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On August 24 2012 11:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:14 achan1058 wrote:On August 24 2012 11:12 SeggsyLori wrote:
I hope Blizzard launches a Nuke on the Kespa building and bans all Kespa players from WCS! I rather prefer Samsung to leave KeSPA and start backing Federation teams. That would severely harm KeSPA, and slightly more realistic than the nuke. that's actually the most likely team to do so. if anyone didn't know, Samsung have the loosest practice schedule out of ALL teams. Stork held 60% of win rate (which is top tier in BW) while watching One Piece, playing World of WarCraft AND have a girlfriend of his own all at the same time.
yea but its fucking sotrk
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On August 24 2012 11:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:14 achan1058 wrote:On August 24 2012 11:12 SeggsyLori wrote:
I hope Blizzard launches a Nuke on the Kespa building and bans all Kespa players from WCS! I rather prefer Samsung to leave KeSPA and start backing Federation teams. That would severely harm KeSPA, and slightly more realistic than the nuke. that's actually the most likely team to do so. if anyone didn't know, Samsung have the loosest practice schedule out of ALL teams. Stork held 60% of win rate (which is top tier in BW) while watching One Piece, playing World of WarCraft AND have a girlfriend of his own all at the same time.
I was not thinking of that, but on how Samsung would benefit a lot more from the international scene compared to the telecom companies and banks. I don't think any of those other companies have sales and lawsuits world wide.
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United States11393 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote:
So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again.
Kespa never "killed" GOM in BW so don't treat it like some dumb powerplay.
The issue was that there was too many leagues at that time and it got to point where people couldn't even practice for gom matches due to more important stuff IE PL which lead to unexpected upsets ie Iris crushing Effort cause Effort was too busy practicing for other stuff but Iris spent all practice time to beat Effort. Then, you had people like Jaedong who was in OSL, MSL, GOM, and near end of Proleague season with Playoffs beginning. Pretty clear which league will be dropped first in terms of practice time.
There were still some teams who wanted to continue playing in GOM ie Hwaseung too. (around 5 maybe?)
The pulling out of individual leagues to focus on PL has precedent too where T1 would remove players from individ league so that they could focus on Proleague.
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On August 24 2012 11:12 Luepert wrote:
If they get stomped, it would be pretty bad for the scene. I think they would get stomped, blizzard does too and wants to protect them. It's fine but I really don't think they can catch up as fast as everyone assumes. You can't cover them forever.
There will be many non-kespa players participating in the upcoming OSL. There's no protecting them anymore.
If I had to bet on somebody to win it though, it would be on a Kespa player however, because of their ridiculous work ethic and training regimes.
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On August 24 2012 11:23 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW. And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose.
And that is fine but my post was really just in reply to the posts under the presumption that KeSPA has broke some sort of rule, which this thread is chock full of.
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Well, they broke their "E-Sports Vision" thing which was part of the deal of them getting SC2 broadcast rights. It is not well defined but they pretty much broke the spirit of an agreement they entered.
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On August 24 2012 11:26 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:23 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW. And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose. And that is fine but my post was really just in reply to the posts under the presumption that KeSPA has broke some sort of rule, which this thread is chock full of.
If that's what you are driving at, then I have no clue. Not sure if they agreed to anything with Blizz during their publicity meet-and-greet.
I know people in this thread want Blizz to use their leverage to influence Kespa's decision. Not sure how that will go.
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????
some people dont seem to understand why kespa is getting bashed???
back in brood war kespa claimed that they had the rights to broadcast broodwar (which really isnt since all the copyrights
are entitled to blizz), so kespa asked gom tv (gom classic back then) to pay fees if gom wanted to host a league to which
gom refused (btw gom already had permission from blizzard). Kespa all of a sudden pulled all the players from the league
so gom had no choice but to call it quits.
theyre just repeating what they did a few years ago cuz they wanna take the control
btw due to scheduling reasons blah blah is all bullshit cuz all of the kespa players managed to participate in 4 leagues at
the time. i dunno what the "big project" theyre working on is, but nice excuse from kespa.
