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Poopi
France12906 Posts
On August 02 2012 01:52 Darneck wrote: Eh? How exactly is it proven when currently the korean WCG has 8 terrans, 5 protoss and 2 zergs qualified Korean WCG? The race representation in korean WCG is misleaded because there are KesPA players able to qualify despite being less good than the majority of the GSL players. Hard to judge anything with such high skill disparity. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:25 Snowbear wrote: In EU and NA you see protoss and zergs dominating. Why is this? Because if you take a terran and a zerg/protoss, then the terran has it much harder then the other player. Every terran that is not a progamer suffers from this. Even the EU and NA terrans suffer from this. The korean terrans are seriously gods, nothing more to say. I always wondered how mkp would look with z (splitting banelings instead of 1aing them in a ball, even nestea does this). Foreign zergs and protoss players better hope that HOTS doesn't make terran viable lategame... Mkp has streamed his Zerg pretty often, it's pretty mediocre. He lost on stream to Losira's Terran while playing it iirc. He is so much slower with Zerg than with Terran for some reason. And there are already a ton of Zergs (DRG, Symbol, Stephano, etc.) who already split banelings pretty well. It's just that splitting banelings is 50x worse than splitting marines, because then you're adding extra time for the banes to get to their desired targets which makes them more likely to die for nothing, in a lot of situations 1aing them is actually more beneficial than splitting them since they're melee. With that being said, Zerg can be really hard to play against (my vs. Z against GMs is like <30% at this point I think) but I'd rather them just not touch the balance until they're 100% certain it's necessary than to keep messing with stuff; I'd rather just play better than have the balance constantly being changed due to 1-2 bad tournaments for race X or Y. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 02 2012 01:53 Neurosis wrote: To be fair the only way anyone would have known he was such a beast before joining TL would have been if you watched the korean weekly or if you got a chance to catch his extremely rare stream. Korean weekly is totally worth watching for anyone that hasn't checked it out yet btw, Taeja basically made his name there. Yep. Korean weekly owns. Sadly, I think most casual spectators mostly focus on MLG/DH/NASL etc. You'd be lucky to get them to watch GSL :p. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 02 2012 02:02 -_- wrote: Before the Queen change, creep denial was a matter of form for Terran in the early game. You simply built Hellions and parked them overnight. And Zergs simply had to build a Roach Warren and make 3 Roaches to be able to creep spread and get a third early (as Nerchio and Stephano were doing, for instance)—but I guess consuming one drone, three larvae and some resources was torture for Zergs. On August 02 2012 02:02 -_- wrote: Now creep spread can get started early game, making it a factor in mid and late. Oh yes, a great success indeed; it allows you to stall while you're teching Broods or Ultras behind your 11 minuts Hive, because if the Terran player advances too quickly you simply a-move dozens of 6,11 movespeed Zerglings while happily spamming Fungals over his army, and you're sure to trade efficiently. Meanwhile, since your creep is everywhere on the map, the Terran player can't even land his fourth. Quite a factor indeed. On August 02 2012 02:02 -_- wrote: Regarding Ravens, when I think about how Terrans respond to the suggestion of them I can't help but think about how I used feel about the Carrier, Mothership, and Warp Prism. Now, the Warp Prism was buffed, and the Mothership was indirectly buffed (neural nerf), but back in 2010 and early 2011 I was convinced all 3 were pointless units. Now, I realize that even without the buffs they all could have been used. Maybe the Raven needs a little tweak, but I'm confident T's will begin using it. I don't blame them for thinking they can't, though. I was in the exact same spot. It's so funny how you people—who obviously don't play Terran—think that we do not use Ravens. Hell, I can even remember Beastyqt playing Ravens/Ghosts in lategame when Ghosts were still able to kill Zerglings in one Snipe. I see a lot of Terrans getting Ravens in lategame against Broodlords/Corruptors/Infestors/Queens. It doesn't help much, because Ravens are really an average caster. Besides, they're not very useful against Ultralisks. In short, it's absolutely pointless to expect some kind of Raven miracle to bring back balance to the TvZ. It does not solve the Broodlords/Corruptors/Infestors/Queens problem. Exactly how much time do Protoss and Terran players must endure this stupid “kill him before they got too much of them” situation ? | ||
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difused
Germany11 Posts
