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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? I'm just repeating what Thorzain said himself in an interview, not trying to speak for him. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? And yet most people not Swedish and not from his home town will forget about it over time, if they already didn't. Maybe Thorzain enjoyed the DH win more due to the atmosphere and the crowd, but that win did nothing for him in comparison to what TSL3 did. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:24 Dodgin wrote: DRG and Marineking aren't even going to the Summer Championship and they weren't at the Summer Arena though. And even if they are " just as good " I don't get as excited because they are different players, Mvp and MMA are legends in Starcraft 2 so I want to see them play at the " biggest NA event " And neither are as good as they were when they attended past MLG's. Yet DRG was at MLG right when he won his GSL. MKP was playing some of the best Terran in the world when he was at MLG. Taeja is possibly the best player in the world right now and just won the Arena. MLG's are far more stacked this year as more than 4 koreans get paid trips. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:27 jmbthirteen wrote: And neither are as good as they were when they attended past MLG's. Yet DRG was at MLG right when he won his GSL. MKP was playing some of the best Terran in the world when he was at MLG. Taeja is possibly the best player in the world right now and just won the Arena. MLG's are far more stacked this year as more than 4 koreans get paid trips. I don't think you're reading what I'm saying ~_~ I don't care about that I just want to see them play because I like to watch them. I don't get as excited for Taeja as I do for Mvp or MMA no matter how good he is. It's just my opinion that MLG's last year were more exciting. Any tournament is just not the same without the legendary players, the ones who have been around for the longest and won the most money and have won the most tournaments. Look at all the people complaining about lack of star power in TSL4, because we're missing all the most popular and successful players in the history of starcraft 2. | ||
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Entirety
1423 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:21 McFeser wrote: But this isn't random logic. TSL is the second oldest star league that is still running. This WAS the tournament to win if you were a foreigner in Broodwar and given the preparation time players are given I think we can drop the disadvantage that online/cross server tournaments create. And top players did try to qualify - and failed. And I can guarantee you Nerchio cares more about winning a series in TSL4 then to get knocked out of IEM. Given his emotional reaction to his lost, and given how players talk about how much it would mean to them to win a TSL, it's pretty apparent that the TSL isn't some random online tournament. It's simply on a different level when you look at Starwars, random online cups, and (I know many will disagree) MLG/NASL/IPL. That's just not true... 1. WCG was the tournament to win, not TSL. 2. It doesn't matter whether or not Nerchio cares more about TSL or IEM. The fact is LANs require a different skill set. Why did it take TaeJa so long to win major titles when we had won back to back ESV Weeklies for God knows how long? Why are most practice partners known as ladder monsters or insanely good in practice, yet they never get the results to back it up? Why were people like HerO dealing with nerve issues and unable to perform their best? Why did MarineKing choke many times in the GSTL and GSL finals? Why did Bomber lose that series versus ByuN waay back when? (Actually, why does Bomber lose any series?) Don't pretend like playing an online tournament is anything like performing at a LAN. Mvp is probably not the most skilled player in the world, but he was/is the best because he was able to perform in LANs. Do we consider MarineKing a deity for holding multiple accounts at the top of Korean GM? No, instead we tend to remember his MLG wins, or his GSL losses. Do we consider TaeJa to be a better player than Mvp? Until recently, the answer was no! ESV Weekly is his playground, but getting it together in the GSL booth was entirely different. When did we start calling TaeJa a better player than Mvp? Let me give you a hint: it's when he demolished MLG Summer Arena and ASUS ROG to back up his online results. | ||
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero? Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:31 McFeser wrote: Yes, TSL is still more important to him. Winning TSL3 for him is like marrying your highschool sweetheart. Winning Dreamhack is the honeymoon afterwards. the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote: the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Now you're just making stuff up, you don't know that. | ||
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marcelluspye
