Lol pallad how you mean? Blizz cant know how much will players play and how much will win. I dont understand what you wrote, except now is possible to be promoted in stronger diamond division from your own, which isnt the case
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
Again, They wrote not a thing about mixing divisions. What they are saying there is meant on average.
To really make work what they wrote in that post, people would have to be put into different divisions while the seasons last. And this - I can't image they would do this (although it would be cool imo)
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
There was not a single wording on this by Blizzard. If they start filling the divisions by player skill instead of "first come, first serve" now, this was 100% unannounced. I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have announced such a change. Which they didn't
Yes they Did
"The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
But nvm this disscusion make no seanse..you will see very soon who is right
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
And you are wrong here... blizzard WRITE
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
So going by your thinking , someone hit top 5 in bad division with 700 points when in toher divions have 1200 for same top places.. HOW TO HELL this person with 700 can be in top % of region .. when in other divisions players have much more points..
Now you see this or still no? THEY MUST make mixing divions or this makes no sense. So there will be mixing divions or blizzard lie in news simple
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
Look at the post I made above. If you still don't get it, I can't help you any further. Next time I will charge you for teaching you stuff. I'd happily like to see your face when you realize you were wrong ; )
edit. only because blizzard formulated their text idioticly and overall wrong shouldn't take away the ability for you to use your brain. Think about what you read and see. Stop just eating it and believing stuff blindly. Things like that never end well (see religion)
Man dont be stubborn, since you cant be promoted in other, stronger division of same league, divisions will not be balanced perfectly as you think. Maybe they will sort it by mmr but still they cant know how much is each player going to play nor win to achieve what are you talking about
On September 12 2012 00:45 DGB.Zerok wrote: Man dont be stubborn, since you cant be promoted in other, stronger division of same league, divisions will not be balanced perfectly as you think. Maybe they will sort it by mmr but still they cant know how much is each player going to play nor win to achieve what are you talking about
So the divisions that are created first will tend to be better.
But the point is that divisions are now ignorable.
FORGET DIVISIONS. You can now completely ignore them. Compare points or points minus bonus pool. Or look up your rank on SC2Ranks. Before these things could not be done. Now they can. Forget divisions.
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
There was not a single wording on this by Blizzard. If they start filling the divisions by player skill instead of "first come, first serve" now, this was 100% unannounced. I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have announced such a change. Which they didn't
Yes they Did
"The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
But nvm this disscusion make no seanse..you will see very soon who is right
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
And you are wrong here... blizzard WRITE "After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
So going by your thinking , someone hit top 5 in bad division with 700 points when in toher divions have 1200 for same top places.. HOW TO HELL this person with 700 can be in top % of region .. when in other divisions players have much more points..
Now you see this or still no? THEY MUST make mixing divions or this makes no sense.
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
ZwuckeL is right. Divisions aren't going to subdivide leagues into skill ranges anymore, meaning a much wider range of skill is possible for each division. I said before that it's theoretically possible to have "divisions of death" where all the high-end people coincidentally make it into one division, in which case the average points will be much higher. It's random chance where you'll end up. The "rank 2 = 2%" thing is only true on the average and even then in a very broad sense. Don't read too much into it.
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
There was not a single wording on this by Blizzard. If they start filling the divisions by player skill instead of "first come, first serve" now, this was 100% unannounced. I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have announced such a change. Which they didn't
Yes they Did
"The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
But nvm this disscusion make no seanse..you will see very soon who is right
On September 12 2012 00:40 _Jupiter_ wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:32 pallad wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:28 ZwuckeL wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:16 pallad wrote:
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
And you are wrong here... blizzard WRITE "After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
So going by your thinking , someone hit top 5 in bad division with 700 points when in toher divions have 1200 for same top places.. HOW TO HELL this person with 700 can be in top % of region .. when in other divisions players have much more points..
Now you see this or still no? THEY MUST make mixing divions or this makes no sense.
