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As emotionally invested as people are on this topic, TL rules still apply. That includes flaming and ad hominem attacks. |
Um, this girl made a post explaining how she hacked Destiny's twitter and posted a picture of his dick because she felt betrayed by something he did with his friends in private. She brought the public into this, not Fayth or Destiny. If she didn't want scrutiny, she should have handled the situation in a more private manner with Destiny himself. The ridicule she is getting is self-inflicted and has nothing to do with Fayth.
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On August 31 2012 08:50 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:48 KillingVector wrote:On August 31 2012 08:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Nope, he didn't do anything with tact and got pretty flustered but I'd rather see that than an insincere 'oh I'm so sorry.' Don't really think of it as cyberbullying at all If it was a matter of him being "flustered" then I would expect that he would have apologized after sleeping on it. Last I checked, he didn't. He'd be apologising for his wording or his tone, I don't expect him to change his actual underlying opinion on the matter.
The point is that he's done neither. He's apologized for nothing.
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On August 31 2012 08:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Nope, he didn't do anything with tact and got pretty flustered but I'd rather see that than an insincere 'oh I'm so sorry.' Don't really think of it as cyberbullying at all
you rather see someone publicly humiliate someone more instead of seeing an apology, insincerely or not?
Just by the act of apology, it shows at least you give a fuck. It also appeases the victim. The least he could do is just shut up and not say anything
His decisions to speak out some more shows arrogant, and that he's proud to be an asshole.
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Northern Ireland26475 Posts
On August 31 2012 08:52 KillingVector wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:48 KillingVector wrote:On August 31 2012 08:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Nope, he didn't do anything with tact and got pretty flustered but I'd rather see that than an insincere 'oh I'm so sorry.' Don't really think of it as cyberbullying at all If it was a matter of him being "flustered" then I would expect that he would have apologized after sleeping on it. Last I checked, he didn't. He'd be apologising for his wording or his tone, I don't expect him to change his actual underlying opinion on the matter. The point is that he's done neither. He's apologized for nothing.
Yeah I suppose he should come and apologise for insulting the girl's look, but ah well.
Perhaps he doesn't see any need to apologise for his comments made about a girl who locked his friend out of his social networking accounts, and posted his dick on the internet for all and sundry to see?
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Can you elaborate this with more detail? Why exactly should have face repercussions?
Does that change his opinion or should he change his opinion? It was a fucking private talk, and nearly every guy on the fucking planet talks this way. So why should he apologize? For saying his true opinion? I dont think so.
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On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing, Monster Energy Drink and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs.
I wouldn't say captive and engaging audience as much as I'd say we have an unfortunate fraction of our audience who figured out that e-mailing sponsors is a good way to bring their drama fueled, self-entitled judgment down upon a player they decide they want to be offended by. I doubt there are even fraction of e-mails representing his actual fans expressing their satisfaction with the sponsor.
The NASL comparison isn't even relevant. NORMAL people would post about Destiny or NASL and voice their discontent/dissatisfaction with the event/player. They might never even watch that event or support that player. That's fine and fair, and completely true to your post. It's the other fans, however, that decide they don't like it so nobody can have it and try to sabotage it. I don't think disappointed SC2 fans went out of their way to see NASL come burning down. With these witch hunts it's not even about being upset at sponsors. They KNOW sponsors will cave and they just do it whenever they get offended now, and what offends them seems to broaden every few months.
And besides, the NASL comparison is even moreso irrelevant because it's not like people were ripping it because something in Incontrol's personal life surfaced. I mean, you're comparing an object created to serve SC2 with a human being.
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please stop trolling. this topic doesn't need anymore confusion added to it.
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On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked.
IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure.
I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ".
Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has.
So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world.
Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways.
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On August 31 2012 08:53 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Nope, he didn't do anything with tact and got pretty flustered but I'd rather see that than an insincere 'oh I'm so sorry.' Don't really think of it as cyberbullying at all you rather see someone publicly humiliate someone more instead of seeing an apology, insincerely or not? Just by the act of apology, it shows at least you give a fuck. It also appeases the victim. The least he could do is just shut up and not say anything His decisions to speak out some more shows arrogant, and that he's proud to be an asshole.
