On August 23 2012 23:06 nokz88 wrote: Somehow, someway KeSPA gets more support and less flak in TeamLiquid, a foreign forum, than in Korea itself. Go figure.
It doesn't get shadier than this folks. Why are some of you defending this asshole move?
What's the reaction in the Korean community about this?
As of now:
PlayXP(pro-Gom forums): First 15 posts about the issue - 14 negative / 1 neutral Fomos(pro-KeSPA forums): First 10 posts - 8 negative / 2 neutral Pgr: 7 posts - 6 negative / 1 positive
Seems like in Korea even KeSPA fanboys recognize an asshole move when they see it. Please do the same will ya?
Fomos is rather pro-BW
Pretty much no one in korea ever likes kespa
Also pgr21 has exploded with major uproar
Wouldn't it be something if the korean esports fans throw a shitstorm similar to our reddit ones, where the major kespa companies start getting mass complaints and losing mass customers because of kespas shenanigans? I would cry tears of joy.
Eddit: Not that shit storms are good, most of the ones and witch hunts have just been awful for the community, but something that hurts an organization like KESPA and shows them that they don't have the power, the people do, I think would be an amazing thing.
The truth is, even foreign community throwing a shitstorm might do good. While their telecom companies might not care about foreign audience, a company like Samsung probably does.
On August 23 2012 22:34 MVTaylor wrote: Pathetic, I'm not paying OSL or any league related to KESPA a penny until they change their stance. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if Blizzard black listed the OSL tournament and every KESPA pro gaming house until they change their mind. Finally something useful about bnet 0.2
Lucky for you, OGN have always got their money from advertisements and sponsorships, creating sustainable leagues that are free to watch...
On August 23 2012 22:34 MVTaylor wrote: Pathetic, I'm not paying OSL or any league related to KESPA a penny until they change their stance. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if Blizzard black listed the OSL tournament and every KESPA pro gaming house until they change their mind. Finally something useful about bnet 0.2
Lucky for you, OGN have always got their money from advertisements and sponsorships, creating sustainable leagues that are free to watch...
This is correct. I never paid a penny to watch BW, and I got all the games live and VODs now are readily available soon after.
On August 23 2012 22:34 MVTaylor wrote: Pathetic, I'm not paying OSL or any league related to KESPA a penny until they change their stance. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if Blizzard black listed the OSL tournament and every KESPA pro gaming house until they change their mind. Finally something useful about bnet 0.2
Lucky for you, OGN have always got their money from advertisements and sponsorships, creating sustainable leagues that are free to watch...
This is correct. I never paid a penny to watch BW, and I got all the games live and VODs now are readily available soon after.
different times, just look at sc2 sale policy and how much nowadays-blizzard limits its own growth/popularity for the extra $$$
On August 24 2012 04:19 Zandar wrote: It's time the foreign scene organises a Kespa boycot.
They were the dictator of Broodwar, don't let them become that in SC2 too. They need to learn it's not just about them anymore.
I love watching Jaedong but I won't anymore until he either leaves Kespa or Kespa starts to behave in the best interest of SC2 and the players, instead of purely focus on what's best for Kespa. I can't be a fan of them or their players when they are like that.
No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship?
If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now.
Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
Because of Blizzard's intervention.
Mike M said "Well yeah we thanks Brood War and Kespa for their pioneering in the esport world but now it is time to switch to StarCraft 2."
just forget the fact that they didnt find any sponsors ..like at ALL
On August 24 2012 05:57 Fleuria wrote: Its the biggest retard move by kespa, when pretty much all there players stated a desire to play, roro was especially annoyed in his iview
hopefully blizzard intervene and let the kespa players play.
wouldn't actually surprise me if it was down to the fact gom wouldn't seed some players into code s or switch the format up to match osl or something, as 1 season code A is kinda meh when some of them are easily code S ro/16/32 quality.
GOM supposedly offered two Code S seeds, two up-n-down seeds, and four Code A seeds. Kespa just doesn't want GOM to survive longterm and denying the Kespa v. GOM storyline is one way to start doing that.
Agreed, and those are 8 seats for Kespa players that are given. Kespa wants to control SC2. Though I doubt that Blizzard will allow them to be top dog like they were in BW.
On August 24 2012 05:57 Fleuria wrote: Its the biggest retard move by kespa, when pretty much all there players stated a desire to play, roro was especially annoyed in his iview
hopefully blizzard intervene and let the kespa players play.
wouldn't actually surprise me if it was down to the fact gom wouldn't seed some players into code s or switch the format up to match osl or something, as 1 season code A is kinda meh when some of them are easily code S ro/16/32 quality.
