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Well that's unfortunate, I think the addition of the Kespa players would have given me the boost in interest necessary to start following GSL closely again.
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On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"?
you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. i dont agree with kespa system, wish they were little bit more democratic and allow those who want to compete, compete but it is what it is. i just wanted to clear the misconception that ogn is kespa.
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On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go".
Making up stuff at its best
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Aww, was looking forward to Flash owning up Code S 
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Hopefully we will get to see the KeSPA players in the GSL soon...
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On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl.
Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on".
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On August 24 2012 04:03 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:00 hunts wrote:On August 24 2012 03:38 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:32 Odoakar wrote:On August 24 2012 03:22 jinorazi wrote:
patience people! they been playing only a few months now and hybrid league is still going on with whos going to the playoff being a very close race.
if i was kespa i would probably do the same for the sake of sponsors wanting their players do well. what we saw at wcs was only a handful and only a few got through meanwhile shitload of kespa players didnt make it or try.
kespa players are simply not at the top of their level.
however, i personally would hold a meeting and see how the players feel and see how many would like to enter and whatnot but thats questioning the system and that seems unproductive so there is no need.
be patient, it will come. as for osl, osl is the home of kespa individual league and "gom players" are not tied to gom in any way like kespa and bw pros.
i root for kespa players and it would suck so much if 40 kespa players entered gsl qualifiers and only 5 got through, if that.
and i still dont like gom for not taking care of koreans outside of korea after 2 years. unlike majority here, i stopped watching gsl and whole sc2 streams because of english commentary and started watching sc2 again thanks to ogn's korean commentary. So then why give 8 OSL spots to gsl players? Before I was hoping that both bw and sc2 players advance to ro8, to keep bw viewers watching, but now I just hope gsl players stomp every one of bw players and only them advance to the next round. thats just unneeded hate  i'm not sure if kespa has control over ogn, ogn has the right to invite gsl players, no? "gom players" getting top 4 spots in osl is a genuine concern of mine though If you think that's hate what do you think of all the BW fanboys talking about how "i hope gom dies out i hope kespa players beat sc2 players" etc...? and yeah I would love for every kespa player to get knocked out in the first round of their own tournament, maybe that will teach kespa and the fanatical BW fanboys something about humility and not being dicks. there are baddies on both sides, no need to generalize everything and everyone. fun rivalry is all good. i just said that because he said he would root for both sides then changed his mind and wants kespa to fail.
I actually don't care about sides, I just want jaedong and either DRG or nestea in the finals. But after seeing this, and how a lot of people are acting with the whole "good let kespa kill off gom again" I do actually want kespa to completely crash and burn.
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I hope that Blizzard steps in and ensures that the Starcraft II scene is unified in Korea. The game has the best chance at being successful, in my opinion, if the best players compete together, rather than in having two different leagues with two different groups of players.
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On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on".
maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help.
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I would imagine that in the long run, this kind of decisions will just lead to the top players leaving Kespa in one way or another when their contracts are up. And that is not they way it should have to go.
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On August 24 2012 04:08 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". Making up stuff at its best
On August 23 2012 22:48 Weirdkid wrote:Translation from http://s.163.com/12/0823/20/89KD48V600314D0E.htmlKespa announced on the 23rd that they would not be taking part in GSL 2012 Season 4, but Kespa players and teams have expressed that they want to take part. Ever since Kespa started going into Starcraft 2, their players have had pretty good performances, especially in WCS. This had led the Kespa coaches and players to say that "WCS Korean Qualifiers is a big turning point." The performances of the Kespa players have been amazing in WCS Korea. There have been 64 games played between Kespa players and GSL players (as of 22nd), and out of the 64 games, the Kespa players have 36 wins and 28 losses, with a winning percentage of 56.25%, leading the GSL players.
"Being able to play against them in the tournament helped us to accelerate the pace at which we are catching up with them. It also gave us confidence. Winning in the tournament gives us confidence, and even if we lost, it gave us more experience, and that is helpful for us to catch up with them." Many players have expressed this, "Hoping to be able to play in the Code A tournament soon. We should be able to go ahead and play against the GSL players unconditionally, so we can gain more experience."
