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As emotionally invested as people are on this topic, TL rules still apply. That includes flaming and ad hominem attacks. |
On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
What's more feasible, good sir?
Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended?
Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU?
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On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:
[quote]
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again?
The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU?
Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know.
But this is still pretty awesome advice:
On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
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This is seriously worse than the holocaust guys.
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Hmm.
Destiny's sharing of pictures to two friends...assuming it didn't leak out from that convo, isn't bad beyond comprehension, at least judging from the end result.
Probably could have been Destiny hater, who sent the chat log, or maybe some mild vigilante white-knight. The thing is, from just looking at the chatlog, it looks like her nudes were spread to everyone in the chatroom (and thus almost guaranteed to leak out onto the net), when in fact the nudes were PM'd to just two people.
With the first case in mind, then in combination with the shit-face calling, her retribution is pretty warranted. Picture for picture, both being public. (Can't he just reset his skype and twitter password? I'm sure you could do more nasty things with those passwords, but you'd need to be really twisted, as well as have put some thought into it. Spamming slander only goes so far.) With what actual happened, the second case, her retribution was like 10 times over the top. Not that revenge being even has any "correctness" or morality. Just judging the result.
His rude sc2reddit responses, not very noteworthy overall. He had his life flipped around; only a very forgiving person wouldn't fuck around some more verbally. He does really sound like an ass in the sc2reddits posts. At this point, Destiny could bring it right back to her and go to her dean, etc. Is a dick move in a sense, but also his legal right. I think because the further damage to him if he sues her will be negligible, he will likely go ahead with it (and not change his mind).
TLDR: They were both stupid. Destiny's already paid the price. Now with not much to lose from this incident, he's going to make her pay as well.
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On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:
[quote]
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again?
The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU?
1. This was a PRIVATE conversation not a fucking public statement of him.
2. You have a pragmatic view on this.I have an idealistic view on this and the "future" of esports. I want people to stop being fucking hypocrits and stop bothering sponsors with this shit. People are very quick in taking away things of other persons as long it doesnt have an impact on themselves.
Thats why i am posting here.
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On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors.
We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.
We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it.
I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it.
That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad.
Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself.
It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs.
Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
or how about, just change the channel and move on to something you enjoy, and contribute positively instead of bitching about a player you don't like in the first place?
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On August 31 2012 09:35 Aegeis wrote:
This is seriously worse than the holocaust guys.
ugh say what? xd
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On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors.
We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.
We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it.
I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it.
That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad.
Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself.
It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs.
Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Conventionally cogent advice takes on an entirely different character when presented before an online community, as this thread and many others clearly indicate. Neither insistence nor empirical proof can be forced upon those who are convinced of their own rightness, and without the element of personal confrontation, effectual persuasion on the internet is rather unlikely.
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On August 31 2012 09:35 Aegeis wrote:
This is seriously worse than the holocaust guys.
I know.
People need to learn to pick their battles.
The EPA standing up to KESPA is a commendable cause, that protected the future of a pioneer league that invested millions into SC2 community.
Fighting for a universe where Destiny can talk smack about a girl without getting pictures of his ding-dong on the internet is not a battle worth fighting.
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On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors.
We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.
We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it.
I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it.
That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad.
Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself.
It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs.
Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Or Destiny could just have been mature and professional and all this drama would have never happened.
There will always be people who don't care how important sponsors are, or who just want to ruin a player's career. You can never change this. A player can always change is his level of professionalism. He's had plenty of chances.
This isn't a minor mistep. When you are one of the main images of an organization you better be mature, responsible, and have your life in order. If you can't be these things then you don't deserve to be on a pro team. Not only is it a bad image for ROOT, it gives the haters legitimate reason to complain to the sponsors. Sure the haters are bad people, but Destiny is the "root" of all of these things and is in no way innocent.
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On August 31 2012 09:39 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had.
Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet.
Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit.
Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet.
Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community.
Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole.
I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Conventionally cogent advice takes on an entirely different character when presented before an online community, as this thread and many others clearly indicate. Neither insistence nor empirical proof can be forced upon those who are convinced of their own rightness, and without the element of personal confrontation, effectual persuasion on the internet is rather unlikely.
So why you made this post at all then?
If you are giving me the advice of not giving advice at all this is paradoxon based on the statement you made.
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On August 31 2012 09:45 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:39 farvacola wrote:On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure.
I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ".
Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has.
So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world.
Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways.
So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Conventionally cogent advice takes on an entirely different character when presented before an online community, as this thread and many others clearly indicate. Neither insistence nor empirical proof can be forced upon those who are convinced of their own rightness, and without the element of personal confrontation, effectual persuasion on the internet is rather unlikely. So why you made this post at all then? If you are giving me the advice of not giving advice at all this is paradoxon on the statement you made.
Because I'm a gamblin' man. I merely said the odds of effective communication are unlikely.
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Listen, I haven't even seen this girl, but I still have the right to call her ugly without being threatened with having pictures of my dick all over the internet.
This ho obviously overreacted. Got destiny kicked off his team, got two other guys suspended, and brought more negative attention to herself. She wanted some sort of shitstorm and whoop-de-do, she got it.
