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On August 24 2012 10:47 red4ce wrote:
When Kespa players are top to bottom equal or better than GOM players then we can worry about this. As it stands right now code S is still the league that features the most elite players. Besides Kespa have only forbidden their players from participating in only the next GSL, not all future GSLs indefinitely.
Dont be naive. KeSPA should let their players participate last GSL season and they didnt due to 'players are not ready'. Now 2-3 months past and a brand new GSL season begins, they still refuse to let their players play in GOM tournament for the same reason. Ironically, they let their players participate WCS and WCG.
With last agreement between KeSPA/OGN - GOM- Blizzard, everyone thought KeSPA would get more and more involved into current SC2 scene. It turns out KeSPA just want to monopoly the Korean SC2 in the long run.
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And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because?????
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On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because?????
Because the "E-Sports Vision" thing they declared with GOM / Blizzard. They obviously doesn't believe in it, but the acted like they did and played everyone else for fools.
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Show me their signature on a contract...
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On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because?????
Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend?
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If they get stomped, it would be pretty bad for the scene. I think they would get stomped, blizzard does too and wants to protect them. It's fine but I really don't think they can catch up as fast as everyone assumes. You can't cover them forever.
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On August 24 2012 11:11 ShadeR wrote:
Show me their signature on a contract...
Legally speak you are right. But when you act like an arsehole legally doesn't mean everyone else have to be happy about it.
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On August 24 2012 11:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:59 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:38 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:33 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:29 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote:
So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. Now there's competition: GSL vs OSL. In OSL we get to see the best of Kespa and GSL players. Winning OSL means you are the best of the best. In GSL, we only see GSL players. I would say GOM is worse off than before. Yes I fully recognize that the OSL is a legitimate contender to the status of GSL as Korea's premier SC2 league. What I disagree with is that Kespa's actions are a threat to the very existence of the GSL in the same way Kespa essentially killed the GOMtv classic. I believe Kespa does not have that kind of leverage and power in SC2. In these first 2 years GOM has built up enough of a foundation in Korea, not to mention tapping into the foreign market which Kespa had completely ignored. Maybe GOM can survive but I'm just trying to fill in the blanks of your original post. Your original post: why are people upset if this GSL participation ban is only for one season? My response: People see this as a move to suppress GOM. Somewhat similar to what happened a few years ago (although some differences like you mentioned), and if history repeats itself, as it often does, then GSL fans have lots to lose.
Right, well thank you for taking the time to explain to me. After reading the responses to my question, my conclusion is still that, yes Kespa is being a dick but it's more bark than bite and until more information comes out it's premature to assume the worst and predict doomsday scenarios.
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I hope Blizzard launches a Nuke on the Kespa building and bans all Kespa players from WCS!
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On August 24 2012 11:11 ShadeR wrote:
Show me their signature on a contract...
for what?
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On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because?????
There is a tiny difference between "being obligated to participate" and "not allowed to participate"..
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On August 24 2012 11:12 SeggsyLori wrote:
I hope Blizzard launches a Nuke on the Kespa building and bans all Kespa players from WCS! I rather prefer Samsung to leave KeSPA and start backing Federation teams. That would severely harm KeSPA, and slightly more realistic than the nuke.
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Hopefullt this bites Kespa in the ass more than it does GOMs
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On August 24 2012 10:41 Whiplash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:38 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:33 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:29 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote:
So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. What good is a league that can't even showcase the best players? That is the future of this situation if something isn't done. I think that blizzard needs to intervene here and basically tell kespa they can't prevent players from playing in leagues, or the kespa teams need to say scew kespa and do their own thing.
kespa and kespa teams are the exact same thing
the players themselves could say "screw that" and attend qualifiers on their own but i don't think anyone has the balls to do it plus they're paid way too much to try out for GSL on the offchance that they make it into code a
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On August 24 2012 11:12 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:06 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:59 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:38 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:33 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:29 red4ce wrote:On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote:
So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. Now there's competition: GSL vs OSL. In OSL we get to see the best of Kespa and GSL players. Winning OSL means you are the best of the best. In GSL, we only see GSL players. I would say GOM is worse off than before. Yes I fully recognize that the OSL is a legitimate contender to the status of GSL as Korea's premier SC2 league. What I disagree with is that Kespa's actions are a threat to the very existence of the GSL in the same way Kespa essentially killed the GOMtv classic. I believe Kespa does not have that kind of leverage and power in SC2. In these first 2 years GOM has built up enough of a foundation in Korea, not to mention tapping into the foreign market which Kespa had completely ignored. Maybe GOM can survive but I'm just trying to fill in the blanks of your original post. Your original post: why are people upset if this GSL participation ban is only for one season? My response: People see this as a move to suppress GOM. Somewhat similar to what happened a few years ago (although some differences like you mentioned), and if history repeats itself, as it often does, then GSL fans have lots to lose. Right, well thank you for taking the time to explain to me. After reading the responses to my question, my conclusion is still that, yes Kespa is being a dick but it's more bark than bite and until more information comes out it's premature to assume the worst and predict doomsday scenarios.
Well, for a brief period right nowGOM still have considerable power in this situation because their players are still superior in SC2. But if they don't use that power soon (HoTS launch at latest), it will just disappear then they are REALLY screwed (well, they can hope Blizzard to save their arse, but who would trust Blizzard anyway). Which is why KeSPA is trying to stall by going "sorry we are not ready yet, maybe next time" even though it makes no sense (GOM player in OSL already).
From KeSPA side as long as they can act like maybe cooperating until their player catch up and OSL can stand as its own, they can then try to kick GOM out much easier.
From GOM side they have to get in a desirable position before HoTS launch to avoid being backstabbed, and OSL is obviously trying to prevent that by refusing to let their players enter GSL.
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On August 24 2012 09:28 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:27 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone participating in Gom's league gets a salary. Gom does not own the teams. The teams are in charge of getting salaries, food, lodging, and travel. Gom is not Kespa in that regard. And that is what my definition of professionalism is which is why I made the analogy to begin with.
Actually, in that way, I think GOM is superior to KeSPA, because it means GOM doesn't have the same leverage to fuck with players and other tourneys. Power corrupts.
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On August 24 2012 11:14 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:12 SeggsyLori wrote:
I hope Blizzard launches a Nuke on the Kespa building and bans all Kespa players from WCS! I rather prefer Samsung to leave KeSPA and start backing Federation teams. That would severely harm KeSPA, and slightly more realistic than the nuke.
that's actually the most likely team to do so.
if anyone didn't know, Samsung have the loosest practice schedule out of ALL teams.
Stork held 60% of win rate (which is top tier in BW) while watching One Piece, playing World of WarCraft AND have a girlfriend of his own all at the same time.
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On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend?
It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW.
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I think some segregation will do them well. Come HotS, they should stay separated for the first couple months then gradually ease into mixed leagues. That'll prove which side has more talent to quash the proverbial "elephant". :D
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On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW.
And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose.
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EPT