The coaching team shares the same thoughts. One of the coaches of a certain team which produced outstanding performances in WCS said, "Even though the performance at the lans isn't that good, but from the performance of the seeded players, the catching up of Kespa players is much faster than expected. If we are able to take part in the games in September, I think there should be at least 1-2 players from each team who can make Code A."GSL related personnel felt the same way too. A certain commentator from GSL predicted, "In the WCS Korean Qualifiers, there should be at least 2 of them who will go on to be the representatives for Korea." But the fact is, out of the 10 representative spots, 3 of them have been taken by Kespa players. This commentator noted, "The Kespa players won't be inferior if they were to go on GSL immediately. There is also a good chance there'd be some who'd make it to Code S. They have the basics of what it takes to be a pro-gamer. The only thing they lack is the in-game experience against other players." Nonetheless, the hopes of the Kespa players and teams have been dissipated by the association's obstruction. Addendum: There have been sources claiming that Gomtv had proposed really good deals for the Kespa players: 2 seeds straight to Code S, 2 seeds to Up and Downs, and 4 seeds to Code A. *End of translation* Edit: Either way, we'll see what happens tomorrow when Blizzard releases their statement 
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It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too.
They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that.
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On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on".
In what way are OGN and KeSPA married? OGN's biggest game is LoL, and they have to pay a yearly fee to cast KeSPA players. You are acting like KeSPA somehow owns OGN and controls them, but I don't see that connection at all.
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Canada11360 Posts
On August 24 2012 03:55 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:48 Falling wrote: Does this affect how you watch the GSL at all? Yes it does. I hardly watch Korean SC2 these days and so if I do, it will definitely be to watch my KESPA favourites. In addition, I don't know if this is actually the case, but the OSL seems to play at more reasonable times for Pacific timezone than GOM. Back when it was scv-marine rushing all-ins, it was reasonable to watch it live, but now it ends like 5 or 6 in the morning. Can't work after several nights of that. Why don't you watch Korean SC2 anymore? It's kind of the best players and whatnot... There's VODs if you can't watch it live. I pretty much exclusively watch Korean players because they're better. I only have a few favorite foreigners that I watch for, but other than that, my true interest lies in the Korean scene. I'm interested to know how somebody could feel otherwise.
I'll catch MLG on occasion as it is at a reasonable time, but for GOM you can only watch the first match for free on VODs. Or have they changed that? I just don't watch that much SC2 anymore. So if I am going to watch SC2, it will be for Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, Jangbi, etc.
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They'll still play against the Gom guys in the OSL. That's good enough for me.
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On August 24 2012 03:48 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 03:45 Sutekhy wrote:
Blizzard shuts down streaming rights for Kespa on SC2 and BW, then what happens? Kespa goes to another game? No, they're done. the players go off on their own and join GSL anyways. That's the implications that blizzard has in this stance, that's why they have much say. Because Kespa is all but useless in this situation, there's already a global tournament that takes place that the world views as the top standard of play for the game. Umm no. KeSPA would then move to LoL and players would too because of money. Why would they leave KeSPA when they get proper salaries unlike some sc2 teams
haha not a chance buddy. If you think for half a second the players wouldn't just continue pursuing what they've been doing to completely switch a game around because kespa was no more, you're insane.
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/r/starcraft is getting pretty ridiculous over this, calling for entire boycotts over KeSPA-related productions and what not. Seeing how lackluster the foreign viewer count for recent broadcasts of the hybrid Proleague and SC2 OSL have been, this is snowballing way out of control to a point that will hurt the scene as a whole.
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On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help.
OGN can not make any decision that KeSPA doesn't agree with, because KeSPA hold the rights of all KeSPA sanctioned events, including broadcast rights, teams, and players, not to mention that OGN is part of KeSPA board. They are like the IOC and OGN is like the Olympics hosting country (BTW, KeSPA is affiliated with Korean Olympic Committee). Any decision OGN make is by default agreed upon by KeSPA.
