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On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:18 Prplppleatr wrote:
[quote]
You completely missed my point and your analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW.
My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic? The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion. Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach.
No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that.
I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either.
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On August 24 2012 09:29 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic? The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion. Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach. No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that. I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either.
So, not having contracts, licenses, stable salaries or proper team management is your definition of professional? According to you, I have a twisted view of professionalism.
According to you, I have a twisted view of professionalism. But, I guarantee you that a majority of the players in GOM will much rather accept my idea of professionalism rather then your harsh perception.
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On August 24 2012 09:28 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:27 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 09:24 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:17 snailz wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:18 Prplppleatr wrote:
[quote]
You completely missed my point and your analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW.
My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic? The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion. Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. oh, the shit bw fans get away with on teamliquid... how is GOM not trying to do same level of profesionalism as kespa? maybe they dont have samsung, air companies and telecoms sponsoring them, but i would say production wise they're doing alright with what they've got. keep on hating tho Once again, I am not hating. Until Gom can come up with a plan to get their players stable salaries, contracts, and proper team management, I will hold to my analogy. I am not hating, I think their effort and production has been exceptional and has contributed a significant amount of growth and interest to SC2. Anyone participating in Gom's league gets a salary. Gom does not own the teams. The teams are in charge of getting salaries, food, lodging, and travel. Gom is not Kespa in that regard. And that is what my definition of professionalism is which is why I made the analogy to begin with. Do you have visual evidence of the bolded quote?
I don't care to look up the evidence but it is out there. I have seen it in more than a few places now.. I'm too busy killing stuff in Diablo to do this  But yah they do get paid no matter which round they lose in.
PS: your last post is broken to heck lol That is one heck of an eyesore. BAH You fixed it right after I edited
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Kespa doesn't want to just play.. they want to win.
And right now, they and their players know they are not ready to win..
It is as simple as that.
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On August 24 2012 09:29 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic? The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion. Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach. No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that. I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either.
Okay basically many times where Kespa did something wrong on their part is because by compromising their own rulebook, they are destroying the legitimacy of their professionalism. Like the PPP incident, it was written that players must press triple P in order to be granted a pause initiation.
BUT later they did correct it with players being able to pause the game at any P on their part. That's the process of learning and that's really good ramification for future references.
With Naniwa's incident not written on any rulebook, the refs still decided to do something about it. Now that is just plain stupid.
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This threat has become ridiculous with the zealous fanboys.
Both leagues are extremely professional. How they are handled is not the question here. While Kespa ruled SC1 with an iron fist and created an Esport, SC2 rose through multiple league, the premiere being GOM.
I see whats happening as very ironic. Blizzard was displeased with Kespa when it refused to acknowledge blizzard as a partner, taking on full control of SC1 dealings. Now in SC2 Kespa has lost much of its strength and it is suddenly upset that it is being cut out of management. It really feels like Kespa has been trying to throw its star power around to try and keep its placing in SC2 despite the established ways.
That said, its unfair to judge Kespa just yet. This big event may actually be something worth while. Maybe they truly cant spare the player. Or maybe they do just want to make sure their players get more practice and perform well so Kespa remains powerful.
In either case, it is another example of Kespa proving they feel theyre above the established scene once again.
SC1 fans love Kespa for what they did for SC1, but the SC2 fans hate them for their snobbery and rigidity. Sooner or later a compromise will need to happen.
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On August 24 2012 09:43 Kanuck wrote:
This threat has become ridiculous with the zealous fanboys.
Both leagues are extremely professional. How they are handled is not the question here. While Kespa ruled SC1 with an iron fist and created an Esport, SC2 rose through multiple league, the premiere being GOM.
I see whats happening as very ironic. Blizzard was displeased with Kespa when it refused to acknowledge blizzard as a partner, taking on full control of SC1 dealings. Now in SC2 Kespa has lost much of its strength and it is suddenly upset that it is being cut out of management. It really feels like Kespa has been trying to throw its star power around to try and keep its placing in SC2 despite the established ways.
That said, its unfair to judge Kespa just yet. This big event may actually be something worth while. Maybe they truly cant spare the player. Or maybe they do just want to make sure their players get more practice and perform well so Kespa remains powerful.
In either case, it is another example of Kespa proving they feel theyre above the established scene once again.