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
ZwuckeL is right. Divisions aren't going to subdivide leagues into skill ranges anymore, meaning a much wider range of skill is possible for each division. I said before that it's theoretically possible to have "divisions of death" where all the high-end people coincidentally make it into one division, in which case the average points will be much higher. It's random chance where you'll end up. The "rank 2 = 2%" thing is only true on the average and even then in a very broad sense. Don't read too much into it.
I get your point , but you dont know yet .. if division placement will be random , maby this season they will place players based on MMR , not "first" to play , its possibility
Maby im stupid or something.. but if blizzard dont makes mixed divisions this make no seanse
""After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.""
because how you imagine that ? Someone hit top place in waek divsion , and he is in top% of the region with much less points that others.. ? i dont get it.
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
There was not a single wording on this by Blizzard. If they start filling the divisions by player skill instead of "first come, first serve" now, this was 100% unannounced. I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have announced such a change. Which they didn't
Yes they Did
"The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
But nvm this disscusion make no seanse..you will see very soon who is right
On September 12 2012 00:40 _Jupiter_ wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:32 pallad wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:28 ZwuckeL wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:16 pallad wrote:
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
And you are wrong here... blizzard WRITE "After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
So going by your thinking , someone hit top 5 in bad division with 700 points when in toher divions have 1200 for same top places.. HOW TO HELL this person with 700 can be in top % of region .. when in other divisions players have much more points..
Now you see this or still no? THEY MUST make mixing divions or this makes no sense.
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
ZwuckeL is right. Divisions aren't going to subdivide leagues into skill ranges anymore, meaning a much wider range of skill is possible for each division. I said before that it's theoretically possible to have "divisions of death" where all the high-end people coincidentally make it into one division, in which case the average points will be much higher. It's random chance where you'll end up. The "rank 2 = 2%" thing is only true on the average and even then in a very broad sense. Don't read too much into it.
I get your point , but you dont know yet .. if division placement will be random , maby this season they will place players based on MMR , not "first" to play , its possibility
Maby im stupid or something.. but if blizzard dont makes mixed divisions this make no seanse
""After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.""
because how you imagine that ? Someone hit top place in waek divsion , and he is in top% of the region with much less points that others.. ? i dont get it.
You should never interpret announcements / posts made by Blizzard from word to word. Blizzard is known to include lots of so called "marketing text" or "PR text" in their announcements that makes things sound better than they are.
If Blizzard would start filling divisions based on MMR they would need to have potentially tens of divisions filling parallel (depends e.g. on how many 'MMR range classes' there would be. This could mean e.g. in plat 33% spots for old lowest skill tier, 33% for old middle tier and 33% for the old highest tier). It would take a long time for divisions to be fully filled and late season divisions would likely have lots of unused spots. And that would not even solve the problem as people's skill and MMR change over time, but division placements do not change over time (only demotions/promotions to lower/higher leagues).
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
There was not a single wording on this by Blizzard. If they start filling the divisions by player skill instead of "first come, first serve" now, this was 100% unannounced. I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have announced such a change. Which they didn't
Yes they Did
"The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
But nvm this disscusion make no seanse..you will see very soon who is right
On September 12 2012 00:40 _Jupiter_ wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:32 pallad wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:28 ZwuckeL wrote:
On September 12 2012 00:16 pallad wrote:
On September 11 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: It has been so long since I played SCII. I wonder if I will play next season. I don't think the tier removal will do much. Not many spend their bonuspool, and probably the divisions won't be balanced at all. I don't think that is possible without changing players during the season.
Will do much for what.. ? So what people dont use bonus pool ? What bonus pool have to do with that disscusion ? I dont get it. Divisions will be now balanced perfectly , it will be end of diamond players that have 700-800 points and was in TOP 5 in division , and then they write they are top diamond players.. when in other divsion top 10 diamond players was siting at 1200 , or even more points.
