EPT
WCS Win Rates - Page 13
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chris5180
198 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:15 znow1 wrote: Thats a false statement to make, a couple of months ago terran were really overrepresented in Europe The people in this thread would have you believe that the game should only be balanced for the "highest level" but then turn around and defend the Queen change, which DRG himself described as being needless for his own play, as he'd already worked out how to defend Hellions without much difficulty. The Queen buff was undeniably aimed at something other than Code S level Zergs, because none of them were getting crushed by Hellion runbys. So, do you Zerg players actually want balance at the highest level, or only when it suits you? | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
Korean statistics look probably only worse. | ||
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znow1
54 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:17 Shiori wrote: The people in this thread would have you believe that the game should only be balanced for the "highest level" but then turn around and defend the Queen change, which DRG himself described as being needless for his own play, as he'd already worked out how to defend Hellions without much difficulty. The Queen buff was undeniably aimed at something other than Code S level Zergs, because none of them were getting crushed by Hellion runbys. So, do you Zerg players actually want balance at the highest level, or only when it suits you? Dont ask me, I´m terran. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:21 Aunvilgod wrote: Only korea is relevant. Everybody else just doen´t know how to play their race to the full potential and thus their data is irrelevant. Korean statistics look probably only worse. In EU and NA you see protoss and zergs dominating. Why is this? Because if you take a terran and a zerg/protoss, then the terran has it much harder then the other player. Every terran that is not a progamer suffers from this. Even the EU and NA terrans suffer from this. The korean terrans are seriously gods, nothing more to say. I always wondered how mkp would look with z (splitting banelings instead of 1aing them in a ball, even nestea does this). Foreign zergs and protoss players better hope that HOTS doesn't make terran viable lategame... | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:21 Aunvilgod wrote: Only korea is relevant. Everybody else just doen´t know how to play their race to the full potential and thus their data is irrelevant. Korean statistics look probably only worse. See, while I agree with this mentality, accepting it totally undermined the rationale for the Queen buff to begin with, because Korean Zergs were never the ones having problems with Hellion openers/runbys. It was only ever the foreigners. | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
Other thing zergs say "terran players still plays the same hellion openings instead of figuring something new out". But you dont understand that hellions are THE ONLY counter to mass ling+bane "allins". Ok lets imagine terrans will start using ravens. How do you think games will go? There is no more early or midgame. There is only boring +30min games where terran just camps with planetaries and has atleast 3 techlab starports and few with reactors. Terran has no tech switch capability of Zerg. And it takes 90 seconds with energy ugprade to get energy for HSM. I dont know about you guys, but i rather watch and play games like MMA vs Gumiho(bio vs mech tvt) than games where you sit 30mins doing nothing and one fight decides the game (mech vs mech tvt). | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:15 znow1 wrote: Thats a false statement to make, a couple of months ago terran were really overrepresented in Europe It's a bit more complicated than either under represented or over represented. What is true is that for patch 1.4.1, Terran had much fewer players in every league apart from Bronze and, curiously, Master league in Europe. In other words, Terran had far more players playing casually (I don't believe anyone in Bronze can be actually playing seriously), and an unusually high ratio of masters players to players in the lower leagues. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
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stfouri
Finland272 Posts
Ill go with zerg and protoss players, there are just too few relevant terrans in EU/NA/SEA. Terran also needs to learn to use ravens and HSM, it destroys infestors. Wait for TLPD and stop whining, I think terrans need 6months to figure things out. Zerg didnt receive any buffs and terran only got buffs and still zerg managed to figure out terran, why can't terrans do the same!!! | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
Also, the winning rates for Colombia can't be taken into account because only like four players that took part in them were in Masters. There were like 60% in Platinum or lower, that percent is probably higher... | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
What I do know is. After any major patch/change there is always a period for figuring things out. Some players were stubborn and chose to only whine, while other players tried to adapt and make changes to their play. Terran players (at least in Korea) seem to have started to figure out the things they can and can't do with the new changes and what to do and what not to do. Although the queen change seemed extreme, it seems to be balancing itself out. Also, given that winning %s were so skewed in the favor of Terran for a good part of 2 years. Terran players should chill out and take the few months of pain ;D | ||
