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On August 24 2012 04:43 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:37 Xiphos wrote:
If everyone boycott OGN, the OSL will fail. If OSL fails, bringing StarCraft 2 to Korean mainstreams will fail. Then the whole scene collapses.
This is exactly what I'm afraid of. The Korean scene is way too fragile and important for us to rock it with boycotts and witch hunts. There needs to be reasonable behavior from everyone.
SC2 in Korean was doing fine for 3 years even if it's not exactly mainstream. With a bigger player pool and no competition from BW, It might have a chance to be mainstream even without KeSPA and their stupidly restrictive system.
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On August 24 2012 04:45 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:40 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe. I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies. I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
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On August 23 2012 18:36 Chenz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:32 Kommander wrote:On August 23 2012 18:28 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 23 2012 18:26 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 23 2012 16:50 Canucklehead wrote:
Kespa wielding their iron grip again, which I find kind of sad. No free will for the players. Each WCS player in their interview said they would like to play in qualifiers, but it's up to their team. Always with that caveat of needing team permission. They're trained well. Because they are pros, GSL players are just semi pros. What? Define a pro. While some of the GSL players are not making a ton of money and a few are splitting playing with school, most of them are playing full time and some are really monetarily successful. KeSPA gives out progamer licenses. GSL players don't have them, so by KeSPA standards, they are semi-pros or amateurs. But by the definition of the word, many GSL players are progamers. I'm honestly disgusted that a tournament organizer has this amount of control that KeSPA has over players participating in their league. Here's to hoping players will break away from KeSPA, but I doubt that will ever happen.
Isn't NBA also have this kind of power. I believe most professional league association have this power.
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For all those that think its Kespa protecting their players lol. The OSL is happening right now, and its Kespa vs GSL players. Its been happening the last few days. So Kespa players will already be playing against quite a few Code S GSL players in Ro16 OSL.
Kespa has their OSL and GSL was going to have Kespa players in it for Season 4. However, Kespa backed out / turned down GOM to be able to have kespa players playing in it for Season 4. While at the same exact time Kespa is still going through with the OSL(dual tourny, kespa vs gsl).
Clearly Kespa is not afraid enough to have their players up against GSL Code S players, and are simply stamping out GOM from getting money/viewers. This is completely with-in Blizzards rights to get involved, based on the contract that Blizzard forced Kespa to sign. Kespa has to play fair.
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On August 24 2012 04:45 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:39 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:36 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:34 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane. And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL? The old BW pros can't even dominate SC2. Why would they do well in LoL, a completely different kind of game? .... I think you misunderstood. We're cureently talking about situation where Blizz bans SC2 production for Kespa. So my idea was that Kespa would switch to LoL instead of hanging onto SC2 No you seem to have misunderstood me. I'm saying that the BW players won't be able to keep their salaries as they probably won't be great at LoL. If they can't crush the SC2 competition even though these games are very similar why would people follow them playing a game they're not used to nor good at?
Just as you said, for some it might be great because they might have dominated BW and sucked at SC2 now they get another chance.
Some may have talent in different genre such as MOBA. Also, having SC skill can be asset when playing LoL
Even though I hate to say this but LoL is an easier game to handle compare to Starcraft. Do you think Yellow or Reach moved to coach LoL if they sucked ass at it?
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On August 24 2012 04:45 Blueblister wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:31 Kilby wrote:On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now. Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa? Kespa (Korean e-Sports Association) is controlled by the BW team sponsors and a few other stakeholders (like OGN). All contracted players (some b-teamers might not be contracted) must get permission both from the team owners and Kespa to play in any BW/SC2 tournament. They are also obliged to play in a league if their team wants them to. Note that this is a different setup from the west. Western teams are usually merely sponsored by a certain company, enjoying some kind of autonomy. In Korea the financial backer owns the team, therefore calling all the shots.
Nice, thanks that clears a lot of it. So in the West, the owners are usually not that interested in the decisions that their teams make (yet) but in Korea they have actually set up an association to control all of that. I would also imagine that it would be very difficult to set up a new professional team in Korea that is completely disconnected from Kespa because that would make it very difficult to gain any sponsors.
I guess that all that is left to the players if they wish to go against the Kespa decision of not participating in GSL is to go completely teamless and then participate in GSL (which is probably not a great idea for 95/100 players).
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On August 24 2012 04:55 Kilby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:45 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:31 Kilby wrote:On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now. Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa? Kespa (Korean e-Sports Association) is controlled by the BW team sponsors and a few other stakeholders (like OGN). All contracted players (some b-teamers might not be contracted) must get permission both from the team owners and Kespa to play in any BW/SC2 tournament. They are also obliged to play in a league if their team wants them to. Note that this is a different setup from the west. Western teams are usually merely sponsored by a certain company, enjoying some kind of autonomy. In Korea the financial backer owns the team, therefore calling all the shots. Nice, thanks that clears a lot of it. So in the West, the owners are usually not that interested in the decisions that their teams make (yet) but in Korea they have actually set up an association to control all of that. I would also imagine that it would be very difficult to set up a new professional team in Korea that is completely disconnected from Kespa because that would make it very difficult to gain any sponsors. I guess that all that is left to the players if they wish to go against the Kespa decision of not participating in GSL is to go completely teamless and then participate in GSL (which is probably not a great idea for 95/100 players).
Or if players take action and take some power back. For example, Flash and Jaedong to sign up for Code A. What KeSPA gonna do? Fire them? But it won't work without organization (player's union) and top players obviously.
