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On August 24 2012 04:21 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:55 MichaelDonovan wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 Falling wrote: Does this affect how you watch the GSL at all? Yes it does. I hardly watch Korean SC2 these days and so if I do, it will definitely be to watch my KESPA favourites. In addition, I don't know if this is actually the case, but the OSL seems to play at more reasonable times for Pacific timezone than GOM. Back when it was scv-marine rushing all-ins, it was reasonable to watch it live, but now it ends like 5 or 6 in the morning. Can't work after several nights of that. Why don't you watch Korean SC2 anymore? It's kind of the best players and whatnot... There's VODs if you can't watch it live. I pretty much exclusively watch Korean players because they're better. I only have a few favorite foreigners that I watch for, but other than that, my true interest lies in the Korean scene. I'm interested to know how somebody could feel otherwise. I'll catch MLG on occasion as it is at a reasonable time, but for GOM you can only watch the first match for free on VODs. Or have they changed that? I just don't watch that much SC2 anymore. So if I am going to watch SC2, it will be for Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, Jangbi, etc.
Oh you don't want to pay for vods from Gom. It's worth it for me, but I guess some people just aren't as into it.
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On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that.
No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship?
If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now.
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On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now.
Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa?
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On August 24 2012 04:08 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". Making up stuff at its best
Oh really?
Today it was revealed that KeSPA players would not be participating in the GSL qualifiers. What are your thoughts on this?
The players don't really know the underlying reasons so we just followed orders. Personally, I think it's a real shame.
Source: RorO's Interview from today's WCG LR4 here
I hope we can finally put to bed the ridiculous idea that this is anything other than KeSPA blocking the players from doing what they want to do now?
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On August 24 2012 04:26 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN can not make any decision that KeSPA doesn't agree with, because KeSPA hold the rights of all KeSPA sanctioned events, including broadcast rights, teams, and players, not to mention that OGN is part of KeSPA board. They are like the IOC and OGN is like the Olympics hosting country (BTW, KeSPA is affiliated with Korean Olympic Committee). Any decision OGN make is by default agreed upon by KeSPA. Show nested quote +
2007년 1월 협회는 스타크래프트 프로리그에 중계권 개념을 도입해 중계권을 구입한 방송사에서만 리그를 중계할 수 있도록 하고, 중계 사업을 할 사업자를 공모하겠다고 발표했다. 기존에는 방송사들이 기업의 후원을 받아 방송을 제작했었고, 협회는 산업적 기반을 만들어나가기 위한 것이라 주장했다. 이에 기존에 리그를 방송하던 방송사들은 일방적인 중계 사업자 선정 사업에 유감을 표시했다. 협회는 같은 달 31일 홀로 입찰에 참가한 IEG가 중계 사업자로 선정되었다고 밝혔다. IEG는 기존에 리그를 방송하던 온게임넷과 MBC게임을 상대로 중계권 협상을 벌였고, 두 차례의 결렬 이후 3월 20일 양 방송사의 3년간 중계권을 인정하며 타결되었다. 이 과정에서 리그가 파행 운영되어 팬들의 반발을 사기도 했다.
Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:20 cujo2k wrote:
In what way are OGN and KeSPA married? OGN's biggest game is LoL, and they have to pay a yearly fee to cast KeSPA players. You are acting like KeSPA somehow owns OGN and controls them, but I don't see that connection at all.
You realize that KeSPA owns LoL broadcast rights in Korea also right?
Hmm I didn't realize that >_< Ok point taken. You're probably right in this case. It sounds like OGN's livelihood is completely dependent upon KeSPA, so they probably aren't going to piss them off.
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On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane.
And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL?
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On August 24 2012 04:31 Kilby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now. Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa?
Players can only participate in KeSPA events with a KeSPA issued "pro-licence". And only licensed player can be on pro teams. Teams (the organization) do not deal with KeSPA, because they ARE KeSPA.
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On August 24 2012 04:34 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane. And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL?
The old BW pros can't even dominate SC2. Why would they do well in LoL, a completely different kind of game?
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If everyone boycott OGN, the OSL will fail. If OSL fails, bringing StarCraft 2 to Korean mainstreams will fail. Then the whole scene collapses.
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On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now.
Not like a boycott will change anything...
The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do.
Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to?
That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
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Been a slow drama week it seems if boycotts are already suggested.
Seriously it's not unusual that competing leagues will try to maintain exclusivity to certain players.
I'm sure Gom was not always accommodating with schedules when big foreign events were happening and nobody threw a tantrum over it.
Besides - due to local sponsorship only Korean viewers have any serious possibility to hurt Kespa.
