EPTWhen I die to a strong build,
it becomes my build.
Why you shouldnt be playing random on ladder. - Page 19
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Trozz
Canada3456 Posts
When I die to a strong build, it becomes my build. | ||
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
Duh. | ||
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Misacampo
167 Posts
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Supercilium
Sweden308 Posts
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Catatafish
75 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:33 rd wrote: It's a fact in starcraft, get over it. Threre are a ton of openings in normal builds that take risks and can become a disadvantage - which is why people don't open them and aren't very diverse in their opening. There are a ton of builds you can open vs random. You're just limited on how greedy you can be. XvR isn't the only match-up with this restriction, and it varies by map. Also, 9 scout is optimal for the random match-up. We just went through this just two posts ago. Stop comparing XvR to XvX. Different match-ups. Different openings. Different forms of what may be defined as optimal. Is it optimal to know what race you're playing against 30 seconds sooner? yes. Nothing dictates protoss has to go gateway first, and you insinuate it's a bad sub-optimal build. Go back and read the previous posts on it. If the best players in the world can pull it off at the highest of levels, <gm players can pull it off vs random players who are statistically worse at ZvP than their protoss opponent. edit: i'm not going to argue on day9's behalf Lol okay. 14 years is irrelevant because you came out of the woodworks to bitch about it and think you're important enough to see Starcraft's legacy morphed to what you dictate is fun for you. Get over yourself. If it wasn't removed after being in Starcraft for 14 years, it doesn't state any precedence on how widely accepted random as a race is? Or are you willfully choosing to be ignorant? I really don't understand what you're getting upset about. It's been there for 14 years, I don't like it, I'm arguing why, what's the problem? Because it is widely accepted I can't be allowed to disagree with it? I'm not bitching, I don't need to get over anything and I'm not willfully ignorant. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:45 Catatafish wrote: I really don't understand what you're getting upset about. It's been there for 14 years, I don't like it, I'm arguing why, what's the problem? Because it is widely accepted I can't be allowed to disagree with it? I'm not bitching, I don't need to get over anything and I'm not willfully ignorant. You're wasting my time. You ask why random should have it's race hidden. I tell you among several reasons it's been that way since SC1; 14 years. You then tell me 14 years is irrelevant, as if to presume the silent approval of it's existence was worth no merit in an argument for why it's actually fine the way it is, which it has been, surprisingly, for more than a dozen years. It reeks of arrogance and self-entitlement. | ||
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Catatafish
75 Posts
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Kajarn
United States126 Posts
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LavaLava
United States235 Posts
Random is the theoretically most powerful race option, stunted by human limitations to be the weakest. But don't think that RvX has to exactly follow standard gameplay from the other matchups. It is its own game much like TvZ is separate from PvP, only less so. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Ta-da, problem fixed :/ I don't get why this isn't implemented... By the way wouldn't it be cool to have a ladder account shared between 3 pros of different races? They'd play random, have 1 guy do the split and make workers at the start but during it they'd let the person who mains that race play as it etc. I'd be interested in how much higher an account like this could rank in comparison to a normal account played by 1 person | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 25 2012 15:41 Shikyo wrote: Blizzard should enable the possibility of open random(Show your race to the opponent at the start of the game) Ta-da, problem fixed :/ I don't get why this isn't implemented... By the way wouldn't it be cool to have a ladder account shared between 3 pros of different races? They'd play random, have 1 guy do the split and make workers at the start but during it they'd let the person who mains that race play as it etc. I'd be interested in how much higher an account like this could rank in comparison to a normal account played by 1 person i dont think it'll matter in ladder setting. if you've seen jaedong vs flash in b.net attack while using their off race, they were still pretty fcking good. i think its safe to assume most pros know how to use all race(maybe less so for sc2 since its younger) | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:39 Misacampo wrote: High masters random player. The only matchup that is different might be PvZ due to forge FE, but nowadays alot of people are gateway expanding anyways, so it doesn't even matter. Your points are invalid. You're a pretty bad "high masters" player, then. Gateway expand is getting more popular, yes, but there's absolutely nothing as safe and reliable as FFE. That's like taking gasless FE away from Terran. Furthermore, there are many other builds that are simply disallowed in such a situation: Nexus First, 3 Hatch before gas (hell, even Hatch first is forbidden because your opponent could 10pool you), and probably more that haven't come to mind. To make matters worse, what if it's a four-player map like Antiga and you scout your opponent last? You have to start directing your build at that point (how many gas, how many Nexus chronos, additional gates/tech/expand) without having ever scouted your opponent, even if you sent out a ~9scout. This is very rapidly approaching the point of the unreasonable. Random players, like yourself, simply aren't playing the same game as the rest of us. You're playing a coin-flippy game that poorly demonstrates skill. So I won't respect you until you start playing random properly: by rolling a die before queueing up each game to choose your race. