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On August 06 2012 16:50 Nekovivie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:22 FakeDeath wrote:
There are people arguing that TSL events is more prestigious than MLG/IPL/IEM/etc LAN events???
I mean seriously???
The reason why people hold TSL in high regard because it held once a year and it also has TL flag on it .
Other than that, it is just an online event with the exception of the finals being LAN.
LAN event>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Online event.
Why? Cross-server play and latency issues.Nuff said.
Player performance is affected if there is lag involved.
LAN events keep this issues to a minimum. If in the same region, then online games might be better quality - probably some people dont play to their best in a booth environment due to nerves
Same region maybe but all pro players prefer to play on LAN.
Lag is inevitable in cross-server play.The lag is horrendous if you ever play on cross-server with other people.
If a player performance is affected by external factors that they can't control, then that is bad .
Like i said LAN keep all of these issues to a minimum.
Online games being better quality??Really?
I think LAN events are better especially koreans are pitted against each other.
Nerves issues are the player's own internal problems.They just have to learn how to deal with it.
After they got over their nerves,they will all prefer to play LAN.
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While I would like to see DF as UWC, I think one should not change the rules. Let only premium offline events count, because this title was defined as such.
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On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways.
This basically. I would not mind DarkForce holding the title at all, but you got to have some consistency with where you pull your results from otherwise the whole thing becomes invalidated. That is of course barring some insanely improbable outlier circumstance in which none of the previous results would be affected by suddenly including online results, which is kind of impossible if you have foreigners (or players like Sleep for that matter) anywhere on the list because they tend to play in online cups.
=/
Just my 2 cents.
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well, tsl is the only major online tournament there really is and it still has an offline part. i would still count it in as such. especially because other online tournaments dont have offline finals.
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On August 06 2012 17:15 Gorg wrote:
well, tsl is the only major online tournament there really is and it still has an offline part. i would still count it in as such. especially because other online tournaments dont have offline finals.
Iron Squid. Also wouldn't the NASL fit in this category as well?
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It is quite retarded to count in TSL. It is just another online tournament... Iron Squid had similar viewership, similar prize pool and a lot better/stronger player pool. Why Iron Squid isnt included then? What about IPL1, IPL2, NASL then?
#ninja edit: no online tournaments! if they have offline finals, we can count in finals then..
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On August 06 2012 17:28 LennoxPM wrote:
It is quite retarded to count in TSL. It is just another online tournament... Iron Squid had similar viewership, similar prize pool and a lot better/stronger player pool. Why Iron Squid isnt included then? What about IPL1, IPL2, NASL then?
#ninja edit: no online tournaments! if they have offline finals, we can count in finals then..
TSL is the largest online cup. In saying that, it has a pedigree going back to BW. Back in BW it was THE tournament. and it is THE tournament in sc2. So it should be counted.
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Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA.
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On August 06 2012 17:34 LennoxPM wrote:
Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA.
Winning a TSL is more important to players then winning something like Iron squid, because TSL goes back to the BW days, when BW players would spend months at a time to get a high enough ranking to qualify for TSL1 and TSL2. If you didn't play BW then I think you should go back and watch the TSL1 and 2 and learn about BW and the TSL origins before calling it just another tournament.
TSL was The tournament. Sort of like the foreigner OSL, but online. TSL has a pedigree, many other tournament don't. Thats is why it is so important, and why it should be included.
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On August 06 2012 17:28 LennoxPM wrote:
It is quite retarded to count in TSL. It is just another online tournament... Iron Squid had similar viewership, similar prize pool and a lot better/stronger player pool. Why Iron Squid isnt included then? What about IPL1, IPL2, NASL then?
#ninja edit: no online tournaments! if they have offline finals, we can count in finals then..
You're quite retarded. TSL is the SC2 tournament.
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On August 06 2012 17:40 BadBinky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:28 LennoxPM wrote:
It is quite retarded to count in TSL. It is just another online tournament... Iron Squid had similar viewership, similar prize pool and a lot better/stronger player pool. Why Iron Squid isnt included then? What about IPL1, IPL2, NASL then?
#ninja edit: no online tournaments! if they have offline finals, we can count in finals then.. You're quite retarded. TSL is the SC2 tournament.