Would you please stop trying to victimize and whiteknight her?
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On August 31 2012 08:55 rd wrote:
I don't think disappointed SC2 fans went out of their way to see NASL come burning down. With these witch hunts it's not even about being upset at sponsors. They KNOW sponsors will cave and they just do it whenever they get offended now, and what offends them seems to broaden every few months.
I only disagree with this point. There were definitely people trying to flame NASL out of existence. I remember those threads ...
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No.
I think you would be better spending your time on something POSITIVE. Maybe go watch a stream of your favourite player, and emailing their sponsors professing your love of their supported team and player(s).
Try that instead of witch hunting, and wasting one of your 23 posts on something a bit more constructive and helping.
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On August 31 2012 08:58 Kenpark wrote:Lol nice troll man.
I dont think its trolling, if any normal person had posted half the shit that Destiny has then they would be banned. Furthermore, he was a dick to a woman who knew how to return fire, he deserved everything he got. Root gave him a second chance, he fucked that up too, he will be lucky to be anything but a oil changer from now on.
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On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways.
So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough.
Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable
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The never ending threeeeeeead!  Guys seriously! Do you get anything out of this at all anymore? Like isn't this already discussed to the max already? The ending of this would be BlueTea and Destiny publicly tell their stories and perhaps their behaviors what they think about the situation etc.
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Northern Ireland26475 Posts
On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways.
Destiny for his faults does have a pretty big fanbase. Perhaps if he hawked sponsors to them more he'd have the requisite value that he wouldn't be dropped from team after team. Agreed I do think the guy either needs to be more savvy, or a better player if he wants to get away
The thing is, I was referring to us as a community and how we approach these things, and the different levels of ire wedisplay. You're referring to why a sponsor would keep on an Idra or a Stephano in these instances. I agree with your assessment on that front by the way.
I was addressing the actual pressure (or not) that the sponsors face in the first place, not the issue of whether they should/should not cave in to such pressure and remove the figures in question.
Orb and Destiny had people calling for their heads and emailing sponsors, Idra and Stephano didn't for whatever reason. It's that popularity contest aspect of it that I dislike and would like to see somewhat curtailed. In an ideal world progamers would have some kind of code of conduct that is standardised and agreed upon, so consistency prevails. At least that's how I'd prefer it, but dissenting opinions are valid as well on this issue, it's pretty far-reaching
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On August 31 2012 08:33 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 07:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 07:53 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 07:44 iky43210 wrote:On August 31 2012 07:23 Ozcollo wrote:On August 31 2012 06:59 iky43210 wrote:On August 31 2012 06:54 Mutation wrote:
Ok, so what has Destiny done to upset the sponsors? well, lets see. 1) A dick pics for the world to see. 2) immature talks and blatant childish act / disrespectful of others privacy 3) overreacting response on public note. It doesn't matter if the conversation was private or public, or that the leak of the fact that he send dicks to random fangirl was not his intention, but the sponsors and team images have been as a result. Fairly good reasons to be pissed about. The whys and hows don't really matter 1) A woman used an email password to reset his skype/twitter/facebook passwords and take control of the accounts. She then uses them to circulate explicit photographs and private conversations. That's borderline stalker behavior and lead to events that were out of his control. 2) I'm sure you've NEVER had private conversations about someone when they weren't present. I'm sure that if you did, you went to them and told them right away. Although I doubt you'll be able to read this from all the up on that high horse. 