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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
You dudes need to chill out
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On August 06 2012 15:55 Belisarius wrote:
This is pretty awesome.
I feel like the GSTL should be excluded, though. Partly because it's bo1 but mostly because it's almost guaranteed that the WC will lose at some point if he gets fielded, and then the title bounces around for the rest of the match.
I thought that was the point
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On August 06 2012 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 06 2012 15:10 Dodgin wrote:
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win. You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic.
Why should it be about the importance to the individual? If he feels like a world champion does that make him one?  Both how the individual feels about the tournament, and how the community feels, are important in gauging the importance of the tournament. Since losing the title "World Champion" is purely symbolic (And fun) then the grandeur of the event should help define whether or not a world champion has been defeated.
And if Nerchio loses at IEM, I'm almost 100% positive that the community and Nerchio himself will care more about his defeat at TSL4.
Edit
On August 06 2012 15:55 lichter wrote:
You dudes need to chill out
It's a fun argument
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On August 06 2012 15:59 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 06 2012 15:10 Dodgin wrote:
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win. You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic. Why should it be about the importance to the individual? If he feels like a world champion does that make him one? Both how the individual feels about the tournament, and how the community feels, are important in gauging the importance of the tournament. Since losing the title "World Champion" is purely symbolic (And fun) then the grandeur of the event should help define whether or not a world champion has been defeated. And if Nerchio loses at IEM, I'm almost 100% positive that the community and Nerchio himself will care more about his defeat at TSL4. Edit It's a fun argument
Why? Because YOU said it.
Yes, TSL is still more important to him.
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If we count TSL 4 then we're going to have to look through and count TSL 3. Where do we draw the line? Is TSL > IPL 1/2? Are we going to use the air date instead of the games played date? Stick to LAN events broadcasted live. It's the best way.
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On August 06 2012 16:03 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:59 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 06 2012 15:10 Dodgin wrote:
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win. You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic. Why should it be about the importance to the individual? If he feels like a world champion does that make him one? Both how the individual feels about the tournament, and how the community feels, are important in gauging the importance of the tournament. Since losing the title "World Champion" is purely symbolic (And fun) then the grandeur of the event should help define whether or not a world champion has been defeated. And if Nerchio loses at IEM, I'm almost 100% positive that the community and Nerchio himself will care more about his defeat at TSL4. Edit On August 06 2012 15:55 lichter wrote:
You dudes need to chill out It's a fun argument Why? Because YOU said it.
Stating that the TSL win is more important to Thorzain is another way of saying that TSL is important. TSL is important = it should be included.
The importance of TSL can be demonstrated by how important the players feel about it and how important the community thinks it is. They are interchangeable and one does not trump the other.
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On August 06 2012 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 06 2012 15:10 Dodgin wrote:
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win. You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic.
Okay, I misread that last post (I somehow read "to" as "of"). Bleh. Let me rewind.
We were originally talking about TSL's importance in relation to MLGs and Dreamhacks, so that's what I was going back to.
Thorzain said the TSL3 win was the most important to him. And you said (or he said as well, I don't actually remember) that it was because it was his first big win.
However, Naama winning Dreamhack was also a famous example of a first big win that didn't have anywhere near the same impact on a player's general status. Ret winning Assembly was another example from around that time.
So at the end of the day, regardless of why Thorzain thinks it's the most important win for him personally, it appears that it was a lot more than just his first breakout win in the sense that it did a lot more for him as player by elevating him to the status much greater than the status of some notable LAN winners up until that point.
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Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:59 McFeser wrote:It's a fun argument
I mean with all the fucks
I am still disappointed no one has gotten around to organizing the championship belt thing yet
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On August 06 2012 16:13 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:59 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:55 lichter wrote:
You dudes need to chill out It's a fun argument I mean with all the fucks I am still disappointed no one has gotten around to organizing the championship belt thing yet
Arguments aren't fun if there is no fucking.
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On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways.
So no champion at all?
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On August 06 2012 16:11 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:03 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:59 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote:On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic. Why should it be about the importance to the individual? If he feels like a world champion does that make him one? Both how the individual feels about the tournament, and how the community feels, are important in gauging the importance of the tournament. Since losing the title "World Champion" is purely symbolic (And fun) then the grandeur of the event should help define whether or not a world champion has been defeated. And if Nerchio loses at IEM, I'm almost 100% positive that the community and Nerchio himself will care more about his defeat at TSL4. Edit On August 06 2012 15:55 lichter wrote:
You dudes need to chill out It's a fun argument Why? Because YOU said it. Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Stating that the TSL win is more important to Thorzain is another way of saying that TSL is important. TSL is important = it should be included. The importance of TSL can be demonstrated by how important the players feel about it and how important the community thinks it is. They are interchangeable and one does not trump the other.
I never would have made my original point if you didnt post "to him" though. No one is denying that TSL isn't important. Of course it is. But it does have the catch of being an online tournament featuring a TON of cross server play. Its the same reason we don't include NASL regular season but do include the "offline" finals.
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There are people arguing that TSL events is more prestigious than MLG/IPL/IEM/etc LAN events???
I mean seriously???
The reason why people hold TSL in high regard because it held once a year and it also has TL flag on it .
Other than that, it is just an online event with the exception of the finals being LAN.
LAN event>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Online event.
Why? Cross-server play and latency issues.Nuff said.
Player performance is affected if there is lag involved.
LAN events keep this issues to a minimum.
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It should just be kept to LAN games. Otherwise it is too hard to draw the line of exclusion for some online games. I also think that Bo1's should not be included but am fine if they are. It's all a bit of fun.
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Leagues played on cross-server (TSL, NASL, etc) should not count, so sorry for darkforce :[
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On August 06 2012 16:22 FakeDeath wrote:
There are people arguing that TSL events is more prestigious than MLG/IPL/IEM/etc LAN events???
I mean seriously???
The reason why people hold TSL in high regard because it held once a year and it also has TL flag on it .
Other than that, it is just an online event with the exception of the finals being LAN.
LAN event>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Online event.
Why? Cross-server play and latency issues.Nuff said.
Player performance is affected if there is lag involved.
LAN events keep this issues to a minimum.
If in the same region, then online games might be better quality - probably some people dont play to their best in a booth environment due to nerves
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The time you have to prepare for a match should be important. 2 Weeks preparation for a certain opponent? That's when people play their best.
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On August 06 2012 12:06 Surrealistic wrote:Edit: ^ SC2 online game no? Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 12:01 opterown wrote:Poll: Does TSL4 count or not?Yes - Darkforce is the world champ! (264) 60% No - Nerchio will defend his title at IEM! (179) 40% 443 total votes Your vote: Does TSL4 count or not? (Vote): Yes - Darkforce is the world champ!
(Vote): No - Nerchio will defend his title at IEM!
That poll is stupid. You need to have certain rules and to procure those rules there must be reasonable discussion. What's going to probably happen here is that there's a lot more Nerchio fans than there are Darkforce fans.
If you are not a DF fan yet, he will NP you.
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EPT
