EPTNo Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL - Page 68
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote: So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote: So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? It comes off as a power move meant to screw Gom over. Federation players play in Kespa leagues but not the reverse? Who is to say whether Kespa will allow their players in the next GSL either. More reasons but that is the gist of it. Also they are not going to MLG so that partnership seems kind of a waste atm. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:27 SarcasmMonster wrote: Basically this is a repeat of history (GOMTV Classic), so people are worried that Kespa is trying to kill GOM again. But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote: So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? GOM is affected because they were expecting the spectacle of their players vs. the KeSPa players, like in the OSL upcoming, but KeSPa is saying no, so now they are getting all of the business and hype from having both sets of players. It is not just this, but because of the past history of KeSPa's actions toward GOM and any non-KeSPa people all together, which was supposed to change with their "E-Sports Vision" deal, but so far we have not really seen that. On top of that, the KeSPa players are getting the shaft because they want to play, they want a chance to win just as any competitor should. GOM and Blizzard gave KeSPa rights to broadcast SC2 as part of this deal, but so far KeSPA has not been showing what we have been expecting them to show as their end of the bargain. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:29 red4ce wrote: But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:33 SarcasmMonster wrote: Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. You make a good point. Short term this doesn't do anything. In the long run when the kespa players surpass the gsl players though people may jump ship. Scumbag kespa no play nice =( | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:33 SarcasmMonster wrote: Well, not everyone sees it that way. Many people see this as a power play to hurt GOM in long run. No matter which side you take, you'd still have to agree that no Flash/Stork/Bisu/Fanta/JD in GSL will hurt GOM's bottom line. But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. | ||
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oBlade
United States5823 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:25 red4ce wrote: So I don't really feel like reading 67 pages. Can someone tell me why this has become such a big issue? The Kespa players are getting the shaft no doubt about it but from a viewer point of view it's not that big of a deal as long as Kespa allows its players to participate from GSL Season 5 onswards. I don't understand the poll that Kespa is doing this to screw GOM? How is GOM affected by this? I don't get it either. On the one hand, people love to play up how much better it is to watch Federation players play SC2, then get mad that KeSPA didn't let their players into the GSL for one season. As though GOM hasn't been holding its own for two years. Let alone the huge effect this will have - GOM players in the OSL but no KeSPA players in the GSL. KeSPA generally offered GOM players a 50% shot at the OSL prize pool, while not sending its own players in to take GSL prize money (yet), knowing that KeSPA team sponsorships make fair money from salaries. Or did KeSPA take the GSL players into the OSL for a miniscule ratings boost that OGN doesn't need (and wouldn't help PL viewership) while robbing GOM of a chance to get a few more people buying passes on the off-chance that some guys with star power got into Code A? | ||
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Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:38 red4ce wrote: But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. What good is a league that can't even showcase the best players? That is the future of this situation if something isn't done. I think that blizzard needs to intervene here and basically tell kespa they can't prevent players from playing in leagues, or the kespa teams need to say scew kespa and do their own thing. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:39 oBlade wrote: I don't get it either. On the one hand, people love to play up how much better it is to watch Federation players play SC2, then get mad that KeSPA didn't let their players into the GSL for one season. As though GOM hasn't been holding its own for two years. Let alone the huge effect this will have - GOM players in the OSL but no KeSPA players in the GSL. KeSPA generally offered GOM players a 50% shot at the OSL prize pool, while not sending its own players in to take GSL prize money (yet), knowing that KeSPA team sponsorships make fair money from salaries. Or did KeSPA take the GSL players into the OSL for a miniscule ratings boost that OGN doesn't need (and wouldn't help PL viewership) while robbing GOM of a chance to get a few more people buying passes on the off-chance that some guys with star power got into Code A? If both leagues were cooperative both leagues would gain viewers. Proleague could gain a lot if it could draw in the international audience. | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:29 red4ce wrote: But the situation is not the same. Back then GOM was the outsider trying to break into an established scene. This time GOM is plenty successful enough to stand on its own, as evidenced by the last 2 years of professional SC2 competition. GOM HAD the best Korean and foreign players. GOM was the only major league in Korea. GOM was the only option for pro players who wanted to play SC2 They had 2 years, but those were 2 uncontested years. Now, they're going to have to fight, and unless Blizzard chooses to fully dismantle KESPA/OGN though preventing them from broadcasting, KESPA will probably shut them down. KESPA teams wouldn't even have to try that hard to dismantle GOM teams. So, yes people are worried about a company that appeals to us foreigners being taken down. Also KESPA could easily make all the improvements that GOM has, so the only difference between the leagues is that KESPA will most likely have the better talent pool. It is worrisome that KESPA may again have a monopoly over the SC2 market in Korea. On August 24 2012 10:42 mrtomjones wrote: If both leagues were cooperative both leagues would gain viewers. Proleague could gain a lot if it could draw in the international audience. Over saturation of stuff to watch already. Now, they should see an increase in numbers