3) He just had his dick posted for the entire world to see after having all control removed from tools he uses to help make a living. He was also making decent progress at a tournament he wanted to succeed at but had to forfeit because of events out of his control. He's had to deal with a large population of illiterate people who had knee-jerk reactions and accused him of distributing child pornography. Not to mention people completely trashing his character and imposing their morals on him behind a veil of anonymity. Not to mention trolls who have absolutely no idea what Starcraft 2 or the context of events mailing sponsors. His threat to contact her place of work/school was lame, but otherwise he had the reaction of a lot of normal people and it's justified to me. The whys and hows should absolutely matter in this incident. Like I've told you before, believe it or not, in a lot of groups of close friends, the sharing of photos in private like that is the norm. The absolute worst part of this entire situation is that if the roles were reversed and Steven was the one that made unauthorized access to a woman's accounts and made her photographs public, there would be VERY few of you that would actually stand up for him. It's absolutely insane the number of people in this thread and on Reddit that believe she was justified in how she handled the situation (This isn't directed at you, I can't remember your thoughts on this subject, sorry). missed the point. whys and hows barely matters to sponsors and teams I'm sure alot of group of friends are also crack racists jokes in their small circle, doesn't mean it won't be hugely frown upon if some celebrities/stars/employee did it and got caught this is not the first time, in fact its incredibly common, for players or even average day employees to be fired or penalized for these kind of behavior.Anyway, disregarding sponsors, the line between private and public no longer exists once its out there. Just because you're a jackass in discrete, doesn't mean people will tolerate it once its blown \ Lol? What? No it's not. Maybe celebrities, but they don't get fired or penalized. They just get more publicity. And it's almost as if to imply that it's even right that hundreds of upset posters e-mailing sponsors over any trivial bullshit drama is justifiable and okay. Kim Kardashian has a sex tape leaked, makes more money. Destiny gets a picture of his dick leaked, gets fired from his team. In trying to 'legitimise' E-sports we really seem to be trying to uphold standards that don't even apply in other industries, especially entertainment. Different scenarios. Unless the sponsors behind Roots team wants those kind of personality, then he can go do whatever the fuck he wants. Its not that complicated. The sponsors behind root wants professionalism. The viewers don't tolerate these kind of issues, so destiny gets fired. The sponsors behind Kim Kardashian don't give a fuck, and I'm sure their viewers don't either (cause they're selling sex anyway). In fact, given the fame they don't need sponsors at all. These kind of morale standards apply to the entertainment industry all the time? In many Asia idol groups, any sex scandals would get the team disbanded. In some sports, harassment or inappropriate behavior gets fined or barred from playing for the seasons. In Sports, there's plenty of controversies that are no different from the drama sc2 has spurred hat ends with people getting fired, penalized, or nothing happened. But controversies and debates still lingers In the end, it is still the team and sponsors decisions. If Destiny can't handle appropriate behaviors, he can go look for sponsors or teams that tolerate those issues.
Another difference between Kim K and Destiny is Kim doesn't have a past history of calling people "gooks", "faggots" and "niggers", among other issues.
Catz made an excellent post on the ROOT gaming site which addressed the situation further. He said that a lot of Destiny's past actions have made it very easy for a vocal part of the community to trash him and rile up sponsors whenever they please. Whenever Destiny finds himself in a controversial situation, there's a tremendous amount of ammo to use against him. The people emailing his sponsors don't have to just focus on the dick pics or the chatlog - they can say "This guy is a racist asshole, you sponsor him, and guess what? he's in the middle of another controversy where he comes across as a misogynistic asshole."
Maybe Destiny isn't an asshole. Maybe he's a good guy. Maybe Bluetea is at fault here. Maybe Destiny is. Maybe you have a certain theory of linguistics or about sexism in the West. It doesn't matter though. Regardless of what you think, in this day and age you cannot provide a continuous stream of ammunition on the internet for any detractor or prospective employer to use against you. You may find this incredibly shitty, but that's simply how it works. Destiny has provided a nonstop paper trail of fucked up incidents so that anyone who doesn't like him (and he provokes a lot of people - it's essentially his career) can instantly get him in trouble.
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On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked.
This is a good post.
I keep coming back to where to draw the line. If Grubby, Ret or Incontrol were caught cheating on their girlfriend, surely we'd start a witchhunt, right? Their action would've been high immoral, worse Destiny's, and apparently these kind of private events are totally our business as soon as they're made public.
I feel like people shitting on Destiny are some kind of hippocratic moral elite.
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On August 31 2012 09:02 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 08:57 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 31 2012 08:38 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 08:24 rd wrote:On August 31 2012 08:19 Defacer wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are still making excuses for Destiny ...