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On August 25 2012 16:24 Acritter wrote: You're a pretty bad "high masters" player, then. Gateway expand is getting more popular, yes, but there's absolutely nothing as safe and reliable as FFE. That's like taking gasless FE away from Terran. Furthermore, there are many other builds that are simply disallowed in such a situation: Nexus First, 3 Hatch before gas (hell, even Hatch first is forbidden because your opponent could 10pool you), and probably more that haven't come to mind. To make matters worse, what if it's a four-player map like Antiga and you scout your opponent last? You have to start directing your build at that point (how many gas, how many Nexus chronos, additional gates/tech/expand) without having ever scouted your opponent, even if you sent out a ~9scout. This is very rapidly approaching the point of the unreasonable. Random players, like yourself, simply aren't playing the same game as the rest of us. You're playing a coin-flippy game that poorly demonstrates skill. So I won't respect you until you start playing random properly: by rolling a die before queueing up each game to choose your race. By your logic, 15 hatch isn't viable in ZvZ either because you might get 10 pooled... I won't respect you until you get your head out of your ass and stop complaining about random. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 25 2012 16:36 JDub wrote: By your logic, 15 hatch isn't viable in ZvZ either because you might get 10 pooled... I won't respect you until you get your head out of your ass and stop complaining about random. It's very different there, for one simple reason: it's a calculated risk. Those are okay to have now and again. But against random, there ARE no safe build orders. The extreme example is PvR on TDA, where you have to immediately choose between going for FFE (autoloss versus P and T), going for 1gate expand (autoloss versus P and Z, although if you get lucky and scout them early you MIGHT be able to transition), and going for 4gate (suboptimal versus T and Z, but it's still the best build available and thus the one I use in such a situation). There is no right answer. It's luck. Players can't fall back on a safe, strong build order that can handle over 90% of what the meta throws at it provided that they outplay their opponent. The lack of such builds is what makes random so bullshit. A superior player can't simply fall back on skill to win them games, like what Taeja does. They have to buy into the entire gambling bullshit too. That's just dumb. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Random forever. When I die to a strong build, it becomes my build. And may the zergs weep great tears, for their ZvZ is now mine as I lose! I take a second glance at the title because it seems to be saying, "5 Reasons why You Suck at Starcraft!" God, you missed a great chance at some clever satire! How the class of ladderers having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have (or is even healthy) are pelted at all sides by a cabal of sniveling whiners! But instead, you present such a worthy target to be made fun of instead! I have nothing against random, because I play random too, just not like picking random. Like I choose terran for 10 games in a row then switch, etc. But the reason why I disagree a ton with playing random is; Learning defections. Oh you disagree with it, do you? And then, from this disagreement you propose to lecture us on why us poor losers are handicapping our own learning development! Disagree, indeed! You, sir, see limitations on development but, no, you do not nor cannot know why every person picks random so your explanation of disagreement is laughable. I'll say this in another way for you TL;DR's out there - You will have disagreements with somebody that says, "I play random for I wish to learn all 3 races." Then you fall flat on your face arguing with the statement that was not brought up but you vigorously oppose. Go buy a cat because you disagree with a dog, for that makes about as much sense. And in conclusion, well ... what the rest of people in this thread have already said. Thank you. | ||
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BlueEagle
United Kingdom75 Posts
Random players, like yourself, simply aren't playing the same game as the rest of us. You're playing a coin-flippy game that poorly demonstrates skill. So I won't respect you until you start playing random properly: by rolling a die before queueing up each game to choose your race. I don't think having to obtain an item outside of what is provided is "playing the game properly". In fact, I think clicking the button marked "random" then playing according to the race the game has chosen is the proper way to play random. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
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XenoX101
Australia729 Posts
The main point here is that some people are okay with not playing the standard meta-game when it gives them a better or easier chance to win, and so want the advantage of choosing random, or the quick thrill of cheesing. So in ignoring this, the OP has implied that it isn't the 'right' way to play, which is really what people are unhappy about. But I don't think the OP is necessarily entirely to blame for thinking this, as in general the SC2 philosophy is to constantly try to improve and not resort to cheese or all-ins every game. Instead to me this shows that there needs to be a greater awareness, and sensitivity, to how people choose to play the game, and how much variety there is in your audience when writing threads on TL. That way we can avoid troublesome threads like these from reoccurring, and good points such as how random approaches the game through a different meta-game won't be obscured by a few unfortunate presumptions about the audience. | ||
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
This is why I agree with you. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
i am super confident in playing random and not like someone wanna tell me why i have to do something or why i dont | ||
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