because Korean fans have to watch something now, but they will be dividing up the market. On August 24 2012 10:45 RavenLoud wrote: We love to rant on Blizzard and how they killed SC1 but looking at it now, there is no way that BW could have been more succesful as long as Kespa exists IMO. Fuck Kespa. They should put Boxer in charge or something  Sorry, but KESPA made starcraft an esport. Any more successful? Shit any more successful and they might as well have just bought blizzard | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Fuck Kespa. They should put Boxer in charge or something | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:41 Whiplash wrote: What good is a league that can't even showcase the best players? That is the future of this situation if something isn't done. I think that blizzard needs to intervene here and basically tell kespa they can't prevent players from playing in leagues, or the kespa teams need to say scew kespa and do their own thing. When Kespa players are top to bottom equal or better than GOM players then we can worry about this. As it stands right now code S is still the league that features the most elite players. Besides Kespa have only forbidden their players from participating in only the next GSL, not all future GSLs indefinitely. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:38 red4ce wrote: But GOM doesn't need Kespa, it has enough of its own fanbase plus the foreign scene support. Maybe the GSL's ceiling popularity in Korea would be limited by not having Kespa superstars but even in a worst case scenario it would be no worse than the current status quo. Now there's competition: GSL vs OSL. In OSL we get to see the best of Kespa and GSL players. Winning OSL means you are the best of the best. In GSL, we only see GSL players. I would say GOM is worse off than before. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:39 oBlade wrote: I don't get it either. On the one hand, people love to play up how much better it is to watch Federation players play SC2, then get mad that KeSPA didn't let their players into the GSL for one season. As though GOM hasn't been holding its own for two years. Let alone the huge effect this will have - GOM players in the OSL but no KeSPA players in the GSL. KeSPA generally offered GOM players a 50% shot at the OSL prize pool, while not sending its own players in to take GSL prize money (yet), knowing that KeSPA team sponsorships make fair money from salaries. Or did KeSPA take the GSL players into the OSL for a miniscule ratings boost that OGN doesn't need (and wouldn't help PL viewership) while robbing GOM of a chance to get a few more people buying passes on the off-chance that some guys with star power got into Code A? Because we think that integration between both scenes would help propel the SC2 scene by quite a large margin, but KesPA seems to be interested in the opposite, for now. So people get mad because they see that the chance to boost up the scene is denied, for now. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:39 oBlade wrote: I don't get it either. On the one hand, people love to play up how much better it is to watch Federation players play SC2, then get mad that KeSPA didn't let their players into the GSL for one season. As though GOM hasn't been holding its own for two years. Let alone the huge effect this will have - GOM players in the OSL but no KeSPA players in the GSL. KeSPA generally offered GOM players a 50% shot at the OSL prize pool, while not sending its own players in to take GSL prize money (yet), knowing that KeSPA team sponsorships make fair money from salaries. Or did KeSPA take the GSL players into the OSL for a miniscule ratings boost that OGN doesn't need (and wouldn't help PL viewership) while robbing GOM of a chance to get a few more people buying passes on the off-chance that some guys with star power got into Code A? I don't think most people REALLY care about "KeSPA player in GSL", it's that KeSPA repeatedly back off what was promised / implied by their "ESports Vision". People don't like being manipulated even when the direct result doesn't really hurt them -- this is the main storyline of American Revolution, as the "tea tax" would actually lower tea price in Americas; but no taxation without representation and all that shit went down. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:48 SarcasmMonster wrote: Now there's competition: GSL vs OSL. In OSL we get to see the best of Kespa and GSL players. Winning OSL means you are the best of the best. In GSL, we only see GSL players. I would say GOM is worse off than before. Yes I fully recognize that the OSL is a legitimate contender to the status of GSL as Korea's premier SC2 league. What I disagree with is that Kespa's actions are a threat to the very existence of the GSL in the same way Kespa essentially killed the GOMtv classic. I believe Kespa does not have that kind of leverage and power in SC2. In these first 2 years GOM has built up enough of a foundation in Korea, not to mention tapping into the foreign market which Kespa had completely ignored. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:47 red4ce wrote: When Kespa players are top to bottom equal or better than GOM players then we can worry about this. As it stands right now code S is still the league that features the most elite players. Besides Kespa have only forbidden their players from participating in only the next GSL, not all future GSLs indefinitely. Problem is this is second straight GSL they did this, and this time with total BS reasoning. Why should people trust them to show up next time? | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 24 2012 10:59 red4ce wrote: Yes I fully recognize that the OSL is a legitimate contender to the status of GSL as Korea's premier SC2 league. What I disagree with is that Kespa's actions are a threat to the very existence of the GSL in the same way Kespa essentially killed the GOMtv classic. I believe Kespa does not have that kind of leverage and power in SC2. In these first 2 years GOM has built up enough of a foundation in Korea, not to mention tapping into the foreign market which Kespa had completely ignored. Maybe GOM can survive but I'm just trying to fill in the blanks of your original post. Your original post: why are people upset if this GSL participation ban is only for one season? My response: People see this as a move to suppress GOM. Somewhat similar to what happened a few years ago (although some differences like you mentioned), and if history repeats itself, as it often does, then GSL fans have lots to lose. | ||
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