SC1 fans love Kespa for what they did for SC1, but the SC2 fans hate them for their snobbery and rigidity. Sooner or later a compromise will need to happen.
SC1 fans don't really love KeSPA, they put up with them because there is no alternative. KeSPA is pretty universally hated in Korea.
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On August 24 2012 09:37 bri9and wrote:
Kespa doesn't want to just play.. they want to win.
And right now, they and their players know they are not ready to win..
It is as simple as that.
After a progleague (the next one i mean) of pure SC2 and an OSL or two of SC2 as well they'll prob let them switch over. Shame really though.
At least we get to see some GSL vs Kespa in the current OSL.
Baby fighting!!!
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On August 24 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:29 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion.
Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach. No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that. I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either. Okay basically many times where Kespa did something wrong on their part is because by compromising their own rulebook, they are destroying the legitimacy of their professionalism. Like the PPP incident, it was written that players must press triple P in order to be granted a pause initiation. BUT later they did correct it with players being able to pause the game at any P on their part. That's the process of learning and that's really good ramification for future references. With Naniwa's incident not written on any rulebook, the refs still decided to do something about it. Now that is just plain stupid.
Wow you guys are having the longest discussion in TL ever.
Can we all agree that what Kespa is doing to GOM is 10x worse than what GOM did to Naniwa?
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On August 24 2012 09:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 09:29 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach. No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that. I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either. Okay basically many times where Kespa did something wrong on their part is because by compromising their own rulebook, they are destroying the legitimacy of their professionalism. Like the PPP incident, it was written that players must press triple P in order to be granted a pause initiation. BUT later they did correct it with players being able to pause the game at any P on their part. That's the process of learning and that's really good ramification for future references. With Naniwa's incident not written on any rulebook, the refs still decided to do something about it. Now that is just plain stupid. Wow you guys are having the longest discussion in TL ever. Can we all agree that what Kespa is doing to GOM is 10x worse than what GOM did to Naniwa?
It was a good discussion, indeed lol
We cannot conclude that yet because we do not know Kespa's reasoning. We do know that Kespa is bitter about not having the power to monopolize like they used to but maybe they have a logical reason that we just do not know about yet. The only thing floating around right now is speculation.
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On August 24 2012 09:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 09:39 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 09:29 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:16 Fyodor wrote:On August 24 2012 09:10 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 09:05 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. Kespa would never have been the right thing to grow SC2. If you consider Gom to be some D league thing then I will remain quite happy to watch this D league stuff. Keep on hating. I am not hating at all. I love both Gom and Kespa to be quite honest. I compared Gom to be a D-League because they do not have contracts with predetermined salaries for the players. They "didn't" (I am not sure if they do now) even have rules surrounding their own league. Remember the Naniwa vs Nestea situation? There was no rule stating that Naniwa could not probe rush but they banned him as if there was one and then waived his ban. That sir is extremely amature and unprofessional. However, I slightly agree with you that Kespa might not have been the right thing to grow SC2. Every sports league has an "unsportsmanlike" clause somewhere in the rules... either implied or explicit. You're being naive here if you think professional means having every eventuality described with precision in an all-encompassing rule book. You completely missed the point. The unprofessional part "was not" the fact that they did not have the action listed in a rule book but the fact that they banned him as a result of it and then waived his ban. Not banning him and creating a rule after the fact would have been the more professional approach. No, you have a twisted view of what professional means. It doesn't mean following a set of rules exclusively and without interpretation. No country or corporation operates like that. I don't like that you're hijacking a serious topic with such a ridiculous complaint either. Okay basically many times where Kespa did something wrong on their part is because by compromising their own rulebook, they are destroying the legitimacy of their professionalism. Like the PPP incident, it was written that players must press triple P in order to be granted a pause initiation. BUT later they did correct it with players being able to pause the game at any P on their part. That's the process of learning and that's really good ramification for future references. With Naniwa's incident not written on any rulebook, the refs still decided to do something about it. Now that is just plain stupid. Wow you guys are having the longest discussion in TL ever. Can we all agree that what Kespa is doing to GOM is 10x worse than what GOM did to Naniwa? It was a good discussion, indeed lol We cannot conclude that yet because we do not know Kespa's reasoning. We do know that Kespa is bitter about not having the power to monopolize like they used to but maybe they have a logical reason that we just do not know about yet. The only thing floating around right now is speculation.