I think you're overstating its importance... it can't be THE SC2 tournament when many of the big names (MVP, Stephano, Idra, etc.) don't even really bother to try and qualify... but that's besides the point.
The point is, it's online. And if you justify its inclusion by saying it's a major tournament... why not Iron Squid? Or IPL 1/2? etc. etc. - very slippery slope. Need hard data (offline ONLY) to award this champion.
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On August 06 2012 16:18 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways. So no champion at all?
Haha, soo funny. There is no Offline, nor is there LAN. But if you need to have the concept explained to you, I think there's a SC2 newbies post somewhere that could help.
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If people are serious about making an actual belt then it makes far more sense to abide by the current rules; OFFLINE EVENTS ONLY.
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You can't just change the rules otherwise this whole thing is inaccurate and the concept of it becomes a little less awesome.
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On August 06 2012 17:40 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:34 LennoxPM wrote:
Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA. Winning a TSL is more important to players then winning something like Iron squid, because TSL goes back to the BW days, when BW players would spend months at a time to get a high enough ranking to qualify for TSL1 and TSL2. If you didn't play BW then I think you should go back and watch the TSL1 and 2 and learn about BW and the TSL origins before calling it just another tournament. TSL was The tournament. Sort of like the foreigner OSL, but online. TSL has a pedigree, many other tournament don't. Thats is why it is so important, and why it should be included.
I see only one argument from you. It WAS big back in BW days. But it IS not that big any more.
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I've been waiting for a thread like this to pop up for a long time. Awesome stuff.
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On August 06 2012 17:56 LennoxPM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 06 2012 17:34 LennoxPM wrote:
Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA. Winning a TSL is more important to players then winning something like Iron squid, because TSL goes back to the BW days, when BW players would spend months at a time to get a high enough ranking to qualify for TSL1 and TSL2. If you didn't play BW then I think you should go back and watch the TSL1 and 2 and learn about BW and the TSL origins before calling it just another tournament. TSL was The tournament. Sort of like the foreigner OSL, but online. TSL has a pedigree, many other tournament don't. Thats is why it is so important, and why it should be included. I see only one argument from you. It WAS big back in BW days. But it IS not that big any more.
ROFL
it is still big. Just because you don't think it is important, doesn't mean it isn't one of the most important tournaments. IT is on par with IPL, NASL, GSL.
That is the cold truth of the matter. Just because you don't care about TSL's pedigree, doesn't mean it isn't there.
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if tsl4 counts, then tsl3 counts too, and you have to go back and redo the whole thing
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On August 06 2012 17:46 Lavit2099 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:18 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways. So no champion at all? Haha, soo funny. There is no Offline, nor is there LAN. But if you need to have the concept explained to you, I think there's a SC2 newbies post somewhere that could help.
If it has to be played online anyways it doesnt matter wether the people sit next to each other or a some miles away.
But if you need to get the concept explained to you, I'm sure you'll find help somewhere else.
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On August 06 2012 18:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:46 Lavit2099 wrote:On August 06 2012 16:18 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways. So no champion at all? Haha, soo funny. There is no Offline, nor is there LAN. But if you need to have the concept explained to you, I think there's a SC2 newbies post somewhere that could help. If it has to be played online anyways it doesnt matter wether the people sit next to each other or a some miles away. But if you need to get the concept explained to you, I'm sure you'll find help somewhere else.
This is also an important point to be made. Starcraft 2 "LAN" events are only LAN events in the cultural sense, but not in the gameplay sense.
Let's also not forget how much live events struggled with latency throughout 2010 and 2011. MLG had terrible issues with venue internet before Sundance rolled in the fabled satellite trucks. IPL3 had notoriously bad lag throughout the event as well. So if perfect conditions are a requirement to be included in this, then all those events should be discarded as well.
Finally, I feel that a lot of people need a crash course in how internet works. The latency of an SC2 "LAN" event depends almost exclusively on the location that the LAN is organized in. A live event on the US East Coast or most of Canada actually has worse latency than two players playing ladder on the West Coast, where the Battle.net servers are. The second issue that live events have to deal with is the quality and stability of connection at the venue - and a lot of events had trouble with that and it did impact gameplay as much as cross region play does (lag "spikes" are potentially much worse for players than a somewhat higher but stable latency).
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EPT