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:09 Shiori wrote: I like how people blindly point to Korean Terrans doing well without considering the competition at all. Who is actually doing consistently great as a Terran against Zerg? Like, all the time against the highest level Zergs? I haven't seen anyone. MKP drops games to Idra now, Taeja has mostly been simply outclassing his opponents, etc. etc. Who exactly is crushing face as a Korean Terran on a regular basis (not some freak win once in awhile and discarding every game they lose). There is no blindly pointing to terran results, there is the simple fact that Korean terrans seemingly are doing fine in in every competition. In GSL, GSTL, MLG, WCG, WCS, OGS, TSL, IEM & IPL terrans are all well represented and are competitive in qualifiers. If you're asking who the terran is, who has the 70-80% winrate against zerg now? It's taeja. Oh, he doesn't count? Well, maybe then there aren't one. But tough titty, there were NEVER any zerg players who could put up those kind of numbers against terran. Never. Statistically, ZvT is DRGs worst match-up.. | ||
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:37 stfouri wrote: Oh I must resist my interwebs trolling skills, must resist. Ill go with zerg and protoss players, there are just too few relevant terrans in EU/NA/SEA. Terran also needs to learn to use ravens and HSM, it destroys infestors. Wait for TLPD and stop whining, I think terrans need 6months to figure things out. Zerg didnt receive any buffs and terran only got buffs and still zerg managed to figure out terran, why can't terrans do the same!!! obviously didn't resist hard enough | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
You cant balance game on all levels when one race scales so much better with players skill then others 2. Blizzard probably understands this based on their warhound design lol.... Its the shame they dont take aproach of giving Z/P more tools for players to shine instead of dumbing down Terran. On August 01 2012 18:19 Decendos wrote: so basically there were 45 of 216 player in top 8 which is about 21% of all players and they won 18%. now thats a huge imbalance...NOT. just wait for the TLPD stats with the best players in it and not some random stats which even say 20% of the players won 20%. Problem is why there were only 21% in Top8 | ||
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:44 m0ck wrote: There is no blindly pointing to terran results, there is the simple fact that Korean terrans seemingly are doing fine in in every competition. In GSL, GSTL, MLG, WCG, WCS, OGS, TSL, IEM & IPL terrans are all well represented and are competitive in qualifiers. If you're asking who the terran is, who has the 70-80% winrate against zerg now? It's taeja. Oh, he doesn't count? Well, maybe then there aren't one. But tough titty, there were NEVER any zerg players who could put up those kind of numbers against terran. Never. Statistically, ZvT is DRGs worst match-up.. Yea, because FruitDealer didn't go 11-2 vs T in GSL season 1, Nestea didn't go 10-3 vs T in GSL season 2, Symbol until recently was over 70% win vs T, hes at a measly 69% now. edit: not to mention, both FruitDealer and Nestea did this when T was clearly OP. How did they do this? they simply had the best understanding of how to play the game in comparison to everyone else. Right now, Taeja is stomping face simply because he gets it. There is something he see when he looks at the screen that everyone else is missing. His success has nothing to do with what race his plays, it's simply Taeja is an amazing player. | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On August 01 2012 21:02 NEEDZMOAR wrote: I feel like this should be added to OP to prevent posters from repeating themselves. It should not since its not true unless overall Terran representaion was about 20% which does not seems to be true based on numbers above. | ||
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On August 01 2012 23:44 m0ck wrote: There is no blindly pointing to terran results, there is the simple fact that Korean terrans seemingly are doing fine in in every competition. In GSL, GSTL, MLG, WCG, WCS, OGS, TSL, IEM & IPL terrans are all well represented and are competitive in qualifiers. If you're asking who the terran is, who has the 70-80% winrate against zerg now? It's taeja. Oh, he doesn't count? Well, maybe then there aren't one. But tough titty, there were NEVER any zerg players who could put up those kind of numbers against terran. Never. Statistically, ZvT is DRGs worst match-up.. Well represented ( terran is not well represented at all, but whatever ) =/= balanced. The problem is that right now the Zerg has the upper hands all games long. If you try to macro you will lose because terran macro is inferior to zerg macro ( it's a FACT ), if you try to go for early harass you will either kill a few drones ( with few I mean less than 5 ) or even none. Terran also isn't flexible and can't handle the other races techswitches fast enough. The game concept is flawed and right now Zerg is in fact overpowered ( OMG I said it ), it's starting to get really boring to watch and to play. Now, to all the people who says that Terran not being well represented doesn't show a really bad balance situation, let's go back when the game was released ( first GSL ). The ladder was FULL of terran, the pros were almost all terran but a zerg still managed to win the GSL. Today the ladder is FULL of zerg, the pros are almost all protoss or zerg ( there aren't many good terran players ) and Terran players aren't winning the most prestigious SC2 tournament on the planet. Back then everyone agreed that T was OP ( and it got nerfed ), but today we see Zerg players say that the game is fine as it is, well let me tell you something: You are all hypocrites. Enjoy your game where both the players only macro for 50 minutes without doing anything else. | ||
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