United States155 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:25 jmbthirteen wrote: yet players like Huk would travel around the world playing jetlagged, but refuse to play cross server because its bad. why do you think so many players say cross server doesn't matter? Why did so many Koreans lose in TSL3? Its not because Goody is better than Nestea. Its because cross server play sucks. Then there are players like Naniwa and Thorzain who will play regularly in online events, but don't travel as much at all. Nestea lost to Goody for the similar reasons Taeja nearly lost to Bischu and for the same reason MMA lost to Goody at a live event. Complacency, cockiness, and a metric fuckton of bad decisions - none of which were influenced by latency. | ||
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:27 Talin wrote: And yet most people not Swedish and not from his home town will forget about it over time, if they already didn't. Maybe Thorzain enjoyed the DH win more due to the atmosphere and the crowd, but that win did nothing for him in comparison to what TSL3 did. I agree with this post, TSL 3 MADE thorzain. | ||
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fer
Canada375 Posts
Take a look at how Taeja played his series vs Bischu to see how much importance Taeja puts in TSL. Take a look at the qualifiers to count how many Korean superstars skipped this online tournament entirely. It's fine if you like to think TSL > all other online tournaments, and even the MLGs, Dreamhacks, etc. But if you want to include TSL, you have to get rid of the double standard and include other online tournaments as well. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:35 jmbthirteen wrote: the thing is, its not because it was TSL. Its because it was his first big win. If he won Dreamhack before he won TSL, then Dreamhack would be more important to him. Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. On August 06 2012 15:31 Entirety wrote: That's just not true... 1. WCG was the tournament to win, not TSL. That isn't true at all. TSL and in particular TSL2 were far more influential and prestigious than regional WCGs or getting 4th place at WCG finals. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:36 Talin wrote: Then there are players like Naniwa and Thorzain who will play regularly in online events, but don't travel as much at all. Nestea lost to Goody for the similar reasons Taeja nearly lost to Bischu and for the same reason MMA lost to Goody at a live event. Complacency, cockiness, and a metric fuckton of bad decisions - none of which were influenced by latency. Bull shit. You don't think latency had a huge effect on those TSL3 games? Give me a fucking break dude. Naniwa doesn't travel as much so he can focus on GSL. Oh and how many cross server events has he played since going to Korea? Barely any. Same with Thorzain. Both of their TSL4 games were played from Europe too. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:40 Talin wrote: Naama also won Dreamhack and it was his first big win. By your logic, Naama would have been a bigger name than Thorzain after his TSL3 win. This was obviously not the case. To add more to the comparison: - Neither player had a strong public presence and personality that would skew their reputations beyond their actual Starcraft performance and results. - Neither player had any results to speak of before or quite a while after the events they won. No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:39 fer wrote: Lol people still trying to delude themselves that TSL matters more than offline events, because it carries the Teamliquid nametag. Take a look at how Taeja played his series vs Bischu to see how much importance Taeja puts in TSL. Take a look at the qualifiers to count how many Korean superstars skipped this online tournament entirely. It's fine if you like to think TSL > all other online tournaments, and even the MLGs, Dreamhacks, etc. But if you want to include TSL, you have to get rid of the double standard and include other online tournaments as well. I would include other online tournaments if they had a similar format to TSL., the format is what makes me think it should count. It's not a one day marathon It's a long running event with an offline finals. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:36 Dodgin wrote: Now you're just making stuff up, you don't know that. not really. Here watch this, go to the 35 minute mark: http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/316162945 He talks about how his most important victory was in a clan war in WC3. Why is that? Because it was his FIRST big win. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:44 jmbthirteen wrote: No, thats not what my logic is at all. I never once said anything about being a bigger name. We are talking about importance to Thorzain. Has nothing to do with popularity. Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 06 2012 15:48 Talin wrote: Fine, was Naama more "important" than Thorzain then? -_- It's the same thing, no matter what metrics you use, Naama's Dreamhack win was completely forgettable in comparison to Thorzain's TSL3 win. What the fuck are you talking about? its about importance to the individual, not to the community. You are changing the whole fucking topic. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6232 Posts
I feel like the GSTL should be excluded, though. Partly because it's bo1 but mostly because it's almost guaranteed that the WC will lose at some point if he gets fielded, and then the title bounces around for the rest of the match. | ||
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