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On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game.
Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams
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Canada11577 Posts
Does this affect how you watch the GSL at all?
Yes it does. I hardly watch Korean SC2 these days and so if I do, it will definitely be to watch my KESPA favourites.
In addition, I don't know if this is actually the case, but the OSL seems to play at more reasonable times for Pacific timezone than GOM. Back when it was scv-marine rushing all-ins, it was reasonable to watch it live, but now it ends like 5 or 6 in the morning. Can't work after several nights of that.
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On August 24 2012 03:31 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:20 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 02:47 mycro wrote:On August 24 2012 02:47 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 02:43 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 02:41 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 02:33 Xiphos wrote:
As soon as OGN purchases Artosis + Tasteless combo for their international fanbase, I think that would be the end for GOM TV. So they should get on that asap. And you benefit from GOM dying how? You don't want to know. Yes, I do. Me, aswell. Hey you asked for it. Well OSL is filled with my favorite guys, namely JangBi + BaBy And GOM TV have the top tier English commentating that OSL can't offer. Place those two component into one entity and I'll be one happy panda. And the only way to do that is for OGN to get those two on board. In the same process, GSL would probably die off due to my guilty pleasure. I will be surely guilty for the 'catastrophic' event on GOM's part, yes. But momentarily, I will also be pleased. And as Patrick Bateman once said: "...it's impossible in this world we live in to empathize with others, we can always empathize with ourselves." The mistake here is in thinking Tastosis still actually does anything for GOM. Anyway, for someone who partly blames the death of BW on Tastosis you seem to really want them to be with OGN.
Now I realized that the industry is being stained with monetary gains and such with only a little bit of trust left and a whole lot of backstabbing with players/teams going on. Only thing I can hope is for more dramas to keep up the excitement.
On August 24 2012 03:31 mycro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:20 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 02:47 mycro wrote:On August 24 2012 02:47 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 02:43 Xiphos wrote:On August 24 2012 02:41 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 02:33 Xiphos wrote:
As soon as OGN purchases Artosis + Tasteless combo for their international fanbase, I think that would be the end for GOM TV. So they should get on that asap. And you benefit from GOM dying how? You don't want to know. Yes, I do. Me, aswell. Hey you asked for it. Well OSL is filled with my favorite guys, namely JangBi + BaBy And GOM TV have the top tier English commentating that OSL can't offer. Place those two component into one entity and I'll be one happy panda. And the only way to do that is for OGN to get those two on board. In the same process, GSL would probably die off due to my guilty pleasure. I will be surely guilty for the 'catastrophic' event on GOM's part, yes. But momentarily, I will also be pleased. And as Patrick Bateman once said: "...it's impossible in this world we live in to empathize with others, we can always empathize with ourselves." You don't believe competition is healthier in the long run?
I do, I really do. But for the sake of urgent pleasure, I want it fast and I want it now.
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In times like these, it would be so useful to have a players association like in every other sports. The players can't just let their superiors decide where they go,where do they compete, what do they eat, what are the living conditions and their salaries without having something to say.
Add big names like Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Stork and some legends like Nada or Boxer as leaders of this association, you have a pretty big negociating power. Kespa (Which essentially is a association of the big corporations with SK Telecom as the leader, because Seo Jin-woo is the president) would have no choice to listen what they have to say, because without players, you can't have games and exposure, and consequently, money. In the end, it's all about the players, and i can't believe they still don't have a association that would protect them.
+ Show Spoiler +Boxer and savior interviewIf you look near the end of the joint interview, you can see boxer suggesting savior to help create a players association.. and we all knows what happened after (But it's irrelevant for today's discussion)
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On August 24 2012 03:44 robopork wrote:
Wow.
Does anyone seriously have the right to be butthurt by this? Unless I missed something and kespa is backing out of a prior agreement, it sounds to me like gom is just whining because they don't want to wait another season to get that kespa viewership $$. Protecting the brand of their teams and players matters, and waiting until more than a couple players would have better than okay results is just good business. Dumping their reputation in the shitter wouldn't just be bad for them, it'd be bad for everyone. Remember, these teams are loaded; more money in the industry is good, right? In order to keep bringing in that money they need good results, right? Right. They're still practicing bw ffs.
But wait, I forgot that we just beat our chests around here for the fun of it. Sorry, carry on. o.O
I agree here. It serves the GSL well if the joining kespa players are actually on par or at least comprehendible to the skill of GSL players. Which they arent yet, but as some talented players progress rather fast it may be a good idea if they join in next season.