2007년 1월 협회는 스타크래프트 프로리그에 중계권 개념을 도입해 중계권을 구입한 방송사에서만 리그를 중계할 수 있도록 하고, 중계 사업을 할 사업자를 공모하겠다고 발표했다. 기존에는 방송사들이 기업의 후원을 받아 방송을 제작했었고, 협회는 산업적 기반을 만들어나가기 위한 것이라 주장했다. 이에 기존에 리그를 방송하던 방송사들은 일방적인 중계 사업자 선정 사업에 유감을 표시했다. 협회는 같은 달 31일 홀로 입찰에 참가한 IEG가 중계 사업자로 선정되었다고 밝혔다. IEG는 기존에 리그를 방송하던 온게임넷과 MBC게임을 상대로 중계권 협상을 벌였고, 두 차례의 결렬 이후 3월 20일 양 방송사의 3년간 중계권을 인정하며 타결되었다. 이 과정에서 리그가 파행 운영되어 팬들의 반발을 사기도 했다.
On August 24 2012 04:20 cujo2k wrote:
In what way are OGN and KeSPA married? OGN's biggest game is LoL, and they have to pay a yearly fee to cast KeSPA players. You are acting like KeSPA somehow owns OGN and controls them, but I don't see that connection at all.
You realize that KeSPA owns LoL broadcast rights in Korea also right?
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On August 24 2012 04:13 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 04:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 04:05 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:58 jinorazi wrote:On August 24 2012 03:54 ragz_gt wrote:On August 24 2012 03:51 jinorazi wrote:
whats the relationship with ogn and kespa? i'm not 100% how they're tied and what kind of partnership they have but people seem to think they're the same.
gom players in osl is not the same as kespa players in gsl.
gsl is gom's league, osl is ogn's league, "gom players" have no players association, kespa is bw pro's association.
ogn does not need kespa approval on who they can invite from gsl but gsl needs kespa's approval to invite bw pros. Technically OSL don't need ask KeSPA's permission, but they are in the same bed already. Like you technically don't need your wife's permission to buy a sports car. you're making a connection where none seem to exist. you're saying why can't gsl have kespa players since osl have gsl players and blame kespa for it when they have no control over it, nor do they need to repay the "favor" by allowing gsl to have kespa players. How is KeSPA have no control over it? Gom want players, players want go, coach want players to go, only KeSPA is saying "nope, you can't go". On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Which part of that line says to you "KeSPA have no control"? you miss understood me. i said kespa has no control over who ogn invites to osl and kespa is not obligated to return the favor by allowing kespa players to compete in gsl. Saying KeSPA have no control over who OGN invites is three layers beyond dumb. It's like saying "my wife have no control over what I spend money on". maybe you can explain their relationship to me, as i've said i dont know what kind of relationship they have. so please do explain how they're tied and how kespa is obligated to act on behalf of ogn by giving gsl their players. your wife analogy doesn't help.
OGN is sitting at the Kespa board, theirfore infuincing their decisions. OGN owns the broadcasting rights to OSL, Kespa claimed the rights to Proleague a few years ago and then sold them to a third party. Kespa "owns" all BW players.
Kespa needs OGN to broadcast the OSL/Proleague. Kespa players needs Kespa's persmission to participate in the OSL/Proleague. Technically OGN could broadcast SC2 without Kespa involvement, but then they would wave goodbye to Flash etc. In practice, Kespa and OGN is in the same boat for now.
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On August 24 2012 04:25 eviltomahawk wrote:
/r/starcraft is getting pretty ridiculous over this, calling for entire boycotts over KeSPA-related productions and what not. Seeing how the foreign viewer count for recent broadcasts of the hybrid Proleague and SC2 OSL have been, this is snowballing way out of control to a point that will hurt the scene as a whole.
I don't really understand it myself. If everyone boycotts OGN, then we are only hurting OGN and possibly even ourselves if they decide to pull the english casters due to low international viewership, and KeSPA won't even bat an eye since their sponsors don't care about the international market -- only the Korean one where they do business in.
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EPT