While I wish they would get along. It was not a "retard" move. They know that short of Blizzard telling them they cannot hold tournaments anymore (which they might choose to ignore anyways), they will have the program that can kill GOM and control the market in Korea perhaps even the world. They will have the best players and their teams are already stable with compared to GOM teams. Also imagine if they tell MLG to host events during the times that IPL or Dreamhack are going on and only give the KESPA players to MLG. The event without KESPA players will suffer huge losses in viewership and then cease to exist. KESPA is smart, not "retarded."
On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote: [quote] No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship?
If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now.
Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
Because of Blizzard's intervention.
Mike M said "Well yeah we thanks Brood War and Kespa for their pioneering in the esport world but now it is time to switch to StarCraft 2."
just forget the fact that they didnt find any sponsors ..like at ALL
Part because of match-fixing, part because of Blizzard's IP Lawsuits.
On August 23 2012 23:06 nokz88 wrote: Somehow, someway KeSPA gets more support and less flak in TeamLiquid, a foreign forum, than in Korea itself. Go figure.
It doesn't get shadier than this folks. Why are some of you defending this asshole move?
What's the reaction in the Korean community about this?
As of now:
PlayXP(pro-Gom forums): First 15 posts about the issue - 14 negative / 1 neutral Fomos(pro-KeSPA forums): First 10 posts - 8 negative / 2 neutral Pgr: 7 posts - 6 negative / 1 positive
Seems like in Korea even KeSPA fanboys recognize an asshole move when they see it. Please do the same will ya?
Fomos is rather pro-BW
Pretty much no one in korea ever likes kespa
Also pgr21 has exploded with major uproar
Wouldn't it be something if the korean esports fans throw a shitstorm similar to our reddit ones, where the major kespa companies start getting mass complaints and losing mass customers because of kespas shenanigans? I would cry tears of joy.
Eddit: Not that shit storms are good, most of the ones and witch hunts have just been awful for the community, but something that hurts an organization like KESPA and shows them that they don't have the power, the people do, I think would be an amazing thing.
The truth is, even foreign community throwing a shitstorm might do good. While their telecom companies might not care about foreign audience, a company like Samsung probably does.
On August 24 2012 04:29 oBlade wrote: [quote] No. What is the "best interest of SC2?" This is just some nebulous idea you conjured up to sound righteous. By best interest of SC2, do you mean lining Blizzard's pockets with cash? Or do you mean a sustainable e-sports scene based around the Starcraft franchise, which KeSPA has built up over 12 years leading to very respectable salaries via team sponsorship?
If they don't want to come to this GSL, big fucking deal? You can see them in other leagues for now.
Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
Because of Blizzard's intervention.
Mike M said "Well yeah we thanks Brood War and Kespa for their pioneering in the esport world but now it is time to switch to StarCraft 2."
just forget the fact that they didnt find any sponsors ..like at ALL
Fun fact: Blizzard themselves were sponsoring the GOMTV Classic, which KeSPA killed. That was Blizzard's stated causus belli for starting the lawsuits, I think. It's entirely possible that BW might still be alive today if KeSPA hadn't picked that fight.
On August 24 2012 04:37 Condor Hero wrote: [quote] Not like a boycott will change anything... The foreign scene hasn't ever given anything of substance to Kespa so what's a boycott gonna do. Why would KT or SKT ever consider sending Flash or Bisu aboard unless they had to? That's like asking the NFL to advertise in China or Europe.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
Because of Blizzard's intervention.
Mike M said "Well yeah we thanks Brood War and Kespa for their pioneering in the esport world but now it is time to switch to StarCraft 2."
just forget the fact that they didnt find any sponsors ..like at ALL
Part because of match-fixing, part because of Blizzard's IP Lawsuits.
And part because of the diversification in gaming preference in PC Bangs. And part because K-pop. And part because flash won too much and killed leagues.
I wonder if the companies that only operate in korea will drop the teams eventually? It seems like SC2 will never be as big as BW in korea and good will/commercial interest lies mostly with international brands and companies.
I doubt they will drop teams completely in the next few years. It's such a good system they got set up. I bet they might switch to LoL if SC2 really fails or some other game but I feel like they will at least try that before disbanding all the infrastructure.
Or they can just switch back to Brood War as Brood War servers can be hosted by other means than B.net.
I'm sure that many players still prefer that game.
How stupid would KeSPA look for going back to a game they've pronounced as "the past" though? BW was dying in Korea before OGN/KeSPA were involved with SC2, the business was not sustainable and they couldn't find sponsors for their teams and tournaments. I can't imagine it's going to be doing any better than it was before if they tried switching back to BW.
No, BW have many more viewers than SC2 in Korea. Last season's PL stadium was always filled to the max while this season, there are many empty seats. And the OSL have always been packed. Comparing to what Gom is getting, OGN have gotten way more viewers. And the Chinese have had 10 million views on the stream for the Jin Air OSL finals.
Then why is KeSPA/OGN switching from Brood War in the first place?
Because of Blizzard's intervention.