And most of those that transitioned to SC2 recently seem to be in it just for the celebrity worship.
That means they'll follow their favorite players regardless of Kespa policy and decisions.
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On August 24 2012 04:25 eviltomahawk wrote:
/r/starcraft is getting pretty ridiculous over this, calling for entire boycotts over KeSPA-related productions and what not. Seeing how lackluster the foreign viewer count for recent broadcasts of the hybrid Proleague and SC2 OSL have been, this is snowballing way out of control to a point that will hurt the scene as a whole.
I don't go to reddit but I agree with this. If kespa doesn't have a good reason for why they're doing this, I say the whole foreign scene DOES boycot kespa. Show them that they can either play nice, or GOM will get the foreign fans and overpower kespa. Or of course blizzard can also just step in and take away kespas SC2 rights and end it right there if kespa refuses to play nice.
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On August 24 2012 04:36 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:34 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane. And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL? The old BW pros can't even dominate SC2. Why would they do well in LoL, a completely different kind of game?
.... I think you misunderstood.
We're cureently talking about situation where Blizz bans SC2 production for Kespa. So my idea was that Kespa would switch to LoL instead of hanging onto SC2
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On August 24 2012 04:37 pmp10 wrote:
Been a slow drama week it seems if boycotts are already suggested.
Seriously it's not unusual that competing leagues will try to maintain exclusivity to certain players.
I'm sure Gom was not always accommodating with schedules when big foreign events were happening and nobody threw a tantrum over it.
Besides - due to local sponsorship only Korean viewers have any serious possibility to hurt Kespa.
And most of those that transitioned to SC2 recently seem to be in it just for the celebrity worship.
That means they'll follow their favorite players regardless of Kespa policy and decisions.
GOM is very accommodating on this actually, like they allowed HerO to participate in WCS even it is known before hand he would have to forfeit for MLG if he made far enough. They tends to shift player schedule / group when possible to allow them to compete in foreign events. KeSPA is like the... exactly opposite of what accommodating is.
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On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
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On August 24 2012 04:34 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:31 Kilby wrote:On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now. Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa? Players can only participate in KeSPA events with a KeSPA issued "pro-licence". And only licensed player can be on pro teams. Teams (the organization) do not deal with KeSPA, because they ARE KeSPA.
Thanks for the clarification. So from the player's perspective the tie to Kespa is really the team. So in that sense it would actually be quite difficult for an individual player to break off from Kespa, which is quite sad.
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On August 24 2012 04:37 Xiphos wrote:
If everyone boycott OGN, the OSL will fail. If OSL fails, bringing StarCraft 2 to Korean mainstreams will fail. Then the whole scene collapses.
This is exactly what I'm afraid of. The Korean scene is way too fragile and important for us to rock it with boycotts and witch hunts. There needs to be reasonable behavior from everyone.
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On August 24 2012 04:31 Kilby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:27 Blueblister wrote:On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help. OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players. Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now. Could you please clarify the relationship between Kespa and the individual players? Do the players actually have some kind of a contract with Kespa or is it just that the teams have deals with Kespa?
Kespa (Korean e-Sports Association) is controlled by the BW team sponsors and a few other stakeholders (like OGN). All contracted players (some b-teamers might not be contracted) must get permission both from the team owners and Kespa to play in any BW/SC2 tournament. They are also obliged to play in a league if their team wants them to.
Note that this is a different setup from the west. Western teams are usually merely sponsored by a certain company, enjoying some kind of autonomy. In Korea the financial backer owns the team, therefore calling all the shots.
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On August 24 2012 04:39 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:36 karpo wrote:On August 24 2012 04:34 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 04:24 Sutekhy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane. And all kespa pros dreamed of pursuing as successful BW progamer. But SC2 comes in and regardless if they like it or not, they are forced to play it because of money. Some didnt like this and retired. What makes you think pros will all quit if kespa switched to LoL? The old BW pros can't even dominate SC2. Why would they do well in LoL, a completely different kind of game? .... I think you misunderstood. We're cureently talking about situation where Blizz bans SC2 production for Kespa. So my idea was that Kespa would switch to LoL instead of hanging onto SC2
No you seem to have misunderstood me. I'm saying that the BW players won't be able to keep their salaries as they probably won't be great at LoL. If they can't crush the SC2 competition even though these games are very similar why would people follow them playing a game they're not used to nor good at?
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On August 24 2012 04:40 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote:On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote:
It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that. No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship? If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now. Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe. I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years.
It's such a good system they got set up.
I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
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EPT
