very important in this regard.
Upper management, yeah right... you realize that it is just a couple of guys running the whole thing, not some ExxxonPepsiGM conglomerate?
They tried something new (I never heard about another house working this way) and it seems they did pretty ok with most of the players that live(d) at MoW. They run into some unforeseen difficulties with Fuzer and failed to deal with them in a reasonable fashion.
They do blame themselves for failing do to so and promise to make amendments, I have no idea what shady stuff is left.
Yes, they failed with the lawyer and with the refund timing too. What else is there to do?
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This entire thread has people talking about kittens. Can we please talk about the actual issue at hand and not the cute gimmick they put at the end to lighten up the mood?
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Do Fuzer actually have a lawyer? It sounded weird somehow.
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On September 14 2012 02:53 Swords wrote:
It's really amazing how the more MoW talks the worse they look. Based on what the other pros at the house have said it seems like they're just learning to run a team house and everything is in flux as they try out new stuff (some of it successful, some of it not). That's honestly not that bad, if that's how it really is (and I don't see why Snute et. al. would lie).
The bigger problem to me seems to be that I'm not sure how capable MoW's management is after all these weird statements. It really isn't that hard to do semi-reasonable PR to deal with this situation, and they really come across as totally clueless and/or guilty.
If you couple incapable management with trying to learn to run a team house on the fly, then I don't see how this could possibly be a good training environment for the players there (especially if streaming is required). It's a good idea in theory, but if the people running it are trying to figure out how to run the house and present it properly on the fly, then I don't get why you'd want to pay to live there. It seems like a huge waste of money for the players.
Except all the other players who have commented have said they enjoyed their stay and they definitely improved. What's that, you didn't know that? Oh, so you're making blanket statements without being informed? I can't imagine that happening, I mean this is a reasonable and productive community reaction to a travesty of justice, after all.
I am so outraged, I just can't stand by idly in this time of moral peril while sinister esports bosses exploit young children like slave labor.
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People getting annoyed from the kittens needs to take a serious look in the mirror. How can cute little furry kittens make you dislike the post?!
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EPT