Very true.. I am really hoping that this Blizzard comment that was supposed to come out today sheds some light on it. If it is Kespa trying to screw with Gom I hope they can disallow that somehow. I want both leagues to do well and to have all the players have good opportunities to play in Europe and NA as well
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On August 24 2012 09:17 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:12 Aerisky wrote:
Wait...I'm still slightly confused. Is it just this GSL or did they essentially say that kespa players will indefinitely not participate in GSL? i.e. as far as we're concerned kespa players aren't going to be playing in GSL ever until further notice? This GSL only... for now.
Ah, gotcha and thanks!
*cold shivers*
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On August 24 2012 10:07 Aerisky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:17 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 09:12 Aerisky wrote:
Wait...I'm still slightly confused. Is it just this GSL or did they essentially say that kespa players will indefinitely not participate in GSL? i.e. as far as we're concerned kespa players aren't going to be playing in GSL ever until further notice? This GSL only... for now. Ah, gotcha and thanks! *cold shivers*
Yeah, it is just this one. They were invited to the last, according to GOM, but declined understandably. This time they invited and expected some to be allowed to come, but again, a shut down from KeSPa. As for the future, we don't know, but most people see it that if KeSPa had really changed, then they would have used this chance to reach an olive branch, but did not do so. As said by me and others in this thread, I am willing to give them this free pass, give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, but if they fail to allow some players to play next season as well, then we might have a major problem.
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Does anyone know what terms GOM was offering KESPA to allow its players to play? If I were KESPA I would want to be compensated for boosting GOM's bottom line.
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On August 24 2012 10:15 The_Darkness wrote:
Does anyone know what terms GOM was offering KESPA to allow its players to play? If I were KESPA I would want to be compensated for boosting GOM's bottom line.
KeSPA's bottom line was boosted by GOM players in OSL.
I think GOM was offering 2 Code S seed, 2 UnD seed and 4 Code A seed.
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On August 24 2012 10:15 The_Darkness wrote:
Does anyone know what terms GOM was offering KESPA to allow its players to play? If I were KESPA I would want to be compensated for boosting GOM's bottom line.
As far as we know, none, but the openness and allowing the players to be able to play in both leagues was supposed to be, or implied to be, part of the "new age" and deal made between GOM, Blizz, OGN, and KeSPa. Gom did give KeSPa players priority in signing up for the qualifiers over all non-Alliance Korean team players. It was Alliance players first, then KeSPa, then everyone else.
On August 24 2012 10:18 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:15 The_Darkness wrote:
Does anyone know what terms GOM was offering KESPA to allow its players to play? If I were KESPA I would want to be compensated for boosting GOM's bottom line. KeSPA's bottom line was boosted by GOM players in OSL. I think GOM was offering 2 Code S seed, 2 UnD seed and 4 Code A seed.
As far as I know, these seeds were just a rumor.
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On August 24 2012 10:15 The_Darkness wrote:
Does anyone know what terms GOM was offering KESPA to allow its players to play? If I were KESPA I would want to be compensated for boosting GOM's bottom line.
Why do you think GOM should pay Kespa to allow players to play. The players get paid if they qualify, and get paid more if they win. The fact that Kespa owns players and controls them is the problem. Kespa won't exist long if they only let their players play in the OSL and nothing else.
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On August 24 2012 09:24 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:17 snailz wrote:On August 24 2012 08:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:55 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:54 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:53 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 08:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 08:18 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 07:45 Prplppleatr wrote:
[quote]
My point was that "you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners.
And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money..
If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago. You completely missed my point and your analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW. My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic? The biggest problem is NFL players have a union, so that decisions cannot be forced on them without repercussion. Different countries have different rules. Exactly. That apply for your analogy also. Not exactly. Because StarCraft BW was much like a professional sport in Korea whereas GOM is like a D-League replica of it. oh, the shit bw fans get away with on teamliquid... how is GOM not trying to do same level of profesionalism as kespa? maybe they dont have samsung, air companies and telecoms sponsoring them, but i would say production wise they're doing alright with what they've got. keep on hating tho Once again, I am not hating. Until Gom can come up with a plan to get their players stable salaries, contracts, and proper team management, I will hold to my analogy. I am not hating, I think their effort and production has been exceptional and has contributed a significant amount of growth and interest to SC2.
GOM has catered to the overall scene. KeSPA only catered to Korea.
What's more important is the scene all around, not just in Korea.
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