Destiny still fucked up though. He knew he had to be on thin ice after all the things hes been through. Should have just played Starcraft and shut the fuck up for a little while. Oh well, hes probably learned his lesson. If he gets on another team i really hope, for his sake, that things go smoothly.
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On August 31 2012 09:47 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:45 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:39 farvacola wrote:On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:
[quote]
So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough.
Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable
Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Conventionally cogent advice takes on an entirely different character when presented before an online community, as this thread and many others clearly indicate. Neither insistence nor empirical proof can be forced upon those who are convinced of their own rightness, and without the element of personal confrontation, effectual persuasion on the internet is rather unlikely. So why you made this post at all then? If you are giving me the advice of not giving advice at all this is paradoxon on the statement you made. Because I'm a gamblin' man. I merely said the odds of effective communication are unlikely.
Then we have something in common  .
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On August 31 2012 08:54 Sokrates wrote:Can you elaborate this with more detail? Why exactly should have face repercussions? Does that change his opinion or should he change his opinion? It was a fucking private talk, and nearly every guy on the fucking planet talks this way. So why should he apologize? For saying his true opinion? I dont think so.
Yes, it was a private conversation until he decided to bring it here on to TL. As a party of the scandal he shouldn't be coming on here to publicly insult her. Using his esteem in the community to publicly humiliate someone (whether or not they deserve it) should not be tolerated, especially since he is wrapped up in the entire thing.
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On August 31 2012 09:52 KillingVector wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:54 Sokrates wrote:Can you elaborate this with more detail? Why exactly should have face repercussions? Does that change his opinion or should he change his opinion? It was a fucking private talk, and nearly every guy on the fucking planet talks this way. So why should he apologize? For saying his true opinion? I dont think so. Yes, it was a private conversation until he decided to bring it here on to TL. As a party of the scandal he shouldn't be coming on here to publicly insult her. Using his esteem in the community to publicly humiliate someone (whether or not they deserve it) should not be tolerated, especially since he is wrapped up in the entire thing.
Yeah, apparently you don't understand the situation. SHE IS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UPON HERSELF. She posted the shit on reddit and made this 100 times bigger then it ever would have been.
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On August 31 2012 09:44 TechNoTrance wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 09:29 Kranzor wrote:On August 31 2012 09:25 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:12 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 09:11 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had.
Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet.
Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit.
Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet.
Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community.
Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole.
I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable Welcome to the real world of grown-ups, where not everyone is judged equally and the consequences a person suffers depends on personality, accomplishments and contributions to their community. So thats a good thing? Is your advice to Destiny to stay the course and wait until the world changes? My advice is that the esports community STOPS starting witchhunts and stops emailing sponors about this trivial shit. We are a young community and we can acutally be BETTER than all the other bullshit that is going on. We can stop being the same hypocritical assholes that use every inch of a mistep a person to drill him his noose and hang him. Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion. What's more feasible, good sir? Regulating the behavior of an entire community and dictating when they can or cannot be offended? Or Destiny smartening up and learning when to be funny, when to be racy, and when to STFU? Be offended all you want, but in general just dont bother the sponsors with it. Bother the player and the team and if that doesnt work you can still let the sponsor know. But this is still pretty awesome advice: On August 31 2012 09:20 Sokrates wrote:
Stop being twofaced and hypocritical. Stop making a big fucking deal out of every misbehavior and stop trying to get people disbanded from teams. Stop being self-righteous, stop punish people so they lose their job/team by a fucking minor mistep. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Or Destiny could just have been mature and professional and all this drama would have never happened. There will always be people who don't care how important sponsors are, or who just want to ruin a player's career. You can never change this. A player can always change is his level of professionalism. He's had plenty of chances. This isn't a minor mistep. When you are one of the main images of an organization you better be mature, responsible, and have your life in order. If you can't be these things then you don't deserve to be on a pro team. Not only is it a bad image for ROOT, it gives the haters legitimate reason to complain to the sponsors. Sure the haters are bad people, but Destiny is the "root" of all of these things and is in no way innocent.
So, every single private conversation that is being held by a progamer should now be crutinized by the community? It is absolutely outrageous to even suggest that this was more than a 'minor misstep' - have you NEVER told anyone that someone is ugly? Can now progamers not be sure that everything they say in private will become public, and if it will, that they'll be kicked-off their team if they're being rude to someone?
People say stupid stuff all the time, the PM of Britain called some voter a 'bigoted woman' (and rightly so), off the cuff... Are you even aware that was Destiny all did was private?
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On August 31 2012 09:50 xParadoxi wrote:
Listen, I haven't even seen this girl, but I still have the right to call her ugly without being threatened with having pictures of my dick all over the internet.
Jeez, if everytime someone calls someone ugly they should have their dicks on the internet, the interwebz would be clogged with dicks. As a result, having a picture of your dick online wouldn't be such a shame anymore, and we'd have far more interesting facebook profile pictures.
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I wonder if this bluetea person is indeed getting screwed for her part in this.
I hope everyone involved gets their proverbial buttholes violated so hard from this incident that we don't have to deal with these horribly asinine problems ever again.
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That blueteam person should be in jail by now. Does someone have any updates about the issue?
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EPT