Mike M said "Well yeah we thanks Brood War and Kespa for their pioneering in the esport world but now it is time to switch to StarCraft 2."
just forget the fact that they didnt find any sponsors ..like at ALL
Part because of match-fixing, part because of Blizzard's IP Lawsuits.
And part because of the diversification in gaming preference in PC Bangs. And part because K-pop. And part because flash won too much and killed leagues.
I actually have a theory that says that it is no coincidence that BW declined as K-Pop rose to prominence in 2008.
On August 24 2012 05:57 Fleuria wrote: Its the biggest retard move by kespa, when pretty much all there players stated a desire to play, roro was especially annoyed in his iview
hopefully blizzard intervene and let the kespa players play.
wouldn't actually surprise me if it was down to the fact gom wouldn't seed some players into code s or switch the format up to match osl or something, as 1 season code A is kinda meh when some of them are easily code S ro/16/32 quality.
While I wish they would get along. It was not a "retard" move. They know that short of Blizzard telling them they cannot hold tournaments anymore (which they might choose to ignore anyways), they will have the program that can kill GOM and control the market in Korea perhaps even the world. They will have the best players and their teams are already stable with compared to GOM teams. Also imagine if they tell MLG to host events during the times that IPL or Dreamhack are going on and only give the KESPA players to MLG. The event without KESPA players will suffer huge losses in viewership and then cease to exist. KESPA is smart, not "retarded."
It's a retarded move because almost all of the fans of SC2 that weren't into BW dislike kespa and stuff like this doesn't help. They won't control everything like they used to. The foreign community is larger than korea and people over here go wild when they dislike something, just look at all the relatively small stuff that made the community upset.
On August 24 2012 06:14 Arkio wrote: Blizzard IP lawsuit, what happened there?
Blizzard backed the fuck down lol. Really in the end who can say who should have won the law suit. Basically arguing over the right to hold tournaments, and the IP because of it (replays and streaming it and tv).
They make the game, but KESPA did make the BW esports scene. They also are the ones who held the tournaments and paid the players. Perhaps Blizzard should get a fee for allowing their game in an event, but I think the tournament organizers should have the given right for all content produced for and from that event. Maps VODS Interviews ect.
On August 24 2012 06:14 Arkio wrote: Blizzard IP lawsuit, what happened there?
Like most reasonable lawsuits, it settled. However, it was pretty evident that both parties feel that Blizzard would have won if it went to trial. It was an unwinnable argument for KeSPA, claiming that the IP rights to Starcraft were public domain.
On August 24 2012 05:57 Fleuria wrote: Its the biggest retard move by kespa, when pretty much all there players stated a desire to play, roro was especially annoyed in his iview
hopefully blizzard intervene and let the kespa players play.
wouldn't actually surprise me if it was down to the fact gom wouldn't seed some players into code s or switch the format up to match osl or something, as 1 season code A is kinda meh when some of them are easily code S ro/16/32 quality.
While I wish they would get along. It was not a "retard" move. They know that short of Blizzard telling them they cannot hold tournaments anymore (which they might choose to ignore anyways), they will have the program that can kill GOM and control the market in Korea perhaps even the world. They will have the best players and their teams are already stable with compared to GOM teams. Also imagine if they tell MLG to host events during the times that IPL or Dreamhack are going on and only give the KESPA players to MLG. The event without KESPA players will suffer huge losses in viewership and then cease to exist. KESPA is smart, not "retarded."
It's a retarded move because almost all of the fans of SC2 that weren't into BW dislike kespa and stuff like this doesn't help. They won't control everything like they used to, just look at how the community fucks over anyone they don't like.
Sorry, but with a few lessons from the GOM players, the KESPA players will show their personality more. With that they will again have the best players, because they have the most money, and probably already have the better talent pool (personal opinion there). The community if given access to KESPA players like they have been given access to GOM players and KESPA adds an English stream, and buys out Tastosis (which they can afford), who stops them from having control? They will easily have the best matches, and how are you going to fuck them over? By watching inferior SC2? I see a battle coming though it won't be as easy as before, but I think KESPA will win.
On August 24 2012 06:14 Arkio wrote: Blizzard IP lawsuit, what happened there?
KeSPA shut down the GOMTV Classic (a BW league with English casting) by pressuring teams to drop out. Blizzard then sued for control of the BW scene, basically. They wanted
A. The Blizzard logo on stuff B. A license fee to have BW tournaments (this is the part that was controversial) C. To be able to audit KeSPA's finances.
They got the logos, but that was it.
At the time, a lot of people thought Blizz was trying to kill BW to make room for SC2.
GOM, on the other hand, was doing their tournaments with Blizzard's endorsements, and making some efforts to expand the foreign BW scene with foreign BW tournaments and english casting. This is why Blizzard gave GOM the rights to SC2 originally: they were trying to grow "e-sports" while KeSPA was trying to shrink it.
EPT