Now you gonna know your real position in diamond for example , and all that players that was top 5 with 800 points will be maby in top 30 or even under 30 place. It is good because someone who hit top 5 with 700-800 points in "bad" diamond division , was thinking that he is near master skill lv , and that is not true.. he just was in low tier diamond division.
Dont know how you thinking , but I for example wanna know my real position in diamond league.
You haven't understood what tiers were even about. Why is everyone spreading this kind of completley false information?
These scenarios you described, where divisions exist that will have Top 5 players at 800 points, and other divisions where top 5 is at 1200, will still exist. Removing tiers won't effect this circumstance in any way.
Removing tiers means that a 1200 diamond player will be pretty much as good as another diamond player at 1200 points. Nothing more.
There will still be weak divisions where you can become top 8 without having lots of points compared to the other divisions.
edit. to clear things up, prior to the change, lower tiered players got "free points" (offsets) to their points added so that it looked as if they were evenly rated as higher tiered players, but in fact were very lower skilled than the high ones
Sorry sir , but person that dont understand this is you. And you are wrong. Now players will be mixed , no good/bad division anymore.
"Ladder Tier Removal Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different "tiers", and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it to determine your next promotion. For example, if you're in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn't necessarily mean you'll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we're removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4.
The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they're at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
We'll be examining how well this works over the course of the coming season, and make a determination if we'll keep the system for the long term or make further adjustments, if needed.
Good luck, have fun!"
Its clear for me ...IF you are in top 10 diamond you are in top 10% diamond players in region so .. going by your logic.. someone with 800 points and rank 4-5 is in top 5 % players ? When other divisions have top 10 with 1200+ points ? Try to think..
I am going to have to agree with ZwuckeL on this one. The tiers will make players that have the same amount of points "equal" in skill as the ladder sees it. Removing tiers is in no way of "balancing" individual divisions. When players are placed into divisions, they have no way of knowing if they are putting the best 100, worst 100 or some other mix into that division. As stated above, there will still be "bad" divisions. There is still the chance that a division will be 90% full of people that went on vacation from the game for two months etc. I hope this clears things up, so we dont have to argue this much further.
And you are wrong here... blizzard WRITE "After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
So going by your thinking , someone hit top 5 in bad division with 700 points when in toher divions have 1200 for same top places.. HOW TO HELL this person with 700 can be in top % of region .. when in other divisions players have much more points..
Now you see this or still no? THEY MUST make mixing divions or this makes no sense.
"After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth."
ZwuckeL is right. Divisions aren't going to subdivide leagues into skill ranges anymore, meaning a much wider range of skill is possible for each division. I said before that it's theoretically possible to have "divisions of death" where all the high-end people coincidentally make it into one division, in which case the average points will be much higher. It's random chance where you'll end up. The "rank 2 = 2%" thing is only true on the average and even then in a very broad sense. Don't read too much into it.
I get your point , but you dont know yet .. if division placement will be random , maby this season they will place players based on MMR , not "first" to play , its possibility
Maby im stupid or something.. but if blizzard dont makes mixed divisions this make no seanse
""After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.""
because how you imagine that ? Someone hit top place in waek divsion , and he is in top% of the region with much less points that others.. ? i dont get it.
This is how you'll know. In Seasons 8 and earlier, divisions were created in parallel, and it had to do this because there was always one growing division per tier. If we're right, then in Season 9 and beyond, there will be only one incomplete division at any given time. This will prove that it's first-come, first-served because there won't be any "reserved" slots.
Currently the website is lagging behind (as usual) and SC2Ranks scrapes the website to gather its information. Once the Bnet website goes live with Season 9, SC2Ranks will be updated and you can use this division listing to verify (select a region, select a league, sort ascending by total players): http://sc2ranks.com/div/am/diamond/1/players/0#teams:0
the way they worded it... rank 2 would be top 2% like you said it's based on law of averages since all divisions are random now. Why do they need divisions in the first place? whats wrong with ranking us against all players in a league and just showing us the rank based on the actualy percentage 1-100%? ? Now it's even more confusing, since getting rank 1 now still only means you are better then the other 99 random people in your div. but not as good as the 45,634 other players in your league...