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On August 24 2012 03:32 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote:
What really makes me laugh is somehow they are above getting their asses whooped. Do you hear foreigners complaining about playing GOM and/or Code S players? We lose and lose but we just take it.
Now Kespa plays these games with SC2 community because they don't want their little players getting hurt, lulz. "What if Flash is beaten by MVP then the jig is up! Oh my!"
If they are so scared have them face US then they will easily win right? ;-)
If a foreigner wins even one match in GSL, it's a huge victory for them, "look, foreigners can compete with Koreans too!". If Flash DOESN'T win in GSL, it's a slap in every KeSPA's team face, because even though they are new to SC2, they are veterans of the scene, and have a name and a brand to uphold. It's not at all the same.
On a related subject, how often do you see foreigners attempting to qualify for GSL? Right, almost never. Heck, there's been plenty of foreigners turning down U/D and even Code S seeds, and there never was much of a whine about that. Stop making up arguments out of thin air, really.
As for Blizzard 'owning' the rights to broadcasting SC2 yaddayadda, that's a terrible thing to assume. The only reason they run the servers is because THEY wanted to do so due to their worries about piracy - e-sports has nothing to do with that. Nor do they have any rights to the games played / shown by people playing Starcraft. As far as I'm aware, they're literally the only company that insists on having a cut from tournaments and broadcasting, and it's really stupid - if they were so interested in furthering e-sports, they have all the time and resources in the world to do it, the way Valve and Riot Games manage. But nah, Blizzard prefers to have others do all the work while they just collect the paychecks.
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On August 24 2012 03:50 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:44 robopork wrote:
Wow.
Does anyone seriously have the right to be butthurt by this? Unless I missed something and kespa is backing out of a prior agreement, it sounds to me like gom is just whining because they don't want to wait another season to get that kespa viewership $$. Protecting the brand of their teams and players matters, and waiting until more than a couple players would have better than okay results is just good business. Dumping their reputation in the shitter wouldn't just be bad for them, it'd be bad for everyone. Remember, these teams are loaded; more money in the industry is good, right? In order to keep bringing in that money they need good results, right? Right. They're still practicing bw ffs.
But wait, I forgot that we just beat our chests around here for the fun of it. Sorry, carry on. o.O I agree here. It serves the GSL well if the joining kespa players are actually on par or at least comprehendible to the skill of GSL players. Which they arent yet, but as some talented players progress rather fast it may be a good idea if they join in next season.
Then why they have GSL player in OSL? You can't have it both ways.
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whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa or gom's approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros.
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Why would it be expected for Flash to win GSL? He didn't even win last OSL. Would it then be such a suprise if he wasn't to win GSL?
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On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros.
Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car.
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On August 24 2012 03:48 Falling wrote:Yes it does. I hardly watch Korean SC2 these days and so if I do, it will definitely be to watch my KESPA favourites. In addition, I don't know if this is actually the case, but the OSL seems to play at more reasonable times for Pacific timezone than GOM. Back when it was scv-marine rushing all-ins, it was reasonable to watch it live, but now it ends like 5 or 6 in the morning. Can't work after several nights of that.
Why don't you watch Korean SC2 anymore? It's kind of the best players and whatnot... There's VODs if you can't watch it live. I pretty much exclusively watch Korean players because they're better. I only have a few favorite foreigners that I watch for, but other than that, my true interest lies in the Korean scene. I'm interested to know how somebody could feel otherwise.
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On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams
Just a problem - the skill sets are super different.
Jangbi is amazing at BW - he will most likely be amazing at SC2. The skill set required for LoL is a LOT different. Sure, there'd be an initial draw when people are excited to see Bisu play some LoL. After they struggle for a few months compared to actual LoL pros, no one is going to care / they won't be making as much as their salaries require. A lot of them would probably quit retire as a KeSPA pro and join a GOM team where they could make more playing SC2.
So KeSPA can't really drop SC2 without facing big repercussions.
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On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa or gom's approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros.
There's the fed no? e-sports federation which is a association of the original sc2 teams. I think they made internally the decision that sc2 players will go compete in the osl or something like that, but what do I know, i don't have any sources.
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On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car.
you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players.