Did the girl respond unfairly? Yup. But guess what ... if your modus operandi includes talking shit and gossiping behind people's backs, actively trolling and antagonizing people, and not talking personal responsibility for your decisions and actions, guess what! sometimes it bites you in the ass.
All you guys that are apologizing for Destiny are the immature ones. Destiny is a big boy now that can do and say whatever he wants. If that includes taking pictures of his dick and shit-talking a girl, so be it.
But why the hell should anyone feel sorry for a guy who lives and dies by acting like a jackass?
So what does any of that have to do with SC2 again? The best AND worse part of the SC2 community is the passion and support of its fans. I'm sure it's part of the pitch teams make to sponsors. We aren't just a captive audience. We are engaged.We're smart, analytical, and supportive ... but also opinionated, analytical and judgemental. We're the type of fans that actually sit up and notice when a team gets a new player, a new team forms ... and when a team gets a new sponsor. We actually celebrate it. I can't name a corporate sponsor from the Olympics, but I can tell you that EG is sponsored by RaidCall, Kingston HyperX, Jinx Clothing and Intel without having to google it. That passion cuts both ways. While we'll prop up a product we believe in, even if it's not ready for primetime (NASL, early MLG) we will also rip into anyone or anything that makes the sport look bad. Honestly, if players can't handle having a community as active and OCD as ours, maybe they should consider playing a more boring game no one gives two-shits about, or doing a job that doesn't need corporate sponsorship to sustain itself. It's not fair that players are scrutinized as much as they are, but then again, no one is forcing Destiny to play SC2 for a living. I'm sure he could get a job at McDonald's and no one would care about his personal affairs. Yeah you raise an interesting point. That said I feel we're a big part of the problem. It's not having a set of standards that we expect enforced, it's the unequal application of these pretty arbitrary standards to people liked and disliked by the community. Just look at a few of the big dramas we've had, and some we have not had. Orb - Fired from EG for use of a racist epithet. Idra - Until recently tolerated by EG despite frequent use of many derogatory terms, has toned that down to his credit. Destiny - Had his stream removed from the featured list for a while for a racial epithet. Stephano - Tweeted to HasuObs a jokey comment about 'Having burned any Jews lately?'. Removed Tweet, no further action made by the community. Until we actually mature to a stage where we have a set of standards that are universally enforced, these 'witchunts' appear to me to be pretty arbitrary in basis and harmful for the community as a whole. I'm on the 'more censorship = bad' side of the debate, but to be honest I'd be fine with a more moderated scene if this was done consistently instead of on a case-by-case basis based upon who is liked/disliked. IdrA is a great example of a player that, despite his faults, brings great value to his team and sponsors. IdrA has a lingering reputation as a BM player, but at the same time he promotes his team and sponsors at every event, in every interview and during every cast he does. And better yet, he's extremely active and gets his sponsors tons of exposure. I'm sure if this happened to IdrA, Alex would remind his sponsors how much IdrA has done for them, suspend IdrA for a short period and dock some pay, and issue a carefully worded apology from IdrA via press release stating that he " exercised poor judgement ... ". Stephano is just fucking insane good at SC2, and is a commodity because of the amount of foreign/NA fans he has. So there are two models for Destiny to follow, if he wants to have his BM cake and eat it to -- be a great teammate and soldier or be one of the top five Zerg players in the world. Another solution is that the SC2 scene gets so big and flush with money that guys like Destiny are small potatoes that no one gives a shit about, anyways. So its basically ok if you are an asshole as long as you are good enough. Makes a lot of sense.Ethnically totally acceptable
Its hypocrit logic. Get used to it, you will hear it a lot in these threads.
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On August 31 2012 08:55 rd wrote:
I wouldn't say captive and engaging audience as much as I'd say we have an unfortunate fraction of our audience who figured out that e-mailing sponsors is a good way to bring their drama fueled, self-entitled judgment down upon a player they decide they want to be offended by. I doubt there are even fraction of e-mails representing his actual fans expressing their satisfaction with the sponsor.
On this note, all I can say are that times are a changing and internet culture has empowered individuals in both good and bad ways.
Obama just did an AMA on Reddit, for pete's sake.
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EPT