I don't get it. I'm currently 81st in my division. But nobody has more than 3 wins, so if I win 4 games I can jump from 81st percentile to the 1st? That doesn't make sense. :\
Also its weird because on SEA, it says that the seasonlock is 12 Sep 2012 :S So it should be locked today, hence why I am asking how long the downtime is
Anyone else notice that this season is bone crushingly hard? Every match I play is vs a Favored or Slightly Favored opponenet, and I am getting my ass kicked. Funny, almost every opponent is a zerg too so far. it's a the point that if I see one more 3 base roach push, I am going to lose it - its really frustrating.
On September 12 2012 12:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: Well, here is the new season.
Anyone else notice that this season is bone crushingly hard? Every match I play is vs a Favored or Slightly Favored opponenet, and I am getting my ass kicked. Funny, almost every opponent is a zerg too so far. it's a the point that if I see one more 3 base roach push, I am going to lose it - its really frustrating.
Everyone starts against Favored/Slightly Favored opponents, that's how points are calculated. It doesn't mean they're better than you.
On September 12 2012 12:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: Well, here is the new season.
Anyone else notice that this season is bone crushingly hard? Every match I play is vs a Favored or Slightly Favored opponenet, and I am getting my ass kicked. Funny, almost every opponent is a zerg too so far. it's a the point that if I see one more 3 base roach push, I am going to lose it - its really frustrating.
Everyone starts against Favored/Slightly Favored opponents, that's how points are calculated. It doesn't mean they're better than you.
So to sum it up.
1. all leagues are like masters league. I.E based on your points. If you are rank 1 with 200 points while another division is rank 1 with 1200 points you will be able to calculate where you are in his league because you will be the same skill as someone with 200 points.
2. at the beginning of the season you will only play favored or slightly favored to help you increase in points. The amount of points you gain depends i believe on your previous rank for last season. That is why someone with only 10 wins can have 300+ points because of their placement last season.
On September 12 2012 12:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: Well, here is the new season.
Anyone else notice that this season is bone crushingly hard? Every match I play is vs a Favored or Slightly Favored opponenet, and I am getting my ass kicked. Funny, almost every opponent is a zerg too so far. it's a the point that if I see one more 3 base roach push, I am going to lose it - its really frustrating.
Everyone starts against Favored/Slightly Favored opponents, that's how points are calculated. It doesn't mean they're better than you.
So to sum it up.
1. all leagues are like masters league. I.E based on your points. If you are rank 1 with 200 points while another division is rank 1 with 1200 points you will be able to calculate where you are in his league because you will be the same skill as someone with 200 points.
2. at the beginning of the season you will only play favored or slightly favored to help you increase in points. The amount of points you gain depends i believe on your previous rank for last season. That is why someone with only 10 wins can have 300+ points because of their placement last season.
Ssssort of.
1. All leagues are like Master league in that the divisions are created one by one, on demand. Points can be compared across divisions (they couldn't previously). Adjusted points (points minus spent bonus pool) will give you a more accurate, skill-based comparison. Obviously someone with 100 points from games + 100 spent bonus pool = 200 points is going to be a little different than someone with 150 points from games + 50 spent bonus pool = 200 points because in the latter case, the player will have more reserve bonus pool meaning higher potential points.
2. The amount of points earned is based on the opponent's MMR compared to your current adjusted points. If your MMR is high then--on average--you face stronger opposition meaning you gain points more rapidly compared to lower-MMR players. This allows players to quickly get to point totals that accurately reflect their skill levels.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2hWTY2CEAAsyJz.jpg:large)
simple