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On August 24 2012 03:58 Moka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa or gom's approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. There's the fed no? e-sports federation which is a association of the original sc2 teams
i meant at the level of kespa. sponsors (samsung, cj, etc.) -> kespa -> teams meanwhile the sc2 federation is not set up like that afaik, they're just a group of sc2 teams.
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On August 24 2012 03:38 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:32 Odoakar wrote:On August 24 2012 03:22 jinorazi wrote:
patience people! they been playing only a few months now and hybrid league is still going on with whos going to the playoff being a very close race.
if i was kespa i would probably do the same for the sake of sponsors wanting their players do well. what we saw at wcs was only a handful and only a few got through meanwhile shitload of kespa players didnt make it or try.
kespa players are simply not at the top of their level.
however, i personally would hold a meeting and see how the players feel and see how many would like to enter and whatnot but thats questioning the system and that seems unproductive so there is no need.
be patient, it will come. as for osl, osl is the home of kespa individual league and "gom players" are not tied to gom in any way like kespa and bw pros.
i root for kespa players and it would suck so much if 40 kespa players entered gsl qualifiers and only 5 got through, if that.
and i still dont like gom for not taking care of koreans outside of korea after 2 years. unlike majority here, i stopped watching gsl and whole sc2 streams because of english commentary and started watching sc2 again thanks to ogn's korean commentary. So then why give 8 OSL spots to gsl players? Before I was hoping that both bw and sc2 players advance to ro8, to keep bw viewers watching, but now I just hope gsl players stomp every one of bw players and only them advance to the next round. thats just unneeded hate  i'm not sure if kespa has control over ogn, ogn has the right to invite gsl players, no? "gom players" getting top 4 spots in osl is a genuine concern of mine though 
If you think that's hate what do you think of all the BW fanboys talking about how "i hope gom dies out i hope kespa players beat sc2 players" etc...? and yeah I would love for every kespa player to get knocked out in the first round of their own tournament, maybe that will teach kespa and the fanatical BW fanboys something about humility and not being dicks.
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Of course they might not be quite ready yet for the top level but that is a really sad decision from Kespa to not even let them try. This is really a huge disservice to all their players.
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On August 24 2012 04:00 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:38 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:32 Odoakar wrote:On August 24 2012 03:22 jinorazi wrote:
patience people! they been playing only a few months now and hybrid league is still going on with whos going to the playoff being a very close race.
if i was kespa i would probably do the same for the sake of sponsors wanting their players do well. what we saw at wcs was only a handful and only a few got through meanwhile shitload of kespa players didnt make it or try.
kespa players are simply not at the top of their level.
however, i personally would hold a meeting and see how the players feel and see how many would like to enter and whatnot but thats questioning the system and that seems unproductive so there is no need.
be patient, it will come. as for osl, osl is the home of kespa individual league and "gom players" are not tied to gom in any way like kespa and bw pros.
i root for kespa players and it would suck so much if 40 kespa players entered gsl qualifiers and only 5 got through, if that.
and i still dont like gom for not taking care of koreans outside of korea after 2 years. unlike majority here, i stopped watching gsl and whole sc2 streams because of english commentary and started watching sc2 again thanks to ogn's korean commentary. So then why give 8 OSL spots to gsl players? Before I was hoping that both bw and sc2 players advance to ro8, to keep bw viewers watching, but now I just hope gsl players stomp every one of bw players and only them advance to the next round. thats just unneeded hate i'm not sure if kespa has control over ogn, ogn has the right to invite gsl players, no? "gom players" getting top 4 spots in osl is a genuine concern of mine though If you think that's hate what do you think of all the BW fanboys talking about how "i hope gom dies out i hope kespa players beat sc2 players" etc...? and yeah I would love for every kespa player to get knocked out in the first round of their own tournament, maybe that will teach kespa and the fanatical BW fanboys something about humility and not being dicks.
there are baddies on both sides, no need to generalize everything and everyone. fun rivalry is all good.
i just said that because he said he would root for both sides then changed his mind and wants kespa to fail.
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On August 24 2012 03:59 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:58 Moka wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa or gom's approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. There's the fed no? e-sports federation which is a association of the original sc2 teams i meant at the level of kespa.
Well I think the fed will never be the same level of kespa unless all their teams gets big sponsors or get corporations to own them, and then make a association of all these big corporations. Only LG-IM and Startale have managed to get big sponsors. But the difference is that LG or Redbull don't really own the teams, unlike SK Telecom, KT, etc.
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On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players.
How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go".
On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"?
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EPT