One more thing is that some people seem to think that kespa players are getting paid, yeah star players like
jaedong and flash (aka TBLS) do get paid a lot, but the majority of players are getting such a low salary. It would be
better for them to participate in gsl so that they can at least earn some money (i think qualifying for code a grants you $300
right??)
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On August 24 2012 11:24 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote:
So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. Kespa never "killed" GOM in BW so don't treat it like some dumb powerplay. The issue was that there was too many leagues at that time and it got to point where people couldn't even practice for gom matches due to more important stuff IE PL which lead to unexpected upsets ie Iris crushing Effort cause Effort was too busy practicing for other stuff but Iris spent all practice time to beat Effort. Then, you had people like Jaedong who was in OSL, MSL, GOM, and near end of Proleague season with Playoffs beginning. Pretty clear which league will be dropped first in terms of practice time. There were still some teams who wanted to continue playing in GOM ie Hwaseung too. (around 5 maybe?) The pulling out of individual leagues to focus on PL has precedent too where T1 would remove players from individ league so that they could focus on Proleague.
Are you saying Kespa had no intention to suppress GOMTV Classic? Is that true? Can we get a BW historian in here.
Most accounts I've heard is that Kespa didn't like the GOM+Blizz combo since Kespa operated outside of Blizz's sphere, so they intended for that to happen.
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On August 24 2012 11:29 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:26 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:23 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW. And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose. And that is fine but my post was really just in reply to the posts under the presumption that KeSPA has broke some sort of rule, which this thread is chock full of. If that's what you are driving at, then I have no clue. Not sure if they agreed to anything with Blizz during their publicity meet-and-greet. I know people in this thread want Blizz to use their leverage to influence Kespa's decision. Not sure how that will go.
There are many people that thinks that Kespa decided to call off the participation in the original GSL. But that's not true.
7 teams decided not to participate (MBC, Ongamenet, KT, Estro, Stx, SKT1, Kong Goon)
But then it was GomTV themselves that cancelled the event because they thought it would be useless then.
Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104250
News: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=100203&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
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On August 24 2012 11:26 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:23 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW. And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose. And that is fine but my post was really just in reply to the posts under the presumption that KeSPA has broke some sort of rule, which this thread is chock full of.
Did they break a rule? No. Did they just act completely unnecessarily to restrict the freedom of their players for no discernible reason? Yes. Players should always have final say on the tournaments they attend.
And don't give me any of this players = teams teams = Kespa crap. It's incredibly clear, and has been for a while, that Kespa doesn't have the best interests of the players at heart. Especially those players who aren't already superstars.
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On August 24 2012 11:34 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:29 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 11:26 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:23 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 24 2012 11:21 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 11:11 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 24 2012 11:08 ShadeR wrote:
And KeSPA are obligated to participate in GOM tourney because????? Why shouldn't the players have the final say on what tournaments they attend? It's been addressed before but I'll say it again. The players are under the employ of the teams. The teams dictate which tourneys players may or may not participate in. KeSPA organisation is essentially a consortium of all the teams. So in effect all the teams have pulled their players out of this tourney just as with the GOM classic in BW. And that's why people are upset. Kespa wins. Fans lose. Gom loses. Players (especially Jaedong who wanted to compete in the GSL qualfiers) lose. And that is fine but my post was really just in reply to the posts under the presumption that KeSPA has broke some sort of rule, which this thread is chock full of. If that's what you are driving at, then I have no clue. Not sure if they agreed to anything with Blizz during their publicity meet-and-greet. I know people in this thread want Blizz to use their leverage to influence Kespa's decision. Not sure how that will go. There are many people that thinks that Kespa decided to call off the participation in the original GSL. But that's not true. There are only a handful of teams that pulled off. afaik, STX, Khan, eStro, Fox and Stars still wanted to play in the upcoming fourth season. But then it was GomTV themselves that cancelled the event because they thought it would be useless then.