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On August 24 2012 04:49 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:36 Chenz wrote:On August 23 2012 18:32 Kommander wrote:On August 23 2012 18:28 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 23 2012 18:26 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 23 2012 16:50 Canucklehead wrote:
Kespa wielding their iron grip again, which I find kind of sad. No free will for the players. Each WCS player in their interview said they would like to play in qualifiers, but it's up to their team. Always with that caveat of needing team permission. They're trained well. Because they are pros, GSL players are just semi pros. What? Define a pro. While some of the GSL players are not making a ton of money and a few are splitting playing with school, most of them are playing full time and some are really monetarily successful. KeSPA gives out progamer licenses. GSL players don't have them, so by KeSPA standards, they are semi-pros or amateurs. But by the definition of the word, many GSL players are progamers. I'm honestly disgusted that a tournament organizer has this amount of control that KeSPA has over players participating in their league. Here's to hoping players will break away from KeSPA, but I doubt that will ever happen. Isn't NBA also have this kind of power. I believe most professional league association have this power.
They do, but NBA player also have union, so the decisions can't be unilaterally forced upon its players like KeSPA is doing.
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On August 24 2012 04:47 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:45 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:40 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe. I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies. I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure. Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net. I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
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Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...).
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On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...).
They pretty much have infinite power compared to BW (they made sure to not make same mistake again in ToS). Any SC2 tournament / broadcast require permission from them, which is a big reason why KeSPA only coming on board to SC2 now (they were in a lawsuit over this with Blizzard and only recently accepted Blizzard's term).
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On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...).
I don't think Blizzard has power to do anything impactful. IPs are already granted. And they have been on losing side of the battle against Kespa for years.
The companies behind Kespa are way more powerful than Activision.
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On August 24 2012 05:09 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...). I don't think Blizzard has power to do anything impactful. IPs are already granted. And they have been on losing side of the battle against Kespa for years.
COMPLETELY different terms in SC2 from BW, Blizzard pretty much wrote their ToS directly against KeSPA's BW practice.
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On August 24 2012 04:51 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:45 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:39 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:36 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:34 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane. And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL? The old BW pros can't even dominate SC2. Why would they do well in LoL, a completely different kind of game? .... I think you misunderstood. We're cureently talking about situation where Blizz bans SC2 production for Kespa. So my idea was that Kespa would switch to LoL instead of hanging onto SC2 No you seem to have misunderstood me. I'm saying that the BW players won't be able to keep their salaries as they probably won't be great at LoL. If they can't crush the SC2 competition even though these games are very similar why would people follow them playing a game they're not used to nor good at? Just as you said, for some it might be great because they might have dominated BW and sucked at SC2 now they get another chance. Some may have talent in different genre such as MOBA. Also, having SC skill can be asset when playing LoL Even though I hate to say this but LoL is an easier game to handle compare to Starcraft. Do you think Yellow or Reach moved to coach LoL if they sucked ass at it?
comparing LoL to SC2 is like comparing SC2 to BW, only 100x worse. point is, you can't apply multitasking, speed, precision etc in games like LoL if you're from starcraft background. it was discussed before, please move on.
Yellow and co moved to LoL for the money, because it's fucking huge in Korea. it's not that hard to understand...
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On August 24 2012 05:09 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...). I don't think Blizzard has power to do anything impactful. IPs are already granted. And they have been on losing side of the battle against Kespa for years.
Blizzard owns the rights to the game. They don't let tournaments over a certain size (I think $20,000 or something) take place without their say. So yeah they could stop Kespa running SC2. I doubt they will. But they clearly arent happy about it.
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On August 24 2012 05:03 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:47 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 04:45 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:40 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe. I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies. I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure. Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net. I'm sure that many players still prefer that game. How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
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On August 24 2012 05:12 Sp00ly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 05:09 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...). I don't think Blizzard has power to do anything impactful. IPs are already granted. And they have been on losing side of the battle against Kespa for years. Blizzard owns the rights to the game. They don't let tournaments over a certain size (I think $20,000 or something) take place without their say. So yeah they could stop Kespa running SC2. I doubt they will. But they clearly arent happy about it.
But isn't OGN already got 2 years contract or something, so if they want to shut OSL down, they need to wait for 2 years.
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On August 24 2012 04:51 Armada Vega wrote:
For all those that think its Kespa protecting their players lol. The OSL is happening right now, and its Kespa vs GSL players. Its been happening the last few days. So Kespa players will already be playing against quite a few Code S GSL players in Ro16 OSL.
Kespa has their OSL and GSL was going to have Kespa players in it for Season 4. However, Kespa backed out / turned down GOM to be able to have kespa players playing in it for Season 4. While at the same exact time Kespa is still going through with the OSL(dual tourny, kespa vs gsl).
Clearly Kespa is not afraid enough to have their players up against GSL Code S players, and are simply stamping out GOM from getting money/viewers. This is completely with-in Blizzards rights to get involved, based on the contract that Blizzard forced Kespa to sign. Kespa has to play fair. Exactly, it's purely a business decision.
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On August 24 2012 05:09 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 05:05 densha wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of power Blizzard really has? Obviously they can just block IPs or accounts, but there's almost no chance that they'd even threaten to do that, right? I really hope they can actually force Kespa to reverse this decision because someone needs to police Kespa (ideally it should be a players union...). I don't think Blizzard has power to do anything impactful. IPs are already granted. And they have been on losing side of the battle against Kespa for years. The companies behind Kespa are way more powerful than Activision.
There's a difference. Kespa's winning argument is that Starcraft BW is public domain, but now they are forced to play through Blizz's servers (because of no LAN  ).
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On August 24 2012 05:12 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 05:03 Lunareste wrote:On August 24 2012 04:47 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 04:45 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:40 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe. I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies. I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure. Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net. I'm sure that many players still prefer that game. How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW. No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
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EPT