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On August 02 2012 02:06 Poopi wrote: Korean WCG? The race representation in korean WCG is misleaded because there are KesPA players able to qualify despite being less good than the majority of the GSL players. Hard to judge anything with such high skill disparity. Marineking qualified by beating Symbol, Keen by beating lucky, Hack by beating Seed then the other terrans all beat Kespa players in the last round and one of them being a Kespa player himself. Edit: The Kespa Terran that qualified BaBy beat finale a gsl player The two zergs qualified was Monster beating Genius and Hyun beating Stork The 5 protoss qualifying was Trap, Jangbi, Parting, Yonghwa and paralyze. Paralyze was the only Kespa protoss that qualified by beating a non kespa protoss. Jangbi, Trap beat two other kespa players and so did Parting and Yonghwa. Terrans were still the ones who had most players qualify by beating GSL players in the last round | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 02 2012 02:43 Darneck wrote: Marineking qualified by beating Symbol, Keen by beating lucky, Hack by beating Seed then the other terrans all beat Kespa players in the last round and one of them being a Kespa player himself. The two zergs qualified was Monster beating Genius and Hyun beating Stork The 5 protoss qualifying was Trap, Jangbi, Parting, Yonghwa and paralyze. Paralyze was the only Kespa protoss that qualified by beating a non kespa protoss. Jangbi, Trap beat two other kespa players and so did Parting and Yonghwa. Terrans were still the ones who had most players qualify by beating GSL players in the last round Hack beat Hero not Seed, he also beat MMA! Seed got through :D :D :D. | ||
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On August 02 2012 02:46 ZAiNs wrote: Hack beat Hero not Seed, he also beat MMA! Seed got through :D :D :D. Are you possibly talking about WCS or is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2012/Qualifiers/Korea completely wrong? Or have I completely misunderstood how many qualifies and who those would be? It's the semi final stage I'm talking about either way that happened the 29th of July and 1st of August I'm majorly confused now either way, Hack did beat Hero as well yes but that was earlier Edit: Now when I'm looking through it again I'm pretty sure I'm correct and Seed did not get through. It's the 15 I mentioned + MVP | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On August 02 2012 02:02 -_- wrote: Creep has been an complete success for Blizzard. Newcomers, Lore enthusiasts, and hardcore players all love the idea of spreading and battling creep. Before the Queen change, creep denial was a matter of form for Terran in the early game. You simply built Hellions and parked them overnight. Now creep spread can get started early game, making it a factor in mid and late. Regarding Ravens, when I think about how Terrans respond to the suggestion of them I can't help but think about how I used feel about the Carrier, Mothership, and Warp Prism. Now, the Warp Prism was buffed, and the Mothership was indirectly buffed (neural nerf), but back in 2010 and early 2011 I was convinced all 3 were pointless units. Now, I realize that even without the buffs they all could have been used. Maybe the Raven needs a little tweak, but I'm confident T's will begin using it. I don't blame them for thinking they can't, though. I was in the exact same spot. You did not "simply build hellions and park them overnight". You had to constantly move them in and out to try and catch when and where the tumors were being placed, and micro constantly against queens when they came out to fend off your hellions long enough for a tumor to finish. Creep denial required just as much attention, if not more, than spreading creep. The better you got at it, the less often you needed to use scans to remove tumors. Even prior to the patch, good creep spread was far from unheard of. The better Zergs like DRG consistently turned the map purple, just not as fast as they do now. Considering we already knew a good Zerg could spread creep just fine, and also considering that we knew good Zergs were no longer getting owned by hellion runbys, we have to ask, why was the patch needed in the first place? You want to talk about something being a matter of form? How about 3 bases, 80 drones, and vision of half the map by minute 10? That's where TvZ is at right now. There's a reason DRG says that as long as he doesn't do something stupid, his opponent's level of play is irrelevant because he'll win anyway. That's not where we want any of the matchups to be, but that's where we're at with ZvT and ZvP. As for ravens, the reason Terrans roll their eyes at people who say we need to make more of them is simple. They're incredibly slow and easy to snipe, they require a lot of upgrades, HSM requires a ton of energy, and the casting range is 6 compared to the 9 (+radius) of fungal. Is that worth sacrificing double viking/medivac production and 200 gas per unit on? A complete gamble that any Zerg who's on top of their fungals should shut down with relative ease every time? I'm not going to sit here and tell you that ravens are total garbage, because I don't think that's true at all. PDD is highly useful and HSM would be amazing if you didn't have to basically suicide a raven to try and cast it. But some kind of reworking is needed if Blizzard wants us to start making lots of them. | ||
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
Yeah... really had no clue where your tried to come from there. Realistically all top koreans slay at micro and multi-tasking and they can excel at the specifics that their race does not limit as much as the others. | ||
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denlillemand
Denmark15 Posts
which i actually feel is the biggest indicator that it's a bad race,, noone even tries to play it . | ||
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