You really think KESPA wasn't pressuring the teams to hold back their players? I would have too especially because of how exhausting their schedule already was. Practice 14 hours a day. Only break is if you have a match then the fucking pressure is on. During team league you have to be there which might be your biggest break, but also your biggest source of stress. Then if you were lucky enough to be in the OSL/MSL/GOM you might have to practice XvZ XvT and XvP all in the same week. Oh wait proleague is on let's marathon some matches while you're at it. It was better run when it was kept simple, but should have been more year round like 3OSL/MSL a year
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Kespa never "killed" GOM in BW so don't treat it like some dumb powerplay.
The issue was that there was too many leagues at that time and it got to point where people couldn't even practice for gom matches due to more important stuff IE PL which lead to unexpected upsets ie Iris crushing Effort cause Effort was too busy practicing for other stuff but Iris spent all practice time to beat Effort. Then, you had people like Jaedong who was in OSL, MSL, GOM, and near end of Proleague season with Playoffs beginning. Pretty clear which league will be dropped first in terms of practice time.
There were still some teams who wanted to continue playing in GOM ie Hwaseung too. (around 5 maybe?)
The pulling out of individual leagues to focus on PL has precedent too where T1 would remove players from individ league so that they could focus on Proleague.
do you know that kespa demanded money from gom (back in gom classic) cuz they thought they were entitled to
broadcasting rights of brood war? the reason they pulled out is cuz gom refused to pay anything to kespa
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United States97276 Posts
Well this announcement is a little disappointing, but I guess overall it's not *too* surprising. Oh well. I'm still going to watch it and I don't understand these people saying that it is killing the integrity of the league. It's the same as it was before.
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On August 24 2012 11:39 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +Kespa never "killed" GOM in BW so don't treat it like some dumb powerplay.
The issue was that there was too many leagues at that time and it got to point where people couldn't even practice for gom matches due to more important stuff IE PL which lead to unexpected upsets ie Iris crushing Effort cause Effort was too busy practicing for other stuff but Iris spent all practice time to beat Effort. Then, you had people like Jaedong who was in OSL, MSL, GOM, and near end of Proleague season with Playoffs beginning. Pretty clear which league will be dropped first in terms of practice time.
There were still some teams who wanted to continue playing in GOM ie Hwaseung too. (around 5 maybe?)
The pulling out of individual leagues to focus on PL has precedent too where T1 would remove players from individ league so that they could focus on Proleague. do you know that kespa demanded money from gom (back in gom classic) cuz they thought they were entitled to broadcasting rights of brood war? the reason they pulled out is cuz gom refused to pay anything to kespa
Links or didn't happen.
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On August 24 2012 09:28 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 09:27 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone participating in Gom's league gets a salary. Gom does not own the teams. The teams are in charge of getting salaries, food, lodging, and travel. Gom is not Kespa in that regard. And that is what my definition of professionalism is which is why I made the analogy to begin with.
Your analogy does not make any sense.
GSL is a tournament / league (equivalent of OSL). GOM is an organization that host GSL, like OSN hosts OSL. They don't pay salary to anyone except their own staff. e-Sports Federation is the governing body of SC2 teams, in this way they are similar to KeSPA. e-SF players get paid by their team, just like KeSPA players get paid by their team, except e-SF don't have the same restrictive rules KeSPA have.
The whole thing because people came up with "KeSPA vs GOM" while it should be "KeSPA vs e-SF" or "OSL vs GSL"
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I hope some players quit their kespa teams and move to the federation teams, pretty funny how this deal was negotiated to have no team transfers for a year. I bet kespa spearheaded that move to further screw gom over
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that's because they are looking toward the future of esport.
a sport or game for that matter is public property that belongs to the mass.
But then later we all learned that esport(s) are just fads.
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EPT
